NationStates Jolt Archive

This sucks. In the 60's one could buy gas at 29 cents a gallon for premium, now if your really lucky you can can gas for $2.29 for premium. I dont know what to say about Alaska, but Im leaning towards drilling, the local community up their is poor and this would create jobs, as for wildlife, well I just dont know if its right. But what does everyone think is the best answer to our gas problem?

It's about $2 here for regular unleaded...... :(

It's about $2 here for regular unleaded...... :(

That actually sounds pretty good from here where its 2.25 for regular.

The best answer is to get the oil industry a little competition somehow. We don't necessarily have to replace oil outright, but if people have a choice between oil and, I don't know, coal to power their cars, and maybe throw in something like ethanol for good measure, then the oil industry might be a little more on its toes.

Well, I can get premium for about 2.19 at the new chevron that opened yesterday, but i live in Houston, so gas is always cheap compared to places like California, but the high gas prices are just another reason why i don't yet have a car.

The best answer is to get the oil industry a little competition somehow. We don't necessarily have to replace oil outright, but if people have a choice between oil and, I don't know, coal to power their cars, and maybe throw in something like ethanol for good measure, then the oil industry might be a little more on its toes.

Well granted competition is a good idea but the oil inustry is already suffering, more people are taking trains and buses and buying hybrids, also Coal is not going to help that problem with your '94 Buicks' AC ;)

The best answer is to get the oil industry a little competition somehow. We don't necessarily have to replace oil outright, but if people have a choice between oil and, I don't know, coal to power their cars, and maybe throw in something like ethanol for good measure, then the oil industry might be a little more on its toes.

No we do need to replace oil outright, what with pollution and whatnot. Besides, the industry isn't just jacking up the prices for the heck of it...oil is becoming harder and harder to find...much less maintain a long-term supply.

Coal...you want to use coal...ai yai yai...*sigh*

That's what you get for NOT investing in commodities.

I mean, think about it; those kinds of good are always in demand and it keeps the market price stable. The people who invested are laughing all the way to the bank. I know someone who loves watching the price go up (and yes, he drives).

juat guess how much of that price per gallon is tax....

Competition is not the problem, it is supply and demand. Other nations want more and the US has not grown it's capacity to refine - resulting effectively in less. The recipe for higher prices.

I live on the gulf coast of FL and I'm all for offshore drilling. I hope they build a refinery nearby too. The nation could use one and the jobs are good.

Also, this pretty much rules out the Iraq for cheap oil argument.

Meanwhile, I'm all for alt. fuels - particularly solar. Did anyone else here about the new solar electric cells which just got developed which are supposed to be as eficient but cost much less than the current technology?

Let's get the drills moving in Alaska.....

I live in VA, and regular is hoovering around $2. It seems cheaper here than a lot of other places.

Drilling in Alaska is a short term fix, I think. We calculated in my enviromental science class that if the US drilled in Alaska, the oil there would only last us a year and 3 months. But that is if Alaska oil is the only source used on a daily basis.

I've been studying hydrogen fuel cell, and that seems pretty promising.

Sucks to be you guys... gas was only $1.89 here today - which is incredible lately - and a couple weeks ago it was down to $1.66. Unleaded that is.

Hands of the wilderness, folks! Try conservation, alternative energy sources, mass transportation, or how about just SLOWING DOWN (remember 55 mph?). Wild places are precious and irreplacable. There are no alternative sources of wilderness.

I got to see the entire range of gas prices a couple of weeks ago when I drove from California to Florida, and there was surprisingly little variation. The most I paid was in L.A., where I paid $2.49 for the cheapest fuel, and the least I paid was $1.94 in Mississippi. Most of the time, I paid between $2.15 and $2.30 a gallon, and when you're driving a 14 foot UHaul, that adds up quick. In 5 days, I estimate I spent between $800 and $900 on fuel alone.

Damn, $2.29 for premium? That expensive stuff?

That's like...cheaper than the cheapest gas you can get here in California.

Ahahaha, I think I found the lowest of the day in the Kansas City area today.....right before it went up (it's at $2.29 by my boyfriend's house, much higher in the affluent area I live (he's got a cheap apartment)), I caught it at $2.06

Living right near the state line helps, as well....at least in my area, it's cheaper my a few cents a gallon to hop across to Missouri.

Why don't you all quit whining and enjoy living in a country in which gas is ridiculously cheap?
1. Petrol is cheaper than milk. Usually.
2. Is a gallon about 4.55 litres? If yes, then..hmm, in Germany you would pay about 1.32 Euro for a litre, so that would make 5.99 Euro a gallon, then you'd pay US$7.20. For Premium Unleaded.

So really, living in the US is a good thing when it comes to petrol.
Quit complaining and drive your Hummers... :p

Regular here is around $2.50-$2.60. Makes me glad I don't own a car.

Why don't you all quit whining and enjoy living in a country in which gas is ridiculously cheap?
1. Petrol is cheaper than milk. Usually.
2. Is a gallon about 4.55 litres? If yes, then..hmm, in Germany you would pay about 1.32 Euro for a litre, so that would make 5.99 Euro a gallon, then you'd pay US$7.20. For Premium Unleaded.

So really, living in the US is a good thing when it comes to petrol.
Quit complaining and drive your Hummers... :p

This has been argued to death. The US needs cheaper gas prices than Europe because it's so much larger and spread out. Europe, for the most, is incredibly densely populated, so it's never really far to get anywhere you might need to go. Going the same distance, you can cross several countries in Europe and not cross a single state here. We're much further from each other.

The thing I find scariest about this situation is that no one seems to mention that all the other things we take for granted in our lives these days that are also petroleum products. Once we burn up all the oil in our gas guzzlers, we are really going to be shocked at how expensive everything else in our lives becomes. And gas in my neck of the woods was $2.04 today.

-snip-
And that is a reason to complain?
Actually if the free market was to take care of things, you'd pay more for petrol than Europe does because, according to you, because your demand is more inelastic.
So from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?

And that is a reason to complain?
Actually if the free market was to take care of things, you'd pay more for petrol than Europe does because, according to you, because your demand is more inelastic.
So from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?

Because a steep increase in price affects us more than it affects you. We buy more gas; we need it to be cheaper in order to function.

Do you have any idea why gas is so much more expensive in Europe to begin with?

And that is a reason to complain?
Actually if the free market was to take care of things, you'd pay more for petrol than Europe does because, according to you, because your demand is more inelastic.
So from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?
Hey, I'm with you. If we paid what the rest of the world pays, we wouldn't have obscenities like the Escalade or the H2 taking up the roads and we just might have workable rapid transit systems outside the dozen cities or so that have them. I'd love to see it happen eventually, but Sdaerji has a point as well--if we were to suddenly have to deal with a massive price hike, it would literally destroy our economy, which is already shaky thanks to shitty fiscal government policy and oil prices reaching nearly $60 a barrel.

So you know why the U.S. war in Iraq was named Operation Iraqi Freedom? Because Operation Iraqi Liberation would have been a little too obvious.

Do you have any idea why gas is so much more expensive in Europe to begin with?
I think so:
a) our government doesn't put cheap oil on the top of its agenda (be it through war or massive pipeline projects)
b) our government takes a tax on every liter bought. I support that, cuz the Government needs that money and due to the pollution, people would drive to much anyway if they didn't have to pay for that externality.
---
And still, "because we need it to function" is still not a reason not to adhere to fundamental principles of supply and demand by having your government/corporations buying tankers full of oil out of Europe to cancel out supply irregularities in the US.
All I'm saying is: Quit whining, $2.50 is nothing, you should be paying a lot more.

Alabel']Hands of the wilderness, folks! Try conservation, alternative energy sources, mass transportation, or how about just SLOWING DOWN (remember 55 mph?). Wild places are precious and irreplacable. There are no alternative sources of wilderness.
While I agree that the wilderness is irreplaceable, and should be touched only as a last resort, I have a few comments about your suggestions.
1: Mass transit. For the vast majority of Americans, mass transit is a last resort for good reason. Most American mass transit systems serve commuters passably at best, managing to equal the cost of suberb to city driving and parking, with approximately the same time. If, however, you need mass transit for anything other than commuting (or commuting somewhere other than the center of the nearest major metropolis) it is more expensive than driving, as well as being less comfortable, more time consuming, much more limited in options (system entry and exit points, wait times at stations, and the like) and more or less completely useless for carrying any more cargo than you would bring in an airplane carry on bag, making it inappropriate for simple errands like grocery shopping.
2: Alternative energy sources. I'm all for these, but they are expensive to switch to, and there is a massive installed user base for petrol. If we threw everything we could at converting to, say, ethanol, it would probably take ten years to fully convert, and the increase in transportation costs resulting from the need for so many people to simultaneously purchase brand new vehicles, and so much infrastructure to convert, would probably bring about a recession. Given that our economy is in the midst of what has been categorized as a jobless recovery, especially for the lower middle and upper bottom, a forced conversion like that might result in great depression levels of unemployment, reduced spending, travel, and the like.
3: (Conservation)Slowing down. It really doesn't matter anymore. My car is six years old, and gets 22 miles to the gallon in the city I have to drive through to get to work. Public transit is impossible, I do in home tech support by appointment. I go through about eighteen gallons a week, and thats with minimal non work related driving. I would drive a more efficient vehicle, but couldn't afford to make the switch, I bought this from a family member, and anything that I could afford and seats five passably (when I go out with friends, we carpool) would have to be newer, and thus more expensive to insure, and repair, probably tripling the savings on gas. If I drive 55 where possible and leave the windows shut, and the AC off (minimize both drag and power consumption, an open window is almost as bad for gas mileage as AC on the highway) I can eke out 23 miles to the gallon as an average per tank. When I drive home to see my folks (200 miles at 80+ miles an hour, AC all the way) I can get that up to 27 or 28 without the AC. I live in a city, there is simply no way to drive economically save buying a car that I cannot afford to own, much less purchase. I carpool where I can, but since I go to jobs alone, and they're typically out in suburbia, the only method of transportation I could afford to replace the car with that would be more economical would be a motorcycle, and that would remove any possibility of carpooling locally, much less purchasing groceries in one trip.
To sum up, while the environment is critically important, the solutions typically proposed by environmentalists are either ineffectual, impossible, or outright ludicrous. The best hope for the future is alternative energy, but even that won't replace oil for other things, like plastics, unless we can deveolp energy on such a scale that molecular-level mass production becomes possible. In the meantime, remember that most people aren't opposed to the wilderness, they simply wiegh the effects at a personal level. If you want to make people care, you have to explain how the loss of wilderness effects them, preferably on a short timescale as well as a long one. I don't mean to be derogatory here, but people have evolved to thing of their own needs first, and immediate needs before long term needs, because both of those helped the species survive. In the meantime, keep working on alternative energy, just be prepared for a rough bunch of decades before it becomes practicable.

I think so:
a) our government doesn't put cheap oil on the top of its agenda (be it through war or massive pipeline projects)
b) our government takes a tax on every liter bought. I support that, cuz the Government needs that money and due to the pollution, people would drive to much anyway if they didn't have to pay for that externality.
---
And still, "because we need it to function" is still not a reason not to adhere to fundamental principles of supply and demand by having your government/corporations buying tankers full of oil out of Europe to cancel out supply irregularities in the US.
All I'm saying is: Quit whining, $2.50 is nothing, you should be paying a lot more.
It wouldn't be nearly as big a deal if the public transit here was anything like what I saw last time I was in Europe (Outside of Brussels, christmas 1999). You guys have it at least as nice in that regard as we do with the subsidies.

You guys have it at least as nice in that regard as we do with the subsidies.
So I say: Use that subsidy money and put it into mass transit systems. Sure, you'll still have to drive if you live on a farm, but in the cities you don't need to drive.

It wouldn't be nearly as big a deal if the public transit here was anything like what I saw last time I was in Europe (Outside of Brussels, christmas 1999). You guys have it at least as nice in that regard as we do with the subsidies.

Well, build one yourself. We have functioning mass-transport systems in a close net all over Europe, there is hardly ANY place at all you can't get to if you don't have a car, so why don't you start investing in one?

edit:

Just for the record : I don't own a car and never saw the need to even get a driver's licence.

Actually Gas is just going back up over here. After hitting highs of 2.59 for REGULAR, it dropped as "low" as 2.19. Of course, this is the cheapest price in town, where you have to have special membership to Costco...

This sucks. In the 60's one could buy gas at 29 cents a gallon for premium, now if your really lucky you can can gas for $2.29 for premium. I dont know what to say about Alaska, but Im leaning towards drilling, the local community up their is poor and this would create jobs, as for wildlife, well I just dont know if its right. But what does everyone think is the best answer to our gas problem?

Um... it's been $2+ for about eighteen months now. In March, it hit (locally) $2.70 per gallon for Exxon Medium grade.
It's down around $2.17-$2.19 in Western Washington this morning, for Arco Unleaded.

There are a couple of major contributing factors that don't get reported on much-the decline in Refinerys (both capacity, and number of refineries) in the U.S. has been steep between 1993, and the present year-Washington State used to have three in the Anacortes area alone-there's one, now, and it's operating at 1/2 capacity (the other half being a superfund site.), and said refinery is servicing a region that's larger than it used to be (closures in other parts of the state over the last fifteen years.)

The second factor does get some media attention-at least, in the business pages. China and India are industrializing as fast as they can, and have, this year, for the first time, put a sizeable dent in the market-supply. their demand levels are skyrocketing, and they have the $$$$ to buy it on the wholesale market at prices many private outfits can't compete with.

I just laught a bit when I see topics like this, Americans complaining about gas prices. It's extremely rare that it's even below $5, here in Norway. :p And it's not uncommon that it goes above $6.

We buy more gas; we need it to be cheaper in order to function.

Ah, so because you use more gas, you need to use more gas. What about trying to use less? :)

I just laught a bit when I see topics like this, Americans complaining about gas prices. It's extremely rare that it's even below $5, here in Norway. :p And it's not uncommon that it goes above $6.



Ah, so because you use more gas, you need to use more gas. What about trying to use less? :)

the shortest commute-to-a-job I've ever had is the one I'm doing right now-twenty miles. This is not unusual. The U.S. is pretty big, that is, very big. Norway is pretty good sized, but it's narrow. Attempts to force people onto public transit aren't that great an idea, when a "Short" commute is twenty miles on the highway, and takes twenty-five to thirty minutes each way at an average of sixty miles per hour.

A lot of the difference comes down to scale, and the rest to culture. Here in Western Washington, it's not unusual to live in Bellingham, and commute to work in Renton (Two and a half hours without traffic at 65 to 70 mph). It's even less unusual to live in Ferndale (Population <35,000), and make that commute. Guess, just guess, where all the Regional and Public transit routes are located?

Yup, South and Central Seattle, this is in King County (Forty miles south of my location, which is Everett's north side), and Pierce County. To grant you some persective, it's about like living in Paris, and driving to Berlin every day to go to work.

Why does this state of affairs exist? because housing prices in Seattle and N. King County are bloody insane, while the wages of non-microsofties are... well, not that great.
In a state with a high minimum wage, few jobs are much higher than that minimum, and those that are, are pursued aggressively (Recent experience-interview at Kimberly-Clark paper plant down the street-five guys who used to work for a shut-down mill in Bellingham and still live in the Anacortes area, and me, a former aviation tech. done in panels, we were the first group of interviewees, out of nearly 200 yet to go-and that was one of ten for applicants... for a job running paper machines!)

If your average wage (removing Microsoft) is 25,000 a year, and it costs 875 to 950 for two bedrooms in a rotting building in the cheap end of town...
or, you could pay that same amount for a Mortgage and own your own place with a yard and everything-but drive to work. Which is it?

That's just locally here in W. Washington. In other states (Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Colorado...) it's even MORE obvious. European standards are fundamentally different-the terrain each nation covers is smaller, the range of climates is smaller (nation for nation), the population is more "Urban" and has been for centuries. it's also significantly less mobile. In my own lifetime, I've lived and worked across a range of raw territory greater than most of mainland Europe combined-each place was "Permanent until I move again." and this situation is not unique-the economy goes bad, you move. Want a better home, or a better home for the money you're able to make? yah, move. Whole regions depend on that migration since EPA and GATT closed the local industries down, or Federal land use regs prevented industries from forming.
this is very, very different from Europe's cities, or even Village cultures. Survival in Modern America is the ability to get from one place to another without relying on someone else's whimsical ideas. The busses here in Everett, Wa. don't run 24/7, they don't run at hours useful for factory work (the only kind that pays unless you're a 133t h4xx0r) that runs more than day-shifts, or has a thing called "overtime".
Likewise, "Park and ride" schemes have created a booming underground business in the contents of looted and stolen cars-stolen from the park-and-ride lot, where they sit unprotected from property-crime for eight to twelve hours a day.
Apartment living is one-step-below livng in a Trailer Park unless you're in possession of somethign called a "Bachelor's Degree". My point is, from your "Lens" of culture, this doesn't look like a big deal. I'd expect you would have a different view, however, if you found some critical resource was being up-priced without which, you can't maintain what independence you have.

-SNIP!-
Apartment living is one-step-below livng in a Trailer Park unless you're in possession of somethign called a "Bachelor's Degree". My point is, from your "Lens" of culture, this doesn't look like a big deal. I'd expect you would have a different view, however, if you found some critical resource was being up-priced without which, you can't maintain what independence you have.

Well said. Except for that BA nonsense. I have one. I can tell you it simply drags you down. Its not like an MA, or an MS, where you actually went to Grad school and can claim some expertise in your field, its an overpriced HS diploma basically. Even worse, employers fear them because they assume you'll want more money and stay with the company for less time.

Guess what? I was unemployed for 2 years after college. BAs don't help you for shit.

(Sorry, ranting.)

BTW, you must live within 40 miles of me. How strange to think of it!

You babies need to quit whining. Gas prices in Germany average about € 4.66 a gallon (1.23 a liter). If you don't want to pay your low prices on gas then don't drive.

Gas was $2.08 here (Kernersville) for regular yesterday. Today it might be $2.11.

Hope it comes down soon.

You babies need to quit whining. Gas prices in Germany average about € 4.66 a gallon (1.23 a liter). If you don't want to pay your low prices on gas then don't drive.


Have cut down on my driving. But lots can't, they gotta drive to work sometimes quite a bit of miles. I feel for those I see on the highway driving them big gas hogs.. but maybe they got the money to dish out for it.

All I can say on this issue is prepare yourselves, because gas prices will only continue to climb. The US is the #1 oil consumer, but places like China are coming up fast right behind us. The more countries who demand oil, coupled with the current oil production, allows oil producing nations to raise prices as high as countries are willing to pay. Why should they produce more product, when we'll all pay whatever they ask as long as we can keep driving our cars?
The only solution to this problem is alternative energy sources, such as hydrogen, solar, corn based ethanol, etc etc. Drilling for oil in our nations wildlife habitats accomplishes little, as it would take years to set up and the oil we would acquire wouldn't amount to jack. All this does is further pollute and destroy what little wilderness this country has left.
For all of you out there who say "alternative fuels aren't cost effective" I say, you're right...for the moment. Mark my works though, when gas hits $5 a gallon here in the US you'll beg for hydrogen, and that Escalade will be sitting on your lawn with a FOR SALE sign.

High gas prices, huh. Where I live it's 61¢ unleaded. :p



Per liter.


There are 3.75 liters in a gallon...so that comes out to...:headbang: $2.31.

Explaining why I don't have a car (although other reasons could include that I'm under 18, and don't have enough money to buy one, and live very close to everything, and... ;))

1: Mass transit. For the vast majority of Americans, mass transit is a last resort for good reason. Most American mass transit systems serve commuters passably at best, managing to equal the cost of suberb to city driving and parking, with approximately the same time. If, however, you need mass transit for anything other than commuting (or commuting somewhere other than the center of the nearest major metropolis) it is more expensive than driving, as well as being less comfortable, more time consuming, much more limited in options (system entry and exit points, wait times at stations, and the like) and more or less completely useless for carrying any more cargo than you would bring in an airplane carry on bag, making it inappropriate for simple errands like grocery shopping.

I'm thinking what you need is a system like the Channel Tunnel, only over a whole country. Rather than driving everywhere, drive onto a train which'll carry you, in your car, where you need to go. Or at least, within driving distance.

It has the advantage of being faster, due to the fact that trains don't have to worry about hitting the train in front of them, swerving off the road, or traffic jams. It saves on fuel, or at least on car fuel. I couldn't comment on the pricing, but if it was a viable option, it would /have/ to be cheap just to get people to use it. The only problem, really, is the waiting time, which should be cancelled out by the time gained.

It has the advantage of being faster, due to the fact that trains don't have to worry about hitting the train in front of them, swerving off the road, or traffic jams.

Who says trains don't have to worry about hitting the ones in front of them? If it moves, someone will find a way to crash it. Even by accident. =p

...another reason not to buy an SUV...

Just like too say that you are lucky to live in the US. Here in Sweden the price is roughly $5.3/gallon(If I got my calculations right).

I just laught a bit when I see topics like this, Americans complaining about gas prices. It's extremely rare that it's even below $5, here in Norway. :p And it's not uncommon that it goes above $6.


Same prob there. But still, you have your own oil, so it doesn't figure.

This sucks. In the 60's one could buy gas at 29 cents a gallon for premium, now if your really lucky you can can gas for $2.29 for premium. I dont know what to say about Alaska, but Im leaning towards drilling, the local community up their is poor and this would create jobs, as for wildlife, well I just dont know if its right. But what does everyone think is the best answer to our gas problem?
Europe has been paying this sort of price for gasoline for many years. I'm no great fan of drilling in wildlife preserves, but if it can be done with minimal impact I'm probably going to support it.

Just another question from a european (swed) if the gasprices is so tough for your american (be it becase of distance or that ever) why don't you drive fuel effecient cars or diesel cars? Because I been in Amercia and you have really huge cars.

I can figure out diffrent reason one is basic survival, because even if smaller cars (or european size) is safer then big cars generally (less roll overs, lot safer in crashers with same size cars and hitting solid objects) they get to be more unsafe or atleast feel more unsafe if the streets is packed with big cars. So people buy big cars because they feel safe in then making people in smaller cars feel less safe forcing them to buy bigger cars ending up with a lot more unsafe trafic (think of the pedestrians and bicycles too) and also increasing the demand for gas.

Also the car companies is very heavily marketing big cars in America both because they are comperably cheap to make and don't have to live up to as mutch standars (if they classed as trucks). And at the same time easy to sell on a high price because of marketing and adding some cool futures that makes people wanting to buy them.

So if the price on gase is relative cheap like in America people can buy really big cars and the car companies earn alot of money while both the enviroment is hurt at the sametime as American security. Because you get more and more dependent on cheap gas at the sametime gas prices is going up.

Just like too say that you are lucky to live in the US. Here in Sweden the price is roughly $5.3/gallon(If I got my calculations right).



Same prob there. But still, you have your own oil, so it doesn't figure.
Norway is actually a net oil exporter, but gas prices are high there because they decided to use oil revenues for the public benefit and provided an excellent mass transit system in lieu of cheap gas. Pretty far-sighted if you ask me.

Gas isn't so bad in the US, or so I'm told. At least when it's compared to other countries. In Canada gas costs $0.87/litre, just for the record US gas prices convert to $0.54/litre. Canadian gas is cheap compared to other places too, apparently in the Netherlands it costs $1.66/litre.

Note: All prices are in Canadian dollars.

Gas here is about 91 cents per litre which if my math is right it is about $3.44 per gallon. That to me is FREAKING INSANE. We shouldn't have to pay close to a dollar a litre. The solution my friends is ethonal. From corn. Especially for farmers. They grow there own corn and produce there own fuel. They can use it to fuel tractors, and there regular modes of transportaion. IT is a win win situation and it isn't bad for the enviorment.

And to the coal guy.... :headbang: *sigh* u scare me

Gas prices are high because the US doesn't have enough refineries to keep a supply cushion large enough to keep prices down. We need more refineries in the US to reduce the cost, but the costs and restrictions placed on them make it economically difficult to establish them. There haven'n been any new refineries built since the 1970's, and gas demand has risen while overall production falls. We need to convert the closed military bases in to refineries, build more pipelines, and convert oil/natural gas plants to coal or nuclear. Higher mileage standards should also be imposed, and the ridiculuous California gasoline standards should be relaxed until new refineries are established (they severely tax refinery capacity).

Gas here is about 91 cents per litre which if my math is right it is about $3.44 per gallon. That to me is FREAKING INSANE. We shouldn't have to pay close to a dollar a litre. The solution my friends is ethonal. From corn. Especially for farmers. They grow there own corn and produce there own fuel. They can use it to fuel tractors, and there regular modes of transportaion. IT is a win win situation and it isn't bad for the enviorment.

The amount of energy used to actually produce, transport, and supply the ethanol actually makes it cost more energy than it supplies to the consumer. Extracting oil through depolymerization seems to be the best bet for synthetic oil.

Gas was $2.08 here (Kernersville) for regular yesterday. Today it might be $2.11.

Hope it comes down soon.
You live in KERNERSVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA???? So do I! Wow! :D

In Australia, it's about A$1.08/LT in my local area, which makes it about US$3.61/gallon.

Consider yourselves lucky!

You live in KERNERSVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA???? So do I! Wow! :D


I know you do Eutrusca. Months ago in a thread you told me where you lived and I was like Me Too!! Even said what section I lived near.

Guess you missed it.. You old fart lol :p

You babies need to quit whining. Gas prices in Germany average about € 4.66 a gallon (1.23 a liter). If you don't want to pay your low prices on gas then don't drive.
I'm sorry for repeating what I and others have already said, but it seems that you fail to get the point.
In America, driving is how you get to work. If you don't drive, you quickly find yourself unable to get to any decently paying job. There is an exception, but people who live in cities typically either earn more than 65,000$ a year, or deal with conditions that are barely adequate for adults, and would likely result in having one's children taken by the state. Imagine living in France, and working in Berlin, and not making enough to afford the bullet train.
As to our gas subsidies, they are considerably cheaper for our government than invseting in a public transit system that might actually work, since any such system would need to answer three critical issues:
Availability. The public transit system must be accessible from within a block or two of the houses of everyone who it can be expected to serve. If it is to serve more than a tiny of fraction of the populace, it must then be accessible from all of America's spread out suburbs, and more compact tenements, high rise appartments, and college dormitories.
Usefulness. The system must be useful enough to justify it's cost. Given the cost of connecting the vast amount of land described above, the utility level will need to be very close to that of a car. In other words, the system must be useful first for commuters, regardless of shift, and regardless of direction of commute. This means adding industrial and dense commercial areas to the layout. It should also supplant the car for doing errands, such as shopping. this means malls, town centers, and supermarkets must be on the network, and some concessions to cargo needs must be made.
Quality. The system will be useless if it is unsafe, either because of a total lack of sanitation results in too many exchanged diseases, or because a lack of effective monitering results in too much crime. Price falls under this heading too. The cost to use the system must be lower than the current cost of driving, at least to begin with, otherwise the changeover would devastate both workers and employers, with the need for sudden increase in wages to cover the additional costs of travel.
The practical upshot of this is a multi-trillion dollar public transit network, which would have to run a massive deficit for several years. The American public is far from thrilled by the current level of deficit spending, increasing it tenfold would not improve their moods. The fact of the matter is that public transit was practical in Europe because of the average nation size and population density. It is not practical here, for the same reasons. If you think we're so lucky to have low gas prices, come on over, try it out yourself. Otherwise, stop telling us how lucky we have it, and help.

I'm sorry for repeating what I and others have already said, but it seems that you fail to get the point.
In America, driving is how you get to work. If you don't drive, you quickly find yourself unable to get to any decently paying job. There is an exception, but people who live in cities typically either earn more than 65,000$ a year, or deal with conditions that are barely adequate for adults, and would likely result in having one's children taken by the state. Imagine living in France, and working in Berlin, and not making enough to afford the bullet train.
As to our gas subsidies, they are considerably cheaper for our government than invseting in a public transit system that might actually work, since any such system would need to answer three critical issues:
Availability. The public transit system must be accessible from within a block or two of the houses of everyone who it can be expected to serve. If it is to serve more than a tiny of fraction of the populace, it must then be accessible from all of America's spread out suburbs, and more compact tenements, high rise appartments, and college dormitories.
Usefulness. The system must be useful enough to justify it's cost. Given the cost of connecting the vast amount of land described above, the utility level will need to be very close to that of a car. In other words, the system must be useful first for commuters, regardless of shift, and regardless of direction of commute. This means adding industrial and dense commercial areas to the layout. It should also supplant the car for doing errands, such as shopping. this means malls, town centers, and supermarkets must be on the network, and some concessions to cargo needs must be made.
Quality. The system will be useless if it is unsafe, either because of a total lack of sanitation results in too many exchanged diseases, or because a lack of effective monitering results in too much crime. Price falls under this heading too. The cost to use the system must be lower than the current cost of driving, at least to begin with, otherwise the changeover would devastate both workers and employers, with the need for sudden increase in wages to cover the additional costs of travel.
The practical upshot of this is a multi-trillion dollar public transit network, which would have to run a massive deficit for several years. The American public is far from thrilled by the current level of deficit spending, increasing it tenfold would not improve their moods. The fact of the matter is that public transit was practical in Europe because of the average nation size and population density. It is not practical here, for the same reasons. If you think we're so lucky to have low gas prices, come on over, try it out yourself. Otherwise, stop telling us how lucky we have it, and help.


If that's how you live then at some point you and your people must have chosen to live that way. If Petrol is highly priced for you...then that's your problem, how about having cars that are actually effcient and encourage people not to have SUVs. Or maybe make is so that Ford and GM actually have to develop decent engines rather than still using those push rod engines for the 60's.

You can bitch and moan about you rsituation but the reason you have loits of cars is because you all chose to live in suburbs. It's hard to implement mass transit in this situation.

You choose how you live...and lets look at the future situation. Oil prices will continue to go up and up, it will become more expensive to travel by car...i believe to the point where the car becomes unviable for most people. Now the hydrogen car is years away in relaity. So wnat are you and your government going to do? Change or just demand cheaper gas. Why do i get the feeling it's the latter. :rolleyes:

This sucks. In the 60's one could buy gas at 29 cents a gallon for premium, now if your really lucky you can can gas for $2.29 for premium. I dont know what to say about Alaska, but Im leaning towards drilling, the local community up their is poor and this would create jobs, as for wildlife, well I just dont know if its right. But what does everyone think is the best answer to our gas problem?
Actually $2.29 is what the cheap stuff has been going for where I live for quite a while now.