NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, overseas, the British Monarchy can dissolve Parliament! What does the Constitution let our government do in the event of an emergency?

Such as Congress being...taken hostage and unable to vote.
Or every Supreme Court Justice being shown an episode of Jackass and has a heart attack.

Obviously, if the President is killed then the VP takes over. If both die then the Secretary of Defense (?) takes over. If all three die then Congress chooses.


BTW, don't turn this topic into an Anti-Bush, Anti-Republican, Anti-Democrat thread. This is purely constitutional discussion and possibilities and scenarios. We already agree that Bush sucks.

Operation Garden Plot?

Operation Garden Plot?
Elaborate.

Martial law?

Executive Orders.

Gah, elaborate, people!

Operation National Bend-over

Elaborate.

http://www.blackvault.com/documents/other/gardenplot/gardenplot0.htm


Basically martial law with the military given the right to use deadly force in the event of civil disturbance.

Elaborate.
It's the code name for government plans in case of widespead civil unrest in America...
I doubt that anyone that knows what it contains is allowed to tell you...

Ahh, so basically, the government already has plans to kill their own citizens in an emergency?

Thanks, I feel better now.

It's the code name for government plans in case of widespead civil unrest in America...
I doubt that anyone that knows what it contains is allowed to tell you...
Well, we're not allowed, but we can tell you anyway...







Oops, did I say "we"? I meant, uh, they! Yeah, they're not allowed...Heh heh... *backs out of room*

Ahh, so basically, the government already has plans to kill their own citizens in an emergency?

Thanks, I feel better now.
Heck, they haven't done anything like it since Lincoln rounded up people to prevent the border states from joining the South...

UN intervention ? :D

Ahh, so basically, the government already has plans to kill their own citizens in an emergency?No, just you, because you're really annoying. :p

(That was a joke! Don't modbomb me! Please??)

What can America do in an emergency?

They can all sit impatiently on 'hold' while calling 911. Or panic. Panic and arm themselves to the teeth.

That sounds about right.

Of course, the government would basically do the same thing, except they'd be sitting impatiently on 'hold' with the Pentagon, and they'd be arming their nuclear warheads to the teeth, but that's just quibbling.

Executive orders-The pres. can issue an order for war WITHOUT approval of congress for 60 days before he is required to have congress ratify a declaration of war.

We also have a shadow government-A secret gov. to take over.

What type of disaster are we talking about?

Emergency is a misnomer these days. How many emergencies did Clinton declare during his reign? 40 or more? It's like the boy who cried wolf, only it's the politicians who cry emergency.

No, just you, because you're really annoying. :p

(That was a joke! Don't modbomb me! Please??)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooohhh....I'm going to Moderation and you can't stop me!


...I'm clicking on the liiiiink!

Such as Congress being...taken hostage and unable to vote.
Or every Supreme Court Justice being shown an episode of Jackass and has a heart attack.

1. The building is raided and all the positions of the dead Congressmen are put to election like before.

2. New judges get nominated.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooohhh....I'm going to Moderation and you can't stop me!


...I'm clicking on the liiiiink!I said it was a joke!


Oh mod....that Colodia..... :mad: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Here's a brain buster - What can BUSH do in an emergency?

Here's a brain buster - What can BUSH do in an emergency?

sit stunned reading a childs book trying to understand the words.

Here's a brain buster - What can BUSH do in an emergency?
...Laugh at it's face?

Here's a brain buster - What can BUSH do in an emergency?
There is a standard OPLAN called Garden Plot. It has been used once - to federalize National Guard troops during the Rodney King riots in LA. It is an official OPLAN for the military.

Executive Order Number 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies. The bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic.

Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry. Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation.

General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate: The National Security Act of 1947, which allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities; The 1950 Defense Production Act, which gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy; The Act of August 29, 1916, which authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency; and The International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979.

HURRICANE ANDREW FOCUSED ATTENTION ON FEMA.

FEMA's deceptive role really did not come to light with much of the public until Hurricane Andrew smashed into the U.S. mainland. As Russell R. Dynes, director of the Disaster Research Center of the University of Delaware, wrote in The World and I, "...The eye of the political storm hovered over the Federal Emergency Management Agency. FEMA became a convenient target for criticism." Because FEMA was accused of dropping the ball in Florida, the media and Congress commenced to study this agency. What came out of the critical look was that FEMA was spending 12 times more for "black operations" than for disaster relief. It spent $1.3 billion building secret bunkers throughout the United States in anticipation of government disruption by foreign or domestic upheaval. Yet fewer than 20 members of Congress, only members with top security clearance, know of the $1.3 billion expenditure by FEMA for non-natural disaster situations. These few Congressional leaders state that FEMA has a "black curtain" around its operations. FEMA has worked on National Security programs since 1979, and its predecessor, the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency, has secretly spent millions of dollars before being merged into FEMA by President Carter in 1979.

FEMA has developed 300 sophisticated mobile units that are capable of sustaining themselves for a month. The vehicles are located in five areas of the United States. They have tremendous communication systems and each contains a generator that would provide power to 120 homes, but have never been used for disaster relief. FEMA's enormous powers can be triggered easily. In any form of domestic or foreign problem, perceived and not always actual, emergency powers can be enacted. The President of the United States now has broader powers to declare martial law, which activates FEMA's extraordinary powers. Martial law can be declared during time of increased tension overseas, economic problems within the United States, such as a depression, civil unrest, such as demonstrations or scenes like the Los Angeles riots, and in a drug crisis.

These Presidential powers have increased with successive Crime Bills, particularly the 1991 and 1993 Crime Bills, which increase the power to suspend the rights guaranteed under the Constitution and to seize property of those suspected of being drug dealers, to individuals who participate in a public protest or demonstration. Under emergency plans already in existence, the power exists to suspend the Constitution and turn over the reigns of government to FEMA and appointing military commanders to run state and local governments. FEMA then would have the right to order the detention of anyone whom there is reasonable ground to believe...will engage in, or probably conspire with others to engage in acts of espionage or sabotage. The plan also authorized the establishment of concentration camps for detaining the accused, but no trial.

Three times since 1984, FEMA stood on the threshold of taking control of the nation. Once under President Reagan in 1984, and twice under President Bush in 1990 and 1992. But under those three scenarios, there was not a sufficient crisis to warrant risking martial law. Most experts on the subject of FEMA and Martial Law insisted that a crisis has to appear dangerous enough for the people of the United States before they would tolerate or accept complete government takeover. The typical crisis needed would be threat of imminent nuclear war, rioting in several U.S. cites simultaneously, a series of national disasters that affect widespread danger to the populous, massive terrorist attacks, a depression in which tens of millions are unemployed and without financial resources, or a major environmental disaster.

THREE TIMES FEMA STOOD BY READY FOR EMERGENCY

In April 1984, President Reagan signed Presidential Director Number 54 that allowed FEMA to engage in a secret national "readiness exercise" under the code name of REX 84. The exercise was to test FEMA's readiness to assume military authority in the event of a "State of Domestic National Emergency" concurrent with the launching of a direct United States military operation in Central America. The plan called for the deputation of U.S. military and National Guard units so that they could legally be used for domestic law enforcement. These units would be assigned to conduct sweeps and take into custody an estimated 400,000 undocumented Central American immigrants in the United States. The immigrants would be interned at 10 detention centers to be set up at military bases throughout the country.

REX 84 was so highly guarded that special metal security doors were placed on the fifth floor of the FEMA building in Washington, D.C. Even long-standing employees of the Civil Defense of the Federal Executive Department possessing the highest possible security clearances were not being allowed through the newly installed metal security doors. Only personnel wearing a special red Christian cross or crucifix lapel pin were allowed into the premises. Lt. Col. North was responsible for drawing up the emergency plan, which U.S. Attorney General William French Smith opposed vehemently. The plan called for the suspension of the Constitution, turning control of the government over to FEMA, appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments and the declaration of Martial Law. The Presidential Executive Orders to support such a plan were already in place. The plan also advocated the rounding up and transfer to "assembly centers or relocation camps" of a least 21 million American Negroes in the event of massive rioting or disorder, not unlike the rounding up of the Jews in Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

The second known time that FEMA stood by was in 1990 when Desert Storm was enacted. Prior to President Bush's invasion of Iraq, FEMA began to draft new legislation to increase its already formidable powers. One of the elements incorporated into the plan was to set up operations within any state or locality without the prior permission of local or state authorities. Such prior permission has always been required in the past. Much of the mechanism being set into place was in anticipation of the economic collapse of the Western World. The war with Iraq may have been conceived as a ploy to boost the bankrupt economy, but it only pushed the West into deeper recession. The third scenario for FEMA came with the Los Angeles riots after the Rodney King brutality verdict. Had the rioting spread to other cities, FEMA would have been empowered to step in. As it was, major rioting only occurred in the Los Angeles area, thus preventing a pretext for a FEMA response.

On July 5, 1987, the Miami Herald published reports on FEMA's new goals. The goal was to suspend the Constitution in the event of a national crisis, such as nuclear war, violent and widespread internal dissent, or national opposition to a U.S. military invasion abroad. Lt. Col. North was the architect. National Security Directive Number 52 issued in August 1982, pertains to the "Use of National Guard Troops to Quell Disturbances." The crux of the problem is that FEMA has the power to turn the United States into a police state in time of a real crisis or a manufactured crisis. Lt. Col. North virtually established the apparatus for dictatorship. Only the criticism of the Attorney General prevented the plans from being adopted. But intelligence reports indicate that FEMA has a folder with 22 Executive Orders for the President to sign in case of an emergency. It is believed those Executive Orders contain the framework of North's concepts, delayed by criticism but never truly abandoned. The crisis, as the government now sees it, is civil unrest. For generations, the government was concerned with nuclear war, but the violent and disruptive demonstrations that surrounded the Vietnam War era prompted President Nixon to change the direction of emergency powers from war time to times of domestic unrest.

Proclamations: To declare new holidays and celebrations.
National Security Directives and Presidential Decision Directives: Both of which deal with national security and defense matters.

On October 29, 2001, George W. Bush designated special presidential directives called Homeland Security Presidential Directives or HSPDs to be issued by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the Homeland Security Council. The first such directive created the Homeland Security Council while the second changed immigration policies to combat terrorism.

<snip>
Whoa. Scary...


I'm not going back to the USA!!

Oh, and how would the President know who to round up? Well, the Federal Emergency Management Agency is already working on that...

The first targets in any FEMA emergency would be Hispanics and Blacks, the FEMA orders call for them to be rounded up and detained. Tax protesters, demonstrators against government military intervention outside U.S. borders, and people who maintain weapons in their homes are also targets. Operation Trojan Horse is a program designed to learn the identity of potential opponents to martial law. The program lures potential protesters into public forums, conducted by a "hero" of the people who advocates survival training. The list of names gathered at such meetings and rallies are computerized and then targeted in case of an emergency.

Okay time to educate on constitution:

1. President Dies VP takes over, he dies, Speak of the house, then, Sec of State, so on down the cabinant
2. Once the president is established, he can assign members to any cabinant position for 60 days, during the 60 days each states governor assigns a new senator(s) (some states require a special election)
3. Senate approves cabinant
4. Special election for house of rep
5. Supreme court(they are least important for emergancies)

Also once the president is established, he would have the power to attack what ever insane power that would show jack-ass to the supreme court, War Powers Act.... any questions...

Just a bit of clarification everyone, the chain of presidential succession is: President, then Vice President, then Speaker of the House...after that I have no idea.
On a related topic, has anyone seen VP Dick Cheney since the swearing in ? ( obviously not in PERSON, but on tv or in the news).
I have a crazy theory that Cheney died of a heart attack several months ago, and is on ice somewhere so we Americans don't realize he's dead. After all, if I was Dubya I don't think I'd want people to know they were only one bullet away from being free from the current administration :sniper:

Whoa. Scary...

I'm not going back to the USA!!

Clinton drafted his share of scary FEMA stuff, too. It would seem that as soon as one becomes President, the job is immediately too big for the man and too big for his party.

Just a bit of clarification everyone, the chain of presidential succession is: President, then Vice President, then Speaker of the House...after that I have no idea.
On a related topic, has anyone seen VP Dick Cheney since the swearing in ? ( obviously not in PERSON, but on tv or in the news).
I have a crazy theory that Cheney died of a heart attack several months ago, and is on ice somewhere so we Americans don't realize he's dead. After all, if I was Dubya I don't think I'd want people to know they were only one bullet away from being free from the current administration :sniper:

The President can declare martial law in time of "national emergency". The Armed Forces are under his sole command. At this point in time, even though at war, Bush is extremely popular with officers and enlisted alike. And once he declares it, Congress cannot review a Martial Law action until six months after it has been declared.

Here's a brain buster - What can BUSH do in an emergency?
Dude, read the first post and have some proper etiquette.

Excellent post by the person who complied all that info, but if you're lazy, here's the condensed version:
In a national emergency, the President can strip the citizens' Constitutional freedoms, including banning freedom of speech, freedom of press, and whatnot. However, a big question is where "Crisis" ands and where "National Emergency" begins. Kosovo was a crisis under Clinton, and none of us had our freedoms taken away. 9/11 was technically a crisis, but the Patriot Act essentially made it a semi-emergency.

Then there's the counterbalance of that, where the citizens have a duty to overthrow the government if they think it's being unreasonably oppressive. Many gun nuts are against gun control for this exact reason. Should they have to fight the US military, they want to have many guns and good guns to better the chances of successfully dissolving government. At the same time, the national emergency stays an emergency until congress starts bitching and vote to override the decision.

Dude, read the first post and have some proper etiquette.

Excellent post by the person who complied all that info, but if you're lazy, here's the condensed version:
In a national emergency, the President can strip the citizens' Constitutional freedoms, including banning freedom of speech, freedom of press, and whatnot. However, a big question is where "Crisis" ands and where "National Emergency" begins. Kosovo was a crisis under Clinton, and none of us had our freedoms taken away. 9/11 was technically a crisis, but the Patriot Act essentially made it a semi-emergency.

Then there's the counterbalance of that, where the citizens have a duty to overthrow the government if they think it's being unreasonably oppressive. Many gun nuts are against gun control for this exact reason. Should they have to fight the US military, they want to have many guns and good guns to better the chances of successfully dissolving government. At the same time, the national emergency stays an emergency until congress starts bitching and vote to override the decision.

That's why I believe that the next time that Islamic terrorists strike the US with something at least as big as 9-11, we'll get martial law.

We'll also get:

1. an immediate round-up of all Muslims in the US, and they will be put in internment camps.
2. an immediate round-up of all "anti-American" or "left wing" or "anti-war" protesters - possibly sent to internment camps as well.
3. Immediate changes in sedition laws.
4. Congress technically can't vote on it for six months. By that time, the damage will already have been done.

Actually, the line of succession for President is as follows:

President
Vice President
Speaker of the House
President Pro Tempore of the Senate

Then the cabinet positions in the order they were created.

There's no provision I'm aware of in the event someone drops a dirty bomb on the Capitol Building and wipes out Congress. There's also no provision that I'm aware of in the event of the Supreme Court being destroyed. I actually put provisions into my NS country's constitution for reforming the government in the event of catastrophic events, right down to line of succession if the capital is destroyed in a nuclear attack.

I think the U.S. government is working on it, though I'm not too convinced something solid is in place now.

The President can declare martial law in time of "national emergency". The Armed Forces are under his sole command. At this point in time, even though at war, Bush is extremely popular with officers and enlisted alike. And once he declares it, Congress cannot review a Martial Law action until six months after it has been declared.


Actually he can't, Lincoln did it and the Supreme court already turned it down, now he could order the army to do it but It would be illigal and all someone has to do is say no, and they aren't under his sole command, they do accept his orders most of the time, but if he goes against the joint cheifs, they wouldn't take his order, also for nuclear war at least one other congress approved person(or congreemen) must agree... Martial Law is illigal in the United States, he has no right to declare it....

Actually, the line of succession for President is as follows:

President
Vice President
Speaker of the House
President Pro Tempore of the Senate

Then the cabinet positions in the order they were created.

There's no provision I'm aware of in the event someone drops a dirty bomb on the Capitol Building and wipes out Congress. There's also no provision that I'm aware of in the event of the Supreme Court being destroyed. I actually put provisions into my NS country's constitution for reforming the government in the event of catastrophic events, right down to line of succession if the capital is destroyed in a nuclear attack.

I think the U.S. government is working on it, though I'm not too convinced something solid is in place now.

Homeland Security Presidential Directives (HSPDs) were created after 9/11 for this reason.

They are issued by the President of the United States with the advice of the Homeland Security Council. I do not believe Congress has the power to review them.

Well, overseas, the British Monarchy can dissolve Parliament! What does the Constitution let our government do in the event of an emergency?

Such as Congress being...taken hostage and unable to vote.
Or every Supreme Court Justice being shown an episode of Jackass and has a heart attack.

Obviously, if the President is killed then the VP takes over. If both die then the Secretary of Defense (?) takes over. If all three die then Congress chooses.

BTW, don't turn this topic into an Anti-Bush, Anti-Republican, Anti-Democrat thread. This is purely constitutional discussion and possibilities and scenarios. We already agree that Bush sucks.
The Presidential line of succession, as specified by the United States Constitution and under United States Code Title 3, Section 19 (a.k.a. the Presidential Succession Act of 1947) is currently:

Vice President (Richard B. Cheney)
Speaker of the House of Representatives (J. Dennis Hastert)
President pro tempore of the Senate (Ted Stevens)
Secretary of State (Condoleezza Rice)
Secretary of the Treasury (John W. Snow)
Secretary of Defense (Donald H. Rumsfeld)
Attorney General (Alberto Gonzales)
Secretary of the Interior (Gale Norton)
Secretary of Agriculture (Mike Johanns)
Secretary of Commerce (Carlos Gutierrez, ineligible)
Secretary of Labor (Elaine Chao, ineligible)
Secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael Leavitt)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (Alphonso Jackson)
Secretary of Transportation (Norman Y. Mineta)
Secretary of Energy (Samuel W. Bodman)
Secretary of Education (Margaret Spellings)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs (Jim Nicholson)

Homeland Security Presidential Directives (HSPDs) were created after 9/11 for this reason.

They are issued by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the Homeland Security Council. I do not believe Congress has the power to review them.
Advice, not consent.

Obviously, if the President is killed then the VP takes over. If both die then the Secretary of Defense (?) takes over. If all three die then Congress chooses.
Actually the rank of succession is quite "hardened." During the cold war the national command authority was handed down to different people, they had it planned out to the Attorney Generals of Individual states, if I remember correctly. (Imagine, the Attorney General of Alasky commanding the US nuclear arsenal!)

But at the top it goes:
President
Vice-President
Speaker of the House
Sec State
and so on in the order the cabinet positions were created, until the cabinet is dead, then it goes through a whole list of folks!

Martial Law is illigal in the United States, he has no right to declare it....

Not true.

According to the Supreme Court, in the Milligan case:
"If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."


You'll notice that this already neatly applies to anyone we catch in the locality of actual war, and if they are in a place where there are no US courts.

Such as Guantanamo. Or Wake Island. Or Diego Garcia. It looks like they're already using this precedence.

The Presidential line of succession, as specified by the United States Constitution and under United States Code Title 3, Section 19 (a.k.a. the Presidential Succession Act of 1947) is currently:

Vice President (Richard B. Cheney)
Speaker of the House of Representatives (J. Dennis Hastert)
President pro tempore of the Senate (Ted Stevens)
Secretary of State (Condoleezza Rice)
Secretary of the Treasury (John W. Snow)
Secretary of Defense (Donald H. Rumsfeld)
Attorney General (Alberto Gonzales)
Secretary of the Interior (Gale Norton)
Secretary of Agriculture (Mike Johanns)
Secretary of Commerce (Carlos Gutierrez, ineligible)
Secretary of Labor (Elaine Chao, ineligible)
Secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael Leavitt)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (Alphonso Jackson)
Secretary of Transportation (Norman Y. Mineta)
Secretary of Energy (Samuel W. Bodman)
Secretary of Education (Margaret Spellings)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs (Jim Nicholson)But after Washington is bombed and all members of the government are dead?

Then I become President! MWAHAHAHA! ;)

Advice, not consent.

Correct (It's outlined in HSPD-1). That was a typo. ;)

Not true.

According to the Supreme Court, in the Milligan case:
"If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."


You'll notice that this already neatly applies to anyone we catch in the locality of actual war, and if they are in a place where there are no US courts.

Such as Guantanamo. Or Wake Island. Or Diego Garcia. It looks like they're already using this precedence.

Yes I know, The problem with that above statement is that if you live within any US terroritary, a court applies to you, Guantanamo is a us terroritery(thats why they chose it) thus it doesn't apply, only way the President can declare martial law is if every form of court(from supreme to traffic) becomes defunct and even then it only lasts until a court is reformed... so..... it a limited power at best...

But after Washington is bombed and all members of the government are dead?

Then I become President! MWAHAHAHA! ;)
No because, as someone mentioned, it then goes to the states, (I need that list)

Yes I know, The problem with that above statement is that if you live within any US terroritary, a court applies to you, Guantanamo is a us terroritery(thats why they chose it) thus it doesn't apply, only way the President can declare martial law is if every form of court(from supreme to traffic) becomes defunct and even then it only lasts until a court is reformed... so..... it a limited power at best...

There isn't a court present at the location. So it looks like they're claiming field expediency.

Given that the Republicans hold both houses of Congress as well as the Presidency, if there were sufficient cause for the Republicans to believe that martial law and a national emergency were necessary, I'm not sure that Congress would stop Bush from declaring it.

No because, as someone mentioned, it then goes to the states, (I need that list)Darn it! :(

What does the Constitution let our government do in the event of an emergency?

The President can suspend the Constitution!

Such as Congress being...taken hostage and unable to vote.
Or every Supreme Court Justice being shown an episode of Jackass and has a heart attack.

Congress unable to do its job is somewhat accurate but not totally.

Obviously, if the President is killed then the VP takes over. If both die then the Secretary of Defense (?) takes over. If all three die then Congress chooses.

Wrongo bud. Speaker of the House comes after the Vice President followed by the President Pro Tempre of the Senate then the Secretary of State and then defense.

BTW, don't turn this topic into an Anti-Bush, Anti-Republican, Anti-Democrat thread. This is purely constitutional discussion and possibilities and scenarios. We already agree that Bush sucks.

He does? :D But seriously though, Abraham Lincoln pretty much suspended the Constitution during the Civil War. In a national Emergency, such as say an invasion, the President can pretty much do whatever he wants to defend the country of the United States with or without Congressional approval.

The British Monarchy cannot disolve parliament, the UK is a constitutional monarchy and despite the wording the monarchy has been stripped of all executive powers. The Queen may be the Head of State but she isn't in any position of authority, neither would any other member of the Monarchy.

Oh yeah... I thought the US Military couldn't be involved in law enforcement due to some 1812 Act.

Oh yeah... I thought the US Military couldn't be involved in law enforcement due to some 1812 Act.

1878. Posse Comitatus Act.

But...

if you declare martial law, then then most certainly can become involved.

Consider the federalization of National Guard troops in California - placed under US Federal government authority during the Rodney King riots, in accordance with the OPLAN Garden Plot.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/jtf-la.htm

Here's a brain buster - What can BUSH do in an emergency?

Bomb Afghanistan
Bomb Iraq
Take down Al Qaeda
Get Congress to authorize force on our enemies

Oh wait... that was sarcastic. Never mind.

Given that the Republicans hold both houses of Congress as well as the Presidency, if there were sufficient cause for the Republicans to believe that martial law and a national emergency were necessary, I'm not sure that Congress would stop Bush from declaring it.
In the absence of really serious problems requiring such an emergency, the courts would immediately overturn it, not to mention a huge mass of outraged citizenry, among whom would be me.

The Presidential line of succession, as specified by the United States Constitution and under United States Code Title 3, Section 19 (a.k.a. the Presidential Succession Act of 1947) is currently:

Vice President (Richard B. Cheney)
Speaker of the House of Representatives (J. Dennis Hastert)
President pro tempore of the Senate (Ted Stevens)
Secretary of State (Condoleezza Rice)
Secretary of the Treasury (John W. Snow)
Secretary of Defense (Donald H. Rumsfeld)
Attorney General (Alberto Gonzales)
Secretary of the Interior (Gale Norton)
Secretary of Agriculture (Mike Johanns)
Secretary of Commerce (Carlos Gutierrez, ineligible)
Secretary of Labor (Elaine Chao, ineligible)
Secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael Leavitt)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (Alphonso Jackson)
Secretary of Transportation (Norman Y. Mineta)
Secretary of Energy (Samuel W. Bodman)
Secretary of Education (Margaret Spellings)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs (Jim Nicholson)

And you can add the Secretary of Homeland Security to the list now too Eut.

*Quoted for those that don't read all the pages*

In the absence of really serious problems requiring such an emergency, the courts would immediately overturn it, not to mention a huge mass of outraged citizenry, among whom would be me.

There are recent surveys that indicate that the military and police would go along with it.

All we need is another attack like 9-11, and it WILL happen.

The British Monarchy cannot disolve parliament, the UK is a constitutional monarchy and despite the wording the monarchy has been stripped of all executive powers. The Queen may be the Head of State but she isn't in any position of authority, neither would any other member of the Monarchy.

Theoretically, she can dissolve parliment. You maybe a constitutional monarchy but you don't have a written constitution. The Queen can usurp it can refuse to open parliment. That in effect, dissolves it since she didn't open it, they can't meet.

UN intervention ? :D

The UN couldn't intervene in Darfur... you really think they'd be able to get anything together for an intervention into the US?? :D

The UN couldn't intervene in Darfur... you really think they'd be able to get anything together for an intervention into the US?? :D

Knowing the UN, yes they probably could :D

The whole opening parliament is ceremonial really, if the Queen didn't approve the MPs and open parliament it could still be opened, as I said the Queen doesn't actually have powers as they were stripped after the Second Civil War and thus power actually exists in parliament.

Just for information British politicians have limited emergency powers as such, the power, in legal terms, actually resides in the civil forces like the police and politicians can only ask the police for example to do certain things. They tried to change this and get themselves a bit of draconian power.

The British Armed Forces are unable to participate in law enforcement, they can only support civil forces when directly requested and even then not in a law enforcement capacity.