Greenlander
23-06-2005, 15:35
Taken from another thread...
Can Humans Exist?
Now, for the sake of this discussion we don’t need to bother ourselves with what caused the first spark of life on earth, we only need to acknowledge that it did happen.
We decide to take three classes and combine them altogether for one grand scheme of ‘what we believe’ and how we got here, then surely we will be well rounded in our outlook.
First class, Evolution and Biology. Here we find that the first spark of life happened about 3.5 billion years ago on Earth, that seems to be about 1.5 billion years older than that… Okay, fine and dandy. We take our notes.
Next, we walk on over to our Astronomy and Astro-Physics class, to learn about our Universe. Here we find that the very best measurements of the Universe from it’s measurable expansion and growth rates, and movements and the speed of light etc., etc., etc. shows practically conclusively that the Universe must be between 10-15 billion years of age. Okay, that’s nice, we take our notes and notice that we have between 5 to 10 billion years to make the Earth and start life on it for us to be here! Excellent.
In our next class, Geology and Elements, we find out that nothing on Earth creates Iron, the base metal, the end product of all matter is essentially Iron/Lead. We find that it is ONLY created by the fusion in Stars/Suns? Well how is that possible we say, the planet’s very core is Iron and there’s hundred of thousand of tons of it all over the place?”
“Of course,” they say, “a Star a long time ago must have gone supernova and dispersed this Iron into the cosmos where it sped through the expanding universe for eons before cooling and slowing enough so that it could get stuck in a giant gas cloud and re-condense over time, reforming into a new solar system, taking billions of years to do so, of course.” Well, we might have time, we think, as we add this to our notes… “Okay,” we think a little more hesitantly, perhaps even apprehensively…
But they don’t stop there! No, they then tell us that they think the earth must be THIRD generation at least for it to have as many raw physical heavy elements as it has!?!? "What," we exclaim?!?!
So we run back to the Astronomy guys as fast as we can and ask how fast a Sun burns before it goes supernova? They say, “10 Billion years.” WHAT?!?! “But you said the universe is only 10-15 billion years old,” we say, pointing at our notes, “And we are supposed to be living on a third generation planet,” we say, pointing at more notes!!!
“Is there any other way to burns stars faster we say?” Sure, they say, “They then tell us that it depends on the size of the star, they can burn faster by being bigger, depending on how big the Star is its faster and faster because it uses up fuel faster and faster it last less time. The bigger it is, the faster it burns and uses up it’s fuel faster and goes supernova sooner, thus our problem is solved, we think, relieved.
But no, they won’t stop either. “The bigger it is,” they say, “the faster it burns, but if it’s too big it shears off it's own excess mass, but the maximum size star burns in less than say a quarter hundred million year compared to the normal amount of time we don’t think it will go supernova at all, we think it turns into a black hole then.” (or Neutron Star or White Dwarf) And thus, we notice as we take our notes, it would not disperse the needed elements to form the planet we need and in fact already have. Our problem is back because only supernova star can disperse the needed heavy elements to expalins what we have on Earth.
So, we look at our notes again. To create us, Human life on the Planet Earth, Life needs 3.5 billion years on a 5 billion year old planet, in a planet consisting with enough heavy element’s to suggest that Earth needs to be third generation product of supernova created elements, taking twenty five billion years without a moment to spare, in a Universe that is only 15 billions years old (and probably younger!).
It seems, we can’t exist at all!?! :D
-----
Notes:
I may have, for the sake of brevity summed things up a bit, and jumped from quick conclusions to quick conclusion so that the discussion could progress and keep as many people involved as possible, but since we don’t have the time or space to write everything about how we know what we know, I think that’s more than excusable.
For example, I summed up the time of supernova, condense and supernova again, into a flat 10 billion years, that isn’t so much as a fib as it is a summary of the total elapsed time and ignoring details of how that is thought to be achieved. But my results are sound, as far as nothing otherwise has been proved…
Some links for anyone that might care to look up the various aspects of what I said above:
-The most up to date Universe age measurements is about 13.7 billion years old.
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101age.html
-The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%). This value is derived from several different lines of evidence.
- Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake (4.03 Ga) and the Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland (3.7 to 3.8 Ga), but well-studied rocks nearly as old are also found in the Minnesota River Valley and northern Michigan (3.5-3.7 billion years), in Swaziland (3.4-3.5 billion years), and in Western Australia (3.4-3.6 billion years). [See Editor's Note.] These ancient rocks have been dated by a number of radiometric dating methods and the consistency of the results give scientists confidence that the ages are correct to within a few percent. An interesting feature of these ancient rocks is that they are not from any sort of "primordial crust" but are lava flows and sediments deposited in shallow water, an indication that Earth history began well before these rocks were deposited. In Western Australia, single zircon crystals found in younger sedimentary rocks have radiometric ages of as much as 4.3 billion years, making these tiny crystals the oldest materials to be found on Earth so far. The source rocks for these zircon crystals have not yet been found. The ages measured for Earth's oldest rocks and oldest crystals show that the Earth is at least 4.3 billion years in age but do not reveal the exact age of Earth's formation.
The best age for the Earth (4.54 Ga) is based on old, presumed single-stage leads coupled with the Pb ratios in troilite from iron meteorites, specifically the Canyon Diablo meteorite. In addition, mineral grains (zircon) with U-Pb ages of 4.4 Ga have recently been reported from sedimentary rocks in west-central Australia.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html
And that matches well with…
-Our Sun belongs to the generation of stars created 4.6 billion years ago, when our galaxy was roughly half its present age.
http://origins.stsci.edu/under/systems.shtml
-Iron:
Iron is a relatively abundant element in the universe. It is found in the sun and many types of stars in considerable quantity. Iron nuclei are very stable. Iron is a vital constituent of plant and animal life, and is the key component of haemoglobin.
http://www.webelements.com/webeleme...ext/Fe/key.html
-Lead is a chemical element in the periodic table that has the symbol Pb and atomic number 82. A soft, heavy, toxic and malleable true metal, lead has a dull gray appearance and is bluish white when freshly cut but tarnishes to dull gray when exposed to air. *snip* Lead is the heaviest stable element.
http://www.portaljuice.com/lead.html
-In astronomy, a metal is any element other than hydrogen or helium. This distinction is significant because hydrogen and helium (together with trace amounts of lithium) are the only elements that occur naturally without the fusion activity of stars. Thus, the metallicity of a galaxy or other object is an indication of past stellar activity.
http://www.portaljuice.com/metal.html
Can Humans Exist?
Now, for the sake of this discussion we don’t need to bother ourselves with what caused the first spark of life on earth, we only need to acknowledge that it did happen.
We decide to take three classes and combine them altogether for one grand scheme of ‘what we believe’ and how we got here, then surely we will be well rounded in our outlook.
First class, Evolution and Biology. Here we find that the first spark of life happened about 3.5 billion years ago on Earth, that seems to be about 1.5 billion years older than that… Okay, fine and dandy. We take our notes.
Next, we walk on over to our Astronomy and Astro-Physics class, to learn about our Universe. Here we find that the very best measurements of the Universe from it’s measurable expansion and growth rates, and movements and the speed of light etc., etc., etc. shows practically conclusively that the Universe must be between 10-15 billion years of age. Okay, that’s nice, we take our notes and notice that we have between 5 to 10 billion years to make the Earth and start life on it for us to be here! Excellent.
In our next class, Geology and Elements, we find out that nothing on Earth creates Iron, the base metal, the end product of all matter is essentially Iron/Lead. We find that it is ONLY created by the fusion in Stars/Suns? Well how is that possible we say, the planet’s very core is Iron and there’s hundred of thousand of tons of it all over the place?”
“Of course,” they say, “a Star a long time ago must have gone supernova and dispersed this Iron into the cosmos where it sped through the expanding universe for eons before cooling and slowing enough so that it could get stuck in a giant gas cloud and re-condense over time, reforming into a new solar system, taking billions of years to do so, of course.” Well, we might have time, we think, as we add this to our notes… “Okay,” we think a little more hesitantly, perhaps even apprehensively…
But they don’t stop there! No, they then tell us that they think the earth must be THIRD generation at least for it to have as many raw physical heavy elements as it has!?!? "What," we exclaim?!?!
So we run back to the Astronomy guys as fast as we can and ask how fast a Sun burns before it goes supernova? They say, “10 Billion years.” WHAT?!?! “But you said the universe is only 10-15 billion years old,” we say, pointing at our notes, “And we are supposed to be living on a third generation planet,” we say, pointing at more notes!!!
“Is there any other way to burns stars faster we say?” Sure, they say, “They then tell us that it depends on the size of the star, they can burn faster by being bigger, depending on how big the Star is its faster and faster because it uses up fuel faster and faster it last less time. The bigger it is, the faster it burns and uses up it’s fuel faster and goes supernova sooner, thus our problem is solved, we think, relieved.
But no, they won’t stop either. “The bigger it is,” they say, “the faster it burns, but if it’s too big it shears off it's own excess mass, but the maximum size star burns in less than say a quarter hundred million year compared to the normal amount of time we don’t think it will go supernova at all, we think it turns into a black hole then.” (or Neutron Star or White Dwarf) And thus, we notice as we take our notes, it would not disperse the needed elements to form the planet we need and in fact already have. Our problem is back because only supernova star can disperse the needed heavy elements to expalins what we have on Earth.
So, we look at our notes again. To create us, Human life on the Planet Earth, Life needs 3.5 billion years on a 5 billion year old planet, in a planet consisting with enough heavy element’s to suggest that Earth needs to be third generation product of supernova created elements, taking twenty five billion years without a moment to spare, in a Universe that is only 15 billions years old (and probably younger!).
It seems, we can’t exist at all!?! :D
-----
Notes:
I may have, for the sake of brevity summed things up a bit, and jumped from quick conclusions to quick conclusion so that the discussion could progress and keep as many people involved as possible, but since we don’t have the time or space to write everything about how we know what we know, I think that’s more than excusable.
For example, I summed up the time of supernova, condense and supernova again, into a flat 10 billion years, that isn’t so much as a fib as it is a summary of the total elapsed time and ignoring details of how that is thought to be achieved. But my results are sound, as far as nothing otherwise has been proved…
Some links for anyone that might care to look up the various aspects of what I said above:
-The most up to date Universe age measurements is about 13.7 billion years old.
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101age.html
-The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%). This value is derived from several different lines of evidence.
- Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake (4.03 Ga) and the Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland (3.7 to 3.8 Ga), but well-studied rocks nearly as old are also found in the Minnesota River Valley and northern Michigan (3.5-3.7 billion years), in Swaziland (3.4-3.5 billion years), and in Western Australia (3.4-3.6 billion years). [See Editor's Note.] These ancient rocks have been dated by a number of radiometric dating methods and the consistency of the results give scientists confidence that the ages are correct to within a few percent. An interesting feature of these ancient rocks is that they are not from any sort of "primordial crust" but are lava flows and sediments deposited in shallow water, an indication that Earth history began well before these rocks were deposited. In Western Australia, single zircon crystals found in younger sedimentary rocks have radiometric ages of as much as 4.3 billion years, making these tiny crystals the oldest materials to be found on Earth so far. The source rocks for these zircon crystals have not yet been found. The ages measured for Earth's oldest rocks and oldest crystals show that the Earth is at least 4.3 billion years in age but do not reveal the exact age of Earth's formation.
The best age for the Earth (4.54 Ga) is based on old, presumed single-stage leads coupled with the Pb ratios in troilite from iron meteorites, specifically the Canyon Diablo meteorite. In addition, mineral grains (zircon) with U-Pb ages of 4.4 Ga have recently been reported from sedimentary rocks in west-central Australia.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html
And that matches well with…
-Our Sun belongs to the generation of stars created 4.6 billion years ago, when our galaxy was roughly half its present age.
http://origins.stsci.edu/under/systems.shtml
-Iron:
Iron is a relatively abundant element in the universe. It is found in the sun and many types of stars in considerable quantity. Iron nuclei are very stable. Iron is a vital constituent of plant and animal life, and is the key component of haemoglobin.
http://www.webelements.com/webeleme...ext/Fe/key.html
-Lead is a chemical element in the periodic table that has the symbol Pb and atomic number 82. A soft, heavy, toxic and malleable true metal, lead has a dull gray appearance and is bluish white when freshly cut but tarnishes to dull gray when exposed to air. *snip* Lead is the heaviest stable element.
http://www.portaljuice.com/lead.html
-In astronomy, a metal is any element other than hydrogen or helium. This distinction is significant because hydrogen and helium (together with trace amounts of lithium) are the only elements that occur naturally without the fusion activity of stars. Thus, the metallicity of a galaxy or other object is an indication of past stellar activity.
http://www.portaljuice.com/metal.html