NationStates Jolt Archive

With four of six teams leaving the WRC next year because of financial reasons, and the recent scandal in Formula 1, is there any future for Motorsport? If so, what branches of it? The WRC is clearly no longer profitable, and Ecclestone is starting to get on quite a lot of the F1 teams's nerves. On the other side, Aston Martin and Maserati have both recently joined endurance racing. So ten, twenty or thirty years from now, what kinds of racing will still be going on, and which ones will no longer be profitable?

Armoured Personel Carrier racing.

Motorbikes

Rally it is well ingrained here

Australian Touring Cars(V8's Holden vs Ford)

Formula 1 will be back just think people wont be able to hate the schu forever as a driver he will retire.

People I think hate FIA, and especially Bernie Ecclestone, more than Schumacher.

well. As I see this, you can't just spend more and more all the time. This applies for everything, from racing to, indeed, politics. They have to find a decent way of manging the costs. Which is eventually impossible as there will always be greedy bastards, who wants to win no matter what the cost, involved. Biz goes beyond everything else, that's old news really. So I don't think they will agree on something like "let's not spend so much, ok?" because someone always will. Or then someone will actually realize that racing is a rather stupid event, everyone quits and the money goes to better purposes. Capeesh?! :rolleyes:

NASCAR continues to expand every year. (here comes the snobbery...)

F1 will probably go throug the same evolution that CHAMP racing went through when it did the same thing years ago. Eccelstone (or whatever) threw his tissy when FIA-GT started to revive itself and ALMS grew-and this years Le Mans was fantastic with all classes being decided in the last hour. Really, though-they need more competitors. They have a worse problem than Shuie with the dominance of the Audis, even though they where made to sweat a little this year.

Endurance sports cars is going to be a hard sell. (4 hours? Yeah? Not the same driver? How many classes? Ah man...) There needs to be sprints to get a viewership.

Rally is impressive as all hell, just not a compitition you can actually watch, just look at highlights. You don't get any sense of the race. I always thought that Rally had the biggest bragging rights for the race on Sunday sell on Monday crowd. (look at the popularity of the Impreza and Lancer). If thats not paying off anymore, and I think it has to, then they are in real trouble. No ideas, just that read.

It's highs and lows with racing and always will be. I think sports cars may be having their day in the sun for a short time. I wish old school Trans Am racing, muscle cars on road courses with cars that can be rented from Hertz. But thats just a fantasy of mine.

As far as road course racing, I suspect GT Class will enjoy a rennaisance. Its already strong in various guises regionaly, so an international league may coalesce and shine for a few decades. Motorsport is an ever changing beast. The cars my old man raced back in the days of Can-Am have litttle resemblance beyond four wheels and combustion engine to what is being raced nowadays. Thats why Motrosport is such an interesting sport, I think.

I think the American zeal for "X-treme!" Anything could intersect nicely with the world wide love of rally and begin a much greater interest in my all time favourite form of Motrosport: RALLY RAID!

As for F1, anyone who hates it ONLY because of the Schu is a sore loser of the kind I'd never want to compete against. The Schu is no angel and can be, has been and will be dirty no and and again, but he's also a brilliant driver. Some people just can't stomach a true champion. Its shows them how small they really are.

You can hate the Schu, go ahead (I don't, but I'm a kraut) but don't hate the sport because of him. Hating F1 because of Nosley and Ecclestoned on the other hand is perfectly understandable. They're both old, and will die, soon one hopes. Then things will change for the better in F1, but in the meantime some other form of racing will have captured the publics imagination (remember Can-Am?)

People I think hate FIA, and especially Bernie Ecclestone, more than Schumacher.
Bernie has suddenly emerged from this hole but Schu has always given people this rage.
I guess People just dont like German/Hungarians...

--snip--

It's highs and lows with racing and always will be. I think sports cars may be having their day in the sun for a short time. I wish old school Trans Am racing, muscle cars on road courses with cars that can be rented from Hertz. But thats just a fantasy of mine.


Not just you. I think many would love that. My dad was a race car driver back in the day when being a privateer meant a blue collar worker with no wife & kids could afford to race all season (and even WIN sometimes, gasp!) I wish so much for those days to return. Maybe if enough of us pray loud and obnoxiously enough the Big Fat Dude Upstairs will grant our wishes. In the meantime there's the SCCA Runoffs :)

People I think hate FIA, and especially Bernie Ecclestone, more than Schumacher.
Bernie has suddenly emerged from this hole but Schu has always given people this rage.
I guess People just dont like German/Hungarians...

As far as road course racing, I suspect GT Class will enjoy a rennaisance. Its already strong in various guises regionaly, so an international league may coalesce and shine for a few decades. Motorsport is an ever changing beast. The cars my old man raced back in the days of Can-Am have litttle resemblance beyond four wheels and combustion engine to what is being raced nowadays. Thats why Motrosport is such an interesting sport, I think.

I think the American zeal for "X-treme!" Anything could intersect nicely with the world wide love of rally and begin a much greater interest in my all time favourite form of Motrosport: RALLY RAID!

As for F1, anyone who hates it ONLY because of the Schu is a sore loser of the kind I'd never want to compete against. The Schu is no angel and can be, has been and will be dirty no and and again, but he's also a brilliant driver. Some people just can't stomach a true champion. Its shows them how small they really are.

You can hate the Schu, go ahead (I don't, but I'm a kraut) but don't hate the sport because of him. Hating F1 because of Nosley and Ecclestoned on the other hand is perfectly understandable. They're both old, and will die, soon one hopes. Then things will change for the better in F1, but in the meantime some other form of racing will have captured the publics imagination (remember Can-Am?)
mmmm Can Am......I got to see Hurley Haywood race in the 917/30 at Laguna Seca during Porsche's 50th aniv. It would squat and belch fire out of turn 8. Sooooooooo fast. I wish I could have seen it raced when people weren't worried about destroying it.

USAC actually tried to revive Can Am, well the name anyway. Really they where just World Sports Cars....

Not just you. I think many would love that. My dad was a race car driver back in the day when being a privateer meant a blue collar worker with no wife & kids could afford to race all season (and even WIN sometimes, gasp!) I wish so much for those days to return. Maybe if enough of us pray loud and obnoxiously enough the Big Fat Dude Upstairs will grant our wishes. In the meantime there's the SCCA Runoffs :)
My grandpa raced before WWII and shortly after until my dad was born. Same story, blue collar, greased elbows, run what ya brung.

Spec racing fills the void a little and provides room for the gentleman racer to still race a serious car on a fixed sum. And there is a variety of forms out there. I'd love to get to a point where I could afford that.

A good thing I saw in motorbikes a couple of years back, was the effort to introduce new, more exotic designs of bikes in the races. That feels like a good move towards originality and potentially better market applications for the engines/machines involved.

IMO, two things can provide more originality to motorsports and make them more appealing to wider audiences : 1) safety leniency/expansion 2) exotic themes and technologies.

With cars (like the current F1 machines for instance) that can literally be driven up-side down (9-10g downforces), the only limitation is in safety regulations. As proven practices and radical things become more common and tested, "safe" standards will be expanded upwards, as long as we don't end up with a remote-controlled machine simply carrying people around...

On the other (more exotic) hand, I expect a series of new vehicles to begin competing each other within the next two decades. Aircars, small subs, and eventually sub-orbital air/space crafts...

I'm just barely old enough to remember Can-Am at Mossport (what an amazing track) hangin' out in the pits with my dad as he fiddled with his bosses car. When the fuckers rolled into pit lane the 2 1/2 thich concrete support pillars would visibly shake. Ahhhh, the smell of petrol fumes and motor oil, the flashy livery, the rumble of engines, the shriek of air whooshing by as it tried to fill the void left by the car that just carved through it. I was only 4 years old, and it was the last year it happened, but with my dad's many stories filling in the gaps, its a very strong memory. Mostly I remeber the pits shaking and the fear of God those cars put into me even at such a young age. Its all hazy to be honest, but its a powerful memory nonetheless (well, a 4 year old boy is VERY impressionable)

Mostly what I rember of racing is the Lotus 23-B and Ferrari Dino my dads boss raced in SCCA type enduro races, and the insane old porsche 914 my dad raced when he could afford it all. My mom convinced him to stop when I was 9, after a friend of his died during a dust up with a tree during a rally. My dad saw the whole thing unfold, so it didn't take much for my mom to get him to give up the sport.


You're not alone in wishing for a Hetz-Rent-A-Brute-Of-A-Race-Car League. Lots of people would love it. Maybe when I'm more solvent I'll start knocking on doors and gathering all us Race loving poor boys and girls together, and make it happen. Its worth a try anyway.

I'm thinking:
Rally
MotoGp+ other motorbikes
Formula 1,which has no ferrari
some ferrari serie only
Gp2 maybe

I'm just barely old enough to remember Can-Am at Mossport (what an amazing track) hangin' out in the pits with my dad as he fiddled with his bosses car. When the fuckers rolled into pit lane the 2 1/2 thich concrete support pillars would visibly shake. Ahhhh, the smell of petrol fumes and motor oil, the flashy livery, the rumble of engines, the shriek of air whooshing by as it tried to fill the void left by the car that just carved through it. I was only 4 years old, and it was the last year it happened, but with my dad's many stories filling in the gaps, its a very strong memory. Mostly I remeber the pits shaking and the fear of God those cars put into me even at such a young age. Its all hazy to be honest, but its a powerful memory nonetheless (well, a 4 year old boy is VERY impressionable)

Mostly what I rember of racing is the Lotus 23-B and Ferrari Dino my dads boss raced in SCCA type enduro races, and the insane old porsche 914 my dad raced when he could afford it all. My mom convinced him to stop when I was 9, after a friend of his died during a dust up with a tree during a rally. My dad saw the whole thing unfold, so it didn't take much for my mom to get him to give up the sport.


You're not alone in wishing for a Hetz-Rent-A-Brute-Of-A-Race-Car League. Lots of people would love it. Maybe when I'm more solvent I'll start knocking on doors and gathering all us Race loving poor boys and girls together, and make it happen. Its worth a try anyway.
You said 914. Your dad is now my hero. (I had a ratty ass 914 for a few years until the sadest day of my life, the day I drove the 914 from the Bay Area to Sacramento to relinquish it in defeat. I have much love for the 914.)

I'm thinking:
Rally
MotoGp+ other motorbikes
Formula 1,which has no ferrari
some ferrari serie only
Gp2 maybe
I think that, even though F1 existed long before Ferrari, it would be hard to consider it F1 now a days without Ferrari. Adrian Newey didn't kill F1, Senna didn't. Everyonce in a while someone comes to dominance and the thrill really starts to become watching to see when they'll be trumped (like watching a Jeapordy champ. Sort of.)

I'd like to see whatever the Champion Spark Plug Challenge is being called these days...gah....can't remember....they broke it into sports and touring cars, sanctioned by SCCA...lightly modified street cars...Integras where dominatiing for a while...anyway-the fielded 40+ in each class for 45 minute sprints with a healthy field of privateers. It was almost a better race than the main event (ALMS at Sears Point, with the BMW doing what Audi is doing now-killin'.) I'd like to see that get more prominance.

Am I the only person who doesn't have a problem with Ecclestone? The guy went from team owner to series owner, well done to him.
As for Max Mosley, until last year when he was going to retire, then suddenly decided he wasn't, and then seemed to attack every part of F1, I thought he had done an ok job. He just seems to have lost it now with political infighting with the teams and trying to get his way (nee US GP).

As for the future of Motorsport, people will keep racing cars, whether it be a track day style event or Formula 1, Motorsport will continue for the forseeable future at least.

With four of six teams leaving the WRC next year because of financial reasons, and the recent scandal in Formula 1, is there any future for Motorsport? If so, what branches of it? The WRC is clearly no longer profitable, and Ecclestone is starting to get on quite a lot of the F1 teams's nerves. On the other side, Aston Martin and Maserati have both recently joined endurance racing. So ten, twenty or thirty years from now, what kinds of racing will still be going on, and which ones will no longer be profitable?

I find racing to be to far from reality to be of any interest.

1. The cars they race have no bearing on the kinds of cars the manufacturers really make - if I make the mistake of buying a Renault, it has no real technology transfer from the Renault F1 racecar - any more than it does from the Space Shuttle.

2. The cars are technological freaks.

3. I believe the tracks are too easy for the cars and drivers.

4. Most of the car companies make cars that very few people drive. Come on, how many people drive a Ferrari or a Maserati?

5. I believe that a better indicator of skill would be to force the drivers to drive an identical car, identically equipped, and with weights added to make the driver's weight equal among cars. The car should be something that is a straight production model (more than 1 million cars sold per year). That would be a test of skill - not this farce that passes for racing in Europe and the US.

I find racing to be to far from reality to be of any interest.

1. The cars they race have no bearing on the kinds of cars the manufacturers really make - if I make the mistake of buying a Renault, it has no real technology transfer from the Renault F1 racecar - any more than it does from the Space Shuttle.

2. The cars are technological freaks.
It is by pushing the envelope that we make new discoveries which can then be applied to everyday use. Think of the extreme solutions to complex problems which led to the evolution of your cell phone, for example. The microwave technology came from Britain when they had to know where to deploy their much smaller air force to repel the Luftwaffe. The sat technology began as a posturing outlet for the Cold War.

3. I believe the tracks are too easy for the cars and drivers.
Define easy. The easiest tracks to drive in the US are Talladega and Daytona, 2.5M tri-ovals with 30-degree banks in the corners that mean the racers never have to get off the accelerator. Those tracks are famous for wrecks that wipe away half the field. Avoiding "the big one" is a key race-day strategy there.

4. Most of the car companies make cars that very few people drive. Come on, how many people drive a Ferrari or a Maserati?
They also make up a very small proportion of the cars driven in competitive racing.

5. I believe that a better indicator of skill would be to force the drivers to drive an identical car, identically equipped, and with weights added to make the driver's weight equal among cars. The car should be something that is a straight production model (more than 1 million cars sold per year). That would be a test of skill - not this farce that passes for racing in Europe and the US.
Congratulations. You just invented IROC. Well, the IROC car isn't a production model, but otherwise, you're there. Besides... who wants to see Honda Accords running laps? You can see that on the freeway.

Besides, which takes more skill? Handling a car at 120mph in the corner, or 200mph?

Besides, which takes more skill? Handling a car at 120mph in the corner, or 200mph?

Trying to take a corner at 120 mph in a Honda Accord is much, much harder than taking the same corner at 180 mph in an F1 racecar.

That's just F1, though. A NASCAR vehicle would go into the wall in that corner.

Trying to take a corner at 120 mph in a Honda Accord is much, much harder than taking the same corner at 180 mph in an F1 racecar.
NASCAR runs a more or less spec formula, which is what you are calling for. As far as wanting to see Accords on the race track, you're looking for The SPEED World Challenge Series (http://www.world-challenge.com/). That or the Trans-Am (http://www.trans-amseries.com/) series, which is the NASCAR spec formula on road courses.

And again, NASCAR runs on Watkins Glen and Sears Point, two very tough drivers road courses.

In those same races with Ferrari (Maserati no longer races, but may return) there is also companies like Ford and Honda. Honda specificly markets their track to road car practice. The NSX down to the RSX all benifit from thier racing program. Clutchless shifting comes directly from racing. (Admitedly that is an affectation, but still...)

Rally racing, which has the closest relation to the street car, has more or less bred a whole type of car.

That's just F1, though. A NASCAR vehicle would go into the wall in that corner.
NASCAR takes turns at 180 for up to 5 hours.

NASCAR runs a more or less spec formula, which is what you are calling for. As far as wanting to see Accords on the race track, you're looking for The SPEED World Challenge Series (http://www.world-challenge.com/). That or the Trans-Am (http://www.trans-amseries.com/) series, which is the NASCAR spec formula on road courses.

And again, NASCAR runs on Watkins Glen and Sears Point, two very tough drivers road courses.

In those same races with Ferrari (Maserati no longer races, but may return) there is also companies like Ford and Honda. Honda specificly markets their track to road car practice. The NSX down to the RSX all benifit from thier racing program. Clutchless shifting comes directly from racing. (Admitedly that is an affectation, but still...)

Rally racing, which has the closest relation to the street car, has more or less bred a whole type of car.


Well, I think that Indy and F1 is a complete waste of time.

NASCAR takes turns at 180 for up to 5 hours.
Depends on the corner. Daytona? No problem. California? Possible problem. Bristol? Big problem. Martinsville? No more problems, ever.

Bernie has suddenly emerged from this hole but Schu has always given people this rage.
I guess People just dont like German/Hungarians...
I dont like Schumacher because he has no respect for the other drivers (save for Hakkinen when he was still about, and possibly Raikkonen now), he cheats, and he has no respect for the sport either.

But hes a great driver, no matter how much i dislike him.

I have always disliked Ecclestone.



edit:

if anybody is interested, Paul Stoddart (boss of Minardi) has laid out here (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=24926) exactly what happened at the US GP at the weekend

I think that, even though F1 existed long before Ferrari, it would be hard to consider it F1 now a days without Ferrari
not true, Formula One started on the 13th of May 1950 at Silverstone, and Ferrari entered at the very next race (and one of their cars finished second...not bad for first time out)

Took them until Silverstone 1951 before they won a race, though.

not true, Formula One started on the 13th of May 1950 at Silverstone, and Ferrari entered at the very next race (and one of their cars finished second...not bad for first time out)

Took them until Silverstone 1951 before they won a race, though.
I was thinking more in terms of 'Grand Prix' which is what official F1 stemmed out of, which predates WWI.

Am I the only person who doesn't have a problem with Ecclestone? The guy went from team owner to series owner, well done to him.
As for Max Mosley, until last year when he was going to retire, then suddenly decided he wasn't...
Ecclestone and Mosley? ...they are the cancer of F1

good riddance!

I wish I could personally kick their asses on their way out...

I was thinking more in terms of 'Grand Prix' which is what official F1 stemmed out of, which predates WWI.
Should have said that then ;)

Enzo was running the Alfas under the name Scuderia Ferrari from the early 1930s, IIRC

You're not alone in wishing for a Hetz-Rent-A-Brute-Of-A-Race-Car League. Lots of people would love it. Maybe when I'm more solvent I'll start knocking on doors and gathering all us Race loving poor boys and girls together, and make it happen. Its worth a try anyway.


SCCA GT Racing cars are only 50,000$(Half of what the next chepist car cost) and its a national tourig series

Australian Touring Cars(V8's Holden vs Ford)



I'd Pesonally Like to see them race a couple races here(Possibly Laguna Seca and maybe Cali Infield) And an interrmediate Oval(Las Vegas) And see how it turns out

Should have said that then ;)

Enzo was running the Alfas under the name Scuderia Ferrari from the early 1930s, IIRC
It's like that Classical thing-it really only covers 50 years but you know what I mean when I say it...:)

A lot of the drivers of the pre-war era became the builders of the post war era. Enzo worked for and drove for Alfa doing designs then broke out on his own.

It's like that Classical thing-it really only covers 50 years but you know what I mean when I say it...:)
Heh, ok

A lot of the drivers of the pre-war era became the builders of the post war era. Enzo worked for and drove for Alfa doing designs then broke out on his own.
Yea, although he never did any design himself, just hired people to do it. If i remember reading properly he wasnt much as a racing driver, but he had a talent for picking drivers, like Nuvolari (and later Villeneuve)

I dont like Schumacher because he has no respect for the other drivers (save for Hakkinen when he was still about, and possibly Raikkonen now), he cheats, and he has no respect for the sport either.

But hes a great driver, no matter how much i dislike him.

I have always disliked Ecclestone.



-snip-

I like the Schu,(not love) but I understand your dislike. Kinda like I used to hate Nigel Mansel and Damon Hill. I just hate the way British commentators take shit from joy every time a British driver does anything remotely fantastic, and can't shut up any time a German driver (doesn't have to the Schu) makes the slightest mistake. Hill was pretty damn good, and Mansell was incredible (I cheered loud and hard when he won the Indy Championship at his first stab at it :cool: ) But to listen to the Englishmen giving a commentary, if either of those drivers did the tiniest little thing well, they'd start predicting a win for them, even if they were in the middle or back of the pack the entire race through. A bias for your countrymen is understandable, but those Blighties would shit themselves if Mansel simply made it through a turn. Made it very difficult to cheer for the man. (Jackie Stewart was always good for a laugh when he tried to curb their enthusiasm)

I think if there were less Englishmen *of the older generation* involved at the top end of FIA/F1, things would vastly improve. Anyone who has raced in any British dominated (in management/rules etc.) league from amateur to pro knows what I speak off. The ex-pat English in Candada's amateur racing leagues are constantly demonstrating and bias against drivers of non-British/British background thats five miles wide and they don't even bother to hide.

If you're German or Italian, or wrose yet German and driving an Italian car (thats me : guilty!) a British Marshall will screw you six ways-til-tuesday using all kinds of made up rules. I think F1 is a great example of this on a larger scale. If Eccles and Mosley had played fair, they'd have nailed Schumacher to a tree long ago

The most baffling thing about it is British drivers I've talked to (and am friends with) in our liitle amateur league and all over N. America agree...and don't like it. Its all Old-Boys Club types anyway. The younger ones couldn't give a toss, just like everyone else.

When Mosley and Ecclestone finally kick the bucket, F1 will greatly improve.

I'd like to see something creative and more visibly athletic. I know you have to be in shape to race. But It's really not easy to see how strenuous racing is. Also, there seems to be an annoying trend to try to make racing safer. I don't approve. Here's my idea:

Perfectly smooth wedges with high-powered engines and no place for the driver to sit. The steering wheel and other controls are mounted to the roof. The drivers have to drive while clinging to the top of the vehicle and hanging on for dear life. For maximum effect, the drivers should wear only boxers. What do you think? Is it the Future? :D

Oh yeah: I still say Rally Raid is the way to go.

Someday, I'm going to enter the Paris-Dakkar. I just hope my Dad is around to see it.

SCCA GT Racing cars are only 50,000$(Half of what the next chepist car cost) and its a national tourig series
I think that would be touring. The GTs would be the Vettes and Porsches and BMW, so you could be a backmarker...

We where talking about that 68-72 heyday of Trans Am when Hertz would rent Shelby 500s for public road use. People would rent the Shelby's, buy the insurance, bolt in roll cages and go racing and return them the next Monday. Hertz wasn't neccisarily thrilled, but they did get the cars rented and kept it going for a bit, so...

That transition, from the late sixties to post-gas crisis racing was a major shift away from the shade tree 'gentleman driver.' I guess in a lot of ways it was behind the wave of other sports...but still it's hard not to romantisize the last of that generation, that created monsterous race cars like the old Trans Am racers and the Can Am cars (though Penske made the transition to modern big shot (a friend went to qualifying for the Monterey Grand Prix and called me after Penske and Andretti walked right past them to tell me that they wheren't ten feet tall...), so it's hard to put him with the 'gentleman driver' catagory).

There are spec series where you can rent a car that you run-there are a bunch actually, but it's not quite the same as the old Hertz Trans Am days...

I'd like to see something creative and more visibly athletic. I know you have to be in shape to race. But It's really not easy to see how strenuous racing is. Also, there seems to be an annoying trend to try to make racing safer. I don't approve. Here's my idea:

Perfectly smooth wedges with high-powered engines and no place for the driver to sit. The steering wheel and other controls are mounted to the roof. The drivers have to drive while clinging to the top of the vehicle and hanging on for dear life. For maximum effect, the drivers should wear only boxers. What do you think? Is it the Future? :D
There are those who say (you know "those"...who do the "saying") that it's only a matter of time before a driver has the balls to lay forward in the car to make it that much more flat...theres some danger for ya! (I don't see it being that much of andvatage and scary as all hell, but hey...)

I still don't know if you can get much more dangerous than GP Motorcycles. Ever watch a 'Where are they now" retrospective of motorcycle racers? Most of them now are in wheelchairs...

I like the Schu,(not love) but I understand your dislike. Kinda like I used to hate Nigel Mansel and Damon Hill. I just hate the way British commentators take shit from joy every time a British driver does anything remotely fantastic, and can't shut up any time a German driver (doesn't have to the Schu) makes the slightest mistake. Hill was pretty damn good, and Mansell was incredible (I cheered loud and hard when he won the Indy Championship at his first stab at it :cool: ) But to listen to the Englishmen giving a commentary, if either of those drivers did the tiniest little thing well, they'd start predicting a win for them, even if they were in the middle or back of the pack the entire race through. A bias for your countrymen is understandable, but those Blighties would shit themselves if Mansel simply made it through a turn. Made it very difficult to cheer for the man. (Jackie Stewart was always good for a laugh when he tried to curb their enthusiasm)

Theyre not like that now...Martin Brundle is a brilliant commentator, and he knows everybody in F1 (thats what happens when you worked with most of them over 12 years), and while James Allen is a twat with an annoying voice, hes more biased towards Ferrari as theyre his favourite team (he called his son Enzo :rolleyes: )

I think if there were less Englishmen *of the older generation* involved at the top end of FIA/F1, things would vastly improve. Anyone who has raced in any British dominated (in management/rules etc.) league from amateur to pro knows what I speak off. The ex-pat English in Candada's amateur racing leagues are constantly demonstrating and bias against drivers of non-British/British background thats five miles wide and they don't even bother to hide.
Aye, but thats the thing though. Most motorsport related companies are British, thats just how it is.

And the FIA isnt so British dominated as you think, it just happens that the President is. The World Motorsport Council is made up of representatives from all over, and they decide who is President.

If you're German or Italian, or wrose yet German and driving an Italian car (thats me : guilty!) a British Marshall will screw you six ways-til-tuesday using all kinds of made up rules. I think F1 is a great example of this on a larger scale. If Eccles and Mosley had played fair, they'd have nailed Schumacher to a tree long ago
Heh, funny how lately the FIA has been screwing the British teams and have almost gone out of their way to help Ferrari by reinterpreting rules for them.


When Mosley and Ecclestone finally kick the bucket, F1 will greatly improve.
It looks like even Ecclestone is getting tired of Mosley...at the weekend he was backing all the teams against him, and was telling Mosley to do what they wanted, and then was very annoyed when he refused.

Oh yeah: I still say Rally Raid is the way to go.

Someday, I'm going to enter the Paris-Dakkar. I just hope my Dad is around to see it.
One of these days me and my brother are going to try Class 11 VWs at the Baja 1000. (stock VW bugs, lucky if they finish in the max time...). Then, if we get money, the modified ones...

(I may have got the classes mixed up. We are very far away from being able to do it, so I'm not so up to date...)

I still don't know if you can get much more dangerous than GP Motorcycles. Ever watch a 'Where are they now" retrospective of motorcycle racers? Most of them now are in wheelchairs...
I know how you can get more dangerous.

not GP motorcycling, road race motorcycling. on closed public country roads with the odd hay bale in front of lamposts. The mot famous is the Isle of Man TT, 3 people died racing there this year, i think.

It used to be (along with the Ulster GP which is also roads, and the course is about 5 miles from my house...I could go drive it now, and in 2 months theyll close it for racing) a round of the 500cc World Championship, and they still race World and British Superbikes there (the bikes of that spec, not as part of the championships)

its dangerous business, but they know the risks when they get onto the bikes.

makes for absolutely incredible racing though, way better than GPs :D

There are those who say (you know "those"...who do the "saying") that it's only a matter of time before a driver has the balls to lay forward in the car to make it that much more flat...theres some danger for ya! (I don't see it being that much of andvatage and scary as all hell, but hey...)

I still don't know if you can get much more dangerous than GP Motorcycles. Ever watch a 'Where are they now" retrospective of motorcycle racers? Most of them now are in wheelchairs...

The living ones, right?

I know how you can get more dangerous.

not GP motorcycling, road race motorcycling. on closed public country roads with the odd hay bale in front of lamposts. The mot famous is the Isle of Man TT, 3 people died racing there this year, i think.

It used to be (along with the Ulster GP which is also roads, and the course is about 5 miles from my house...I could go drive it now, and in 2 months theyll close it for racing) a round of the 500cc World Championship, and they still race World and British Superbikes there (the bikes of that spec, not as part of the championships)

its dangerous business, but they know the risks when they get onto the bikes.

makes for absolutely incredible racing though, way better than GPs :D
The Isle of Man TT is one of the only races that I want to see but wouldn't want to race myself...yikes, yikes I say. I don't know how they keep the bikes up with those giant balls...

The living ones, right?
Right. Don't know which ones are the lucky ones.

Watching the wrecks in motorcycle racing really reminds you how much not a man you are, or at least how far you have to go (okay, this might just be me) but they'll bail into each other-four of 'em just go slidin' and tumblin' for 100 feet until they ram into a haybail. They get and run straight to the motorcycle to see if it's still running and try to get back out there. Christ o mighty. I drop my motorcycle putting up the kick stand and I start to not want to go anymore...(exageratted-I tried to kick start mine once not realising I had left it in gear...it rolled forward and dumped me in the mud right in front of the ticket clerk at the movie theater I had just left...probably made her day...)

Right. Don't know which ones are the lucky ones.

Watching the wrecks in motorcycle racing really reminds you how much not a man you are, or at least how far you have to go (okay, this might just be me) but they'll bail into each other-four of 'em just go slidin' and tumblin' for 100 feet until they ram into a haybail. They get and run straight to the motorcycle to see if it's still running and try to get back out there. Christ o mighty. I drop my motorcycle putting up the kick stand and I start to not want to go anymore...(exageratted-I tried to kick start mine once not realising I had left it in gear...it rolled forward and dumped me in the mud right in front of the ticket clerk at the movie theater I had just left...probably made her day...)

WOuld've made mine. :)

The Isle of Man TT is one of the only races that I want to see but wouldn't want to race myself...yikes, yikes I say. I don't know how they keep the bikes up with those giant balls...
yea, the same guys do it every few weeks over here (Ireland) on similar courses.

on one of them they hit 200mph on a treelined 2 mile straight.....

the difference between here and the TT is that here they do it mass start, all racing together (probably more dangerous), whereas at the TT is staggered start and timed for safety