NationStates Jolt Archive

Pretty much just because they're fucking nuts.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/animalrights/story/0,11917,1514393,00.html

Sandra Laville and Duncan Campbell
Saturday June 25, 2005
The Guardian

Animal rights activists have unleashed a new arson campaign in the run-up to the introduction of a law next month which could see them jailed for five years for economic sabotage.

Extremists are returning to the tactics of several years ago, using firebombs to attack anyone they perceive as having links to Huntingdon Life Sciences, the Cambridgeshire-based research laboratory.

A senior figure within the Animal Liberation Front told the Guardian that activists would not rest until they had shut down HLS. Speaking from prison, Keith Mann, who promotes arson as the best form of attack, said the government's clampdown on protesters meant "all that is left to them is extremism".

In a telephone call from Winchester prison, where he is serving six months for contempt of court, Mann said the campaign against HLS was number one for activists.

"We believe when Huntingdon goes the industry will start to crumble."

But an increasingly indiscriminate campaign has recently hit those who have no links to HLS or animal testing. An incendiary device was placed under a car belonging to a truck driver and his wife in Leicestershire last week. The firebomb, which did not go off, was intended to target a solicitor who worked for the pharmaceutical giant Fisons. The lawyer had moved from the property 18 months earlier.

In another case, the finance director of a small brokers firm, Canaccord Capital, was in hiding yesterday after being firebombed by the ALF at his home in Bracknell, Berkshire.

Michael Kendall, his wife and two young daughters were asleep when the incendiary device exploded under his car, which was in the garage.

A neighbour said: "It was incredible. It was about 11.30 at night and suddenly there were flames coming out of the car. We heard the alarm go off and ran out to see what was going on. We saw Mr Kendall there, trying to put out the flames.

"Then a tyre exploded, making a huge banging noise. You could feel the heat coming off the fire and by then a small crowd of us watched."

The attack on May 26 was claimed by the ALF two days ago on a website posting which read: "A new era has dawned for those who fund the abusers and raise funds for them to murder animals with. You too are on the hit list: you have been warned. If you support or raise funds for any company connected with Huntingdon Life Sciences we will track you down, come for you and destroy your property with fire."

Members of Shac, Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty, defended the action yesterday, saying the brokers had raised £10m for Phytopharm, which was a customer of HLS.

But directors at Canaccord were stunned by the attack on a family man who has no links to animal testing. They swiftly announced they would cut ties with Phytopharm.

A source in the firm said Mr Kendall was shocked to discover he was a target of extremists and was keeping a low profile.

Dr Richard Dixey, director of Phytopharm, which researches drugs for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases, told the Guardian the drugs company no longer had any connections with HLS.

"They say we are a major client at Huntingdon, but we have no studies at Huntingdon whatsoever any more," he said.

"I have never met Mr Kendall. He is a family man, with young kids. The whole thing is outrageous.

"This is like dealing with the mafia. What are these people trying to achieve? What is the point of doing this? They have gone too far and they are morally bankrupt. The idea that you should stop medical research because of the objections of a small group of ill informed people is outrageous."

Police are hoping that a new law against economic sabotage to be introduced next month as part of the Serious Organised Crime and Disorder Act, will help them crack down on the campaign of firebombing. Extremists can be jailed for up to five years for inflicting economic damage on medical research companies.

"These are extremely serious crimes and are being investigated," said Superintendent Steve Pearl, head of the national extremism tactical coordination unit (Nectu).

In Newtown Linford, Leicestershire, Andy Johnson and his wife Carmel, who were targeted with a firebomb which failed to go off last week, appealed for the extremists to leave them alone. Mr Johnson, who returned home to find a home-made bomb in his car port, said he had also had car tyres slashed and ALF graffiti daubed over their garage. His "crime" was that he had bought his cottage 18 months ago from a lawyer who works for Fisons.

"It's nothing to do with us," he said. "We have no links with Fisons. The ALF has just seen the previous owner's name connected to our address.

"We want them to know we have nothing to do with animal testing and aren't the people they want."

It's the sort of thing that makes calls of 'extremism' on NS pale to fish-belly white by comparison.

They need better research.

Bloody hell. The people responsible for these attacks should be locked up for attempted murder. I'm surprised they haven't killed anyone yet, but from the sounds of that article its only a matter of time until they do.

I love animals as much as the next person but there is no excuse for this.

"When a man wants to murder a tiger he calls it sport; when the tiger wants to murder him he calls it ferocity." -- George Bernard Shaw

The fact is that humans cannot be controlled unless they sense fear. ALF is taking that path.

The ALF are a disgrace. We should arrest them all.

Just a note, I hate animal testing with a passion, but I still think these guys are... yeah, F*cking nuts.

I say good on them.
They need much better research before they go nearly killing innocent people, but those motherfuckers involved with animal testing and factory farming should be killed.

I know it's extreme, and I'm definately not a violent person ordinarily, but those people make my blood boil. More so even than SUV/4WD drivers, even though they are responsible for the death of more humans and animals in the long term, it's not as immediate or deliberate.

How can you defend them? They firebombed the cottage of a guy who bought it from a guy who once donated money to a company which once funded HLS. Thats the most indirect attack I've ever heard of.

I also believe that animal testing shouldn't be allowed in the case of cosmetics, but is necessary for testing new pills or drugs. But even so, this is just ridiculous. Five years isn't enough for these people. They should be arrested under the terrorism act. Attacking innocent people is terrorism, therefore they should be arrested under it.

These people are terrorist in my book. this goes to show going to far from the middle either way can be a real bad deal for everyone else.

I like animals as much as anyone else, excluding those who don't like animals, but i still see it as necessary to test on them.

Just don't release the monkeys who have been watching all those gruesome videos of violence and hatred... That'd be kinda bad for the island's population!

ALF doesn't care about people.

If memory serves, ALF has been listed as a domestic terrorist group by the FBI. I wonder why the organization hasn't been shut down by the so-called Patriot act.

Methinks that there is insufficient political mileage to be gotten by disbanding the organization and arresting the members.

Consider this:
You are born, torn away from your mother and put in a cage. In this cage you are given shit food so you don't develop properly, are not attended to or given any love or care. You are transported here and there, kept in storage, for a few years until you are taken to an animal testing lab. You are a dog.
Your life is best described as absolute shit until finally some scientists decide it is for the good of the human race to test something on you.
You are put in a glass box, which is divided by a wall. You are suddenly electrocuted, the floor is live. You yelp and jump over the divider, on the other side the floor isn't live... but then it is, so you jump back over again. Each side is alternately live, as you jump over the divider. You might have a few seconds where you are not being electrocuted through the floor, but when you are it is the worst pain (you, the reader, have probably touched an electric fence or two in your lifetimes, not pleasent, yeah?). You find the divider is getting higher and higher, forcing you to jump higher each time. You've probably never been outside your cold, dark cage in your life, so this excerise is hard for you.
At some point, you are unable to jump over the divider, it's simply too high.
You, in terrible pain, try to attack the glass around you, desperately trying to make the pain stop. After about 5 minutes of this incredible pain, you simply lie on your back, urinating and defocating, whimpering, salivating, so absolutely consumed with pain and unable to black out (it's been designed so you don't lose conciousness) until your heart fails after about half an hour of it.

This is an experiment testing for "learned helplessness" and was repeated countless times over 2 decades. It was some stupid experiment that was supposed to tell us something about depression in humans. The result?
FUCKING NOTHING! The results couldn't be extrapolated to humans, nothing that was recorded in the experiment has ever been of any use to us, and never will be.
This is just one example of animal testing, there are so many other experiments with cosmetics, household cleaners, drugs, etc, all resulting in the same conclusion: "but this is in animals, we cannot reliably extrapolate this to humans"
With no exception, the "results" from products/drugs being tested on animals has nothing to do with how those products will react and work for humans. There is no way animal testing benifits humans in any form, and this should be reason enough to discontinue it. Add to that the immense pain and suffering encounted by the animals used in these experiments and it's incredible that some sadistic fucks still think it necessary to test shit on animals.
They're fucked in the head, and contrary to my normal pacifistic, anti-captial punishment ideals, they should be burnt at the stake.

Don't freak out on us man.

Mabye Huntingdon Life Sciences should offer to stop animal testing and in exchange have ALF members take their place.
I dont like animal testing but killing humans does'nt gain you points with humans

snip

That really is sad, I,ve seen some media on equally horrific studies and It would be nice if there were an alternative, but the truth is that society does'nt care enough because they dont see these experiments. Mabye if ALF distrubuted more media instead of burning buildings they could do more.

Sosato, I assume you are a very vocal member of ALF? Or perhaps a staunch supporter of them?

From a moral standpoint, the ALF is no different from say, the Abu Sayaff, the ETA or any Muslim run terror organization. They are groups who believe so strongly in the idea that their cause is correct, any measures are acceptable for their goals to be reached. Whether this comes in propoganda, misinformation, or as so often favored, direct violence, it is all the same.

So consider this:

You are an accountant in your mid 20s. You're happily married and just moved into your dream home. Your job keeps you somewhat above middle class and things are looking good. One day, just like any other, you wake up, about to go to work. You kiss your wife good morning, change, have breakfast and prepare to earn your monthly paycheck. Sitting in your car, you turn the keys.

Suddenly, there is a massive explosion. Your car is sent hurtling through the roof of the garage from the sheer force, crushing it against the ceiling. Your body is burnt and butchered, smashed by the overpressure effect, the smell of burnt you filling your nostrils and a terrible heat washing over you.

You struggle, you scream, anything to end the pain. But it doesn't. In your pain filled vision, you can make out the flames licking out over the hood of the car, creeping ever closer. Thick black smoke chokes you and it is only a matter of which kills you, asphyxiation or burns. You command yourself to move, to save yourself, but the muscles have been seared to the point of uselessness. The flames come in closer, giving you a terrible glimpse of your final fate.

And this is what ALF would do to not only the people they directly aim against, but those without direct connections, those without an idea that they have done anything to make themselves targets. They are your innocent bystanders, the wrong targets, the unaware.

And ALF doesn't care. All they know is violence to achieve their goals, violence to say that their way is right. The bodies will pile higher, the blood will flow, staining entire cities red. They will give persecution, violence and death. All to create the fear that they want to force the hands of others. And even then, will they stop if they win? Surely not, for those that have tasted the power that fear gives them over their fellow brethren will not give it up. They will persist.

This is the ALF you are advocating Sosato. This is the ALF that you want. The ALF that would sieze people in your very own words, to subject them to public burning. The ALF who you would make a group of terror with as much fear behind them as did the Spanish Inquisition.

Non Aligned States : "Animal Liberation Front Guidelines
1. To liberate animals from places of abuse, i.e. fur farms, laboratories, factory farms, etc. and place them in good homes where they may live out their natural lives free from suffering.
2. To inflict economic damage to those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals.
3. To reveal the horror and atrocities committed against animals behind locked doors by performing nonviolent direct actions and liberations.
4. To take all necessary precautions against hurting any animal, human and non-human.
In the third section it is important to note the ALF does not, in any way, condone violence against any animal, human or non-human. Any action involving violence is by its definition not an ALF action, and any person involved is not an ALF member.
The fourth section must be strictly adhered to. In over 20 years, and thousands of actions, nobody has ever been injured or killed in an ALF action."

just thought you would like to know...

I don't support the animal liberation front, and am most certainly not a member. But those horrible, horrible people involved in animal testing and factory farming have committed unforgivable acts of purely useless and barbaric torture and murder of innocent animals.
Of course, when the ALF don't get their research right and torture and murder innocent people, well they're no different to the aforementioned scum of the earth. As I said before, I respect their aims and values, but they should make sure they are targeting the right people before they kill an innocent person.

Just my 2pence worth.....

Shouldn't it be the governments, that should be targeted (obviously not by an arson campaign!). It's the law that pharmaceuticals are tested on animals, so surely the first port of call would be the governments to change the laws, and not target the people who are just doing their jobs!

Just my 2pence worth.....

Shouldn't it be the governments, that should be targeted (obviously not by an arson campaign!). It's the law that pharmaceuticals are tested on animals, so surely the first port of call would be the governments to change the laws, and not target the people who are just doing their jobs!
Agreed.
Except for the 'just doing their jobs' bit. It's not like anyone forced them into doing this - they think that it's perfectly okay to do/contribute to this kind of thing for one's own personal gain.

They sound a lot like the Nazis, minus genocide.

<snip snip snip>
*applauds*
Very well said NAS.

I say good on them.
They need much better research before they go nearly killing innocent people, but those motherfuckers involved with animal testing and factory farming should be killed.

I know it's extreme, and I'm definately not a violent person ordinarily, but those people make my blood boil. More so even than SUV/4WD drivers, even though they are responsible for the death of more humans and animals in the long term, it's not as immediate or deliberate.

How very ignorant

Non Aligned States : "Animal Liberation Front Guidelines
1. To liberate animals from places of abuse, i.e. fur farms, laboratories, factory farms, etc. and place them in good homes where they may live out their natural lives free from suffering.

Like PETA, som members of which were recently arrested for animal cruelty for inhumanely euthanasing animals from a shelter, and improperly disposing of the bodies. (And yes, PETA and ALF are not the same. But they are linked.)

4. To take all necessary precautions against hurting any animal, human and non-human.

If the last action makes one not an ALF member, then it is likely that ALF has conducted no official actions whatsoever, as their actions in destroying research laboratories hurt humans by destroying valuable health and agricultural research data, and thus delaying cures for diseases and starvation. This leads to deaths.

As for direct harm: branding Graham Hall (http://www.rickross.com/reference/animal/animal22.html) was not harmful? Numerous acts of arson which destroy people's livelihood is not harmful? And one can simply take "all necessary precaustioins against hurting any animal" by not setting off incendiary devices in urban areas. Even if the resulting fires are isolated and the buildings unoccupied, firefighters are being put at risk by these people.

The fourth section must be strictly adhered to. In over 20 years, and thousands of actions, nobody has ever been injured or killed in an ALF action."

Due more to incompetence than lack of trying. And they don't want violence against any animal? When any good home safety guide tells you that in the event of fire you should get out of the house without going back for pets? And firebombs aren't exactly the best way of not killing people either.

I like animals (or at least most of them) but in the end I recognise that a human is worth more than a rat, a rat we would otherwise have exterminated with traps and poison. Not only this, but the information about poor conditions is false- the animals are well-fed, and vets are kept on site.

And to Sosato- one minor point, electric fences don't hurt. Trust me, I touch them for fun. They just make your joints click a bit, and it feels weird.

I can't believe ALF would do such things:
http://www.code7r.org/inquiz/images/alf0.jpg
Hasn't he fallen since the 80's?

On another note, what is he doing to this seal?
http://www.thecomicshop.com.au/covers/comics/a/alf-48-marvel-nm.jpg
I can't believe this was the cover of a children's comic!

The ALF are a disgrace. We should arrest them all.

Difficult, seeing as how there is no way to prove that anyone is or is not a member of the ALF, as rather than a conventional organisation with lists of members and such like, instead it is a flag of convenience which cen be used by anyone applying the rules that Lacarion posted up.

I can't believe ALF would do such things:
Hasn't he fallen since the 80's?

On another note, what is he doing to this seal?
I can't believe this was the cover of a children's comic!

Don't you understand? Cat's are just a gateway animal. They just end up getting you hooked on the harder stuff. ;)

Difficult, seeing as how there is no way to prove that anyone is or is not a member of the ALF, as rather than a conventional organisation with lists of members and such like, instead it is a flag of convenience which cen be used by anyone applying the rules that Lacarion posted up.


Or even those who don't.

Animal rights activists have unleashed a new arson campaign in the run-up to the introduction of a law next month which could see them jailed for five years for economic sabotage.
The daft thing is that they're not going to be locked up for attempted murder, GBH, assault, intimidating or threatening behaviour or even posession of weapons. No: they're going away for economic sabotage. For harming the profits of a company.

This could be you. Protesting peacefully against an arms manufacturer selling guns to Zimbabwe? If they can prove that you harmed their profits, bang. Five years.

Now that's insanity.

We need to set-up a pound for animal activists including putting them down like we do with unwanted pets. Naturally, they'll get the best quality pet food available. :D

Animal rights activists have unleashed a new arson campaign in the run-up to the introduction of a law next month which could see them jailed for five years for economic sabotage

this doesnt mean you can commit arson, burglary, and attempted murder and only get 5 years does it? this is an ADDED charge for those who cant be convicted directly of these much more serious crimes right?

RIGHT???

I hate them as I hate peta with a passion. If I ever see a ALF member, there will be a 7.62 HP lodged in thier skull. :mp5:

There is no way animal testing benifits humans in any form, and this should be reason enough to discontinue it.


Animal testing benefits both humans and animals. Without testing on animals the heart surgery my brothers dog just had wouldn't have been possible.

snip

Just so you know, as has been pointed out. How many labs have your group burned down? How many years of research have been lost? How many animals have your group released into a enviroment that is not natural to them?

Get a fucking clue.

1. All your group is about is shoving your ideals down other's throats. You know you will not get your way in a government because no one agrees with your ideals, so you try and scare everyone to get your way. You know what that is? Terrorism, plain and simple.

2. Destroying labs is quite possibly the stupidest way to get your points across. What is going to happen when they relocate and restart research? More animals will be tested on to make up for the lost research. Hence, the cost to make a cure/treatment in animal lives goes up.

3. You claim that no human or animal has been harmed by your beloved group. I call BS on this. Think of all the lives lost from research being set back 1-2 years. Even better, what happens to the animals released into a new enviroment. I was looking up some of these actions and found massive animal deaths due to being released. Not to mention the damage to the ecosystem that can result in introducing a new species into it.

Great job in your fine works to help the animals. Now, you may or may not be a part of ALF/ELF, but sence you are representing them in this post, I would like you to tell you and your little group of dumbasses that if they come near me.... Well.... Bob help you....

In the third section it is important to note the ALF does not, in any way, condone violence against any animal, human or non-human. Any action involving violence is by its definition not an ALF action, and any person involved is not an ALF member.
The fourth section must be strictly adhered to. In over 20 years, and thousands of actions, nobody has ever been injured or killed in an ALF action."

just thought you would like to know...

Ah, so according to ALF's guidelines, so long as no actual direct physical harm is done to living beings, any action is permissable?

Significantly short sighted if so. Particularly when you consider chain reactions. If I were to take for example, say, the sudden and immediate destruction of all major oil refineries within the United States in a simultaneous strike. If carefully executed, nobody dies in the explosions. But what do you think happens afterwards?

And even closer to home, the firebombing of peoples residences. Does not the immediate destruction of your propery harm you? Do you not suffer loss? If your house burns down but you are alive, can you say that you are unharmed? What if, in the case that was shown, the fire had spread? What if it had gone on to burn the entire house down? What if it had been a dry season with strong winds, and the entire neighborhood caught fire?

Would ALF then declare it accidental? But how can it be accidental if the use of devices designed specifically to bring fiery death was deliberately emplaced by them? Or will they call it collateral damage, the military eupharism for acceptable civilian casualties in the achievement of a goal? But they are not the army, they are not the government. These are no government sanctioned actions to achieve goals. It amounts to little nothing more than deliberate arson and manslaughter.

The use of violent means to achieve a goal, any goal, has usually resulted in consequences that are neither pleasant, nor conducive for society as a whole to function. It will only increase in radicality and eventually, deaths.

Sosato, your statements are still fundamentally the same. The advocation of voilence and murder to achieve a goal. If this becomes an acceptable practice, then by logical extension, so too is the suicide bombers right to destroy lives for his cause. It then becomes right for terror organizations to sieze and kill people for their affiliations. For the "final solution" to be carried out to whomever you deem unsuited for life.

When does it become wrong? A hundred? A thousand? A million? There will be that many or even more deaths if what you say is taken to heart.

For anyone interested, here is a site showing some of ELF/ALF/Peta's actions.

Click (http://www.furcommission.com/attack/historical.html)

This is by far one of the better ones.

July 21
Oregon Horse Slaughter Plant Firebombed
USA: Cavel West Horse Slaughter Plant in Redmond is torched with napalm, causing over $1 million in damage. The blaze is so hot that it threatens a nearby propane storage facility. The entire water supply of Redmond is depleted in the fight to contain the fire, forcing residents to curtail water use. About 100 horses trapped in stalls adjacent to the plant have to be rescued by firefighters. Guilt is claimed by ALF and ELF.

Bravo, damned near blow up propane facility. Well, by thier claims had the facility been destroyed it would not have been thier fault.

....So, no reply Lacarion? No trying to counter arguments against your merry band of animal rights extremists? Figured.... There simply is no way to legitimize what has been done. With that I will let this thread die.

I find unnecessary cruelty - and a lot of it IS unnecessary (cosmetics and suchlike) - to animals pointless and deeply immoral.

However, if I want to persuade people of my point of view, I don't try and make them think I'm a psychopath. It's kind of… counterproductive.

Consider this:
yawn.


Consider this:
The animals in your example do not = sentient. They are not self-aware. They act on nothing more than instincts. We benefit greatly from testing medicines and cures on animals.

Just a note, I hate animal testing with a passion, but I still think these guys are... yeah, F*cking nuts.


why it helps people. I agree testing cosmetics on animals is a bit off but we're talking about research into life saving projects that can put an end to diseases.