NationStates Jolt Archive

Yep, the stark county board of elections has hired ME (7.80 an hour!) to help deal with the infernal touch-screen voting machines from Diebold. Now, I know a lot of people have gone on and on here about these machines and made relentless conspiracy theory claims pertaining to such machines. Ask questions away, but first, my opening statement!

These machines are equipped with a receipt printer, which prints a paper ballot, which is visible under a nice little glass screen, before it is the voter can read the paper ballot to make sure it printed correctly.

I'd also say that the machines are not as easily tampered with (or pre-loaded with votes, as some have claimed) for several reasons. One: votes are stored on a PCMCIA card provided by the SanDisk corporation (the people who made my MP3 player) as is the actual "election." No voting, or presence of votes can occur until the PCMCIA card is inserted. Two: Votes cannot be tallied on the machine once the card is inserted without using a Voter ID smart card, of which a limited amount are provided to each precincts. You cannot vote using the infernal Administrator card, that can only be used to run the foul diagnostics and close down voting.

No ballots were registered on the machines when I activated them. So, thats my thoughts.

These machines are equipped with a receipt printer, which prints a paper ballot, which is visible under a nice little glass screen, before it is the voter can read the paper ballot to make sure it printed correctly.well, that pretty much covers it. After all that money spent on reforming the voting system, the machines are as good as the old punch card machines. At least they're better than they were last year

Yep, the stark county board of elections has hired ME (7.80 an hour!) to help deal with the infernal touch-screen voting machines from Diebold. Now, I know a lot of people have gone on and on here about these machines and made relentless conspiracy theory claims pertaining to such machines. Ask questions away, but first, my opening statement!

These machines are equipped with a receipt printer, which prints a paper ballot, which is visible under a nice little glass screen, before it is the voter can read the paper ballot to make sure it printed correctly.

I'd also say that the machines are not as easily tampered with (or pre-loaded with votes, as some have claimed) for several reasons. One: votes are stored on a PCMCIA card provided by the SanDisk corporation (the people who made my MP3 player) as is the actual "election." No voting, or presence of votes can occur until the PCMCIA card is inserted. Two: Votes cannot be tallied on the machine once the card is inserted without using a Voter ID smart card, of which a limited amount are provided to each precincts. You cannot vote using the infernal Administrator card, that can only be used to run the foul diagnostics and close down voting.

No ballots were registered on the machines when I activated them. So, thats my thoughts.
Something akin to this?
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/5921.html

Something akin to this?
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/5921.html
You cannot hack the memory card unless it is plugged in.

It also dealt with optical scan machines instead of the touch screens I dealt with.

And beyond that, the hacks were done from the inside. And if the boards of elections are anything like the one we have here, there has to be a republican and a democrat there for everything, including breaking the seal on the PCMCIA cards, then setting them up for the election, then resealing them. Then reopening them on election day.

Beyond that, to substitute a new card in, you'd have to have a computer properly formatted to deal with the special formatting on the card. They tried to plug a card into someone's laptop, and the computer asked only if they wanted to reformat the card to allow the laptop to use it.

And beyond that, the hacks were done from the inside. And if the boards of elections are anything like the one we have here, there has to be a republican and a democrat there for everything, including breaking the seal on the PCMCIA cards, then setting them up for the election, then resealing them. Then reopening them on election day.

Beyond that, to substitute a new card in, you'd have to have a computer properly formatted to deal with the special formatting on the card. They tried to plug a card into someone's laptop, and the computer asked only if they wanted to reformat the card to allow the laptop to use it.
Nah, you'd just need the right compiler to use the card.

Nah, you'd just need the right compiler to use the card.
All the same, to use the cards you'd have to break into the storage facility steal the cards, break the seals, alter each card, get back into the secure area, replace the seals and replace the cards. While it can be tampered with, it's easier to stuff a paper ballot box with ballots.

You cannot hack the memory card unless it is plugged in.

It also dealt with optical scan machines instead of the touch screens I dealt with.

What's the possibility of a cheater creating more votes when they themselves vote?

The paper trail wouldn't matter much if the voter was implicit in the fraud.

Ok, let's say the machine can't be hacked. Can the software be hacked before it gets into the machine? Can the data be hacked after it leaves the machine?

Here's an interesting discussion from a naysayer:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:toddPG0hdgcJ:www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/11/the_problem_wit.html+schneier+voting+machine+security&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

What's the possibility of a cheater creating more votes when they themselves vote?

The paper trail wouldn't matter much if the voter was implicit in the fraud.
One cannot vote more than once, because a single-use voter smart card must be inserted to enter the ballot stage.

Ok, let's say the machine can't be hacked. Can the software be hacked before it gets into the machine? Can the data be hacked after it leaves the machine?

Here's an interesting discussion from a naysayer:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:toddPG0hdgcJ:www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/11/the_problem_wit.html+schneier+voting+machine+security&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Theoretically it could be hacked afterwards, but the hacker would have to move quickly, if I understand the procedure correctly, after the day is done, a finishing report is printed, and that is checked against the numbers that are put into the server. The server is a potential weak point, but by the time the server is is in use, there are two paper records of the votes cast, as well as the copy of the data on memory card to boot.

I don't like the fact that the server is plugged into the internet, but the weakspot window is fairly short.

And further research has shown that the server is not a Diebold product, instead it is a Dell product.

Say, are those cards using encryption to store data?

This cannot be. Diebold is Eeeeevil! :)Thanks for posting insightful fact and reason - it is a refreshing change for this topic.

One cannot vote more than once, because a single-use voter smart card must be inserted to enter the ballot stage.

But if a voter who intended fraud snuck in their own hacked card could they make more than 1 vote?

If there was a conspiracy to use the machines to commit fraud I would guess they'd have a card sample already hacked and they'd jsut sneak it in when they vote to add a few more votes.

Diebold... hmmm... 'die bold'... :p

But if a voter who intended fraud snuck in their own hacked card could they make more than 1 vote?

If there was a conspiracy to use the machines to commit fraud I would guess they'd have a card sample already hacked and they'd jsut sneak it in when they vote to add a few more votes.
Yes, but this is little different from bringing in multiple paper ballots or some such things. The only difference being that a hacked smart card would be more of a technological challenge. It's quite similar to some new ATM cards.

Diebold... hmmm... 'die bold'... :p
Yep, they make friendly happy ATMs, found all over the world! (And live just a few miles down the road from me!)

Say, are those cards using encryption to store data?
I truthfully don't know. I wouldn't suspect so, simply because the processing capability of the voting machines themselves is incredibly limited.

Yes, but this is little different from bringing in multiple paper ballots or some such things. The only difference being that a hacked smart card would be more of a technological challenge.Unless of course, the company was in on it from the beginning, and either supplied people with hacked smart cards, or told them how to do it.

Yep, the stark county board of elections has hired ME (7.80 an hour!) to help deal with the infernal touch-screen voting machines from Diebold. Now, I know a lot of people have gone on and on here about these machines and made relentless conspiracy theory claims pertaining to such machines. Ask questions away, but first, my opening statement!

These machines are equipped with a receipt printer, which prints a paper ballot, which is visible under a nice little glass screen, before it is the voter can read the paper ballot to make sure it printed correctly.

I'd also say that the machines are not as easily tampered with (or pre-loaded with votes, as some have claimed) for several reasons. One: votes are stored on a PCMCIA card provided by the SanDisk corporation (the people who made my MP3 player) as is the actual "election." No voting, or presence of votes can occur until the PCMCIA card is inserted. Two: Votes cannot be tallied on the machine once the card is inserted without using a Voter ID smart card, of which a limited amount are provided to each precincts. You cannot vote using the infernal Administrator card, that can only be used to run the foul diagnostics and close down voting.

No ballots were registered on the machines when I activated them. So, thats my thoughts.

7.80 an hour? They pay illegal aliens more than that!

Unless of course, the company was in on it from the beginning, and either supplied people with hacked smart cards, or told them how to do it.
That's a bit much of a conspiracy theory for me. Although I do suspect that if someone was taking excesively long at the voting machine, the poll workers would notice.

Liverbreath']7.80 an hour? They pay illegal aliens more than that!
You're obviously not a college student home for the summer in North Canton.

Let's see, to address the concern about pre-prepared voter-ID cards being used. Of late, I have learned that the cards are prepared at the polling station, not by Diebold or anyone else besides a bi-partisan team running the polling station immediately prior to and during the election.

No one seems to know whether the server is plugged in to the internet or not. I believe that the machine (a Dell server) is stand alone, and is basically just a really big, high-tech counting machine. I've heard tell that the numbers are actually phoned into the state boards of elections, but I'm not sure as to the truthfulness.

Beyond that, the cards are single use because once they are used to vote, then the machines wipe them. So, you'd actually have to encode the voter-ID cards at the voting machine to do so. Where you're hands would be in relatively clear view. (it would be quite easy to see a person using an encoder from across the room, but not to see for whom they are voting.)

To hack the PCMCIA cards is a whole different story. Because the PCMCIA card slot is not on the top of the machine (but on the side, in a location you cannot reach without closing the lid on the voting machine) in a locked (physically) slot, it would be incredibly tough to mess with that. And remember, the much maligned Diebold has nothing to do with the production of the memory cards. Those are provided by a third party provider, in this case, Sandisk, against whom no charges have been leveled.

That's a bit much of a conspiracy theory for me. It is true that it implies a huge conspiracy, but it is also true that the owner of the company publicly stated that he wanted Bush to win.