NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is this? Why is it that kids are treated like evil minded, third class citizens? I was at school today do a rehersal for our promotion (8th to 9th grade big whoop) and I was listening to my music from my iRiver.

Ok, kinda rude I admit it but I could still hear what was goin on. So then Mr. Garinger (a math teacher) looks at me, says something to Mr. Walter and then comes over to me and asks for my headphones and iRiver.

Alright, whatever ya caught me. So I unplug my headphones hand those to him, and then take out my iRiver to turn it off and take out the battery (if you don't it burns power I dunno why).

So right when it's done turning off and I'm about to take the battery out (I told him what I'm doing and why too) he just snatches it out of my hand and puts it on his clipboard.

So I'm wondering "What the hell dude?" So I'm just curious as to why so few adults treat kids like equals and are polite to us and give us respect? I know there alot of adults on this forum so maybe my question will be answered. Mebbe you? Mebbe your friends? Please explain why we aren't treated equally and politley.

When kids grow up, they understand why kids get no respect..lol

<snipperised>

Because they can.

This is because they aren't equals. They've done nothing to earn their respect. Children haven't developed mentally enough, and don't show adults respect half of the time.

This is of course, coming from a kid.

This is because they aren't equals. They've done nothing to earn their respect. Children haven't developed mentally enough, and don't show adults respect half of the time.

This is of course, coming from a kid.
I'll respect an adult if they treat me politely or as an equal. If they don't I won't respect them.

I'll respect an adult if they treat me politely or as an equal. If they don't I won't respect them.

Although we have to respect them because they are in authority, in the same way we have to respect someone holding a gun to my head.

blah..blah. All that complaining woun't do anything. You won't even survive one second in boarding school with all that complaining.

Although we have to respect them because they are in authority, in the same way we have to respect someone holding a gun to my head.
No we just need to treat them politely.

Why is this? Why is it that kids are treated like evil minded, third class citizens? I was at school today do a rehersal for our promotion (8th to 9th grade big whoop) and I was listening to my music from my iRiver.

Ok, kinda rude I admit it but I could still hear what was goin on. So then Mr. Garinger (a math teacher) looks at me, says something to Mr. Walter and then comes over to me and asks for my headphones and iRiver.

Alright, whatever ya caught me. So I unplug my headphones hand those to him, and then take out my iRiver to turn it off and take out the battery (if you don't it burns power I dunno why).

So right when it's done turning off and I'm about to take the battery out (I told him what I'm doing and why too) he just snatches it out of my hand and puts it on his clipboard.

So I'm wondering "What the hell dude?" So I'm just curious as to why so few adults treat kids like equals and are polite to us and give us respect? I know there alot of adults on this forum so maybe my question will be answered. Mebbe you? Mebbe your friends? Please explain why we aren't treated equally and politley. yeah, I agree... if you were an adult and was caught listening to your iPod or iRiver during a job meeting, you would've been fired. so if you want equal treatment, you would've been expelled or at least held back a grade.

but no, you got the kiddy glove treatment, you got your stuff confiscated and you still advanced to the next grade. don't ask to be treated like adults, the learning years prepares you for the trials as an Adult. In school, Failure only means a second chance, in a JOB, it could mean your paycheck.

Turkishsquirrel: That's a horrible example. ;)

I'll respect an adult if they treat me politely or as an equal. If they don't I won't respect them.
Then you are not going to get far.

Respect is a double edged sword. It's not "respect me THEN I'll respect you." It's "Respect me AND I'll Respect you"

You listening to your music while someone else is talking or when you're suppose to be paying "COMPLETE" attention to someone else is not showing respect. so you got their response, you didn't give respect, you don't get respect.

try that attitude with the Cops, and you'll find yourself with a change of address... as an adult that is.

This is because they aren't equals. They've done nothing to earn their respect. Children haven't developed mentally enough, and don't show adults respect half of the time.

This is of course, coming from a kid.
Which is no reason to steal, and I mean steal, their 60+ dollar tech items. Great, you arn't suppsoed to use them in school, no reason to take them away and not give them bac, a couple years ago at my highschool they were gonna let people com pick up their electronics finally or some shit, they have like 5 garbage bags of stuff

Then you are not going to get far.

Respect is a double edged sword. It's not "respect me THEN I'll respect you." It's "Respect me AND I'll Respect you"

You listening to your music while someone else is talking or when you're suppose to be paying "COMPLETE" attention to someone else is not showing respect. so you got their response, you didn't give respect, you don't get respect.

try that attitude with the Cops, and you'll find yourself with a change of address... as an adult that is.

Finally a post I can agree with. ;)

Ihatevacations']Which is no reason to steal, and I mean steal, their 60+ dollar tech items. Great, you arn't suppsoed to use them in school, no reason to take them away and not give them bac, a couple years ago at my highschool they were gonna let people com pick up their electronics finally or some shit, they have like 5 garbage bags of stuff
Should have thought of that BEFORE using them in inappropriate areas

Ihatevacations']Which is no reason to steal, and I mean steal, their 60+ dollar tech items. Great, you arn't suppsoed to use them in school, no reason to take them away and not give them bac, a couple years ago at my highschool they were gonna let people com pick up their electronics finally or some shit, they have like 5 garbage bags of stuff

That's called grand larceny. By law school officals cannot hold items disruptive to learning process past a certain period. I think the "certain period" is until the end of the school day, but I'm not sure.

Bottom line is that there is going to be a new wave of student right's lawyers and student right's politicians in the near future. ;)

Yeah, kids can be little shits. But guess what...we were all kids at one point. And guess who is the adult now? So act it. A lot of adults treat kids the way THEY were treated as kids. It isn't rational, but it fills some deep seated need to put others in 'their place'. Point being, as an adult, if you are going to behave towards a child in a manner that you wouldn't get away with towards an adult...rethink it. No wonder kids are all full of angst and ennui...adults give them plenty of ammunition.

That being said, once again, kids can be little shits. Some effort on your part to be polite will likely be appreciated by any but the most thick-headed of adults. Like opening doors, giving up a seat for the elderly, general common-sense polite things (that many adults forget to do themselves...). Take the high road. Why? Because disabusing people of their stereotypes is immensely satisfying.

Bottom line is that there is going to be a new wave of student right's lawyers and student right's politicians in the near future. ;)
I keep hoping...and it never, ever happens. :(

Ihatevacations']Which is no reason to steal, and I mean steal, their 60+ dollar tech items. Great, you arn't suppsoed to use them in school, no reason to take them away and not give them bac, a couple years ago at my highschool they were gonna let people com pick up their electronics finally or some shit, they have like 5 garbage bags of stuffSeveral points wrong with this observation.

1) Turkishsquirrel shouldn't have been listening to his iRiver in school. not during class (or promotion practice) so Turkishsquirrel was wrong right off the bat. by removing it from the student, that student won't use it in other classes.

2) he didn't say steal. Teachers Confiscate contraband materials and, depending on the material, it gets returned. He should've talked to the Teacher after school and he would've gotten his iRiver back.

3) your school returned the electronics. the fact that is was 5 garbage bags worth means that the school saw a real problem and is cracking down on it.

seriously... is it that important to listen to your walkman during class? or make that Phone Call during Social Studies?
If your parents need to get ahold of you, they should do the proper thing. Call the School office and they will then get the message to you. calling the student direct is disturbing to all the students, not just the recipiant.

Should have thought of that BEFORE using them in inappropriate areas
Entirely irrelevant, I doubt it is legal for school officials to PERMANENTLY confiscate your items

And your pontis about my statement would be perfectly relevant, if I was talkngi solely about his situation. I was not, I was speaking in general, using it in class is stupid, but using them during free time is also against some stupid rule. Why? What is the pproblem with listening to your mp3 player during a break?

And, they only did that ONE year, ONE. I was there for four, they never did it other than that once. I guess they ran out of places to hide all the electronics they stole.

Ihatevacations']Entirely irrelevant, I doubt it is legal for school officials to PERMANENTLY confiscate your items
I doubt there is a time limit to when they HAVE to return them

I'll respect an adult if they treat me politely or as an equal. If they don't I won't respect them.

But you're not an equal. However I agree an adult should be polite to you, unless you've given them reason otherwise.

THis is just a terrible example of kids not being respected. In this case he deserved not to be respected. Personally I would agree with the teacher, cuase I wouldn't want to waste my time waiting for a kid to take out the battery when there are important thing to be done.

But generally, even the best kids are not respected. I do not know why some of the most mature kids are not treated like adults. They can handle it! But of course some kids can't, but generally these days they can.

Toodles!

I did get it back from a nicer teacher. It's the way he took it that pissed me off. He took it away like I was just shit and that I didn't deserve to own it anyways no matter how I used it. It's the attitude with which I was treated that ticked me off. I know why it was taken away, but I don't see why he had to be a jerk about it.

I doubt there is a time limit to when they HAVE to return them
Actually that is dependant on the school. some say at the end of the day, others at the end of the school year. I've also heard of places that returns the items to the parents and not the student. Which makes it a double whammy if the student bought it without the parents knowledge or if it's not high tech but very inappropriate material.

but they do get returned... unless the student forgets to pick it up.

I did get it back from a nicer teacher. It's the way he took it that pissed me off. He took it away like I was just shit and that I didn't deserve to own it anyways no matter how I used it. It's the attitude with which I was treated that ticked me off. I know why it was taken away, but I don't see why he had to be a jerk about it.
You were causing a disruption in his trying to prepare you for your “graduation”
Incredibly rude … I would be a little upset at you too

I doubt there is a time limit to when they HAVE to return them
Schools are NOT institutions of justice and have no legal ability to permanently remove your items from you, especially if they cannot be considered dangerous weapons. I'm pretty sure permanently taking some electronic item which cost upwards of 100$ is illegal

I'll respect an adult if they treat me politely or as an equal. If they don't I won't respect them.Without putting too fine a point on it, their attitude might be that you have to be polite to them, first, before they will be polite to you. I'm guessing that, from their point-of-view, listening to your iRiver when you were supposed to be paying full and complete attention would have made you the initial transgressor and therefore unworthy of respect.

In American society, "all men are created equal"*. However, when you enter into various contractual obligations, you are almost always under the authority of someone else (and sometimes others are under your authority). In any context where authority is present, inferiors are expected (and usually required) to be respectful to superiors, first. This applies to student-teacher relationships, employee-boss relationships, the military chain-of-command, citizen-police interactions, and so on.

* ...remembering that the word "men" used in a general context, here, actually refers to both genders.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

snip

I have a question for you. Do you have a job and support yourself in every way? Do you pay rent or own a home? Do you own your own car? Buy your own food with your own money? etc..etc..etc?

If not, you're not an equal to an adult.

You were causing a disruption in his trying to prepare you for your “graduation”
Incredibly rude … I would be a little upset at you too
I wasn't bothering anyone near me.

Actually that is dependant on the school. some say at the end of the day, others at the end of the school year. I've also heard of places that returns the items to the parents and not the student. Which makes it a double whammy if the student bought it without the parents knowledge or if it's not high tech but very inappropriate material.

but they do get returned... unless the student forgets to pick it up.
That’s a policy decision rather then a legal one (which is what he was questioning I believe)
But yeah I understand at what you are getting at … and I would personally choose the return to parents (was looking through some code of conduct pages … seems a few of them say the same thing)
It may not deter some but others it may

I have a question for you. Do you have a job and support yourself in every way? Do you pay rent or own a home? Do you own your own car? Buy your own food with your own money? etc..etc..etc?

If not, you're not an equal to an adult.
I don't because I can't legally drive till 16, or work until 15 or so.

"Kids Don't Get Any Respect"

Respect must be earned ... repeatedly. What have you done to earn it?

I don't because I can't legally drive till 16, or work until 15 or so.

So, therefore by simple default, you're not equal to an adult yet.

I wasn't bothering anyone near me.
But you were interfering potentially with YOUR absorption of the data … which he is STILL responsible for. Who do you think will be among the first blamed if you manage to screw something up at this graduation … or elsewhere

He is in charge of not only making sure the rest of the class learns but you as well

But you were interfering potentially with YOUR absorption of the data … which he is STILL responsible for. Who do you think will be among the first blamed if you manage to screw something up at this graduation … or elsewhere

He is in charge of not only making sure the rest of the class learns but you as well
I already knew what we were doing, how it was going to be done, etc. This was the third practice. Some people learn faster than others, there's no reason to shove them down.

I already knew what we were doing, how it was going to be done, etc. This was the third practice. Some people learn faster than others, there's no reason to shove them down.
He is still responsible for learning … he does NOT KNOW that you know. He is in a class trying to inform you all and he see someone with headphones on not paying as much attention as they could
By letting you keep the headphones and use them he has to take the risk that you might miss something or take them away so he can reduce that risk that you miss something
In my eyes he did the right thing in reducing the distractions to your potential learning

MY GOD! What is going on with the world?!? I went to a strict boarding school, and if we had ever been found listening to Ipods or whatever we would have felt the wrong end of a 20 mile run! Why on earth do you find it nessesary to listen to music when a teacher, someone who has given up their lives working for a pittence to help the young, is trying to talk to you? As for the teacher/school holding on to the item in question, there are many schools that have small print on some document or other that says they may hold something till the end of term, and if the student wants it returned they usually have to apologise to the teacher concerned and a note from their parents.

As for the respect thing, you have to earn respect. Think of it like the army, a private has rather less respect than a general.

Tough balls, kid. It's a cruel world out there. No one cares about your little problems and snivelling isn't going to help matters, as no one in the real world, except those who care about you, really give a shit about you.

Money really does talk.

And respect? Kid, you aren't getting any until you start dishing it out. It's a bloody two way street, and you've blockaded it with your pig-headed self-righteous babble about how adults don't respect you.

In my school, if you were disrespectful, you were likely suspended. And the worse you could do is sleep in class - and that rarely happened unless teh teacher was lenient.

I had my cellphone (actually, the bag was because the prof didn't open the bag) confiscated in college, because it was a lab period and I accidently left my bag unattended in order to go to the pisser. I got it back because I spoke to my prof. But you see, no matter what level, teachers do wield a certain authority over you, and if you don't show respect then yuo get none.

I got my bag back because I asked the prof and then turned off my cellphone.

I've seen students my age kicked out for talking on the phone during class. The profs don't kick out people for listening to personal music players but it is frowned upon.

But you know what, get the hell over it. You're a little snotty kid, and many adults see you that way until you start showiong them respect.

Tough balls, kid. It's a cruel world out there. No one cares about your little problems and snivelling isn't going to help matters, as no one in the real world, except those who care about you, really give a shit about you.

Money really does talk.

And respect? Kid, you aren't getting any until you start dishing it out. It's a bloody two way street, and you've blockaded it with your pig-headed self-righteous babble about how adults don't respect you.

In my school, if you were disrespectful, you were likely suspended. And the worse you could do is sleep in class - and that rarely happened unless teh teacher was lenient.

I had my cellphone (actually, the bag was because the prof didn't open the bag) confiscated in college, because it was a lab period and I accidently left my bag unattended in order to go to the pisser. I got it back because I spoke to my prof. But you see, no matter what level, teachers do wield a certain authority over you, and if you don't show respect then yuo get none.

I got my bag back because I asked the prof and then turned off my cellphone.

I've seen students my age kicked out for talking on the phone during class. The profs don't kick out people for listening to personal music players but it is frowned upon.

But you know what, get the hell over it. You're a little snotty kid, and many adults see you that way until you start showiong them respect.


Yeah in the college situation (at least here) depending on the teacher he has every right to kick you out of his class for disturbing it (never have had one that does but they do ask you turn off cells) with headphones same deal
But unlike k-12 schools you are PAYING to take a college course … you don’t past you wasted your own dough
It really is a motivator to do the best you can :)

Funny how so many people confuse respect with trust.
Respect is given, not earned. Respect is lost when you stop showing it to others.

When you sit in your school listening to music or talking on a cellphone or whatever, you loose the respect of your teacher - and hopefully your fellow students - because you're supposed to pay attention and not act disruptive. What you did was both. If he had let you get away with it, he would've had to let the rest of his pupils get away with it as well.

It's his responsibility not to let that happen. Like it or not, he's payed to do what he did. If you think the man is an idiot, confront him with it. But keep in mind you have a responsibility to pay attention, be an example to your classmates, or leave school.

Your example was a piss poor one. But you probably have a point. Regardless, remember most of the disrespect youngsters think they face is simply a response to their own lack of respect.

And if you ever come across a policeman or other authority figure when you're an adult, remember s/he's just a person like you with a different job and some fancy clothes. If an authority doesn't respect you, you should not respect it. There's nothing preventing you from making a citizens arrest of an abusive authority figure. Just make damn sure you have witnesses

The thing that gets me is, Adults often talk about how reasonable and superior their mental capacities are, and therefore we should all respect them.
So, should we respect mentally disabled people? Or should we all be able to kick them every now and then, make fun of them and all that?
No, we shouldnt :P
Not a great example, but I have a better one :p
When I lived in Oregon there was this law regarding income tax. It was something like "If the total taxes collected is over %2 what we expected, everything else goes back to the people.", and guess what? The state is in the middle of a money crisis!
So, they came up with this wonderfully intelligent idea.
Raise the minimum wage!
Obviously, if people have more money, they will spend more, and we can get more taxes!
But we cant repeal that %2 law, because everybody would get mad.
Now, I went around my school and asked a few kids (semi-at-random, I picked people I at least sort-of knew so I didnt get a 'WTF' look.) what raising the minimum wage does...
Why...it creates inflation! Some of them didnt know what inflation was, but they knew about the concept. And this was a crappy backwater hic town in Oregon.
Thus the wonderful Jr. Highschool kids determine that the politicians are giving everybody the runaround by linking two totaly seperate subjects and screwing the state over even more. Yay.

End rant :P

The thing that gets me is, Adults often talk about how reasonable and superior their mental capacities are, and therefore we should all respect them.
So, should we respect mentally disabled people? Or should we all be able to kick them every now and then, make fun of them and all that?
No, we shouldnt :P
Not a great example, but I have a better one :p
When I lived in Oregon there was this law regarding income tax. It was something like "If the total taxes collected is over %2 what we expected, everything else goes back to the people.", and guess what? The state is in the middle of a money crisis!
So, they came up with this wonderfully intelligent idea.
Raise the minimum wage!
Obviously, if people have more money, they will spend more, and we can get more taxes!
But we cant repeal that %2 law, because everybody would get mad.
Now, I went around my school and asked a few kids (semi-at-random, I picked people I at least sort-of knew so I didnt get a 'WTF' look.) what raising the minimum wage does...
Why...it creates inflation! Some of them didnt know what inflation was, but they knew about the concept. And this was a crappy backwater hic town in Oregon.
Thus the wonderful Jr. Highschool kids determine that the politicians are giving everybody the runaround by linking two totaly seperate subjects and screwing the state over even more. Yay.

End rant :P


Who said they were making this policy out of idiocy … who is not to say they understand but there are different benefits
Or maybe no benefits other then placating people so they get re-elected

Why is this? Why is it that kids are treated like evil minded, third class citizens? I was at school today do a rehersal for our promotion (8th to 9th grade big whoop) and I was listening to my music from my iRiver.

Ok, kinda rude I admit it but I could still hear what was goin on. So then Mr. Garinger (a math teacher) looks at me, says something to Mr. Walter and then comes over to me and asks for my headphones and iRiver.

Alright, whatever ya caught me. So I unplug my headphones hand those to him, and then take out my iRiver to turn it off and take out the battery (if you don't it burns power I dunno why).

So right when it's done turning off and I'm about to take the battery out (I told him what I'm doing and why too) he just snatches it out of my hand and puts it on his clipboard.

So I'm wondering "What the hell dude?" So I'm just curious as to why so few adults treat kids like equals and are polite to us and give us respect? I know there alot of adults on this forum so maybe my question will be answered. Mebbe you? Mebbe your friends? Please explain why we aren't treated equally and politley.

I agree with the dude earlier that said this was a bad example...

But my school is screwed up as it is. Total control is what they want man, seriously. I got a referral for questioning what was taught, which happened in a history class and I didn't agree with what the teacher was saying. Christ, I thought this was America...Then I got referral for laughing at a friend's joke in Art, and it wasn't even a real laugh, more like a slight chuckle...The teacher told me to go the other room and I asked her why and she threatened to call security...Then a referral for wearing a sleeve of my hoody up higher on one arm than the other, and that was unintentional...I usually wear my hoody sleeves up to just below my elbows and one sleeves slipped down and I'm suddenly implying a gang symbol...

So in the words of Rodney Dangerfield, "I get no respect, no respect at all."

It's high school - you leave your bloody rights, except the right to basic humane treatment and the right to remain silent at the door. You don't like it? Tough shit.

And sometimes kids get respect for the wrong reasons...


I, for example, command respect by looking older than I am, being polite, and making eye contact... but all that would not be nearly so influential had I not been on television a few times. Adults tend to think, therefore, that I must be respected because some guys from a TV program took my picture. Please.

Tough balls, kid. It's a cruel world out there. No one cares about your little problems and snivelling isn't going to help matters, as no one in the real world, except those who care about you, really give a shit about you.

<snip>

And respect? Kid, you aren't getting any until you start dishing it out. It's a bloody two way street, and you've blockaded it with your pig-headed self-righteous babble about how adults don't respect you.

<snip>

But you know what, get the hell over it. You're a little snotty kid, and many adults see you that way until you start showiong them respect.It's high school - you leave your bloody rights, except the right to basic humane treatment and the right to remain silent at the door. You don't like it? Tough shit.We all have opinions on how Turkishsquirrel behaved in school. We may agree or disagree on whether or not he was respectful towards his teachers or whether or not he has to be respectful towards his teachers, first. While on NationStates, however, he has been polite and civil towards other players. The same cannot be said of you, Kryozerkia.

Kryozerkia: Official Warning - Flaming and flamebait.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

It's high school - you leave your bloody rights, except the right to basic humane treatment and the right to remain silent at the door.
No you do not. (Assuming that the person in question is a US citizen in a US public school)

All citizens have constitutional rights. The only acception to students is that their actions cannot be "disprutive to the learning process".

I think most teachers just like treating kids as inferiors. Kids do deserve what they get a lot of the time though.

I think most teachers just like treating kids as inferiors. Kids do deserve what they get a lot of the time though.

Too true... (the first part)

On the second, however... Here, in my school district, the CoC leaves quite a few loopholes that can be construed to give the teacher almost absolute power... Like this:


14. Violating any district or building policy, rule or regulation.


I have seen teachers and principals get away with suddenly (and this has happened to me many times) declaring the actions of one student in violation of a building policy, even though there are many other people doing the same thing (once even in front of the same teacher that I got a referral from), but their actions are not in violation, even though it's the same thing. Teachers/administrators are getting away with far too much favoritism in my view, and it needs to be stopped.

[/rant]