NationStates Jolt Archive

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.


Oprah Winfrey says race may have played a part in a situation at Paris store (http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=3513703)

PARIS Oprah Winfrey says a situation at an upscale Paris store was "one of the most humiliating moments of her life."

That's according to Winfrey's best friend Gayle King. She spoke with "Entertainment Tonight" and says Oprah was not allowed in the store, despite the fact people were still inside shopping. Gayle adds that Winfrey's "O-K," but will no longer shop where her business is not appreciated.

Winfrey has suggested the situation was racial. Her spokeswoman tells The Associated Press that Winfrey plans to discuss her "Crash" moment when her show returns to the air in September. "Crash" is a film dealing with race relations.

The store, meantime, has apologized to Winfrey for any "misunderstanding" the circumstances caused. The store maintains it was closed for a public relations event when Winfrey came knocking.

They should prepare some bankrupcy papers, you don't piss off Oprah

Ihatevacations']They should prepare some bankrupcy papers, you don't piss off Oprah
More to the point ... why would they want to? In 2003, Ophra became the very first African American female billionaire. Since the store had made exceptions about closing time for many other celebrities, why not for Ophra? I frankly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out she was rebuffed as much for being an American as for being black.

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.


Oprah Winfrey says race may have played a part in a situation at Paris store (http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=3513703)

PARIS Oprah Winfrey says a situation at an upscale Paris store was "one of the most humiliating moments of her life."

That's according to Winfrey's best friend Gayle King. She spoke with "Entertainment Tonight" and says Oprah was not allowed in the store, despite the fact people were still inside shopping. Gayle adds that Winfrey's "O-K," but will no longer shop where her business is not appreciated.

Winfrey has suggested the situation was racial. Her spokeswoman tells The Associated Press that Winfrey plans to discuss her "Crash" moment when her show returns to the air in September. "Crash" is a film dealing with race relations.

The store, meantime, has apologized to Winfrey for any "misunderstanding" the circumstances caused. The store maintains it was closed for a public relations event when Winfrey came knocking.

She went to the store after it had closed for REGULAR business hours. It was holding a private event after-hours. She didn't get in because people not associated with the event weren't allowed in. Also, the french showed a good deal more tolerant attitude towards blacks during WW1 despite white American urging to do otherwise

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.
Wait... you're NOT referring to the Language Police in Quebec?! :D

Ihatevacations']They should prepare some bankrupcy papers, you don't piss off Oprah

As if a Parisian really cares.

She went to the store after it had closed for REGULAR business hours. It was holding a private event after-hours. She didn't get in because people not associated with the event weren't allowed in. Also, the french showed a good deal more tolerant attitude towards blacks during WW1 despite white American urging to do otherwise
That was then. This is now. I say the "private event" excuse is bogus.

Wait... you're NOT referring to the Language Police in Quebec?! :D
Them too. :p

As if a Parisian really cares.
A company should, there is this thing called cable tv. American celcebrities are some of the most known people in the world.

That was then. This is now. I say the "private event" excuse is bogus.
There are stores there that have doorbells and they can decide who they want to let in and not let in. If it was very public then there would have been a problem. But stores like that have every right to decide who they let it regardless of whether it's racist or not.

Though in thsi case it sounds like she's just being snitty because she didn't get to go in.

Ihatevacations']A company should, there is this thing called cable tv. American celcebrities are some of the most known people in the world.
And why is the rest of the world supposed to care about these over paid under-qualified celebrities? (though not all are, but even still...)

Them too. :p
After a while, it just becomes white noise and you learn to ignore it.

If anything, it was probably because she is american, not black.

And why is the rest of the world supposed to care about these over paid under-qualified celebrities? (though not all are, but even still...)
Because celebrity recommendation carries alot of weight, and if you piss em off, you don't get a recommendation, in fact you mgiht get a public snub, bad business.

There are stores there that have doorbells and they can decide who they want to let in and not let in. If it was very public then there would have been a problem. But stores like that have every right to decide who they let it regardless of whether it's racist or not.

Though in thsi case it sounds like she's just being snitty because she didn't get to go in.
Oh, I'm not disputing their right to deny service ( just like the restaurants in the old South with the signs "We reserve the right to deny service to anyone!" ), I'm just saying that if they choose to be racist, then they should suffer the consequences. Ophra is real good with "consequences." :D

There's plenty of black people in France. I don't think they're any more racist than any other Western society.
I think it's justified though that they try and find French words for things rather than just use the English word. That's not ethnocentric, they just wanna preserve their culture and language as it was. Let them do what they want, what's it to you?

Oh, I'm not disputing their right to deny service ( just like the restaurants in the old South with the signs "We reserve the right to deny service to anyone!" ), I'm just saying that if they choose to be racist, then they should suffer the consequences. Ophra is real good with "consequences." :D
But, may I ask, where is the proof of racism?

Is Winfrey just blowing out her ass because she's famous or is there a real case?

After all, racism is relevant based on a situtation like this where there is no real obvious indication of discrimination. I'm not French and if I was denied service, I could say that they are racist. But people would laugh at me. But because she's dark, she can say that?

Ihatevacations']Because celebrity recommendation carries alot of weight, and if you piss em off, you don't get a recommendation, in fact you mgiht get a public snub, bad business.
Yes, plus by every report I've ever heard, Ophra is a decent human being, in addition to being the only African American female billionaire. I tend to believe her if she says that the store was at least partially motivated by prejudice.

She went to the store after it had closed for REGULAR business hours. It was holding a private event after-hours. She didn't get in because people not associated with the event weren't allowed in. Also, the french showed a good deal more tolerant attitude towards blacks during WW1 despite white American urging to do otherwise

Hold on, so your saying that it was after hours, Oprah comes knocking, and when she isn't let in AFTER HOURS she claims it was racism???

HELLO!!!!!!!!! DOES THIS MAKE SENCE TO ANYONE??? I hate it when people think they can do what they want because they are part of a minority group. It always make me mad when people do that, because they are trampling on the graves of their ancesters who only wanted equlity. And I bet she also thought she should be let in the store because she was a celebrity. Well, your not above anyone else, Mr. and Mrs Celebrity, and if the store manager is doing a promotion, and your not invited, please don't expect to be let in.

*breaths*

I'm not saying thaat all minority groups do this, or that any specific minority group do these things, just that specific people from minority groups do, and its those people I have no respect for.

Ihatevacations']Because celebrity recommendation carries alot of weight, and if you piss em off, you don't get a recommendation, in fact you mgiht get a public snub, bad business.
And exactly how does an American celebrity snubbing a store in paris bad for business? :rolleyes:

And exactly how does an American celebrity snubbing a store in paris bad for business? :rolleyes:
If you havn't picked it up yet I am not going to waste my time further

Hold on, so your saying that it was after hours, Oprah comes knocking, and when she isn't let in AFTER HOURS she claims it was racism???

HELLO!!!!!!!!! DOES THIS MAKE SENCE TO ANYONE??? I hate it when people think they can do what they want because they are part of a minority group. It always make me mad when people do that, because they are trampling on the graves of their ancesters who only wanted equlity. And I bet she also thought she should be let in the store because she was a celebrity. Well, your not above anyone else, Mr. and Mrs Celebrity, and if the store manager is doing a promotion, and your not invited, please don't expect to be let in.

*breaths*

I'm not saying thaat all minority groups do this, or that any specific minority group do these things, just that specific people from minority groups do, and its those people I have no respect for.
According to all reports, the store was in the habit of delaying their normal closing time for celebrities. They just wouldn't do it for Ophra.

Ihatevacations']If you havn't picked it up yet I am not going to waste my time further
But why would the, generally European, customers of super exclusive fashion stores care? They can't really go anywhere else, and many of them have never watched Oprah.
If they even hear that Oprah snubbed the place, they forget it the next 10 minutes.

That was then. This is now. I say the "private event" excuse is bogus.

You say their private event excuse is bogus? Well then your claims of racism are bogus.

According to all reports, the store was in the habit of delaying their normal closing time for celebrities. They just wouldn't do it for Ophra.

Maybe because they already had something planned, like say a private event? Or perhaps she felt if she just showed up after hours she would be let in because she's a celebrity and therefore other peoples lives don't matter

Ihatevacations']If you havn't picked it up yet I am not going to waste my time further
Hmn....

1 pissy and snitty American celebrity doesn't get her way...

1 store doesn't let her in after hours...

said celebrity decides that racism...

she tells the nation not to shop there...

Paris, unless you're really keen on geopgraphy is typically in France. (it can also be found in Ontario, Canada)...

It's known that most Americans, in their life time, don't travel far from home, either due to preference or lack of money. So why should it matter if they tells her fellow Americans NOT to shop at this store?

I remember watching TV in Paris, there is NO English TV, except for CNN International and SkyTV. They never showed Opera once there. So how would they even have known about her?

Though, even if there is more English TV than I mentioned, would she even be shown?

And then, let's say some French TV talk show host goes to the US and gets that kind of treatment, do you think the Americans would care?

Next, there are very upscale stores in Paris that cater to the upper class, and in order to go into some, you do need an ppointment; you can't just walk in off the street.

EDIT: Meh.

According to all reports, the store was in the habit of delaying their normal closing time for celebrities. They just wouldn't do it for Ophra.
Whether she was denied access to the store based on her colour is irrelevant to the title of your thread that would generalize that all French people are "racist".

If this one incident makes France "racist", then what does that make America?

If this one incident makes France "racist", then what does that make America?
Check and mate.

According to all reports, the store was in the habit of delaying their normal closing time for celebrities. They just wouldn't do it for Ophra.

They often delay their normal closing time for celebrities when said celebrity calls ahead and reserves a time to do his/her private shopping at the store. Oprah showed up and just expected to be let in because she's a snotty millionaire who thinks the world revolves around her and her desires. The store was having a prescheduled event and Oprah was not associated with that event. Quid Pro Quo, she was not allowed into the store. Rascism had nothing to do with it. You should really get both sides of the story before posting an stupid flamebait thread like this.

The restaurant near my house closes at 10 PM. If you're inside at 10, then you can stay till you're done, but at that time they won't seat anyone else. It's my understanding that even though there were still people in the store, the store had officially been closed for 20 minutes before Oprah got there. I am, accordingly, not offended so much by the fact that Oprah wasn't let into the store as I am by the fact that people immediately assume that her skin color was the reason she was turned away.

If she was white, would anyone care that the store didn't let her in?

I am willing to bet that there were black people inside at the event when this happened.

It speaks poorly of Oprah Winfrey that she is behaving this way in any case.

The restaurant near my house closes at 10 PM. If you're inside at 10, then you can stay till you're done, but at that time they won't seat anyone else. It's my understanding that even though there were still people in the store, the store had officially been closed for 20 minutes before Oprah got there. I am, accordingly, not offended so much by the fact that Oprah wasn't let into the store as I am by the fact that people immediately assume that her skin color was the reason she was turned away.

If she was white, would anyone care that the store didn't let her in?

The restaurant near my house closes at 10 PM. If you're inside at 10, then you can stay till you're done, but at that time they won't seat anyone else. It's my understanding that even though there were still people in the store, the store had officially been closed for 20 minutes before Oprah got there. I am, accordingly, not offended so much by the fact that Oprah wasn't let into the store as I am by the fact that people immediately assume that her skin color was the reason she was turned away.

If she was white, would anyone care that the store didn't let her in?

Err...

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.

French language is plagued with english expression coming from the american pop culture. They want to prevent there language to become a french/english slang. Nothing about being ethnocentric. Its about preserving a language that wont change every 5 years because MTV invent new words. And its nothing when compared to your "liberty fries".


Oprah Winfrey says race may have played a part in a situation at Paris store (http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=3513703)

PARIS Oprah Winfrey says a situation at an upscale Paris store was "one of the most humiliating moments of her life."

That's according to Winfrey's best friend Gayle King. She spoke with "Entertainment Tonight" and says Oprah was not allowed in the store, despite the fact people were still inside shopping. Gayle adds that Winfrey's "O-K," but will no longer shop where her business is not appreciated.

Winfrey has suggested the situation was racial. Her spokeswoman tells The Associated Press that Winfrey plans to discuss her "Crash" moment when her show returns to the air in September. "Crash" is a film dealing with race relations.

The store, meantime, has apologized to Winfrey for any "misunderstanding" the circumstances caused. The store maintains it was closed for a public relations event when Winfrey came knocking.

Its was after buisness hour and the shop was closed for a special cocktail/presentation. Remember that for the comon french people, Oprah Winfrey is a freaking nobody. They dont know her. If you work at a luxury shop witch is closed for a special occasion and a random person is knocking on the door you will turn him off.

Now after realising who she was and how rich she was, they apologized a lot (they know they lost money on this).... end of story. Im sorry, but Winfrey is being a spoiled cry baby for crying that the store did'nt open specificaly for her. And she's a bitch for mentioning a racial situation

Sounds to me more like a celebrity being precious to me...she didn't get treated like a megastar should be, apparently...

...and even if what she says is true, how does an incident in one store make ALL French racists?

Ah, Eutrusca....

Yes the French are racist. When I was in France they all thought I was north african and everybody kept giving me shit :mad:.

That's how I learned how to say "fuck off" in French.

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.


Of course, America would never do the same in thinking that French influenced words or phrases are "corrupting" their language.

French Fries becoming Freedom Fries.....French wine becoming Freedom Wine.

No....of course not.

As for Oprah, the shop probably did not know who she was, or if they did, cared. If it was holding an event at the time, having Oprah walk in would probably disrupt it. Not that I'm saying it's right.

Oprah has to understand that not everybody worships the ground she walks on.

She went to the store after it had closed for REGULAR business hours. It was holding a private event after-hours. She didn't get in because people not associated with the event weren't allowed in. Also, the french showed a good deal more tolerant attitude towards blacks during WW1 despite white American urging to do otherwise

They probably just went.. "Who the hell is that?" "I Have no idea, some black lady trying to get in..." "Doesn't she know it's closed?" "I dunno..." "Someone tell her to go away, we're closed..." etc...

Yeah, that's right up there with lynching. But what do I know... I wasn't there...

Oh, I'm not disputing their right to deny service ( just like the restaurants in the old South with the signs "We reserve the right to deny service to anyone!" ), I'm just saying that if they choose to be racist, then they should suffer the consequences. Ophra is real good with "consequences." :D
I guess what Ophra thinks is of as much interest to this shop owner as the fact that a sack of rice just toppled over somewhere in China. I know I woulnd't care.

oprah wears clothes i can never hope to afford as long as i may live. she is escorted around wherever she goes by security personel and an army of, essentially, servants. she does not look like someone who is hurting for money. if they wouldn't open the door for the loud woman in expensive jewelry waving a credit card like she's hailing a cab, then they probably had a good reason. i have no sympathy for anyone who was "snubbed" out of the chance to buy some horribly, embarrasingly overpriced merchandise (that she does not fucking need) for maybe a day. i mean, was the store closed every day thereafter? gah. when a store tells me that they are closed, be it through that happy little sign, or perhaps some employee informing me of such, i say "ok, store. i shall take my leave of you, in the hope of expediting your closure." i do not say "fuck you. you can stay the hell open as long as i'm here. private function? i'm private. lemme in"

Just to make one thing absolutely clear beyond doubt :

Europe doesn't know who Opra is.

She sometimes gets shown on British and Irish TV, normally during the morning when hardly anybody's watching. the rest of the continent hasn't even heard her name.

The French can be extremely haughty and arrogant if they choose to, I won't deny that. However, in most cases you will find that a little politeness will be returned instantly. To French people it's incredibly rude for foreigners not even to try and speak the language, so address a French person at home in any other language and they will react offended.
But that doesn't make them racist. I very very much doubt that an exclusive shop like that would turn down any well-dressed customers smelling of money unless they had a reason, like a promotion for invited guests.
I wonder would she react the same way if a similar situation had occured in, say, L.A.?

I resent any implication about Jews using their minority status and the Holocaust to boss people around and promote their own interests and political lobbies, or about "the Holocaust" the Israelis are conducting in the Middle-East, or any (again) implied allegations of the Israeli regime beeing a Theocratic Jihad bent on enforcing Zionism.

I won't be naming anyone, but I expect these people to respectfully either apologise publicly to the Hebrew people, or to abstain from postings in the Forum for a fortnight in penitence.

Of course, America would never do the same in thinking that French influenced words or phrases are "corrupting" their language.

French Fries becoming Freedom Fries.....French wine becoming Freedom Wine.

No....of course not.

As for Oprah, the shop probably did not know who she was, or if they did, cared. If it was holding an event at the time, having Oprah walk in would probably disrupt it. Not that I'm saying it's right.

Oprah has to understand that not everybody worships the ground she walks on.

With all due respect the U.S.A. should keep in mind that she inherited her language from the British, who in turn inherited it from their Saxon and Angle forefathers, who were later conquered by Normans (who themselves were Norse conquered Franks - a Germanic off-shoot cross-bred with Gallic Celts) who introduced a bunch of French, latin and generally Romantic words and concepts to a very poor and Germanic-riden English, so that the government could say what it wanted and function on a level higher than buying and selling sheep wholesale.

So before you suggest purging your language, first KNOW your language.

P.S.: And by the way the word "French" is an English word, without which you would noname for the country, nation and general concept of France, which I mentioned earlier.
______________
Have a nice day!

P.S.: And by the way the word "French" is an English word, without which you would noname for the country, nation and general concept of France, which I mentioned earlier.
Care to explain this rather strange notion?

Just to make one thing absolutely clear beyond doubt :

Europe doesn't know who Opra is.
I really envy Europe that. I wish I didn't know who Oprah was! Sadly Oprah was popular before I stopped watching TV, but now that i don't watch TV anymore maybe I'll be spared the painfully excessive knowledge of these celebrities that the boob tube forces on us :D

With all due respect the U.S.A. should keep in mind that she inherited her language from the British, who in turn inherited it from their Saxon and Angle forefathers, who were later conquered by Normans (who themselves were Norse conquered Franks - a Germanic off-shoot cross-bred with Gallic Celts) who introduced a bunch of French, latin and generally Romantic words and concepts to a very poor and Germanic-riden English, so that the government could say what it wanted and function on a level higher than buying and selling sheep wholesale.

So before you suggest purging your language, first KNOW your language.

P.S.: And by the way the word "French" is an English word, without which you would noname for the country, nation and general concept of France, which I mentioned earlier.
______________
Have a nice day!

French is an English word that relate to France that was purged in America a little while ago in relation to Fries and Wine because of issues some Americans had with France.

That was my point, and by that I agree, English-speaking people who purge these words from existence in the language are purging English words but also purging words which relate to French people, which French people have been accused of doing to the English words or influence in their language.

I should add however, that the English language does have French influences in it, that most people do not tend to realise.

PS. The term 'France' comes from the French calling their country 'La France' so I would say that in itself is French influence and concept of calling France by.

I'm working in France at the moment but live in the US: I'd say on average, particularly in Paris, France is more racially integrated and tolerant than most places I've been in the US - quite strikingly so, e.g. in the number of mixed-race couples. Without knowing all the details we can't judge the facts of this case, but I suspect race was less likely to be a factor here than the simple fact of it being a private event. Oprah may be powerful in the US and used to getting whatever she wants, but perhaps she needs to learn (as the Stones put it) that You Can't Always Get What You Want...

Indeed, like everywhere there are a bunch of racist in France, and it's still a problem. But I think it's really no different from any other country, we have to keep on fighting it.

This little story doesn't give any proof of such racism, as it's only based on one person with no real evidence. If you look for them, you can find serious studies from anti-rasism groups which really show some dicsrimination on the entrance policies of a bunch of nightclubs, or rejection of resumes by some companies solely based on the "exotic" names of the appliant.

As said before, Oprah is completely unknown anywhere outside North America. I just know her name because I watch a lot of US tv series in English and she's sometimes mentioned. But I have no idea what she look like.

As for the language part, you have to realize that the American culture, and infortunately quite often not the best of it, is taking over the world. We French try to defend ours by promoting our films, music and language, so our culture isn't completely crushed. I have met several people from other countries that told me they wished their country did more to defend and promote their own culture.

Finally, a little insight on the so-called rudeness of the French. First, most foreign tourists limit themselves to Paris, and it's quite known in France that Parisians are probably the rudest and arrogant people in the country, and are often in a rush as they live and work there. But they are in fact not as rude as you Americans portray them. My guess is that a lot of people who French are being rude too were the first one to be rude in the first place by being to direct, not using any introduction, and refusing to learn a few very basic words in French. If I meet someone who ask me "Bonjour, excusez-moi de vous déranger, je ne parle pas français" with the cutest of foreign accent, I will definitely stop, have a friendly chat and do my best to help the guy out. But if a person would give me a tap on the shoulder and just say "Time ?", I would be WTF :confused: .

As if a Parisian really cares.
They should. She's going to buy Jerry Springer's production company, and she's moving it to Paris, where they'll import Americans for his show. She expects to lose money making the show, be she says the self-satisfaction she expects to see from it will be a flavor that money can rarely buy.

Thats a damn lot of assumptions flying around here. The article says nothing at all about the situation, but only states claims. Way to blame a whole nation based on that. Blow a non-issue out of proportion, will ya Eutrusca?

They should. She's going to buy Jerry Springer's production company, and she's moving it to Paris, where they'll import Americans for his show. She expects to lose money making the show, be she says the self-satisfaction she expects to see from it will be a flavor that money can rarely buy.

I don't know anything about Jerry Springer's production company, buthere is another interesting fact:

Jerry Springer, too, is a complete nobody in Europe.

And, honestly, Oprah moving to Paris is not going to impress any Parisian much...

Perhaps they did know of her and didn't want her cutom because they had once suffered her dreadful show.

I resent any implication about Jews using their minority status and the Holocaust to boss people around and promote their own interests and political lobbies

No idea why this was brught up but. A couple of nights back I saw a news piece on the Anglican Church deciding whether to use their economic and political clout to stop the Israeli actions in Gaza. An israeli spokesman came on and with 20 seconds he had effectively compared Archbishop Rowan Williams to Chancellor Hitler.

They aren't trying to play it up at all are they?

Yes, plus by every report I've ever heard, Ophra is a decent human being, in addition to being the only African American female billionaire. I tend to believe her if she says that the store was at least partially motivated by prejudice.
OH, I see she's rich and therefore her word is automatically better then anybody else. Please don't tell me that's what you meant!! :confused:

Eutrusca, I'm surprised at you. Would the action of one American characterise every inhabitant of the States? How do the actions of one of my countrymen, in an incident I wasn't aware of until now, make me a racist, exactly?

I confirm, btw, that Oprah is a nobody over here. I've heard of her, but I wouldn't recognise her if I saw her, and most people haven't even heard of her.

Stores in Paris usually stop allowing people to enter a short while before they close, which means that everyone will be denied admittance while there are still people inside. Also, if there was a private event and she just walked in off the street and demanded to be let in, how did you expect them to react?

For your information, I've never heard of a store denying someone entrance on the basis of ethnicity. Sounds like she's trying to invent a scandal because she was treated like anyone else for once.

Who gives a shit about her?

If some person, probably dollar-reeking and arrogant, came knocking on my door after closing time and in the middle of a private arrangement, I wouldn't be very polite.

Let me in!
Sorry. Private arrangement going on. Come back another day
But I'm a tourist, and I'm rich... And I'm really famous!
Go. Now.
But I really am famous. And really really rich!
Yea and you're really annoying. Now leave or I will either call the cops or dump you in the nearest river myself.

I know how annoying tourists can be. I know how desperate costumers can be when they're refused service. I'm pretty sure I'd die from stress if I knew how annoying a famous rich one can be.
The shop have my sympathy. And I really hope that Opera thingy drops this, or crashes her private jet next time she goes flying.

Why is it that some people think everyone should get along all the time?

Why cant people be different?

Why must you tell people not to think differently?

Winfrey has suggested the situation was racial. Her spokeswoman tells The Associated Press that Winfrey plans to discuss her "Crash" moment when her show returns to the air in September. "Crash" is a film dealing with race relations.

I thought Crash was about a couple that go around getting sexual thrills from car crashes :confused:

According to all reports, the store was in the habit of delaying their normal closing time for celebrities. They just wouldn't do it for Ophra.

Is Oprah a famous personality in France?

Just to make one thing absolutely clear beyond doubt :

Europe doesn't know who Opra is.


True. I vaguely recognise the name. But beyond her being a black middle aged american woman, I have no idea who she is or what she looks like.

Is Oprah a famous personality in France?

No. As I said, most people here have never even heard of her.

I'd so like to see the face of an arrogant, noisy celeb when they find out everyone sees them as a nobody. :D

Jerry Springer, too, is a complete nobody in Europe.


Not in Britain

Not in Britain

Well, he's probably a bit better known than Trisha

So in summary: Oprah is denied entry to a store because it is closed and she is not known well enough to considered a celebrity and afforded special treatment.

Even if this action was somehow rascist it was performed be a few people who do not represent the feelings of the entire French nation.

Kind of a pointless thread in my opinion.

Not in Britain

Alas so.

It does me good to see that a shop can treat a celebrity like us scum for once.

Not in Britain

I can assure you that only a minute minority in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and France ever heard the name. Nobody in these countries would recognise him. I lived in those countries and only heard about him when I moved to Canada.

His show isn't on at all in Ireland, either.

Ihatevacations']They should prepare some bankrupcy papers, you don't piss off Oprah

This isnt America, you can't just sue people because they hurt your feelings

Well, he's probably a bit better known than Trisha

Who is Trisha?

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.Come on. It is a terrible thing, but you can't say the France is racist just because of the actions of one shopkeeper.

I thought Crash was about a couple that go around getting sexual thrills from car crashes :confused:
That was the old movie. The new one was acctually pretty bad ass in parts. I actually wouldn't say that it was particularly about race, but rather the interplay of the small kindnesses and evils we do for and to each other across the larger tapestry of society.

Not in Britain
We like to view Britain as a discorporated America franchise. Sort of like the original McDonalds.

When I first saw this thread I was thinking there would be something along the lines of the Learie Constantine case:


Clicky (http://www.100greatblackbritons.com/bios/lord_leary_constantine.html)


Oprah just seems to be a whiny rich bitch, stamping her feet because she hasn't got her way.

She went to the store after it had closed for REGULAR business hours. It was holding a private event after-hours. She didn't get in because people not associated with the event weren't allowed in. Also, the french showed a good deal more tolerant attitude towards blacks during WW1 despite white American urging to do otherwise

quite, Americans have no right to lecture any other developed nation on racsism, this is the country which is today still massivly segregated and until the 60s didn't even allow people to vote.

Americans make a big deal about winning their freedom from the "opressive" British but remember that the British Empire was the first major power to outlaw slavery completly, they were quickly followed by all the other European powers and yet america the so called "Land of the Free" kept slavery until the mid 1860s

Alas so.

No!! Not alas. He pwns.

Who is Trisha?

There you go :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/365000/images/_365610_trisha_goddard150.jpg

Talk show host like Springer, not as well known though.

Seems to have a bit of a cult following though.

until the 60s didn't even allow people to vote.


You mean black people, right?

You're still wrong, but, hey, since when did the "wE h8 am3r1ca" crew ever need facts when they have prejudice?

That was the old movie. The new one was acctually pretty bad ass in parts. I actually wouldn't say that it was particularly about race, but rather the interplay of the small kindnesses and evils we do for and to each other across the larger tapestry of society.

So there are no sex scenes when one of the participants is handicapped?

Shame :(

Films today.

I've heard this more than once...

Q: "If you leave Paris and go in a straight line, what's the first African city you will see?"

A: "Marsailles".

quite, Americans have no right to lecture any other developed nation on racsism, this is the country which is today still massivly segregated and until the 60s didn't even allow people to vote.



African American Men Get the Vote

In 1866, the 14th Amendment to the federal Constitution was passed, guaranteeing citizenship to the former slaves and changing them in the eyes of the law from 3/5 of a person to whole persons. Then, in 1869, the 15th Amendment guaranteed the right to vote to black men, with most women of all races still unable to vote.

1869 also marked the beginning of "Black Codes," or state laws that restricted the freedoms of African Americans. Among the freedoms restricted was the freedom to exercise the right to vote. Literacy tests, poll taxes, hiding the locations of the polls, economic pressures, threats of physical violence, and other strategies to suppress the African American vote were either found in the Black Codes or flowed from them.

*edited to add. I got this from a history site but I cannot remember which one. I'm thinking more about getting poked with about 20 needles this morning for blood tests. YEAH BLOOD TESTS! (faints) *

African American Men Get the Vote

In 1866, the 14th Amendment to the federal Constitution was passed, guaranteeing citizenship to the former slaves and changing them in the eyes of the law from 3/5 of a person to whole persons. Then, in 1869, the 15th Amendment guaranteed the right to vote to black men, with most women of all races still unable to vote.

1869 also marked the beginning of "Black Codes," or state laws that restricted the freedoms of African Americans. Among the freedoms restricted was the freedom to exercise the right to vote. Literacy tests, poll taxes, hiding the locations of the polls, economic pressures, threats of physical violence, and other strategies to suppress the African American vote were either found in the Black Codes or flowed from them.

The Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments went into abeyance from 1876 (with the election of President Hayes) to 1954, the Republican Party having promised to end Reconstruction measures, in particular pertaining to black rights, in order to get their man into the White House. You all know what followed, with "Jim Crow" segregation laws. They were unconstitutional, but they happened.

African American Men Get the Vote

In 1866, the 14th Amendment to the federal Constitution was passed, guaranteeing citizenship to the former slaves and changing them in the eyes of the law from 3/5 of a person to whole persons. Then, in 1869, the 15th Amendment guaranteed the right to vote to black men, with most women of all races still unable to vote.

1869 also marked the beginning of "Black Codes," or state laws that restricted the freedoms of African Americans. Among the freedoms restricted was the freedom to exercise the right to vote. Literacy tests, poll taxes, hiding the locations of the polls, economic pressures, threats of physical violence, and other strategies to suppress the African American vote were either found in the Black Codes or flowed from them.


He may have been talking about the 1860's, you know... :D

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.


Oprah Winfrey says race may have played a part in a situation at Paris store (http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=3513703)

PARIS Oprah Winfrey says a situation at an upscale Paris store was "one of the most humiliating moments of her life."

That's according to Winfrey's best friend Gayle King. She spoke with "Entertainment Tonight" and says Oprah was not allowed in the store, despite the fact people were still inside shopping. Gayle adds that Winfrey's "O-K," but will no longer shop where her business is not appreciated.

Winfrey has suggested the situation was racial. Her spokeswoman tells The Associated Press that Winfrey plans to discuss her "Crash" moment when her show returns to the air in September. "Crash" is a film dealing with race relations.

The store, meantime, has apologized to Winfrey for any "misunderstanding" the circumstances caused. The store maintains it was closed for a public relations event when Winfrey came knocking.


Aww c'mon Eutrusca. I highly doubt her race had anything what so ever to do with this.

He may have been talking about the 1860's, you know... :D

I highly doubt it :D

Aww c'mon Eutrusca. I highly doubt her race had anything what so ever to do with this.


I agree with you.

recent example in sports. National Basketball Association. The head of the players union Billy Hunter cries foul and out pops the RACISM CARD because the owners wanted to raise the age limit in their league to 20 years of age.

I agree with you.

recent example in sports. National Basketball Association. The head of the players union Billy Hunter cries foul and out pops the RACISM CARD because the owners wanted to raise the age limit in their league to 20 years of age.


People will be fed up with that cry of racism being thrown around so lightly.. one day. Many are already fed up with it. It will take some time before so many stop "bowing down" to it though.

This isnt America, you can't just sue people because they hurt your feelings
That's for sure!

So in summary: Oprah is denied entry to a store because it is closed and she is not known well enough to considered a celebrity and afforded special treatment.

Even if this action was somehow rascist it was performed be a few people who do not represent the feelings of the entire French nation.

Kind of a pointless thread in my opinion.

Well, it is one of Eutrusca's article threads, after all...

/Knows who Oprah is. Knows she's nobody outside North America.

Well, it is one of Eutrusca's article threads, after all...

/Knows who Oprah is. Knows she's nobody outside North America.

I've never understood how someone can go from: "a private business refused service at one location on one occasion to one person"

and stretch that into:

"everyone in that country is a racist"

Well, I suppose that's the American thing to do. Get refused service at a restaurant - once - and all you have to do is find a civil rights lawyer who can find a category for you (senior citizen, obese, disabled, gay, person of color, etc.).

There is always about 20% racist people in any society.

There is always about 20% racist people in any society.

And your evidence of this?

Ihatevacations']A company should, there is this thing called cable tv. American celcebrities are some of the most known people in the world.
Not Oprah. She's a media mogul but not that well known outside the US (unless you watch Letterman). A fact that she may not have considered when visiting Paris.

And your evidence of this?
80% of statistics say so :)

Meh, just sounds like another celebrity crying over some BS to me

80% of statistics say so :)

5 out of 4 people are bad at statistics. ;)

French is an English word that relate to France that was purged in America a little while ago in relation to Fries and Wine because of issues some Americans had with France.

That was my point, and by that I agree, English-speaking people who purge these words from existence in the language are purging English words but also purging words which relate to French people, which French people have been accused of doing to the English words or influence in their language.

I should add however, that the English language does have French influences in it, that most people do not tend to realise.

PS. The term 'France' comes from the French calling their country 'La France' so I would say that in itself is French influence and concept of calling France by.

I guess that what I failed to clarify is that "France" is considered as the proper name for the geographical and historical territorry and its adjective (isn't it - never was good with grammar!) "French" to signify things/ concepts derived from or having to do with "France". In effect it is now devoid of its original meaning, in the more ethnocentric sense. Even if the French make slight changes in its writing and/ or pronounciation in the future, the English language might not adopt it right away, or maybe even not at all.

Trivial Fact: The name modernday Greeks use for France is actually "Gallia", which is the Roman name for the general area of France and old Roman province, which was once inhabited by Gauls. The Byzantines (a Hellenized version of Rome, in some ways) kept calling it so even after the fall of Rome and its beeing conquered by the Franks, because it stated their claim on it as an imperial province. Afetr the fall of Byzantium the Greek people felt so alienated in the vast and crass Ottoman Empire that they clung and refused to change or adopt anything new to anything that was Greek, including their language.

She went to the store after it had closed for REGULAR business hours. It was holding a private event after-hours. She didn't get in because people not associated with the event weren't allowed in. Also, the french showed a good deal more tolerant attitude towards blacks during WW1 despite white American urging to do otherwise

The reason she was not let in was because she was american not black. Everything has to be racist.

Well I know a lot of French people and I can tell you, generally they are not racist. When they are racist, this is usually targeted to people from the Maghred (Algerians, Moroccans), because of immigration issues. I have never seen any French person being racist with black people though. Black people are very present in the French society, and a lot of them come from former colonies and are fully integrated into the culture.
There was also some racism towards eastern europeans (Romanians and Polish mostly). But it has abated.
The situation is very different from the US. Different history, different relationships between people and different perception when it comes to skin color.

Now, I can say one negative thing. The French people are STILL generally very "colonial" in their perception of the world. If you come from Quebec, Mauritius or some other former colonies... they will consider you inferior, and talk to you like you're a kid. Sometimes it's not immediate, but it will eventually surface in whatever situation. It's extremely annoying, especially when you consider the fact that Quebec's economy and social order work WAY BETTER than the mess they have in France. But they're snob when it comes to accents. Accent = Inferior.

Well I know a lot of French people and I can tell you, generally they are not racist. When they are racist, this is usually targeted to people from the Maghred (Algerians, Moroccans), because of immigration issues.
That and the fact they cause a great deal of crime in and around Marsaille.


I have never seen any French person being racist with black people though. Black people are very present in the French society, and a lot of them come from former colonies and are fully integrated into the culture.
There was also some racism towards eastern europeans (Romanians and Polish mostly). But it has abated.


You forgot the English. A Scottish driver once told me he was getting the evil eye and almost spat on by a shop owner. She muttered somthing about English and he looked at her and said "Madame! I am Scottish! Not English!" She started hugging him after that. ;)


The situation is very different from the US. Different history, different relationships between people and different perception when it comes to skin color.

Now, I can say one negative thing. The French people are STILL generally very "colonial" in their perception of the world. If you come from Quebec, Mauritius or some other former colonies... they will consider you inferior, and talk to you like you're a kid. Sometimes it's not immediate, but it will eventually surface in whatever situation. It's extremely annoying, especially when you consider the fact that Quebec's economy and social order work WAY BETTER than the mess they have in France. But they're snob when it comes to accents. Accent = Inferior.

Maybe I was lucky when I was in France. I didn't get that at all. I tried to be polite and friendly and got it in return. Got a few jokes because I am alergic to dairy. "Now you see why we don't like Americans!" :D

Other then that people were nice......

Maybe I was lucky when I was in France. I didn't get that at all. I tried to be polite and friendly and got it in return. Got a few jokes because I am alergic to dairy. "Now you see why we don't like Americans!"
But you didn't speak French, did you?
As long as you speak English, it's OK - they won't consider you a "colonial". Now speak French with a foreign accent, bingo! A French guy once said to me than Quebeckers speak like little negroes. It was rude, insulting, and 2x racist.

But you didn't speak French, did you?
As long as you speak English, it's OK - they won't consider you a "colonial". Now speak French with a foreign accent, bingo! A French guy once said to me than Quebeckers speak like little negroes. It was rude, insulting, and 2x racist.

Wow!

A whole other world to me. But you are correct. Don't speak French.....

80% of statistics say so :)


Yeah, but 86,7% of statistics are made on the spot :p

Another ideologically driven attempt to ridicule the French and insult them down as irrevelant in world politics.

Yaawn.

This is so going in my "your OP is my cite" file.

Please note the big, red words in my sig.

She showed up after hours, coupled with the fact that no one in france gives a shit who she is.

Just out of interest why does this threat inclued racism in it's title? Surely this thread is just flame bait.

If Opera was prevented from shopping because her colour then that simply makes the French no different from any other people in the world the USA included.

meh, Europeans don't much care for Africans and Arabs in general right now. There are a lot of social issues surrounding these groups in virtually every major city. I thought it was stupid and racist for a long time too.

But over New Years weekend, I was beaten up FOR NO REASON (they didn't even mug me; at least then there'd have been a point) by a group of North Africans in Brussels. Two days later, a different group badly beat a friend of mine in a similar situation. Neither of us had done anything to provoke these attacks.

If I was a buisness owner in Brussels or Paris, I'd be wary of African-looking people too.

That was then. This is now. I say the "private event" excuse is bogus.
The only thing suggesting that this was a racist incident was that Oprah has a hunch that it was.

Your thread realy comes across as more of an excuse to bash the French than anything worthwhile.

The US refuses entry of foreigners in its own soil, when there are other foreigners living in the US! The US is racist!


duhhh! And you know, Oprah is vewy popular for US housewives, but she isnt so great in Europe. Probably, they didnt recognize her, or if they did, they didnt considered her to be much.

Whether or not the store in question acted out of rascism will likely never be known in full truth given testimony from the mouth of Oprah. If she was snubbed, its all to easy for her or any of her publicists to use that trump card as an excuse. Unless there is actual proof of this being an act of rascist intolerance, I would regard these claims as being frivolous at best.

Secondly, even if the act was rascist... it gives no one the right to use it against the populace of an entire nation (isn't that just a little predjudiced and hypocritical Eutrusca?) The act of one store is the act of those running the store... not indicative of an entire nation, with that in mind, I would like to say that I could well mention a lot of incredibly compelling arguments that would pit the entire world against the US for similar (and factual) injustices. In doing so I would not have proven, however, that everyone in the US was a bigot... only those in the examples given on a personal basis.

I know you have some personal conflicts with the nation, but theres no need for a smear campaign. Honestly... this is ridiculous.

I can't believe all the media coverage this story is getting. What the hell is wrong with the world when the fact that Oprah is denied entrance to a fancy store overshadows other more important, more newsworthy stories?

Yeah, she is an icon. If i had a store and was already planning something, and Oprah just showed up, i would have denied her too. Every client is important, and if i am planning something else, well i don't care who she is, she's just going to have to wait. if she had called in advance, i may have made some arrangements for her. maybe.

Yes she has money. and her wearing my merchandise is publicity you can't buy. but on that basis, people are supposed to drop everything? Get real. some people are not impressed by star power, nor should they be.

Another case of the classic: "Oh-I'm-denied-something-so-it-must-be-my-skin-colour" syndrome. Which is why giving special rights to special people is so bad. They will sometimes come back to bite you at the wrong times. I don't think Oprah was denied access because of skin colour. I think it was her mass entourage.

The US refuses entry of foreigners in its own soil, when there are other foreigners living in the US! The US is racist!


:confused: Huh?

:confused: Huh?

I believe he is refering to America's anti-immigrant sentiments both in the past andthe present despite the fact that nearly all Americans were mmigrants since not that long ago

The only thing suggesting that this was a racist incident was that Oprah has a hunch that it was.

Your thread realy comes across as more of an excuse to bash the French than anything worthwhile.
( shrug ) So sue me. :p

I believe he is refering to America's anti-immigrant sentiments both in the past andthe present despite the fact that nearly all Americans were mmigrants since not that long ago

Er, okay, but the US doesn't turn away immigrants...

( shrug ) So sue me. :p

Does that mean that, next time I hear an isolated (probably fabricated) incident of alleged racism by an American, if I started a thread saying all Americans are racists, you would post in that thread to say you agree with me? :p

Just to add a final point: i also thought the title was a bit infammatory, but considering the type of media coverage this has been receiving in the US, i must say i am not surprised. they all seem to mention the racism card...

Does that mean that, next time I hear an isolated (probably fabricated) incident of alleged racism by an American, if I started a thread saying all Americans are racists, you would post in that thread to say you agree with me? :p
But of course! All Americans are racist. So are all Europeans, Asians, Africans, South Americans, etc. :p

Uh huh, and the aliens that are on their way to exterminate us are racist too. But when you think about it, racism isn't entirely bad, after all it keeps people from going too far, it keeps us in check and makes sure that everything we say to another race is fucked up and wrong, ain't humanity grand???

I say to hell with it all, as long as your human, or a domesticated animal, your ok in my book, unless you're like a domestic bug, than your not cool, or virus.

Er, okay, but the US doesn't turn away immigrants...actually the US does. There is an application that needs to be filled out to gain entry (visas, Green Cards, work permits, student permits, ect.) We can't accept everyone, and the more... visibly heard cases are those that try to get here from Cuba that gets turned away.

as for Oprah, I agree that the store has the right to close it's door early for a Private Function (all reports indicate that the store was closed for such a function) and once closed, it can keep it's doors closed to anyone. I call it Egotistical on Oprah's part to think that just because she spends millions there and is such a Star ( :rolleyes: ) that people should bend the rules just for her.

But of course! All Americans are racist. So are all Europeans, Asians, Africans, South Americans, etc. :p

You should start a thread saying so. ;)

Er, okay, but the US doesn't turn away immigrants...

I haven't read up on it to much but there were immigrant quotas at one point and we do turn away immigrants how else would there be illegal aliens?

actually the US does. There is an application that needs to be filled out to gain entry (visas, Green Cards, work permits, student permits, ect.) We can't accept everyone, and the more... visibly heard cases are those that try to get here from Cuba that gets turned away.


I can't think of many countries I'd WANT to live in that don't have SOME immigration process. Do you know what it takes to become a German or Swiss citizen??

As for Cuba, that's a special case. Alone among nation, Cubans (due to the Revolution) that make it onto American SOIL are allowed to stay as refugees. It's a screwy system:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/10/30/immigration.rules/

While critics complain that Haitians such as the 200 who waded and swam ashore Tuesday after their boat hit ground off the coast of Florida are not treated as well as Cubans, the fact is that no other nationalities get the treatment Cubans do.

"We always give preference to people fleeing communist countries," said Leon Wildes, a longtime immigration attorney based in New York. "Unfortunately, the application of asylum laws isn't equal."

The treatment of Cubans stems from the early 1960s, when it was assumed that Fidel Castro would quickly fall from power. The United States took special administrative measures to welcome any Cuban who could get to this country.

-snip-
Americans make a big deal about winning their freedom from the "opressive" British but remember that the British Empire was the first major power to outlaw slavery completly, they were quickly followed by all the other European powers and yet america the so called "Land of the Free" kept slavery until the mid 1860s
Thats not entirely true France abolished slavery and the brought it back.

I think the shop had a no pushy American policy not a no Black policy.

I can't think of many countries I'd WANT to live in that don't have SOME immigration process. Do you know what it takes to become a German or Swiss citizen??
I have read somewhere that the only 2 countries having an open immigration policy were Canada and Australia. And Australia has been hardening its rules recently.

To become Canadian citizen, you have to pass through a process that takes about 1-2 years max if you come from a friendly country (UK, France, Italy for instance). If you come from Russia or Algeria, it can take up to 5-7 years.
The process is much faster if you are an investor or if you speak French (because of Quebec's special immigration clause).

Becoming citizen of most other countries is much more complicated. The US has quotas and restrictions (although it is still possible to get through the process). France doesn't want immigrants, period: their civil servants tell you to get lost, if you ever ask. Switzerland and the Netherlands are as closed as iron safes.

To become Canadian citizen, you have to pass through a process that takes about 1-2 years max if you come from a friendly country (UK, France, Italy for instance). If you come from Russia or Algeria, it can take up to 5-7 years.
The process is much faster if you are an investor or if you speak French (because of Quebec's special immigration clause).
That's even true in America. I have a friend from England and he became an american citizen in 1.5 years. But i'm from Russia and it took 5 years, and this was pre 9/11.

1) The store was closed to set up a function. CLOSED. As in, you know, not open. So there were people inside shopping. So what? We had a clear policy at the shop where I used to work, that at closing time no more customers would be allowed in, but those already in the store should be allowed to finish making their purchases.

2) Oprah Winfrey isn't famous in Europe. I've never even seen what she looks like, and I'm betting I'm not the only one. If she didn't call ahead to tell the store she was coming, they would have no reason whatsoever to let her in.

3) The accusations of racism are ridiculous. You weren't pandered too and treated specially over and above the rest of the public? Cry racism! There is next to no evidence that this was motivated by race at all. And as for the friend who is quoted as saying it was "one of the most humiliating moments of her life", I wish I had her life. Please, ladies, just deal with it.

4) Even if this was a racist incident (which seems VERY unlikely), it does not make the French people as a whole racist. That's like seeing one redheaded German girl and rushing on here to make a thread entitled "I knew that German women look a lot like lesbians, but redheaded too?". :p

5) This thread is flamebait. Blatantly.

I agree with your first 3 points.
But why dosent she give all of France a car each?

NOTE: Ever since the French started that stupid campaign to prevent English words and phrases from "corrupting" their language, I've figured them for being excessively ethnocentric. But I never really thought of them as racist ... until now.


Oprah Winfrey says race may have played a part in a situation at Paris store (http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=3513703)

PARIS Oprah Winfrey says a situation at an upscale Paris store was "one of the most humiliating moments of her life."

That's according to Winfrey's best friend Gayle King. She spoke with "Entertainment Tonight" and says Oprah was not allowed in the store, despite the fact people were still inside shopping. Gayle adds that Winfrey's "O-K," but will no longer shop where her business is not appreciated.

Winfrey has suggested the situation was racial. Her spokeswoman tells The Associated Press that Winfrey plans to discuss her "Crash" moment when her show returns to the air in September. "Crash" is a film dealing with race relations.

The store, meantime, has apologized to Winfrey for any "misunderstanding" the circumstances caused. The store maintains it was closed for a public relations event when Winfrey came knocking.

If French was the dominant language of the world, it'd be red-faced chauvinists like you who fought to death to keep the US English-only. Also, if you generalize that all French people are racists because of one possibly racist incident that a celebrity recounted, I shudder to think what you would judge Americans as based on our history of segregation, lynching and institutionalized racially motivated brutality.