NationStates Jolt Archive


Morality: Is it really moral?

Yes penguins
23-06-2005, 20:24
what happens when someones morals are not seen as moral to someone else. An exapmle would be the gay marriage issue. Person A, being religious or raised this way, or whatever, sees homosexuality to be immoral. Person B may or my not be homosexual themselves, but they do not find homosexuality to be immoral.

Its very unlikely that anyone will change either of their beliefs, so why do people get into such heated discussions about these things?
The Noble Men
23-06-2005, 20:26
Its very unlikely that anyone will change either of their beliefs, so why do people get into such heated discussions about these things?

I do it because arguing is fun most of the time.
Melkor Unchained
23-06-2005, 20:27
what happens when someones morals are not seen as moral to someone else. An exapmle would be the gay marriage issue. Person A, being religious or raised this way, or whatever, sees homosexuality to be immoral. Person B may or my not be homosexual themselves, but they do not find homosexuality to be immoral.

Its very unlikely that anyone will change either of their beliefs, so why do people get into such heated discussions about these things?
We do it because we all think we're right and everyone else is wrong. God knows I'm no exception. Perhaps we're all holding out on some crazy idea that we'll actually get the other person to change their minds and 'see the light' as it were.

It really doesn't make sense, but not much does anymore.
Hakartopia
23-06-2005, 20:27
Because there is a difference between doing something, not doing something, and keeping other from doing something.
Person A may dislike homosexuals all he wants, but he'd need a compelling reason to influence person B.
Jalfura
23-06-2005, 20:35
Because there is a difference between doing something, not doing something, and keeping other from doing something.
Person A may dislike homosexuals all he wants, but he'd need a compelling reason to influence person B.

Amen. Live and let live is the philosophy I've always preached.

To answer the original question, people argue about it for the same reason they vote: it's not enough to live by your own standards of morality, you need to force your ideas of morality on everyone else as well. I don't even really disagree with the idea of doing so: it's a natural reaction, and some viewpoints just happen to be less tolerant than others, and those are the viewpoints I tend to be against.
Yes penguins
23-06-2005, 20:39
perhaps the deeper question of moraility comes when A feels insulted that B would even DARE to think that homosexuals could be considered equal, and proceeds to insult, and perhaps if it were IRL, to beat etc. B. (which im sure has happened at many gay pride parades/protests)

or perhaps to be fair, person B insulting/beating A?
Hakartopia
23-06-2005, 20:43
perhaps the deeper question of moraility comes when A feels insulted that B would even DARE to think that homosexuals could be considered equal, and proceeds to insult, and perhaps if it were IRL, to beat etc. B. (which im sure has happened at many gay pride parades/protests)

or perhaps to be fair, person B insulting/beating A?

Again, A should have a compelling reason for that. As should B off course.
Sociopathic Whores
23-06-2005, 20:44
Oh sure, we talk about homosexuality on nation states but we can't talk about UN proposals running down stupid people!!!!!!!!!!!! I was ejected from the UN, and i don't see why. It had nothing to do from the outside world! unlike this homosexuality tidbit that's poping up.
Worldworkers
23-06-2005, 20:46
i find my self only to agree weht waht he is saying. so to he how brot these nobel thread to beer kodos :fluffle:
Yes penguins
23-06-2005, 20:57
i find my self only to agree weht waht he is saying. so to he how brot these nobel thread to beer kodos :fluffle:

gah.. errr... translation? or can i not read anymore?
Ashmoria
23-06-2005, 21:11
sometimes a person who is very invested in being "moral" can be shown that within their own system of morality, its either not immoral to be gay or at least that not allowing gays the same freedoms as everyone else is immoral. such a person would then drop their objections to civil rights for gays.

most people who think of themselves as moral find things to be very different when the hated "other" becomes one of "us"

so when they have a gay son, they stop thinking gay people are vile. when their daughter brings home their half black grandchild, suddenly "race mixing" isnt so bad. for most people, when you cant demonize a group, you cant hate them anymore and your view of morality changes.
Cabra West
23-06-2005, 21:15
Values and morals change with society, society changes with philosophical and scientific progress. Moral has to be continually adapted to changing circumstances.

Society has realised that all people are equal (and it was a long struggle that's not yet over), which was a radical change of ideas. Before that, people were valued according to birth - were you black or white, male or female, born free or a slave, born into aristocracy or a farmer's family - and treated people accordingly. "Equality" started as a purely philosophical concept which was thought to be impossible in practice. But society evloved, agreeing more and more on "equality" as a humanitarian value, a political concept, slowly turning it into a moral value. And we are still in the process...
Now, gay marriage is nothing else but a practical effect of the concept of equality. However, this practical aspect clashes with some other, more traditional views of moral.
Consens can only be reached through conflict and discussion. A solution will be found and people will get used to it, it will become the norm after some years or decades and whatever the solution is, the majority of society will cease to view it as immoral.