NationStates Jolt Archive


"Dream Team" military commanders

Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 08:54
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)
Jordaxia
22-06-2005, 09:01
1: Hannibal Barca, greatest general of all time. (African.)
2: Count Belisarius of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) (Europe)
3: Genghis Khan. (Asia)
4: Horatio Nelson *someone has to command the fleets* (Europe)
5: Saladin (Asia)



With them on my side... I don't know how I could lose.
Armatea
22-06-2005, 09:04
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD): Alexander the Great
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600): Subedei Bahadur
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900): Napoleon Bonaparte
3 major continents must be represented: Narses, and Gustavus Adolphus

Count Belisarius of the Eastern Roman Empire

Narses was considered his equal, if not slightly better :D Good choice picking Nelson. Hannibal was tactically brilliant but not strategically.
Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 09:14
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD): Alexander the Great
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600): Subedei Bahadur
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900): Napoleon Bonaparte
3 major continents must be represented: Erwin Rommel, Narses, and Gustavus Adolphus

5 picks, not 6. ;)
Armatea
22-06-2005, 09:18
Bah! I'm tired.

Remove Rommel from the list.
Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 09:19
Bah! I'm tired.

Remove Rommel from the list.

NP
Undelia
22-06-2005, 09:22
My dream team of Generals:

George S. Patton
George Washington
Constantine
Togo Heihachiro
Joan of Arc

Reasons: Washington had the undeniable ability of picking good lower-ranking officers, not to mention he was a great general in his own right. Patton was a genius of a general. He studied Caesar’s journals and was able to somehow utilize them in his own campaign in France. Constantine conquered the entire Roman Empire, starting from a backwater post in Great Britain and working his way South. Togo Heihachiro was a pretty good Admiral. He absolutely crushed the Russian Navy in the Russo-Japanese war. Not to mention, he was said to be very lucky. Maybe Joan was a bit loony, or maybe she was divinely inspired. Either way, she turned the Hundred Years War around at the tender age of 17. Without her, France wouldn't exist today, and by extension, almost every country colonized by England wouldn't.
Terranus
22-06-2005, 09:37
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD): Alexander the Great
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600): Subedei Bahadur
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900): Napoleon Bonaparte
3 major continents must be represented: Narses, and Gustavus Adolphus



Narses was considered his equal, if not slightly better :D Good choice picking Nelson. Hannibal was tactically brilliant but not strategically.

Curse you, I was going to be the one to say Subedei :D (I'm not sure, whether it should be Subedei Bahadur or Subudai Bagatur, I've see both variants being used) My list would be somewhat similar:

1. Hannibal to represent Africa
2. Subudai Bagatur
3. Napoleon Bonaparte
4. Erich von Manstein
5. Tomoyuki Yamashita
Jordaxia
22-06-2005, 09:47
Narses was considered his equal, if not slightly better :D Good choice picking Nelson. Hannibal was tactically brilliant but not strategically.

Strategically, I agree that Hannibal was not the best, but he was still very clever. The whole idea of crossing the alps is strategic gold... the rest of his campaign very nearly worked. The whole basis of hannibal not being strategically the best comes from Maharbal who told Hannibal that whilst he knew how to gain a victory, he knew not how to use it, said after the aftermath of Cannae. However, Hannibal was astute enough to realise that no attack on Rome was likely to succeed, having got a taste of the determination that Roman citizenry demonstrates in both Trasimene and Cannae. He could be fairly certain without needing to attack, that Rome would resist, and he did not have the numbers to assault it and succeed. From this perspective, it adds to Hannibals skill as a strategist to know when not to fight. However, it is spectated, like Carthage before it, that had Hannibal merely advanced on Rome, it would have negotiated. Again this is countered by the fact that not a single senator ever discussed surrender to Hannibal, even in the immediate aftermath of Cannae. There is the possibility, however, that Romes Italian allies would have defected as they did in the South, but no absolutes. To me, Hannibal is a sound strategist, but he is on my team to win battles.
Cadillac-Gage
22-06-2005, 11:10
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff,...

1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD) Sun Wu (Sun Tzu) The reason is obvious.

1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)Belisarius Belisarius never tried to claim the post of Ceasar, he just won battle after battle, campaign after campaign.

1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)W. Tecumseh Sherman Leaders need the best subordinates. Great leaders need the best subordinate Leaders. William T. Sherman was a great officer in service to another Officer, an "enforcer" and a team-player with just enough initiative to accomplish the mission, but not so much that he tried to take the top job.

3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately) Asia, Europe, N. America.
Harlesburg
22-06-2005, 11:24
AntiquityGenghis Kahn(Asia)Julius Ceasar but Continent limit
Pre Gunpowder Charlamagne(Europe)
Pre ModernWallenstien-You wanna pick that prick Adolphus ill take this prick Wallenstien! :D (Europe)
WWIIFreyberg absolute Master and knew the value of his troops as this isnt just about the fluff and flummery of War but of the General staff.(NZ)
AntiquityHannibal gets in becasue of the Continent limit.(Africa)
Glorious Irreverrance
22-06-2005, 11:35
Yeah I agree...

Sun Tzu would provide philosophic understanding (and could create an army out of a whore house/imperial concubines).

Suleyman the Magnificent managed to create one of the largest empires in the "civilised" (sub-mediterranean world). He extended his power base from the area around Egypt and Iraq to include Eastern Europe and North Africa. He also governed it well, whilst leading the invasion of Europe. A man with a head for logistics (and that is the important bit).

Gustavus Adoplhus was the Swedish General-King who utilised the technologies and skills of the gunpowder era to carve out an empire in North Germany. He didn't hang on to it for long, but he was apparently a man with superb tactical skills, and an ability to spot the ingenious. He is the man who dominated the early gunpowder period.

I guess Clausewitz, the master of obvious strategic theory, would have to be included (plus his immense research on all previous generals would mean that he would essentially be a walking book on "wot wassisname did to win that famous battle of whenever".

And unfortunately, unless someone can tell me that he nicked his ideas off someone else, Hitler, for his Blitzkrieg tactical aptitude (just don't call him Fuhrer). the man who essentially worked out modern warfare whilst the rest of the world debated strategic bombing... (which is, without doubt, a really wank idea, that is only ever supported by people with a lot of bombs - for budget justification).

With these five I'd only need a couple of million trained, loyal and well equipped fighting men and women, plus several hundreds of billions of dollars worth of munitions, and I could take over the world!!! (Which makes me think that the current C-in-C of the USA is needed...).


(Note: Suleyman is being considered African)
Glorious Irreverrance
22-06-2005, 11:36
Charlemagne...good call.
Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 12:05
And unfortunately, unless someone can tell me that he nicked his ideas off someone else, Hitler, for his Blitzkrieg tactical aptitude (just don't call him Fuhrer). the man who essentially worked out modern warfare whilst the rest of the world debated strategic bombing... (which is, without doubt, a really wank idea, that is only ever supported by people with a lot of bombs - for budget justification).

Mmmm, sorry, but Hitler didn't "nick his ideas off someone else". He had nothing to do with it at all. Rather than the genius behind the Blitzkrieg (that was primarily Guderian*), Hitler's military ineptness and interference with his commanders is legendary.

*Guderian based a lot of Actung, Panzer! on the works of Captain B.H. Liddell Hart and Major-General J.F.C. Fuller, which in turn was largely based on German Army tactics from late in World War I.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/blitz.htm
Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 12:16
And here's my "dream team":

Ancient: Alexander the Great
Post-ancient pre-gunpowder: Chengis Khan
Pre-modern gunpowder: Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
Modern: Heinz Guderian and Isoroku Yamamoto
Verghastinsel
22-06-2005, 12:17
Sun Tzu
Saladin
Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington
Napoleon Bonaparte
Erwin Rommel

I can't be bothered to type any more.
Taverham high
22-06-2005, 13:09
alexander
richard the lionheart/saladin
nelson
rommel

i dont think thats three continents, ho hum.
Kaledan
22-06-2005, 13:32
I pick Yoko Ono. She split the Beetles up, certainly she can destroy any one of my enemies.
Delator
22-06-2005, 13:40
One must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
Sargon II of Assyria - Commander of Ground Forces - Reunified Assyria with Babylon through conquest, and defeated nearly every other power in the Middle Eastern region. (Asia)

One must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
Mehmed II of the Ottoman Empire - Amphibious Assault Commander - Captured Constantinople and defeated last remaining elements of the Byzantine Empire (Asia)

One must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
James Longstreet: Confederate General - Supreme Strategic Commander - Troops under his command never lost a defensive position. One of the premier commanders of the Civil War. (North America)

Others

Raymond Spruance: U.S. Navy - Naval Commander - Operational mastermind of the vast majority of U.S. naval victories in the Pacific theatre. (North America)

Hugh Dowding: Royal Air Force - Air Force Commander - Pioneered radio and radar coordination of fighter squadrons. Commander of RAF during Battle of Britain. (Europe)
Yupaenu
22-06-2005, 13:53
Chinggis Khan(conquered almost the entire known world)
Ho Chi Min(fought off an army much larger than his, of course he had the advantages of the people knowing the land already and the soviet help)
Odegai Khan(as you can see i like the mongols. Odegai managed to keep the empire lasting for another long while, and even stretched it further than it went. he also developed a good system of trade and things in the places under mongol control)
Atilla the hun(conquered much of europe, which was quite a feat at the time, considering the technological differences between the people he was fighting and his army)
And either Erik the red(He might not have been in any major wars, but he was an extremely good talker, he knew how to convince people into anything. greenland specifically)
Or Benito Mussolini(he did a good job in africa)
Detonator316
22-06-2005, 14:05
I'll go with Field marshall Montgomery from World War II, he whooped Rommel's ass in Africa and Italy.
Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 15:19
Chinggis Khan(conquered almost the entire known world)
Ho Chi Min(fought off an army much larger than his, of course he had the advantages of the people knowing the land already and the soviet help)
Odegai Khan(as you can see i like the mongols. Odegai managed to keep the empire lasting for another long while, and even stretched it further than it went. he also developed a good system of trade and things in the places under mongol control)
Atilla the hun(conquered much of europe, which was quite a feat at the time, considering the technological differences between the people he was fighting and his army)
And either Erik the red(He might not have been in any major wars, but he was an extremely good talker, he knew how to convince people into anything. greenland specifically)
Or Benito Mussolini(he did a good job in africa)

no ancient, no premodern gunpowder, two continents
Daistallia 2104
22-06-2005, 15:28
I pick Yoko Ono. She split the Beetles up, certainly she can destroy any one of my enemies.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

That comes under the standard laws and practices of war. Use that YO, and we may be forced to step up to the Ohio Express' "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy (I've Got Love in My Tummy)". And if you don't know how utterly devastating that is, go listen.
(Even suggesting "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" may be considered a crime against humanity. I know for sure it's a crime against sanity. ;))
Markreich
22-06-2005, 16:13
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)

Ancient: Scipio Africanus (Rome/Europe)
Dark Ages: Ghengis Khan (Mongolia/Asia)
Pre Modern: Napoleon Bonaparte (France/Europe)
Modern: George S Patton (USA/North America)
Open: Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Japan/Asia)

...but who's translating? ;)
Ravenshrike
22-06-2005, 17:41
Gustavus Adoplhus was the Swedish General-King who utilised the technologies and skills of the gunpowder era to carve out an empire in North Germany. He didn't hang on to it for long, but he was apparently a man with superb tactical skills, and an ability to spot the ingenious. He is the man who dominated the early gunpowder period.

He only lost it because he led from the front quite recklessly. He died in a calvary charge.
El Caudillo
22-06-2005, 17:47
Alexander the Great
Genghis Khan
Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson
Ronald Reid-Daly
Whoever commanded the Boers during the Second Anglo-Boer War
El Caudillo
22-06-2005, 17:57
Who commanded the Boers during the Second Anglo-Boer War?
Heron-Marked Warriors
22-06-2005, 18:42
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)

Ancient: Sun Tzu
Post Ancient Pre Gunpowder: Henry 5 of England
Pre Modern Gunpowder: Barclay de Tolly

Also: Napoleon Bonaparte and Shaka Zulu
Kaledan
22-06-2005, 19:27
:eek: :eek: :eek:

That comes under the standard laws and practices of war. Use that YO, and we may be forced to step up to the Ohio Express' "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy (I've Got Love in My Tummy)". And if you don't know how utterly devastating that is, go listen.
(Even suggesting "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" may be considered a crime against humanity. I know for sure it's a crime against sanity. ;))

Even that is no match for the power of Yoko Ono. With her at my command, the armies of darkness will march across the earth!
Markreich
22-06-2005, 19:31
Even that is no match for the power of Yoko Ono. With her at my command, the armies of darkness will march across the earth!

Don't *make* me get Bette Midler... she could whoop Yoko's ass if she has the help of Barbara Streisand... ;)
Sarkasis
22-06-2005, 20:16
1. Sun Tzu (brilliant Chinese general)
2. Belisarius (major ass kicker from the Byzantine empire, thus Euro-asian)
3. Simon Bolivar (liberated large parts of South America from the Spanish)

This combination would work as follows:
1) Bolivar is responsible of special operations. He also raises militias and resorts to hit-and-run tactics against the enemy. He parachute troops behind the enemy lines and resort to sabotage and guerilla warfare. His understanding of troop mobility makes him a good air force general too. His charisma makes him a good public image and raises the morale of troops.
2) Sun Tzu leads the ground troops (tanks and infantry) and is responsible for large-scale strategy and diplomacy. He's cold and inspires respect.
3) Belisarius is responsible for tactics and combat innovations. He also leads the navy. With his kick-ass attitude and complacency for human life, he has no mercy for the enemy troops/prisoners/civilians/resources. He's feared by the enemy.
Vernaher
22-06-2005, 21:51
Sun Tzu really seems like a given on any lists, I'll stick Lord Nelson in for naval commander, Saladin seems like a good fit for post-ancient pre-gunpowder requirements, then I think I'll take Sima Yi, and I need someone not from Europe or Asia so, I think I'll grab J.E.B. Stewart. Sounds like a fairly nice team to me. I considered taking out Stewart and grabbing up Shaka Zulu, but I ultimately decided Stewart would be more useful. If I had to go without the standards of Sun Tzu and Nelson than I'd keep Sima Yi and Stewart, think I would keep Saladin and add Charlemagne, Shaka Zulu is in and that's my non-Nelson/Sun Tzu list.
Delator
22-06-2005, 23:21
bump
North Island
22-06-2005, 23:39
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)
Ancient: Jesus Christ (With his powers who could stop me?)
Post-ancient Pre-Gunpowder: William Wallace
Pre-Modern Gunpowder: James Longstreet
The 3 Left: Michael Collins, Erwin Rommel and Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
Jervengad
23-06-2005, 02:13
Ancient: Sun Tzu- (China/Asia) Reason: It's Sun Tzu
Dark Ages: Ghengis Khan- (Mongolia/Asia) Reason: Took over mainland Asia and would have taken over Europe were it not for the entire dieing thing, and because he started out as an outcast
Pre Modern: Robert E. Lee- (United States of America/North America) Reason: He kept the South going for a really long time
Open: Charlemagne- (France/Europe) Reason: defended Europe
Open: Zhuge Liang- (China/Asia) Reason: See Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Umbrice
23-06-2005, 02:40
1. Sun-Tzu (Asia)
2. Charlemagne (Europe)
3. Robert E. Lee (North America)
Extra: Napoleon Bonaparte
Extra: Lord Nelson
Xenophobialand
23-06-2005, 03:01
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)

Ancient: Hannibal Barca--While I am far more favorable to Scipio Africanus than most, he is more of a strategic commander, and I need a tactical commander in this position more. Plus I need an African ot meet the 3 continents requirement and, let's be fair, Hannibal is still a damn good commander.

Post-Ancient Pre-Gunpowder: Saladin--An excellent commander, he wins out over some of the other giants of this era (William the Conqueror, Richard the Lionheart, Henry II, Edward Longshanks, Khalid) by virtue of his combination of skills. He is an excellent tactical as well as strategic commander, in addition to being an excellent civilian administrator. With Hannibal driving into an opponent's territory, Saladin would make an excellent leader to either support Hannibal or to administrate those territories Hannibal has conquered.

Pre-modern Gunpowder: Robert E. Lee--Everyone always knocks him in favor of Longstreet, but that's primarily because people took his mistake at Gettysburg for the rule rather than the exception. The guy was, put simply, a brilliant strategic commander who also knew how to get the most out of his excellent tactical commanders such as Stonewall and Longstreet. If I had to pick a strategic level commander, Lee would be it, even edging out Guderian.

Others:

1) Claire L. Chennault--Not only was he a gifted airborne commander, but he was also capable of that most unique of talents: winning with whatever was available. Capable, brilliant, and resourceful, Chennault not only served brilliantly in China with the Flying Tigers, proving his exceptional ability to win despite long odds and ineffective equipment, but he also invented the very concept of combined arms with his proposal of airborne combat drops. This guy makes an excellent Air Force commander and overall troubleshooter.

2) Ho Chi Minh--This guy narrowly edges out Spruance. I had to choose between naval power and the ability to win at unconventional warfare, and much as I'm a supporter of naval dominance, this guy is just too good to pass up as a skillful rabblerouser who can tie down and pick apart larger and more powerful conventional forces.
The 45 Cal
23-06-2005, 03:21
Alexander The Great, Saladin, Robert E. Lee, Douglas McArthur and Sun Tzu would be my picks.
Armatea
23-06-2005, 04:00
Am I the only one who thinks Lee was a horrible commander? Many, if not all of his victories have been because he took Stonewall Jackson's advice or Stonewall Jackson's direct action.
Vernaher
23-06-2005, 04:13
-snip-
Open: Zhuge Liang- (China/Asia) Reason: See Romance of the Three Kingdoms

I don't think you really wanna make this pick. By only reading the novel you only get to here Luo Guanzhong endlessly praise Zhuge Liang and the rest of the boys from Shu, when Liu Bei and Zhao Zilong are really the only two that deserve all those accolades. In history Zhuge Liang was a very talented civil official, but he was nowhere NEAR as a good a strategist as Luo Guanzhong makes him out to be.

Am I the only one who thinks Lee was a horrible commander? Many, if not all of his victories have been because he took Stonewall Jackson's advice or Stonewall Jackson's direct action.

Don't worry, you aren't alone. I always thought Lee was horrbily overrated myself, but not as much as Rommel was. It would actually be pretty easy to make the argument that the Confederacy survived so long not because of Lee's ability, but because of ineptitude and an unwillingness to lose troops on the part of the Union commanders until Grant.
Harlesburg
23-06-2005, 06:31
Who commanded the Boers during the Second Anglo-Boer War?
Krueger(SP)

And to anyone that said Longstreet-Picket will have at you! :rolleyes:

Good on you to all who said Charlemagne!

And to the puppets out there who said the Confederacy only survived as long as they did bah!
Tit for tat.
If thats they way you see it if the North had gone on the offensive and Taken the Confederate Capital it would have left Washington open.
Now that would be Embarrasing and quite possibly fatal for the North!
Jervengad
23-06-2005, 07:04
Careful with MacArthur, he will speak out against you if he doesn't like your decisions.
Jervengad
23-06-2005, 07:05
Krueger(SP)

And to anyone that said Longstreet-Picket will have at you! :rolleyes:

Good on you to all who said Charlemagne!

And to the puppets out there who said the Confederacy only survived as long as they did bah!
Tit for tat.
If thats they way you see it if the North had gone on the offensive and Taken the Confederate Capital it would have left Washington open.
Now that would be Embarrasing and quite possibly fatal for the North!

To what army? The south was running out of men
Niccolo Medici
23-06-2005, 07:30
I wrote out a flowing post that was probably 3 pages in length, detail my exact picks, reasons for choosing them, criteria for good generals, etc. Everything. It was my own personal chapter in the the Art of War.

Then Jolt ATE it. Just f*cking ATE it. Can't even recover the damn thing.

Let that be a lesson to us; good generals save their posts before trusting Jolt with anything.
Dominus Gloriae
23-06-2005, 08:27
Very simple: Compose a "dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD):
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600):
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)

Sun Tzu (Asia) strategist
Friedrich II (Europe) Unique strategist, known for hard discipline and oddball plans
George S Patton Jr. (North America) Hard driving, "motivational"
Arthur Wellesy (Duke of Wellington, Europe) The Eisenhower of his day
Lord Louis Mountbatten (Europe) Special Forces wizard, master of unconventional warfare.

I rejected Douglas MacArthur, because he had a tendency to grandstand as with the Inchon Landing, and he would hand out medals for correctly preparing potatoes if it was a good photo op. Lee, depended on his right hand, Jackson, and his left hand Longstreet and his Eyes and Ears James Euell Brown Stuart and so without a good support network Lee would be lost as in Gettysburg where Jackson was dead and Stuart was pussyfooting through Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Heinz Guderian "Die Schnelle Heinz" pioneered Blitzkrieg, but lacked the inspiration to disobey when tactically advantageous. Friedrich Von Paulus was dumb, plain and simple. Montgomery was a prima-donna who was promoted to salvage his ego, to cautious. James Gavin, commander of the 82nd Airborne and Maxwell D. Taylor of the 101st Airborne were tactical commanders, but ultimately they were not as good as Mountbatten, who also understood Special Forces. Napoleon Boneparte would do, in a certain type of warfare, but in modern war I would not trust him, he was fundamentally an artilleryman, and might have difficulty with modern fast paced warfare, where artillery is almost a non issue, and aircraft would baffle him So I choose the Duke of Wellington, for his ability to command and to manage an alliance. Sun Tzu fills the need for a strategic commander, as does Friedrich II of Prussia. Prussians are bad ass. Patton rates over Rommel, because Rommel, wouldn't have been as sucessful as he was without his Abwehr and SD spies. Patton only needed fuel to ensure victory. The original post does not mention admirals although Sir Francis Drake was considered, as was Lord Nelson, and Chester Nimitz.
Niccolo Medici
23-06-2005, 08:42
I don't think you really wanna make this pick. By only reading the novel you only get to here Luo Guanzhong endlessly praise Zhuge Liang and the rest of the boys from Shu, when Liu Bei and Zhao Zilong are really the only two that deserve all those accolades. In history Zhuge Liang was a very talented civil official, but he was nowhere NEAR as a good a strategist as Luo Guanzhong makes him out to be.

True, it really must be remembered that the Romance of the Three Kingdoms was a ROMANCE of that time period. After all, the real Liu Bei was often reduced to banditry and the like, he kinda fell short of his own PR as well. The reasons for the fictional accounts of Guan Yu, Zhuge Liang and the like are well covered in the afterwards of the full version of the story, I belive.

On the other hand, Lord Cao of Wei was actually recorded as being a far better commander than the story portrays (considering he wrote his own history, that's not surprising, the Julius Caeser wannabe ;) ). But his list of victories far outweighs those of his losses, and he is credited with ingeneous tactical and political reforms in his day.
Dominus Gloriae
23-06-2005, 09:19
Ancient: Hannibal Barca--While I am far more favorable to Scipio Africanus than most, he is more of a strategic commander, and I need a tactical commander in this position more. Plus I need an African ot meet the 3 continents requirement and, let's be fair, Hannibal is still a damn good commander.

Post-Ancient Pre-Gunpowder: Saladin--An excellent commander, he wins out over some of the other giants of this era (William the Conqueror, Richard the Lionheart, Henry II, Edward Longshanks, Khalid) by virtue of his combination of skills. He is an excellent tactical as well as strategic commander, in addition to being an excellent civilian administrator. With Hannibal driving into an opponent's territory, Saladin would make an excellent leader to either support Hannibal or to administrate those territories Hannibal has conquered.

Pre-modern Gunpowder: Robert E. Lee--Everyone always knocks him in favor of Longstreet, but that's primarily because people took his mistake at Gettysburg for the rule rather than the exception. The guy was, put simply, a brilliant strategic commander who also knew how to get the most out of his excellent tactical commanders such as Stonewall and Longstreet. If I had to pick a strategic level commander, Lee would be it, even edging out Guderian.

Others:

1) Claire L. Chennault--Not only was he a gifted airborne commander, but he was also capable of that most unique of talents: winning with whatever was available. Capable, brilliant, and resourceful, Chennault not only served brilliantly in China with the Flying Tigers, proving his exceptional ability to win despite long odds and ineffective equipment, but he also invented the very concept of combined arms with his proposal of airborne combat drops. This guy makes an excellent Air Force commander and overall troubleshooter.

2) Ho Chi Minh--This guy narrowly edges out Spruance. I had to choose between naval power and the ability to win at unconventional warfare, and much as I'm a supporter of naval dominance, this guy is just too good to pass up as a skillful rabblerouser who can tie down and pick apart larger and more powerful conventional forces.


Chennault will quit on you and start his own force halfway through, now Raymond K Spruance was Halsey's lap dog, and Halsey took orders from Nimitz, Halsey was also the oldest admiral in the fleet. If you want an Air Force Commander, I'd Reccomend H.H. Arnold (US), C.A. Spaatz(US), Air Chief Marshall Sir Arthur Tedder (UK), Curtis E LeMay (US) or Adolf Galland (GER), or Arthur "Bomber" Harris (UK), why not Gregory "Pappy" Boyington (US)? Unlce Ho? I think you mean Vo Nguyen Giap, right?
Dominus Gloriae
23-06-2005, 09:48
Feld Marschall Paul Von. Klausewitz (Europe)
Colonel Adolf Galland (Europe)
Admiral David G. Farragut (N.America)
Suleiman I (Asia)
Titus Vespasianus (Europe)
Harlesburg
23-06-2005, 12:37
To what army? The south was running out of men
At the start of the war?
Super-power
23-06-2005, 13:28
1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
Sun Tzu
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
Charlemagne
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
Robert E. Lee

My other two would be Alexander the Great and, what the heck, General Eisenhower (just for something modern)
Rhoderick
23-06-2005, 13:31
"dream team" of 5 generals for your general staff, under the following restrictions:

I wouldn't want Napoleon or Cesar as they would superceed me, but here is my list, Forgive the poor spelling. Also I suppose it depends on the type of war you're fighting... mine is fast, low intensity bush war.

1 must be ancient (pre-500 AD)
1 must be post-ancient pre-gunpowder (500-1600)
1 must be pre-modern gunpowder (1600-1900)
3 major continents must be represented (counting Asia and Europe separately)

Leonadies (Sparta) for steadfastness

Saladin (Holy land) for his gyle

Fredrick Selous (British born African) commander of Rhodesian/South African forces at the battle of Kilimangaro, for being THE bush warfare expert of all time.

Ponatalski (Polish/Napoleonic Empire) Napoleon's greatest Marshall that never was - made Marshal posthumorously, for his ability to read a battle and deal with problems.

Che (Bolivian/Honourary Cuban) for his knowledge on running a gurella warfare

if any were to be replaced, it would be either with Wellington or Rommuel.
Rhoderick
23-06-2005, 13:39
Who commanded the Boers during the Second Anglo-Boer War?


Kruger! Paul Kruger I think.... Though command is not the correct term as Boer Commandos were for the most part autonomus of any miliatry hierarcy, in many ways they were finally beaten because they begant to form a fixed hierary
Sonaj
23-06-2005, 13:46
Hannibal (Africa)
Julius Caesar (Europe)
Genghis Khan (Asia)
Erwin Rommel (Europe)
Napoleon Bonaparte (Europe)
Gustaf II Adolf Bernadotte (Europe) bet you didn´t see that one coming :P
El Caudillo
23-06-2005, 17:16
Alexander the Great
Genghis Khan
Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson
Ronald Reid-Daly
Whoever commanded the Boers during the Second Anglo-Boer War

Can't believe no one else picked Ronald Reid-Daly...
Americanan
23-06-2005, 18:22
How was Rommell overrated
Scipii
24-06-2005, 00:38
1.Hannibal Barca
2.Edward IV
3.The Duke of Marlborough
4.George Paton
5.(bit of a wildcard) William of Orange