NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it important to have patriotism or nationalism?I do not see the need, unless it is to unify the state against a common enemy. Though that may be a matter of the end justifying the means. My loyalties are not with a collective body such as a nation-state or a community, and I have received several remarks of, how should I say, questionable sensibility. I see that not only as potentialy dangerous, because it can elevate to such an enormous degree, but also disrespectful. Rather than do that I have different degree of loyalty which varies from person to person. I do hold dear to my principles and possess a deep loyalty to them, which could be for ideological purposes. This also prevents one from having a one size fits all mind set. I apply the same method to ideas as respect, honor, and even emotions.
With that I beg the question: How do you hold your loyalties?

Patriotism is being proud of your country and I am proud of my country (at least the parts of it Bush hasn't tampered with).

Nationalism is a philosophy that your nation is the ideal and perfect place and because of that you have the right to rule and dominate the world.

Hope this helps.

Is it important to have patriotism or nationalism?I do not see the need, unless it is to unify the state against a common enemy. Though that may be a matter of the end justifying the means. My loyalties are not with a collective body such as a nation-state or a community, and I have received several remarks of, how should I say, questionable sensibility. I see that not only as potentialy dangerous, because it can elevate to such an enormous degree, but also disrespectful. Rather than do that I have different degree of loyalty which varies from person to person. I do hold dear to my principles and possess a deep loyalty to them, which could be for ideological purposes. This also prevents one from having a one size fits all mind set. I apply the same method to ideas as respect, honor, and even emotions.
With that I beg the question: How do you hold your loyalties?I hold my loyalties to the Nation that gives me the freedom and the right to question it's government. that gives me a voice to change that government and the rights that I now enjoy. While I may disagree with the Government, I will always be loyal to my Nation.

I am no patriot, but "treason" is out of the question. I am neutral.

1st: Me
2nd: My direct family
3rd: Close friends
4th: Indirect family and friends
......
Somewhere down there: The state of New Jersey (state loyalties > national loyalities)
Right below that: USA (national soveriegnty/autonomy > internationalism)

Is it important to have patriotism or nationalism?I do not see the need, unless it is to unify the state against a common enemy. Though that may be a matter of the end justifying the means. My loyalties are not with a collective body such as a nation-state or a community, and I have received several remarks of, how should I say, questionable sensibility. I see that not only as potentialy dangerous, because it can elevate to such an enormous degree, but also disrespectful. Rather than do that I have different degree of loyalty which varies from person to person. I do hold dear to my principles and possess a deep loyalty to them, which could be for ideological purposes. This also prevents one from having a one size fits all mind set. I apply the same method to ideas as respect, honor, and even emotions.
With that I beg the question: How do you hold your loyalties?

I should point out that my answer is based on personal politics.

Well, if you're speaking of different friends or someone I've known for a while who tells me something in confidence, it is never repeated unless what they told me is putting them in danger.

This is one of the most important things to me: I am heavily justice oriented and honor oriented. I have many times stood up for someone against a crowd because they couldn't stand up for themselves, when the crowd was wrong. I have had one woman call me crying because she couldn't believe I stood up for her against a crowd of bastards, even though we literally hated each other when we first met and still weren't that close. None of her good friends even stood up for her. Point is the circumstances. You don't watch while a crowd batters someone unless you're a coward. I'm there for my people. It's a matter of honor. Deeply important to me.

I deeply respect some people, and have no respect for others. And the grey area in between. However under many circumstances, I'll stand up for the people I have no respect for, just as a matter of principle if they can't defend themselves, when they are in the right. Honor has always been important to me. Always, and always will be. In all ways.

One thing you mentioned that is an impossibility. You cannot control your emotions. You can keep them in check, but it is impossible for the brain to "stop" an emotion. Suppress it, put it in your subconscious, yes. But emotions are there whether you acknowledge them or not, so how you react to emotions depends on your defense mechanisms if it's a painful emotion, etc.

And I definitely do not subscribe to "the end justifies the means". No matter what the situation, should the means be unethical.

1st: Me
2nd: My direct family
3rd: Close friends
4th: Indirect family and friends
......
Somewhere down there: The state of New Jersey (state loyalties > national loyalities)
Right below that: USA (national soveriegnty/autonomy > internationalism)

Well I change this around a bit.
1st My wife and son
2nd Me
3rd True friends
4th Other relatives
5th Other humans

and that is it.

I have no loyalty to an artificially defined area of land, nor to a group of dishonest self interested individuals who claim to be the government over and above their being human.

1) My wife and me
2) Me and my wife
3) Independant Quebec
4) Independant Canada (!)
5) Environment
6) Humankind

1) God
2) Country
3) Family/ Friends
4) Others
5) Self

And before you ask, I'm VERY patriotic/nationalistic (borderline fanatical). I'd take a bullet to save anyone who's American--family member, friend, or even someone on the street. I stand at the National Anthem, hold my hand over my herat, and chew out anyone around who does not respect their country. "Why?", you ask. Because, if someone is not willing to respect the country that gave them the life they live does not deserve it and is very offensive to me. Just personal beliefs, I guess.

My loyalties lie with me and my loved ones, both family and friends.

I'm loyal to my country, but not if it means doing something I can determine beyond a doubt is wrong or unjust. Same goes with family/friends etc.

If they do something I know to be wrong, I will not support them.

I believe patriotism and nationalism can be dangerously ignorant if used to promote the belief that your culture is superior to others.

However it is important to feel bound to the land on which you live. Today's number one terrorists are those who destroy that land in the name of greed and personal glory. More nations need solidarity to prevent mining companies and other "land developers" from using a region and then walking away when there is nothing left to exloit, leaving the residents with polluted water and defoliated forests.

Hmmmm, I always put my family ahead of all else. There aren't many of us left and since 98% of them are really decent folk, its always a no-brainer...alothough what a family member thinks is best for them and what I think is best has conflicted (ie:my uncle and his battle with the bottle)
After that, it's ME. I'm of no use to anyone if I'm sick/injured/dying/starving/dead. After myself comes my friends, followed by my fellow man, regardless of where they are from.

I'm a proud Canadian and I'll take a bullet for my country (though I'll never kill someone for my country) Being from a nation whose identity is firmly based on multi-cultralism, the immigrant experience and a history of homesteading, one that has never (to my knowledge) been an agressor in a war, this comes fairly easily anyway. (Though Canada has its share of dirty laundry, like any nation)
I'm the son of an immigrant, and I just came from having dinner with my roomates, in our great big tree covered backyard, my roomates being a)the son of an English immigrant and b) a recent immigrant from Afghantistan. To me, it was a quintissential Canadian experience (the Afghani did the cooking) and I'm feeling pretty nationalitic right now (most immigrants and first generation Canadians are fiercelt nationalistic...I'm no exception) I'm sure there are many Canadians and also Americans (in an American context of course) who can relate to this.

I believe patriotism and nationalism can be dangerously ignorant if used to promote the belief that your culture is superior to others.

However it is important to feel bound to the land on which you live. Today's number one terrorists are those who destroy that land in the name of greed and personal glory. More nations need solidarity to prevent mining companies and other "land developers" from using a region and then walking away when there is nothing left to exloit, leaving the residents with polluted water and defoliated forests.

SOLIDARITY I love that word, and the concept. We certainly could use more of it.

I really don't care about the US as a nation at all. I wouldn't want to see the people suffer, but I couldn't care less about a nationstate known as the United States of America.

I really don't care about the US as a nation at all. I wouldn't want to see the people suffer, but I couldn't care less about a nationstate known as the United States of America.
A general feeling of indifference?

I should point out that my answer is based on personal politics.

Well, if you're speaking of different friends or someone I've known for a while who tells me something in confidence, it is never repeated unless what they told me is putting them in danger.

This is one of the most important things to me: I am heavily justice oriented and honor oriented. I have many times stood up for someone against a crowd because they couldn't stand up for themselves, when the crowd was wrong. I have had one woman call me crying because she couldn't believe I stood up for her against a crowd of bastards, even though we literally hated each other when we first met and still weren't that close. None of her good friends even stood up for her. Point is the circumstances. You don't watch while a crowd batters someone unless you're a coward. I'm there for my people. It's a matter of honor. Deeply important to me.

I deeply respect some people, and have no respect for others. And the grey area in between. However under many circumstances, I'll stand up for the people I have no respect for, just as a matter of principle if they can't defend themselves, when they are in the right. Honor has always been important to me. Always, and always will be. In all ways.

One thing you mentioned that is an impossibility. You cannot control your emotions. You can keep them in check, but it is impossible for the brain to "stop" an emotion. Suppress it, put it in your subconscious, yes. But emotions are there whether you acknowledge them or not, so how you react to emotions depends on your defense mechanisms if it's a painful emotion, etc.

And I definitely do not subscribe to "the end justifies the means". No matter what the situation, should the means be unethical.

Right on! I appreciate respect for confidence between friends. I think that not too many people anymore, if ever, are been willing to put their asses on the line for someone else. I've gotten myself into some pretty serious scrapes because somebody started some shit with one of my friends,(and mind you I am selective, my friends dont start shit with people wantonly, if they do then they're not friend material), Maybe its because as a kid I moved around alot so I learned to appreciate friendship. I take any attack against a friend as a personal attack. Its like I dont have to think about it its just automatic,(You have hurt my friend and now You MUST DIE!).
I dont even have to say anything about my girlfriend,(my best friend) or my family, because then I just might get myself into serious trouble were someone to be less than polite to them.

I really don't care about the US as a nation at all. I wouldn't want to see the people suffer, but I couldn't care less about a nationstate known as the United States of America.
Just shows how much you know. If it weren't for the USA, everybody's be speaking either German or Japanese, and 200 million would have died within a decade instead of a century.

How do I hold my loyalties?

In a handbasket while skipping to and fro

I hold my loyaltys only to other white National Socialst and other white Nationalist

1st: Me
2nd: My direct family
3rd: Close friends
4th: Indirect family and friends
......
Somewhere down there: The state of New Jersey (state loyalties > national loyalities)
Right below that: USA (national soveriegnty/autonomy > internationalism)
Same, except substitute illinois for NJ

I've already made a fairly long post on the concept of patriotism, and I won't repeat it here. Let me just say that, at least if you live in a country that isn't just some 20-yr old geostrategic fabrication, there is a history, an ancestry, a culture and a community there to be proud of.

You need things to be proud of. You need a community larger than you to realize yourself in. You need a ground to stick your roots in. A Nation is all these.

I'm a patriot.

I've already made a fairly long post on the concept of patriotism, and I won't repeat it here. Let me just say that, at least if you live in a country that isn't just some 20-yr old geostrategic fabrication, there is a history, an ancestry, a culture and a community there to be proud of.

You need things to be proud of. You need a community larger than you to realize yourself in. You need a ground to stick your roots in. A Nation is all these.

I'm a patriot.

Does this mean you would act against your own government if it threatened to eliminate the things you were proud of?