NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes it seems overseas even our European allies prefer China to the US. And who can blame them? I mean while China is under a brutal communist dictatorship, the US started fastfood! So while the Chinese govt. killed their own people the company's in the US might be blamed for adding to the worlds obesity rate.

Phh... capitalism stinks anyway. Brutality, not so much(in real life. In my nation...). But, China is also just older, and has better culture. Too bad about all the other stuff.

It's all relevant really...

I hate the US because you guys (undirected) as tourists are loud-mouth gaping douches who clog our streets, dress inappropriately for our theatre and make a general nuisence of yourselves...

Trust me, it isn't a pretty sight; and this just isn't here. I remember being on a small tour in Paris with 1 Canadian and 5 Americans, 3 of which my travel companion referred to as the "Texas Bunch". They truly did embrace the American stereotype.

On the other hand, I hate China for it's lack of reagrd for human rights. They really could do a lot for all its people (then again, at least all the Chinese are deprived of the same rights; so they are equal on some level).

It depends on your view...

However, it would seem so because of the general opinion of the world regarding the USA's foreign policy.

China rising power, who sells cheap goods with rapidly improving quality.

US degenerate older power with last gasp expansionistic dreams, and an arrogantly imperialistic public face.

no contest...

It's all relevant really...

I hate the US because you guys (undirected) as tourists are loud-mouth gaping douches who clog our streets, dress inappropriately for our theatre and make a general nuisence of yourselves...

Trust me, it isn't a pretty sight; and this just isn't here. I remember being on a small tour in Paris with 1 Canadian and 5 Americans, 3 of which my travel companion referred to as the "Texas Bunch". They truly did embrace the American stereotype.

On the other hand, I hate China for it's lack of reagrd for human rights. They really could do a lot for all its people (then again, at least all the Chinese are deprived of the same rights; so they are equal on some level).

It depends on your view...

However, it would seem so because of the general opinion of the world regarding the USA's foreign policy.

I can understand that, I always, when in a foreign country notice some obnoxious and yes underdressed Americans, it makes me angry and hell I live in the US. But I always try to respect other peoples cultures.

I just think that, for the time being, the US, and not just the govt. But some of the obnoxious people have lost its way.

I mean currently the US is a very underdressed country, and it is spreading too. But I miss a time when everybody, even gangsters and mobsters wore suits, trenchcoats (not the gothic kind) and hats (and Im not talking about baseball hats either.

Depends on how they define China, as China is merely a nation and an very old, continuous civilization. Many people find faults within the government of China (at least, on mainland China), but I feel that China (as a nation, not a government) itself is a great country.

One thing is, even though China is a brutal dictatorship that is communist it doesnt touch world politics, the US intervenes all the time so I can see where this hatred is coming from now.

I can understand that, I always, when in a foreign country notice some obnoxious and yes underdressed Americans, it makes me angry and hell I live in the US. But I always try to respect other peoples cultures.

I just think that, for the time being, the US, and not just the govt. But some of the obnoxious people have lost its way.


i hate to dress up, that's why i don't travel to furrin lands.

Uh... If the government of China is a dictatorship, then where's the dictator?

OF COURSE CHINA IS MORE POPULAR THAN THE USA. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Actually, many Europeans don't care about the horrendous human rights record of dear Motherland across the border. Then again, China also has many good points for you to admire as well. :D

Also, and this has nothing to do with why people should hate the US and this isnt saying that they are bad people some are the nicest people I have met but the US is full of obese people, I mean, three out of ten? Thats discusting and when I see that the majority of Americans are overweight and looking at the number of fat children I just want to say what the FUCK! I mean really, how do these people ever get laid?

I love america
but i dont love its leader,Bush

He has ruined the US image in the world,we used to be a great nation,we were friends with france and with Russia and with China etc etc

But Bush fucked it all up for the US now.Gas Prices up,we are losing the war,our image is ruined and he does nothing about it!

If Bush got impeached,i think the whole world whould cheer in joy

Uh... If the government of China is a dictatorship, then where's the dictator?
the whole cult of personality thing is so 60s, and it hasn't become retro in the people republic yet. give it time, little red books'll be worth big bucks.

I can understand that, I always, when in a foreign country notice some obnoxious and yes underdressed Americans, it makes me angry and hell I live in the US. But I always try to respect other peoples cultures.

I just think that, for the time being, the US, and not just the govt. But some of the obnoxious people have lost its way.
I never said there was anything wrong with it. I'm just saying that they may seem unpopular because of how they act for one thing.

And yes, I agree. The US used to have many good points, but the administration is going back in progress and hasn't made notable contributions to human right progress.

Yes, China is stuck in the past, but the thing is, people know it. However, the US has always been, for the longest time, seen as a beacon, like other western nations as a beacon for human rights, and now it's gone back on those priniciples.

Also, and this has nothing to do with why people should hate the US and this isnt saying that they are bad people some are the nicest people I have met but the US is full of obese people, I mean, three out of ten? Thats discusting and when I see that the majority of Americans are overweight and looking at the number of fat children I just want to say what the FUCK! I mean really, how do these people ever get laid?

other plus size folk. ifin your a bigin and she's a bigin no use callin the kettle black, just bump them uglies as fast as you hypertension will allow.

Yes it seems overseas even our European allies prefer China to the US. And who can blame them? I mean while China is under a brutal communist dictatorship, the US started fastfood! So while the Chinese govt. killed their own people the company's in the US might be blamed for adding to the worlds obesity rate.
Hehe, come of it. China is still not a happy place to be a dissident, but it's getting better.
Patience is the key here. Every dictatorship is eventually changing for the better. The population demands it, and dictators can only keep them at bay for so long. Except of course when there's an outside threat, and your behaviour towards China (or DPRK or Iran...) just gives their governments something to focus their people's attention to.
And China (for now at least) keeps largely to itself, not telling anyone how to live. That is a big bonus as far as I'm concerned.

"It depends on your view...

However, it would seem so because of the general opinion of the world regarding the USA's foreign policy."

This is one Canadian thinking their own opinion is that of the world, and that they are the voice of the world, and are all knowing of the world's view on America's foreign policy.... While I respect your opinion by all means, don't fail to mention that it is just that.... your personal opinion. As far as the europeans preferring China over the U.S. aren't these the same bunch that wanted Libya on the Human Rights Council??? Doesn't this void their opinion of all validity?

Also, do you have a source? I would like to see this study.. Again, not trying to be disrespectful to the original author, just sharing my personal opinion...

other plus size folk. ifin your a bigin and she's a bigin no use callin the kettle black, just bump them uglies as fast as you hypertension will allow.

ummm.... what?

Allright, what the US needs to do is act fast, even if Bush does have to serve out his term the US needs to elect better leaders ok, that means NO MORE CONSERVATIVES! And no more people like Bush who claim to be conservative but the only people who notice he isnt a conservative are the people who arent voting for him. Yes we need to sharpen up the voting crowd by educating the voters a lot better and by getting more people to vote. I mean we cant afford to elect leaders with IQ's lower than their height in inches. Who have coldest (so to speak) most revolting (not physically) administration. As Howard Dean put it, someone needs to stand up for the Republicans. I would vote for Howard Dean and I dont see why anyone with a fraction of a brain would not. Hes 10 times smarter than Bush can respect other peoples cultures. And Im sorry if the rednecks who voted in Bush cant respect other peoples cultures.

China is a one-party state, ruled by an authoritian capitalist regime. If you look at the economic structure it is generally a free-market economy. The People there are becoming more liberated every year, but they still have a long way to go.

China is a one-party state, ruled by an authoritian capitalist regime. If you look at the economic structure it is generally a free-market economy. The People there are becoming more liberated every year, but they still have a long way to go.

Yeah and that is good but the problem in the US lies here. The people are pushing towards a dictatorship and they dont know it. Wake up people! Theres a man in congress or senate, cant remember which who lives in Wisconsin who wants Bush in their for life, look at the Patriot act! Limiting our rights for national security. Increasing power and size of central govt. look at Fox News! The media in this case is brainwashing everyone. they are voting for Bush, the new American dictator and Democracy is falling with applause (kind of like that line in the new star wars.) But like I said, it could get turned around, but that wont happen.

Yes it seems overseas even our European allies prefer China to the US. And who can blame them? I mean while China is under a brutal communist dictatorship, the US started fastfood! So while the Chinese govt. killed their own people the company's in the US might be blamed for adding to the worlds obesity rate.
( shrug )

ummm.... what?

LOL!!! I was thinking the same think, what the hell is this guy talking about? Ifin biggin, WTF?

Yeah and that is good but the problem in the US lies here. The people are pushing towards a dictatorship and they dont know it. Wake up people! Theres a man in congress or senate, cant remember which who lives in Wisconsin who wants Bush in their for life, look at the Patriot act! Limiting our rights for national security. Increasing power and size of central govt. look at Fox News! The media in this case is brainwashing everyone. they are voting for Bush, the new American dictator and Democracy is falling with applause (kind of like that line in the new star wars.) But like I said, it could get turned around, but that wont happen.
Oh bullshit. Talk about overreacting! Jeeze.

I think its pretty sad when China is held in higher egard than the US. I'm a Canadian, and while I have no real love for the US, I have enough sense to realise that being a hopelessly righ wing democracy with lots of fat people and obnoxious tourists (I call them Tourrorists) is hardly worthy of the contempt so many hold the US in nowadays. Yeah, Supreme Fearless Leader Bush and his policies are obnoxious and annoying, even dangerous, but its really just a flash in the pan.

To compare the current US Policy Of International Obnoxiousness against China's equally obnoxious foreign policies (cough*Tibet*cough) and its brutal repression of its own people, then vote China above the the US, is, um...childish. I'm sure the US will calm down and grow up after this last adolescent gasp. I hope. China, on the other hand, will not be changing those policies anytime soon unless there is another revolution (hopefully of the same kind as The Velvet Revolution in Eastern Europe in the 90s)

I wonder how a recent Chinese immigrant in the US would feel about this poll? Probably disagree pretty voiciferously, I'd imagine.

Europeans, especially in business, have ALWAYS turned a blind eye to human rights abuses when it means there is a dollar to be made.

Mind you, the biggest complaint I have against Americans is that every Oktoberfest, they invade my favourite bars, drink huge amounts of beer and make total asses of themselves. Americans can't hold their liqour, and if they're between the ages of 19 to about 24, its much worse. I would love to see Canada pass a law banning any American under 25 from being served alcohol while in this country. That would well and truly rock. And I'd wouldn't lose my my favourite bar stool spots in October. WOOT!

Allright, what the US needs to do is act fast, even if Bush does have to serve out his term the US needs to elect better leaders ok, that means NO MORE CONSERVATIVES! And no more people like Bush who claim to be conservative but the only people who notice he isnt a conservative are the people who arent voting for him. Yes we need to sharpen up the voting crowd by educating the voters a lot better and by getting more people to vote. I mean we cant afford to elect leaders with IQ's lower than their height in inches. Who have coldest (so to speak) most revolting (not physically) administration. As Howard Dean put it, someone needs to stand up for the Republicans. I would vote for Howard Dean and I dont see why anyone with a fraction of a brain would not. Hes 10 times smarter than Bush can respect other peoples cultures. And Im sorry if the rednecks who voted in Bush cant respect other peoples cultures.
I'm not a "redneck" and I voted for President Bush.

Howard Dean is a fucking horse's ass! I wouldn't vote for that idiot if my fucking life depended on it!

We are facing a similar debate in Australia in the back rooms of government. Sure America has its problems, we all do, but China is worse than America IMHO. I think the real problem is that the world does not gold the same opinion of America as they used to. Before America was the place you wanted to be if you were foreign, a golden land of opportunity. Now it has fallen from such high esteem.

( shrug )

Eutrusca you seem to be pretty smart why did you vote for Bush?

I'm not a "redneck" and I voted for President Bush.

Howard Dean is a fucking horse's ass! I wouldn't vote for that idiot if my fucking life depended on it!

Why is he a horses ass?

I love america
but i dont love its leader,Bush

He has ruined the US image in the world,we used to be a great nation,we were friends with france and with Russia and with China etc etc

But Bush fucked it all up for the US now.Gas Prices up,we are losing the war,our image is ruined and he does nothing about it!

If Bush got impeached,i think the whole world whould cheer in joy
We are not "losing" the war in Iraq.

Oil prices are up for a wide variety of reasons. Blaming the President is nieve.

What about the fact that many of us couldn't give a shit whether we're friends with France, or what our "image" is in the world. China just increased trade ties with the US. I guess that means they hate us, yes?

We are not "losing" the war in Iraq.

Oil prices are up for a wide variety of reasons. Blaming the President is nieve.

What about the fact that many of us couldn't give a shit whether we're friends with France, or what our "image" is in the world. China just increased trade ties with the US. I guess that means they hate us, yes?

This is the problem with you people, you dont what anyone thinks of you, and thats all well and good until you have no friends. Yes, I do care what people think about me. I wouldnt start being a jackass on foreign turf.

I mean do you Eutrusca of the south ever think that you voted wrong. Or are blind in seeing that Bush is a bastard, btw, hes not a conservative.

We are facing a similar debate in Australia in the back rooms of government. Sure America has its problems, we all do, but China is worse than America IMHO. I think the real problem is that the world does not gold the same opinion of America as they used to. Before America was the place you wanted to be if you were foreign, a golden land of opportunity. Now it has fallen from such high esteem.

I agree. And in my opinion I still think America is the best country, as do most people about their home. But ever since the 20's it has declined.

Eutrusca you seem to be pretty smart why did you vote for Bush?
Primarily because Kerry was a lying sack of shit who betrayed all Vietnam veterans, and would have been a total disaster for the US.

I fail to see where President Bush has done a bad job as President. The economy is doing well, unempolyment is down, democracy once again has an advocate, and the politically correct crowd is out on its ass.

Has everything been hunky-dory? Certainly not. But neither do I see any reason, as some posters who should know better have advocated on here, to impeach President Bush.

The reason I prefer China to America is that China doesnt try to bulls**t its way out of its problems internationally, they just ignore everyone. America continues to claim it leads human rights, and then illegally inprism (sp?) people and torture them, the claim to be a peace loving country and then declare war on countries etc.

Atleast if they could admit they were a warmongering nation with crap human rights exp. in regard to foreigners then I might change my attitude towards them alittle

Btw, im not European, I am from NZ, who is currently negotiating a free trade deal with China

The reason I prefer China to America is that China doesnt try to bulls**t its way out of its problems internationally, they just ignore everyone. America continues to claim it leads human rights, and then illegally inprism (sp?) people and torture them, the claim to be a peace loving country and then declare war on countries etc.

Atleast if they could admit they were a warmongering nation with crap human rights exp. in regard to foreigners then I might change my attitude towards them alittle

Btw, im not European, I am from NZ, who is currently negotiating a free trade deal with China
Can you spell any better in Chinese than you can in English?

Yes it seems overseas even our European allies prefer China to the US. And who can blame them? I mean while China is under a brutal communist dictatorship, the US started fastfood! So while the Chinese govt. killed their own people the company's in the US might be blamed for adding to the worlds obesity rate.

It's the food. Everyone likes chinese food. :)

This is the problem with you people, you dont what anyone thinks of you, and thats all well and good until you have no friends. Yes, I do care what people think about me. I wouldnt start being a jackass on foreign turf.

I mean do you Eutrusca of the south ever think that you voted wrong. Or are blind in seeing that Bush is a bastard, btw, hes not a conservative.
Neither am I, for your information.

No, I never think that I voted "wrong."

No, I honestly don't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks about me. If they don't like me, they don't have to hang around with me. Somehow, I seem to have lots of friends.

At the international level, it would be nice to be liked abroad, but I don't consider it a necessity. Almost all nations operate on a self-interest basis. They could love the hell out of us and smile broadly as they slid the knife in.

I hate the US because you guys (undirected) as tourists are loud-mouth gaping douches who clog our streets, dress inappropriately for our theatre and make a general nuisence of yourselves..

We also fund your economy :)
But I must admit, we as american, in general, do tend to be ignorant and inconsiderate. I hate tourists, stupid stereotypical people

"It depends on your view...

However, it would seem so because of the general opinion of the world regarding the USA's foreign policy."

This is one Canadian thinking their own opinion is that of the world, and that they are the voice of the world, and are all knowing of the world's view on America's foreign policy.... While I respect your opinion by all means, don't fail to mention that it is just that.... your personal opinion. As far as the europeans preferring China over the U.S. aren't these the same bunch that wanted Libya on the Human Rights Council??? Doesn't this void their opinion of all validity?

Also, do you have a source? I would like to see this study.. Again, not trying to be disrespectful to the original author, just sharing my personal opinion...

Have you looked at the news today?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/06/23/poll.america.ap/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4124164.stm
http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=14e4761e-d4d9-4592-ae3e-384adcf6703a&page=2
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8324290/
.. you get the idea

I have to say while China's people are slowly gaining rights, I still think American's are slowly either losing rights, or not gaining any. Patriot act anyone? And I agree with what the poeple in the study say, it's not the American people, it's their government.

We also fund your economy :)
France also funds your economy, as does Saudi Arabia. Yet you seem to be whining about those peoples all the time.

Another Anti American story if you ask me. I personally could give a rats ass at what most europeans think. The stereo typical American is just that. A stereotype that was defined by the Europeans. I mean we have loud mouth people. So do the Europeans(Chirac,Schroeder etc..). We have underdressed people running around. These people are on vacation for god sakes. No worse than the European speedo wearer on the Florida beach. The fat American misnomer. I always love and laugh at that one. Hey Europe, look around. Cause you guys are fat slobs too. Damn lived in England for awhile. Realised where the American fat gene came from. So we are much alike in many ways. I always look at Europeans badmouthing America as the same as someone badmouthing a family member. Because most Americans are of some European decent. So quit trying to talk bad about family. It just makes you look jealous and petty.

PS Chinese are evil yellow people. Dont try to snuggle to close to them! J/k

The reason I prefer China to America is that China doesnt try to bulls**t its way out of its problems internationally, they just ignore everyone. America continues to claim it leads human rights, and then illegally inprism (sp?) people and torture them, the claim to be a peace loving country and then declare war on countries etc.

Atleast if they could admit they were a warmongering nation with crap human rights exp. in regard to foreigners then I might change my attitude towards them alittle

Btw, im not European, I am from NZ, who is currently negotiating a free trade deal with China

So you prefer a nation that has the human rights of most 3rd-world nations, and doesn't care what foreigners think of it... over a nation with some of the highest human rights standards in the UN, and refuses to call what it at least believes to be constructive efforts atrocities?

Furthermore, examples you are using are hardly contradictory. The "torture" you're referring to is probably the prison scandal we've heard so much about. Well, those soldiers were court-martialed, and the government apologized for it. In China, the government employs torturers.

There's no point in blowing your points out of proportion; it weakens your argument. America is hardly warmongering. It is a powerful country with the world's largest, most advanced, and well-funded military, however, and an unseen fist came out of nowhere and gave it a black eye, then disappeared again. This leaves the economic/military giant with its face and pride both bruised, and it overstepped its bounds in more than once instance in its anger and drive to set things right. In the world political perspective, this is hardly a warmongering characteristic.

And on a final note, I do disagree with the initial reasons for America's invasion of Iraq, but I can't really complain about the military removing a ruthless dictator who regularly gassed minority groups he wasn't particularly fond of. I mean, the man rose in the ranks of the Ba'athist regime as a torturer. Any shaky democratic government attempt made in Iraq would be an improvement from what they had- and yes, the invasion cost a few hundred (or thousand, depending on who you ask) civilian lives to set up, but that's still far below Saddam's usual kill count.

An international trade war is looming between the US and China because China exports loads into the US, taking jobs away from Americans. Washington accuses China of manipulating exchange rates and gaining an advantage over Sino-American trade. "All we want is fair trade", Washington says.


HOWEVER


the United States subsidises her agriculture businesses and creates food surpluses. They get rid of it by selling it below cost to African countries. "Wow, nice! We're giving food to poor countries!" But the reality is that this strips African farmers of their domestic AND world markets at the same time, and this not only takes away jobs from Africans, but also social stability.

Before you go accusing somebody of "unfair trade", America, look at your hypocritical attitudes.

*snorts in contempt*

There are definate reason for why Europe doesn't like the US and is leaning towards China.

Many European countries, primarily the French, have began to embrace "multipolarism" - the notion that the world would be better off with several superpowers - each creating a balnce to the other. They see China's population and huge economic growth (9% annually) as the obvious choice to counteract American hegemony.

The reason for this is the major conflict of national interests between America and Europe. Iraq was a big one but wasn't the only one. This rift became apparent after the fall of the USSR, when the strong need for unity was no longer a central issue.

Furthermore, the notion of multipolarism, stems directly for the need of Europe to "stem" the American "tide". Than initself tends to worsen relations because it's seen as hostile - passive aggressive at best. Not only that but it places its faith on another country who's government resembles Fascist Italy (socialist oligarchy). The ideology of the US and China are diametrically opposed. As China blossoms and its foreign policy becomes more pronounced and pervasive and given its ideological differences with the US, I see a lot of tension and uneasy peace. Maybe not so much as a Cold War but tension nonetheless.

China, like any world power will begin to assert itself on the national stage, first locally (Vietnam, Korea, Tajikstan, Kyrgizstan, Pakistan, and Russia) and then farther away from it's shores - places like Australia, Africa, and the Middle East. Just because China's foreign policy isn't as invasive does not mean that it will remain that way in the future, especially as it gains more power and prestige, in fact almost the opposite is gauranteed.

Another reason for America to earh European animosity is Bush's "America First" policy. Europe has an entirely different mindset than a "nation first" policy primarily because each European country is so dependent on the rest of the European countries that any such policy would ultimately fail in that region. Therefore, the Europeans have to resort to working together, and quite closely, thus the strengthening EU (although weakened by France's vote against the new constitution).

America's policy, is perfect for America though. Why should it not be of our government's interest to care for its citizens more than anyone else's? As a result protecting American interests has yielded many European objections - the Kyoto Treaty being one.

It's very simple. China's international policy is isolationist, while the US's international policy is expansionist. China minds its own business and oppresses its people, while the US butts its nose into everyone else's business. People don't really care, truly, honestly, what China does to its own people so long as they don't interfere with their lives.

Another reason for America to earh European animosity is Bush's "America First" policy. Europe has an entirely different mindset than a "nation first" policy primarily because each European country is so dependent on the rest of the European countries that any such policy would ultimately fail in that region.
That, and the fairly important fact that "nation first" politics have nearly destroyed the place about 200 times.

I don't see why Americans are so pissed about this, I mean, come on, you trample the UN charter with the invasion of Iraq, give Europe the finger politcally many times with Prezident Dubya's admistration, and now your complaining how Europe is growing distant from the USA?
Capitalism doesn't care how bad the regime is in power, the gubernational coporations don't give a rats' ass about human rights quite frankly, if theres money, thats enough for them. And China has it.

Calling China "Communist" now would be like calling the Nazis democractic.


See, I'm in an odd posistion, I'm a citizen of the USA and the EU. :)

It's very simple. China's international policy is isolationist, while the US's international policy is expansionist. China minds its own business and oppresses its people, while the US butts its nose into everyone else's business. People don't really care, truly, honestly, what China does to its own people so long as they don't interfere with their lives

Not true. In fact, China couldn't be any farther from isolationist. It want as much foreign investment as possible. It's economy wouldn't have risen by 9% last year nor would China have wanted to be in the WTO and host the 2008 Olympic games if it was isolationist.

China's weak foreign policy came from its own economic and military weakness. As China is growing, we are seeing that change as now China plays a greater role in European and American politics than ever before.

I think it's utterly realistic for China to maintain it's current foreign policy twenty years from now when it has indeed grown to superpower strength. Even five to ten years down the round expect China to have a dramatic change. Watch as its influence grows in OPEC and Southeast Asia as its produces AND consumes more goods and oil.

I don't see how that could be any worse though than what we currently have.
Now the US has no one to keep in check. Iraq has shown that when it comes down to it, the US population cannot/will not meaningfully oppose a war of aggression if fed the right bullshit.
With the Democrats being ridiculed everywhere, we're only gonna be blessed with more republican presidents, who'll more and more rely on the Christian Right and on the Neocons. And those two elements make for a dangerous combination.
So I say: get China up to scratch as fast as possible so they can indeed balance out the US. No one will be worse off, but neither could just start attacking people like that. The good thing about the Cold War was that it would always remain cold, there was no real chance anything bad could happen.

I'm Chinese and I think I know why.

@The Government
Communism has goods and bads, like Democracy. But having a leader that will be the leader is good because if you get along with the leader easily, you'll be with them for a long time because the leader will be the leader of China for life.

@The Economy
China's booming economy with the U.S. is beneficial. Meaning that they benefit by earning lots of money. Countries want to ally with a booming economic ally so that they can benefit as well.

@The Support
China, in the world's population, is 1/5 of the world's population. Due to their population, they have a enormous military... like 300 million soldiers. If countries settle into conflicts and require Neutral Peacekeepers, they'd probably ask their loyal ally, China. Plus, China puts alot of fundings in their defence, so if the US invades some country that is allied with China, there is a good chance that China will participate in the war.

@The Food
U.S. has fastfood like China, McDonalds and Burger King are also in China, but due to regular Chinese Food Standards, the food must be reduced to a smaller amount of fat or else the Standards will be hurt and the restaurant must be closed down. U.S. however has no food standard for fastfood, it is a country of freedom in which no one shall set a food standard unless the voters vote for it.

@The Technologies
The U.S. has outdated technology compared to Hong Kong. Hong Kong has 15 minute processing photos, while the U.S. has 1 hour. Hong Kong has technology so well, a music radio can eavesdrop any message from the U.S. Military across the Pacific. The Internet Technologies are also advanced. Everyone has Fiber Optics for their internet. Other countries might ally with China for their technologies... Especially their nuclear technology, which have been given to N Korea and some to Russia.

As a Chinese American whose family fled from the brutality and oppression of communist China, I just have one thing to say.

Those of you who support China over the US are a bunch of fucking IDIOTS.

It always surprises me how people born to the wealth and luxury of First World nations can be so supportive of brutal dictatorships and totalitarian regimes who systematically murder their own people, all the while cursing a nation who is trying to bring stability and freedom to the oppressed.

I guess living in a country where you aren't afraid everyday, without the threat of uniformed thugs storming your house and killing your family looming over your heads, has left you all soft in the brain.

My family have lost a lot of its members because of those bastards in Beijing, and it sickens me when people, many of whom have never felt the chains of oppression, support these murderous beasts.

@The Technologies...
Oh, you're gonna take some beating for that one...the Americans don't like to be told that kind of thing.
:D

-snip-
Now, now, calm down. We can't overthrow your Government and install one you would like better. Go tell the President, or the media.
Exiles usually have a rather biased view about things (-like those Iraqis...).

Lets face it China kicks ass. Some people may talk about "ancient cultures" amd "rich histories", but we all know the real reasons why it (or does the pronoun for China have a gender, I'm to lazy to find out) will win every popularity contest it ever enters.
The Chinese gave the world Evil Cat, Egg rolls, Fu Manchu mustaches, and fireworks. And really, what more do you need in life?

Again, PRC China is not Communist, what the Chinese "Communist" Party calls their economic system now is "Market Socialism", which is a bullshit term for capitalism. They are rapidly reducing a public state run sector into a private sector controlled by western corporations.

Back in Maoist days, it was offically "Socialist" (I don't agree with this label either as a true representation).

Currently, China uses nationalism (nationalism is a big enemy of Communism, shows how hypocritical the CCP is) to evoke support from its people, similarly, the CCP finally had to face the fact that China quite frankly was the worst place to start a proletarian revolution (the obvious fact being that there was no developed proletariat in China at the time) and had to move back to limited, or now almost free market capitalism to stay in power and survive.

The incident at Tiamenn Square was an other show of how un-Communist the CCP is. The students there, the last song they sung before being mass murdered by the PLA was "The Internationale"; the anthem of the international Communist/Socialist/workers' movement.

China is nothing more than a authoritarian capitalist party state with strong doses of nationalism, that will soon join the imperialist games of the Western capitalists. I will rejoice the day the CCP finally falls from power.

As a Chinese American whose family fled from the brutality and oppression of communist China, I just have one thing to say.

Those of you who support China over the US are a bunch of fucking IDIOTS.

It always surprises me how people born to the wealth and luxury of First World nations can be so supportive of brutal dictatorships and totalitarian regimes who systematically murder their own people, all the while cursing a nation who is trying to bring stability and freedom to the oppressed.

I guess living in a country where you aren't afraid everyday, without the threat of uniformed thugs storming your house and killing your family looming over your heads, has left you all soft in the brain.

My family have lost a lot of its members because of those bastards in Beijing, and it sickens me when people, many of whom have never felt the chains of oppression, support these murderous beasts.

My family fled to US because of the brutality of CHAIRMAN MAO. Now that China's been more successful, less brutality has been made. Chairman Mao made people worship him and say as he wishes them to say. China's grown after Chairman Mao's age. Right now, China's Communist Leader only wants people to follow the laws and thats it.

Right now, is there any brutality in China?

As a Chinese American whose family fled from the brutality and oppression of communist China, I just have one thing to say.

Those of you who support China over the US are a bunch of fucking IDIOTS.

It always surprises me how people born to the wealth and luxury of First World nations can be so supportive of brutal dictatorships and totalitarian regimes who systematically murder their own people, all the while cursing a nation who is trying to bring stability and freedom to the oppressed.

I guess living in a country where you aren't afraid everyday, without the threat of uniformed thugs storming your house and killing your family looming over your heads, has left you all soft in the brain.

My family have lost a lot of its members because of those bastards in Beijing, and it sickens me when people, many of whom have never felt the chains of oppression, support these murderous beasts.

I too come from a family that escaped a communist dictatorship and they have suffered as much. My grandfather died in a communist labor camp and my parent's lives were threatened for wanting democracy.

The good thing about the Cold War was that it would always remain cold, there was no real chance anything bad could happen.

Once again, animosity stemming from different national interests. It's amazing how Saddam's dictatorial regime is downplayed by European powers.

As far as the cold war being good, I believe that is overzealous idealism. In 1960 the world almost ended in nuclear holocaust. I believe in any future Cold Wars the stakes will be much higher, especially if you read about Hubbert's Peak and throw Taiwan into the mix.

I dont like the U.S. much. They invaded Iraq and accused them for having WMDs. Then they said that Iraq w/WMDs = Threat. How can Iraq become a threat to the U.S. when they're so far away?

As far as the cold war being good, I believe that is overzealous idealism. In 1960 the world almost ended in nuclear holocaust. I believe in any future Cold Wars the stakes will be much higher, especially if you read about Hubbert's Peak and throw Taiwan into the mix.
I credit all sides with a bit of rationality.
In the 1960s neither side was interested in blowing itself up, just as it wouldn't be today. That's why they always worked so hard to find a solution. That'll be even easier these days because communication is even easier.
Taiwan isn't actually interested in being independent as much as you think (I don't think they should be called Taiwan, they're a Chinese province). As China modernises, and the Nationalists from Kai-Chek's country die out, they'll join again. No worries there. The only issue is when the US decides that that somehow threatens their interests.

Yeah, China's economy went up 9% last year. That sounds great, until you realize that it adds up to about 45 cents.

...it adds up to about 45 cents.
:confused:

Plus the Japanese conflict. Nanjing Massacre and their past to China. Japan has changed history textbooks about Nanjing Massacre in China, which has made citizens in China outraged. China would probably be the one invading Japan, because Japan knows if they invade China, U.S. will start having suspicion.

I dont like the U.S. much. They invaded Iraq and accused them for having WMDs. Then they said that Iraq w/WMDs = Threat. How can Iraq become a threat to the U.S. when they're so far away?

People like you tend to oversimplify things to an absurd level. You always have to skim beneath the surface. The WMD notion was primarily a tool to get the public to support the war. I believe certain administrators believed in that threat or the potential of it to transform into a threat down the road but there are many motives for doing something, not all of them may be present, but I degress.

Why do you support a country that has few rights and has been known to torture and kill dissidents? Tianemen Square happened well after the time of Moa, some 16 years ago. Have things improved for the people? Economically yes - for some. Politically? I think the sanctions that resulted from Tianemen Square is what's really preventing China from cracking down.

Taiwan isn't actually interested in being independent as much as you think (I don't think they should be called Taiwan, they're a Chinese province). As China modernises, and the Nationalists from Kai-Chek's country die out, they'll join again. No worries there. The only issue is when the US decides that that somehow threatens their interests.

I agree with you about Taiwan. I think they'll move towards reunification. I wouldnt go so far as to classify them as a Chinese province considering the mainland has had no control since 1949, perhaps none since before that even.

People like you tend to oversimplify things to an absurd level. You always have to skim beneath the surface. The WMD notion was primarily a tool to get the public to support the war. I believe certain administrators believed in that threat or the potential of it to transform into a threat down the road but there are many motives for doing something, not all of them may be present, but I degress.

Why do you support a country that has few rights and has been known to torture and kill dissidents? Tianemen Square happened well after the time of Moa, some 16 years ago. Have things improved for the people? Economically yes - for some. Politically? I think the sanctions that resulted from Tianemen Square is what's really preventing China from cracking down.

Tiananmen Square is a place where protesters protested for freedom and democracy because they suffered during Mao's age. My dad was in with them, but did not get hurt. The protest had no idea that the China's Government were experiencing a change in their political party. They killed the Chinese protesters because they harmed the tourism and got too loud outside for the Political Switch Meetings.

<snip>
@The Technologies
The U.S. has outdated technology compared to Hong Kong. Hong Kong has 15 minute processing photos, while the U.S. has 1 hour.
<snip>
Oh dear god, how could we have let it get this far? Its all over now, the Chinese government is spreading, spreading faster than their pictures are developing. We thought that they were harmless, "Oh why would anyone want to have their photos that fast? With one hour you can go get some other errands done."
<<Camera closes in on face>>
We were so blind. Our hubris kept us from seeing the danger. Sure, they may have fast pictures faster, but we have Loreena McKennitt. We were wrong (It turns out she is Canadian). And then, the Chinese unleashed their greatest weapon. The LX-825 which not only produced fully developed photos, it would secretly read your mind, and using crazy micromindwaves it copied the pictures to its harddrive and have finished developing by the time you had arrived at the store.
<<Slow pan across vacation photos>>
Its only a matter of time now. LX-825A3 is in development. Not only does it develop the photos before you arrive, but it will then send the pictures into the past and mail them to your house before you have even taken them. Of course, it still gets the address wrong and instead sends the pictures to whomever is most likely to use them to blackmail you.

The Future is now, the PhotoWars were over before they even began. Now all bow before the Chinese government, or have to wait for a whole extra 45 minutes to get their pictures.
There is no hope. But there is curry, and that is almost the same thing, provided you are drunk off your ass.

A few months ago, China and Taiwan were about to go to war. China prepared military exercises for the war with Taiwan. Taiwan, who bought useful weapons from US, was afraid of a nuclear attack and asked to cancel the showdown.

Oh dear god, how could we have let it get this far? Its all over now, the Chinese government is spreading, spreading faster than their pictures are developing. We thought that they were harmless, "Oh why would anyone want to have their photos that fast? With one hour you can go get some other errands done."
<<Camera closes in on face>>
We were so blind. Our hubris kept us from seeing the danger. Sure, they may have fast pictures faster, but we have Loreena McKennitt. We were wrong (It turns out she is Canadian). And then, the Chinese unleashed their greatest weapon. The LX-825 which not only produced fully developed photos, it would secretly read your mind, and using crazy micromindwaves it copied the pictures to its harddrive and have finished developing by the time you had arrived at the store.
<<Slow pan across vacation photos>>
Its only a matter of time now. LX-825A3 is in development. Not only does it develop the photos before you arrive, but it will then send the pictures into the past and mail them to your house before you have even taken them. Of course, it still gets the address wrong and instead sends the pictures to whomever is most likely to use them to blackmail you.

The Future is now, the PhotoWars were over before they even began. Now all bow before the Chinese government, or have to wait for a whole extra 45 minutes to get their pictures.
There is no hope. But there is curry, and that is almost the same thing, provided you are drunk off your ass.

I'm not talking about thr government. I'm talking about the reasons why European countries would ally with China.

A few months ago, China and Taiwan were about to go to war...
Saber Rattling, no more. China isn't interested in fighting a war now, especially one that would draw the Americans in.
Think of the money they'd lose. They need that money to modernise the country. It's the only hope of the party to stay in power.

I'm not talking about thr government. I'm talking about the reasons why European countries would ally with China.
And I'm being an ass. Anyway, it is ridiculous to take a 45-minute photo difference into consideration on anything (accept of course, for which localish photo place you take your business to). That is the stupidest thing to rate countries on since sliced bread (amount per capita).

Tiananmen Square is a place where protesters protested for freedom and democracy because they suffered during Mao's age. My dad was in with them, but did not get hurt. The protest had no idea that the China's Government were experiencing a change in their political party. They killed the Chinese protesters because they harmed the tourism and got too loud outside for the Political Switch Meetings.

In other words you are confirming what I said - yet you are still pro-china. Hmm... are you sure its not intense ethnic pride that is fueling you, perhaps blinding you to the country's lows?

In other words you are confirming what I said - yet you are still pro-china. Hmm... are you sure its not intense ethnic pride that is fueling you, perhaps blinding you to the country's lows?

I am Pro-China and a Proud Communist. I just hated Chairman Mao's decisions because he killed my grandpa's dad and 3 brothers, my grandma's father and 2 sisters.

Excellent reasons to be pro communist and pro Chinese. Interesting to note that your dad was almost killed by the party you so love.

And I'm being an ass. Anyway, it is ridiculous to take a 45-minute photo difference into consideration on anything (accept of course, for which localish photo place you take your business to). That is the stupidest thing to rate countries on since sliced bread (amount per capita).


I'm just saying that China has a more advanced technologies than US. Thats why European countries want to ally with China, to get useful technologies.

Excellent reasons to be pro communist and pro Chinese. Interesting to note that your dad was almost killed by the party you so love.

Yes. I love Communism. But not the decisions that the Tiananmen Square incident or Mao's. The rest I love.

There are definate reason for why Europe doesn't like the US and is leaning towards China.

Many European countries, primarily the French, have began to embrace "multipolarism" - the notion that the world would be better off with several superpowers - each creating a balnce to the other. They see China's population and huge economic growth (9% annually) as the obvious choice to counteract American hegemony.

The reason for this is the major conflict of national interests between America and Europe. Iraq was a big one but wasn't the only one. This rift became apparent after the fall of the USSR, when the strong need for unity was no longer a central issue.

Furthermore, the notion of multipolarism, stems directly for the need of Europe to "stem" the American "tide". Than initself tends to worsen relations because it's seen as hostile - passive aggressive at best. Not only that but it places its faith on another country who's government resembles Fascist Italy (socialist oligarchy). The ideology of the US and China are diametrically opposed. As China blossoms and its foreign policy becomes more pronounced and pervasive and given its ideological differences with the US, I see a lot of tension and uneasy peace. Maybe not so much as a Cold War but tension nonetheless.

China, like any world power will begin to assert itself on the national stage, first locally (Vietnam, Korea, Tajikstan, Kyrgizstan, Pakistan, and Russia) and then farther away from it's shores - places like Australia, Africa, and the Middle East. Just because China's foreign policy isn't as invasive does not mean that it will remain that way in the future, especially as it gains more power and prestige, in fact almost the opposite is gauranteed.

Another reason for America to earh European animosity is Bush's "America First" policy. Europe has an entirely different mindset than a "nation first" policy primarily because each European country is so dependent on the rest of the European countries that any such policy would ultimately fail in that region. Therefore, the Europeans have to resort to working together, and quite closely, thus the strengthening EU (although weakened by France's vote against the new constitution).

America's policy, is perfect for America though. Why should it not be of our government's interest to care for its citizens more than anyone else's? As a result protecting American interests has yielded many European objections - the Kyoto Treaty being one.

Very good political assessment. The Chinese sphere is already expanding with Maoist rebels entering southeast asia. The other logical next targets would be Taiwan and Central Asia.

Very good political assessment. The Chinese sphere is already expanding with Maoist rebels entering southeast asia. The other logical next targets would be Taiwan and Central Asia.

Who are Maoist Rebels. I'm not familiar of whats their cause and how they get their supplies. All I know that Maoist are people who devoted their lives and worship Chairman Mao.

Again, PRC China is not Communist, what the Chinese "Communist" Party calls their economic system now is "Market Socialism", which is a bullshit term for capitalism. They are rapidly reducing a public state run sector into a private sector controlled by western corporations.

Back in Maoist days, it was offically "Socialist" (I don't agree with this label either as a true representation).

Currently, China uses nationalism (nationalism is a big enemy of Communism, shows how hypocritical the CCP is) to evoke support from its people, similarly, the CCP finally had to face the fact that China quite frankly was the worst place to start a proletarian revolution (the obvious fact being that there was no developed proletariat in China at the time) and had to move back to limited, or now almost free market capitalism to stay in power and survive.

The incident at Tiamenn Square was an other show of how un-Communist the CCP is. The students there, the last song they sung before being mass murdered by the PLA was "The Internationale"; the anthem of the international Communist/Socialist/workers' movement.

China is nothing more than a authoritarian capitalist party state with strong doses of nationalism, that will soon join the imperialist games of the Western capitalists. I will rejoice the day the CCP finally falls from power.

Here, here! My thoughts exactly.

Taiwan isn't actually interested in being independent as much as you think (I don't think they should be called Taiwan, they're a Chinese province). As China modernises, and the Nationalists from Kai-Chek's country die out, they'll join again. No worries there. The only issue is when the US decides that that somehow threatens their interests.
That's an... interesting viewpoint. Currently the KMP is the minority party is and making nice with the CCP, they are the ones who support the notion that Taiwan is a part of China (actually, they still claim to be the legit goverment of China).

It's more the native population of Taiwan (which the KMP invaded and surpressed) who is claiming independance from the mainland. And the issue is a lot hotter than you give it credit for.

Plus the Japanese conflict. Nanjing Massacre and their past to China. Japan has changed history textbooks about Nanjing Massacre in China, which has made citizens in China outraged. China would probably be the one invading Japan, because Japan knows if they invade China, U.S. will start having suspicion.
Um... what does that have to do with anything? Not to mention that China wouldn't dare attack Japan, not only does Japan have enough firepower on its own to hurt China, but it's a bad idea to attack a nation where so many US troops are. America tends to be extream in its displeasure. ;)

I credit all sides with a bit of rationality.
In the 1960s neither side was interested in blowing itself up, just as it wouldn't be today. That's why they always worked so hard to find a solution. That'll be even easier these days because communication is even easier.
Taiwan isn't actually interested in being independent as much as you think (I don't think they should be called Taiwan, they're a Chinese province). As China modernises, and the Nationalists from Kai-Chek's country die out, they'll join again. No worries there. The only issue is when the US decides that that somehow threatens their interests.

It wasn't a question of what the mutual desires of the two sides were. The truth was, during the Cold War, there were direct military showdowns in which the both sides had battlefield nukes. And Soviet nukes weren't like American, there was no complicated 3-stage decryption code needed to fire the thing, the operator just pressed a little red button.

On top of that, during the Cuban Missile Crisis a Soviet SAM shot down an American U2 in defiance of orders. Imagine trigger-happy troops armed with nuclear weapons and you see just how precarious things were. At no point during heightened tensions was the situation under control.

Who are Maoist Rebels. I'm not familiar of whats their cause and how they get their supplies. All I know that Maoist are people who devoted their lives and worship Chairman Mao.

They're foreign guerillas armed by the Chinese government who sneak back into their native countries to destabilize them. Their strategy is to provoke their country's government into cracking down on the populous, thereby creating resentment and turning the people against it to create a power vacuum.

The Nepalese monarchy is one that's on the verge of collapse.

There is also a growing Maoist movement in India, an other fast growing economy.

This may prove interesting.

Now, now, calm down. We can't overthrow your Government and install one you would like better. Go tell the President, or the media.
Exiles usually have a rather biased view about things (-like those Iraqis...).

Oh yes, please excuse me for being "biased." Having your family and neighbors shot to death in front of you tends to do that.

Oh yes, please excuse me for being "biased." Having your family and neighbors shot to death in front of you tends to do that.

So you are saying you witnessed it? Or are you basing it on what you were told?

So you are saying you witnessed it? Or are you basing it on what you were told?

Both. I was told by my grandfather and uncle about the attrocities of the Chinese government, and the fates of those who didn't conform to the popular beliefs.

Unfortunately, when my family fled they went to the Philippines, which was then taken over by its own tyrannical dictator: Ferdinand Marcos. My father's side was political enemies of the dictator, which was not a good thing to be after he declared Marshall Law. I witnessed my uncle, a Roman Catholic priest, get shot to death by police for speaking ill of the government. He was the first dead body I've ever seen. To date, I have seen six. Two of them were relatives.

I hope that answers your question.

Oh yes, please excuse me for being "biased." Having your family and neighbors shot to death in front of you tends to do that.
I know. My grandpa told me his experience before he died from lung cancer. But this isnt to blame the Communist. We blame Chairman Mao's Decisions.

Both. I was told by my grandfather and uncle about the attrocities of the Chinese government, and the fates of those who didn't conform to the popular beliefs.

Unfortunately, when my family fled they went to the Philippines, which was then taken over by its own tyrannical dictator: Ferdinand Marcos. My father's side was political enemies of the dictator, which was not a good thing to be after he declared Marshall Law. I witnessed my uncle, a Roman Catholic priest, get shot to death by police for speaking ill of the government. He was the first dead body I've ever seen. To date, I have seen six. Two of them were relatives.

I hope that answers your question.

Hmmm, a closely as I can determine, this is the chain of events that you have explained based on locations.

China: Information primarily from relatives regarding atrocities. No actual people you met mentioned. Assumed no loss afflicted directly to you or your family (Please correct if wrong).

Phillippines: Personal witnessing of police execution of direct relative.

Forgive me if this seems obvious, but wouldn't it seem that your actual issue would be against the then Phillipines government rather than China's ruling party? At least in accordance to your statement of witnessing the executions of your neighbors and relatives.

And Hawaiian Islands has the right of it. If memory serves, the situation in China improved dramatically once Chairman Mao was removed.

I love america
but i dont love its leader,Bush

He has ruined the US image in the world,we used to be a great nation,we were friends with france and with Russia and with China etc etc

But Bush fucked it all up for the US now.Gas Prices up,we are losing the war,our image is ruined and he does nothing about it!

If Bush got impeached,i think the whole world whould cheer in joy
A Genealogy of the Bush Family

Granpa Bush
A Nazi offshore Banker who embezled the money entrusted him

Papa Bush
A CIA Director and Industry investor with a great PR image, especially to Arabs, who are among his best firends; the Bin Ladin family foremost!

Baby Bush
A screw-up and general failiure. He was stoned all through college, failed in his military service to his country, bankrupted every single business he ever owned. It only went good for him when he elected to fund his businesses from illicit activities.
Somehow in the middle of it all he became The President of the United States of America, and after failing misserably at this office (bunkrupted the Federal Treasury, started wars all over and sanctioned illicit deeds in his own administration) he was re-elected for punishment!

Now do you think that this man will EVER be indicted for his failiures? Or that it will make any damn difference? (Don't tire your brain, it's a philosophical question!)

China is a one-party state, ruled by an authoritian capitalist regime. If you look at the economic structure it is generally a free-market economy.

Agreed, howver, I would say that there is a division opening up between the urban and rural sections of China.

In the city, Chinese people are getting richer, but are not able to vote, however, when the Chinese government is challenged on this, they say "Freedom does not matter when you are rich" and "To be rich is glorious."

On the other hand, the rural workers and families have basic food, and appaling working conditions, and have been abandoned from any form of social welfare.

I'm hoping that things will be alright in China, but it has swung from stalinism to rabid capitalism which is cut throat, and by doing this, China are now beating America at the capitalism 'game'.

The way things are going with China, they will be the next superpower, and America will give way little by little.

The British Empire's and France's last major imperial military actions ended in 1956, when after invading Egypt, the new superpower on the block, America, told them to get out. It was the changing of the superpower guard, it was a watershed for the old, the beginning of the inheritors.

That time will probably come again, but this time, America will be the one giving way to a new power.

If China has imperial ambitions, then it will be China who will be disliked, and perhaps there will be nationalistic Chinese people coming on the forums and boasting about their country and how they don't need no friends and they are the best country in the world, and the rest of us will lambast them for their foreign policy, and comparing them to Nazis and etc.

Already, whilst I was recently on holiday, there was some Chinese men who were near us who were very arrogant indeed. They were self assured. Perhaps they know their country is rising through the ranks.

Of course, this arrogance can not be associated with all Chinese people.

In such a case, the superpowers will change, but the politics of them will probably not.

I like America more than China.

Already, whilst I was recently on holiday, there was some Chinese men who were near us who were very arrogant indeed. They were self assured. Perhaps they know their country is rising through the ranks.

Of course, this arrogance can not be associated with all Chinese people.

I have to say that this is true. As some of you may know Chinese tourism in Hong Kong has boomed since 2003 because Chinese citizens can travel here with far less government restrictions than before. While the money they bring in is appreciated, they can't just tour Hong Kong thinking it's "just another Chinese city". It's not - by a lot. Hong Kongers have long sinced stopped spitting on the streets, smoking while eating and rushing into trains like there's no tomorrow by a lot. Then again, not all Chinese tourists are like this. Many of them are just clueless. But the thought of so many Mainlanders rolling in Hong Kong - it's quite freaky...

Depends on how they define China, as China is merely a nation and an very old, continuous civilization. Many people find faults within the government of China (at least, on mainland China), but I feel that China (as a nation, not a government) itself is a great country.

Precisley.

Plus, Chinese are generally thought of as nice, well behaved and cheerful people. China gets a big bonus because of it's great culture, history and people. Sure, it's government sucks, but the rest is okay.

Same goes for the US.

Believe it or not, most people do like you, we just don't like your government and some aspects of your culture. And the way a lot of Americans behave surely doesn't help. Just look around in the forums. I've personally never seen a place with so much bigots, war-lovers and loud-mouthed aggressive conservatives who neither respect OR give a damn about everyone's else feelings or opinions.

And one might also point out that the US's reputation has increased in comparsion to last year.

Primarily because Kerry was a lying sack of shit who betrayed all Vietnam veterans, and would have been a total disaster for the US.

I fail to see where President Bush has done a bad job as President. The economy is doing well, unempolyment is down, democracy once again has an advocate, and the politically correct crowd is out on its ass.

Has everything been hunky-dory? Certainly not. But neither do I see any reason, as some posters who should know better have advocated on here, to impeach President Bush.

Ok, now look at the trade defecit.

Bush ignores all reason and information. He seems to good in the sence of covering stuff up though, Ill give you that. Oh and I love his consistincy in being a hipocrite. He calls himself a conservative and wants to stay out of public affairs. But than when Terri Shiavo comes into play, he interferes. That brought Bush down from 51% popularity to 45%. Funny what about everyone else? did they not get it. Or did they like him more because it shows he has strong "Morals."

Precisley.

Plus, Chinese are generally thought of as nice, well behaved and cheerful people. China gets a big bonus because of it's great culture, history and people. Sure, it's government sucks, but the rest is okay.

Same goes for the US.

Believe it or not, most people do like you, we just don't like your government and some aspects of your culture. And the way a lot of Americans behave surely doesn't help. Just look around in the forums. I've personally never seen a place with so much bigots, war-lovers and loud-mouthed aggressive conservatives who neither respect OR give a damn about everyone's else feelings or opinions.

And one might also point out that the US's reputation has increased in comparsion to last year.

Couldn't agree more. Though, if you wanna see a place that's full of dickhead conservatives (not all conservatives are dickheads --- these guys are, however), go to the Aces High forums. What assholes.

And I will add that I don't like a good deal of people in my state. It's their political views and the attitudes and accents that go with them. Disgusting.

Hmmm, a closely as I can determine, this is the chain of events that you have explained based on locations.

China: Information primarily from relatives regarding atrocities. No actual people you met mentioned. Assumed no loss afflicted directly to you or your family (Please correct if wrong).

Phillippines: Personal witnessing of police execution of direct relative.

Forgive me if this seems obvious, but wouldn't it seem that your actual issue would be against the then Phillipines government rather than China's ruling party? At least in accordance to your statement of witnessing the executions of your neighbors and relatives.

And Hawaiian Islands has the right of it. If memory serves, the situation in China improved dramatically once Chairman Mao was removed.

Corruption and brutality by any other name still smells like horse shit.

A tyrant is a tyrant, no matter what nation you're in. Not suffering from a repressive regime, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Also, if you think that Today's China is so free that you can write a letter to a newspaper critisizing the government and NOT get arrested, then you are deluding yourself.

Who is better, China or the US?
No one is better.

The United States is a corporate oligarchy disguised as a 'democracy' (in reality, the same two parties, with the exact same policies, have been alternating power for the last 100 years),and in which a different ideological position was never allowed to rise (thanks to inmense corporate 'donations', to the Republicans and to the Democrats). Also, the USA have been pursuing imperialist policies almost since they begun to exist as a nation. (No! You were never isolationist!)
Under this imperialist expansionism, nations were invaded (Hawaii, for example, which at the time had its own king and constitution, Iraq, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Haiti, etc.) and brutal dictatorships and coup d'etats were supported with the sole aim of defending USA's comercial interests (Pinochet in Chile, Videla in Argentina, the shah in Persia, somoza in Nicaragua, most latin american cold war regimes, marcos in the Philippines, just to give a few examples).
The USA is also a country in which political activists that challenge the statu quo are condemnded to death penalty under false pretences (Mumia Abu-Jabal, Leonard Peltier, etc.), a country that routinely violates international law (The US, for example, hasn't ratified almost any international treaty, including rights of Women, rights of the children, etc.) and a country that hold people incarcelated in inhuman conditions (Guantanamo prision)
Not to mention that fact that, despite being the world's most wealthy state, there are countless of Americans that live in a crippling poverty, and, in some cases, starvation. (like the people of the Appalachian mountains)

On the other side, China is a country that went from being a brutal Stalinist (not communist, stalinist!) dictatorship to becoming a totalitarian capitalist state.
In China, there are no free elections, there is only one party, political activists are routinely incarcelated and, in many cases, executed (Ughiur or tibetan independence fighters, etc.), the internet is censored and daily monitored, and the country pursues a foreign policy equally imperialist to that of the US (Despite what it wants the world to believe, China is not a pacifist country. East Turkestan, Tibet and Vietnam, all countries that China has invaded in the past, and that continues to occupy illegally (in the case of Tibet and East Turkestan) are the proof of this imperialist policy)
Do not be confused, China is not communist (a country that has privatized its healthcare service cannot be called so!), neither is a prosperous paradise of equality. While the people of the cities may have access to greater luxuries, poverty has greatly increased, and the people in the countryside live in terrible conditions. Not to mention the fact that the government greatly allows sweatshops to thirve, in association with multinational corporations (Nike, Addidas, etc.)

The only difference between the US and China is that the US is in a spiral of decadence, a falling empire with a decreasing industrial capacity, while China is an emergent superpower, eager to take the place of the United States.

China rising power, who sells cheap goods with rapidly improving quality.

US degenerate older power with last gasp expansionistic dreams, and an arrogantly imperialistic public face.

no contest...


I agree China is the future of global politics, Its going to be soon that they start to take a stand against US expansionist BS. BTW I hate to point is out but American History is just as bloody as China's, what with the indian genocide etc. As is the history of most countries

Yes it seems overseas even our European allies prefer China to the US. And who can blame them? I mean while China is under a brutal communist dictatorship, the US started fastfood! So while the Chinese govt. killed their own people the company's in the US might be blamed for adding to the worlds obesity rate.

Oh, so America has never killed its own innocent people? :rolleyes: America isn't a squeaky-clean land where freedom rings true all the time. Our government has done some pretty bad stuff, we're not immune.

Precisley.



Believe it or not, most people do like you, we just don't like your government and some aspects of your culture. And the way a lot of Americans behave surely doesn't help. Just look around in the forums. I've personally never seen a place with so much bigots, war-lovers and loud-mouthed aggressive conservatives who neither respect OR give a damn about everyone's else feelings or opinions.


Sadly so true.

Who is better, China or the US?
No one is better.

The United States is a corporate oligarchy disguised as a 'democracy' (in reality, the same two parties, with the exact same policies, have been alternating power for the last 100 years),and in which a different ideological position was never allowed to rise (thanks to inmense corporate 'donations', to the Republicans and to the Democrats). Also, the USA have been pursuing imperialist policies almost since they begun to exist as a nation. (No! You were never isolationist!)
Under this imperialist expansionism, nations were invaded (Hawaii, for example, which at the time had its own king and constitution, Iraq, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Haiti, etc.) and brutal dictatorships and coup d'etats were supported with the sole aim of defending USA's comercial interests (Pinochet in Chile, Videla in Argentina, the shah in Persia, somoza in Nicaragua, most latin american cold war regimes, marcos in the Philippines, just to give a few examples).
The USA is also a country in which political activists that challenge the statu quo are condemnded to death penalty under false pretences (Mumia Abu-Jabal, Leonard Peltier, etc.), a country that routinely violates international law (The US, for example, hasn't ratified almost any international treaty, including rights of Women, rights of the children, etc.) and a country that hold people incarcelated in inhuman conditions (Guantanamo prision)
Not to mention that fact that, despite being the world's most wealthy state, there are countless of Americans that live in a crippling poverty, and, in some cases, starvation. (like the people of the Appalachian mountains)

On the other side, China is a country that went from being a brutal Stalinist (not communist, stalinist!) dictatorship to becoming a totalitarian capitalist state.
In China, there are no free elections, there is only one party, political activists are routinely incarcelated and, in many cases, executed (Ughiur or tibetan independence fighters, etc.), the internet is censored and daily monitored, and the country pursues a foreign policy equally imperialist to that of the US (Despite what it wants the world to believe, China is not a pacifist country. East Turkestan, Tibet and Vietnam, all countries that China has invaded in the past, and that continues to occupy illegally (in the case of Tibet and East Turkestan) are the proof of this imperialist policy)
Do not be confused, China is not communist (a country that has privatized its healthcare service cannot be called so!), neither is a prosperous paradise of equality. While the people of the cities may have access to greater luxuries, poverty has greatly increased, and the people in the countryside live in terrible conditions. Not to mention the fact that the government greatly allows sweatshops to thirve, in association with multinational corporations (Nike, Addidas, etc.)


Well said. A perfect commentary of both nation's political systems, human rights abuses and imperial acts.


The only difference between the US and China is that the US is in a spiral of decadence, a falling empire with a decreasing industrial capacity, while China is an emergent superpower, eager to take the place of the United States.

Which it will do, unless something happens to stop it.

Quite possibly, one of them in the course of their imperial expeditions is going to encroach on the other's imperial expeditions.

Cue face off, and possibly shit hitting the fan.

Oh, so America has never killed its own innocent people? :rolleyes: America isn't a squeaky-clean land where freedom rings true all the time. Our government has done some pretty bad stuff, we're not immune.
Who the hell is?

Phh... capitalism stinks anyway. Brutality, not so much(in real life. In my nation...). But, China is also just older, and has better culture. Too bad about all the other stuff.


Yes-I can see where one might feel it was fashionable to think China has a better "culture".

Now the masses will be flocking there, instead of dying in the ballast of ships to get the hell out.
Everyone will run there for their mandatory abortions and the ver-popular partial term abortions.

Yes-they do so enjoy a good high standard of living and education, entertained and informed by free press and other media.
Its a paradise.

Precisley.

Plus, Chinese are generally thought of as nice, well behaved and cheerful people. China gets a big bonus because of it's great culture, history and people. Sure, it's government sucks, but the rest is okay.

Same goes for the US.

Believe it or not, most people do like you, we just don't like your government and some aspects of your culture. And the way a lot of Americans behave surely doesn't help. Just look around in the forums. I've personally never seen a place with so much bigots, war-lovers and loud-mouthed aggressive conservatives who neither respect OR give a damn about everyone's else feelings or opinions.

And one might also point out that the US's reputation has increased in comparsion to last year.

Actually, the U.S. has alot of racial discrimination. Comedy shows talking about other countries. KKK Organizations in a sector of U.S., and other places...

Oh, so America has never killed its own innocent people? :rolleyes: America isn't a squeaky-clean land where freedom rings true all the time. Our government has done some pretty bad stuff, we're not immune.

Any government has done some goods and bads. Communism has done goods and bads. Democracy has done some goods and bads.

Actually, the U.S. has alot of racial discrimination. Comedy shows talking about other countries. KKK Organizations in a sector of U.S., and other places...

Everyone does the first one. KKK, well, we're still trying to figure out how to get rid of Nick Griffin and his mob.

Corruption and brutality by any other name still smells like horse shit.

A tyrant is a tyrant, no matter what nation you're in. Not suffering from a repressive regime, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

First off, allow me to correct this misconception. According to your statement, you implied that you witnessed relatives and neigbhors being shot in front of your face. According to your story, that occured in the Philipines by local police units. The Chinese government was not directly responsible for that.

I do not believe the current Chinese administration is a very nice thing for its people, but at the same time, I do believe that blame should fall where it is supposed to, not wherever you want it to go because it is convenient.


Also, if you think that Today's China is so free that you can write a letter to a newspaper critisizing the government and NOT get arrested, then you are deluding yourself.

And if you were in China during the 1960s, you would not be here either. I do not say that things are all very nice in China today, but it is significantly better than it was under Chairman Mao. Or are you saying that things are worst now?

If so, I must challenge you to prove that.

Things change. We have to accept that and try to go on as best as we can rather than relying on pure hatred. If we do not, then there would be significantly more wars in todays world. Britain would still probably trying to reclaim the American colonies, the American Indians would be trying to kick out the settlers, most of south east Asia would be attempting to send Japan back to the stone age for its brutal occupation, China would probably be occupying Mongolia for Genghis Khan and so on.

Everyone does the first one. KKK, well, we're still trying to figure out how to get rid of Nick Griffin and his mob.

Yes. Everyone makes fun of other countries. But if you were Chinese and was making fun of other countries in China, there would be no trouble with other people, because everyone else in China is Chinese... LIKE YOU!

Now, if countries like the U.S., which has more diversity than any other country make jokes about other countries, ethnicities are offended, while others enjoy.

If you hate China, like Forsaken Peoples, for its government acts, don't blame it all on China's Great Cultures and history.. Blame it on the Government. I may be a Proud Communist, but its the way China is partially ruled right now. What are you and the U.S. going to do about it? Invade China? Shoot Nukes at them? Think of the innocent Chinese people there. They'll die too. Please, don't remind me of the atomic attacks the U.S. have done to Japan during WWII, but China has Nuclear Weapons too. Right now, China is ruled by Nationalism, which is like Communism but with some democracy. I'm sure that the CCP will fall soon, due to the growing political growth in China. Right now, China has some voting polls in there.

I'm sure Hong Kong will be one of the safest in political freedoms, because all the citizens are against China's CCP.

That's an... interesting viewpoint. Currently the KMP is the minority party is and making nice with the CCP, they are the ones who support the notion that Taiwan is a part of China (actually, they still claim to be the legit goverment of China).

It's more the native population of Taiwan (which the KMP invaded and surpressed) who is claiming independance from the mainland. And the issue is a lot hotter than you give it credit for.
Meh, what I see is all talk. The Taiwanese populace (apart from the hill tribes, they never really wanted to be part of it) is probably not ready to start a war about a piece of paper saying "We're independent!".
Whenever I see interviews with people in Taipeh, the generally aren't happy with China's behaviour, but they certainly don't want their crackpot president (the one who was miraculously shot and won out of sympathy) to act on his megalomanical dreams.
And give them 15 or 20 years and China is a free, nationalistic but democratic neighbour and probably the world's strongest economy. Just like Taiwan, only bigger. All they have to do is outlast the few remaining cold warriors.

China rising power, who sells cheap goods with rapidly improving quality.

US degenerate older power with last gasp expansionistic dreams, and an arrogantly imperialistic public face.

no contest...
Nobody else sees the irony in this statement?

I can understand that, I always, when in a foreign country notice some obnoxious and yes underdressed Americans, it makes me angry and hell I live in the US. But I always try to respect other peoples cultures.

I just think that, for the time being, the US, and not just the govt. But some of the obnoxious people have lost its way.

I mean currently the US is a very underdressed country, and it is spreading too. But I miss a time when everybody, even gangsters and mobsters wore suits, trenchcoats (not the gothic kind) and hats (and Im not talking about baseball hats either.

Oh bealive me, the foreign tourists here are *very* bad. I have a friend who works at a local resturaunt, and the Canadians like to tip them 5 cents just to be asses.

Also, the latter part of the Europeans can be quite arrogant.

Its a sad state of affairs when China is more popular than the US. They block the UN from doing anything in the Sudan, they assist Iran in their nuclear program, and yet they're more popular? According to who? Dictators Weekly? They dont particapte on the world stage? Are you kidding me? They've got a seat on the Security Council. Stop being ignornant. As for their cheap goods, the quality isnt that high, it comes from being cheap and keeping the bottom line as far down as possible.

....According to who? Dictators Weekly?...
According to me. And a whole set of other people. And various EU Leaders who'd rather trade with China than listen to US Cold Warriors get all excited.
Stop being ignorant, the US is not the standard for good behaviour and likability in the world, and hasn't been for some time.

According to me. And a whole set of other people. And various EU Leaders who'd rather trade with China than listen to US Cold Warriors get all excited.
Stop being ignorant, the US is not the standard for good behaviour and likability in the world, and hasn't been for some time.

Oh you must mean lifting the arms embargo on China, and selling them weapons. Because you know, thats such a GREAT idea. Especially with the Japanese expanding their own navy because Chinese submarines continually slip into Japanese terrirtorial waters, and with China making threats everytime Taiwan considers independence..yup..great job EU..the US doesnt care if you trade with them. Free market, we care when its weapons though.

And Leon, you arent the majority of Europe. You're one person.

-snip-
Well, I've said my part on Taiwan. The Japan thing is a worry (maybe), but again neither side would have anything to gain from fighting, so they won't.
The US' commitment to free markets is highly questionable, but that's for another day.
China is statistically, and politically, much less likely to start a war than the US.
And I never said I was the majority of Europe. Neither are Chirac or Schröder, but I never used the words "majority of Europe" anyways. You made that one up. But read previous pages on this thread. There are people (plenty of them) who like China more than they like the US.

Well, I've said my part on Taiwan. The Japan thing is a worry (maybe), but again neither side would have anything to gain from fighting, so they won't.
The US' commitment to free markets is highly questionable, but that's for another day.
China is statistically, and politically, much less likely to start a war than the US.
And I never said I was the majority of Europe. Neither are Chirac or Schröder, but I never used the words "majority of Europe" anyways. You made that one up. But read previous pages on this thread. There are people (plenty of them) who like China more than they like the US.


You seem to be forgetting China's past...from 1950 onward and how many wars they got into..or do you think the Dhali Llama enjoys being in India so much that he hasnt been to Tibet in several decades. You Europeans love to rant and rave about ignorant Americans and yet you seem to know jackshit. Statically and politically, the Chinese have started more, and and been in more wars aggressively than the US has. Shall I run out a list for you of conflicts since 1950 and aggressive military action not undertaken as part of a humanitarian mission? Because statistically you're wrong. And politically you're wrong as well. But keep liking China better..you really have no fucking clue.

-snip the insults (and the little bit that remains)-
Now you're starting to insult me. Well done!
Yes, please provide me with a list of conflicts China has been engaged in (better yet, recent ones, cuz China has changed a lot since 1950), and one with conflicts the US has been engaged in. But also include the "humanitarian missions" please.

Now you're starting to insult me. Well done!
Yes, please provide me with a list of conflicts China has been engaged in (better yet, recent ones, cuz China has changed a lot since 1950), and one with conflicts the US has been engaged in. But also include the "humanitarian missions" please.
China fought a victorious war with India in the 1960s. Also, CHina fought two wars with Vietnam in the 1970s and 1980s, both were bloody affairs where China got its ass handed to it, but no one in the west remembers these wars because it's all little yellow men dying.

-snip-
"ass handed to it" is a matter of definition I guess. On the 17.2.1979 China attacked Vietnam "after many border incidents" it says here in my book.
Doesn't say who won (interestingly), but it seemed to be dubbed a "police action" by China in response to Vietnam's attack on Cambodia.
My book says nothing about the 1980s though. Maybe you could post a link.

But as I said, those wars where a long time ago (you also forgot the whole China vs Russia border business), and all in all, over the past 60 years, the US was certainly more warlike than China, even moreso if you only look at the past 20 years.

Its a sad state of affairs when China is more popular than the US. They block the UN from doing anything in the Sudan, they assist Iran in their nuclear program, and yet they're more popular? According to who? Dictators Weekly? They dont particapte on the world stage? Are you kidding me? They've got a seat on the Security Council. Stop being ignornant. As for their cheap goods, the quality isnt that high, it comes from being cheap and keeping the bottom line as far down as possible.
Yes they did block the aid for Sudan. But it was only because the country is facing a conflict that only the country should solve themselves. China did not help Iran with their Nuclear technology. North Korea did.

"ass handed to it" is a matter of definition I guess. On the 17.2.1979 China attacked Vietnam "after many border incidents" it says here in my book.
Doesn't say who won (interestingly), but it seemed to be dubbed a "police action" by China in response to Vietnam's attack on Cambodia.
My book says nothing about the 1980s though. Maybe you could post a link.

But as I said, those wars where a long time ago (you also forgot the whole China vs Russia border business), and all in all, over the past 60 years, the US was certainly more warlike than China, even moreso if you only look at the past 20 years.

China NEVER attacked Vietnam. They SUPPORTED the Communist Vietnam, which was the North.

You seem to be forgetting China's past...from 1950 onward and how many wars they got into..or do you think the Dhali Llama enjoys being in India so much that he hasnt been to Tibet in several decades. You Europeans love to rant and rave about ignorant Americans and yet you seem to know jackshit. Statically and politically, the Chinese have started more, and and been in more wars aggressively than the US has. Shall I run out a list for you of conflicts since 1950 and aggressive military action not undertaken as part of a humanitarian mission? Because statistically you're wrong. And politically you're wrong as well. But keep liking China better..you really have no fucking clue.


Yeah... it was the past. This is now. They've changed now, they were bad back then.. but it's all about now.

Well, I've said my part on Taiwan. The Japan thing is a worry (maybe), but again neither side would have anything to gain from fighting, so they won't.
The US' commitment to free markets is highly questionable, but that's for another day.
China is statistically, and politically, much less likely to start a war than the US.
And I never said I was the majority of Europe. Neither are Chirac or Schröder, but I never used the words "majority of Europe" anyways. You made that one up. But read previous pages on this thread. There are people (plenty of them) who like China more than they like the US.

Taiwan is a conflict with China. Japan is considered harmless to China, infact, defenseless. All Japan has is U.S. Peacekeepers and Japanese Defensive/International Forces. Thats it. Japan is just tempting China.

"ass handed to it" is a matter of definition I guess. On the 17.2.1979 China attacked Vietnam "after many border incidents" it says here in my book. Doesn't say who won (interestingly), but it seemed to be dubbed a "police action" by China in response to Vietnam's attack on Cambodia.
Many hardline Chinese partisans on the internet, particularly the crowd from Sinodefence.com are silent about the '79 war, or if pressed, spin it as an "successful achieving of limited objectives", but then again these are the types of people who have encouraged the false belief common in the mainland that the PLA sacked New Delhi in '62. In reality, China's little incursion in Vietnam was a big loss of face. Sure, the Chinese technically drove the Vietnamese back, but then again so did the USA during the Tet Offensive. China had appalling casualties, failed to throw the Vietnamese out of Cambodia, and lost all of its well-earned respect as an effective exporter of militant revolution. Bizarrely, the Chinese government unilaterally declared "victory" after a futile month of bloody battles. Shortly thereafter Deng Xiaoping conveniently admitted that the PLA was obsolete and started an overhaul of the army which continues to this day. My hat is definitely off to Vietnam, which has the tremendous distinction of humbling both the USA and China within a 10 year period.



But as I said, those wars where a long time ago (you also forgot the whole China vs Russia border business), and all in all, over the past 60 years, the US was certainly more warlike than China, even moreso if you only look at the past 20 years.
Today's US is definitely more warlike than China, since Bush is attempting to impose his agenda of cultural imperialism upon the world. But between Liberation in 1949 and approximately 1981 when the Gang of Four was destroyed, China was one of the most aggressive and warlike states on earth. China's poverty was the only thing that limited the nation from acting out its leaders' fantasy for bloody world-wide Marxist revolution. Mao's fervent desire for a worldwide ideological war caused him to give money and weapons to the Mozambique uprisings, Angolan uprisings, other wars, and of course the reprehensible ultra-leftist Pol Pot regime in Cambodia, which killed people who wore glasses because they looked bourgeois. Everyone should be thankful that Vietnam's Communists, far more moderate than China's Communists, invaded Cambodia and overthrew that madman Pol Pot out of fear that Pol Pot's Maoist butchery would destablize SE Asia. But Pol Pot was China's man, and that is why China went into Vietnam in '79. Today Chicom has mellowed out and become more realist while the US is becoming more ideologically hard line, but in Mao's time China was as enthusiastic about imposing Marxism and compulsory subsistence farming on Africa as Bush is about imposing western democracy and robber baron capitalism on Iraq. After all, the reason Mao picked his fight with the USSR was because he believed the USSR wasn't communist enough.


My book says nothing about the 1980s though. Maybe you could post a link.

The second war was smaller and more obscure... mainly discussed by Chinese nationalists on Mandarin language forums. Here's a tangential mention of the war:
http://www.china-defense.com/orbat/pla_orbat/pla_orbat_30.html
Off the top of my head I recall about 12000 casualties total within a few weeks, I'd search for more links if my home internet connection is working and if the library doesn't close right about now.

China NEVER attacked Vietnam.
You are 100% incorrect.
They SUPPORTED the Communist Vietnam, which was the North.
It was far more complex than that.

Today's US is definitely more warlike than China, since Bush is attempting to impose his agenda of cultural imperialism upon the world. But between Liberation in 1949 and approximately 1981 when the Gang of Four was destroyed, China was one of the most aggressive and warlike states on earth.
Which is more or less my point. China has changed, no longer are Marxist Revolutions part of the program. Balance of Payments and Current Account Surplus is the new ideology.
So today, it would be, I believe, more likely that a weapon is used when it is in the hands of the US, than when it is in the hands of China.
So I on principle support the idea of arms trading between the EU and China, not because I like arms trading, but because if you trade them with the US, there is no justifiable reason to exclude others.