NationStates Jolt Archive

The title says it, unfortunately, there can only be 10 options :(

I worship Chaos.

I worship Chaos. No, do not worship Chaos! Bend it to your own purposes of vengeance!

Where's Buddhism? Or am I blind and distracted by interesting things in the background?

oops, sorry. Flipping only ten options

ouch, yes. and buddhisms a bigun. you should have at least put other. that way when i go all nihilistic i can count that as a religion.

Atheist/Agnostic.

And why is it multiple choice?

How many Shinto Christians are there who are Atheist?

Ah the poll is available now... still, I don't see my religion on the list (I don't mean Chaos... do I?) so I can't vote.

Maybe I should just vote Rasta so it'll get at least one vote.

should have

Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Take the Southern Baptists cross them with Reformed Presbyterians and make them all Liberal Democrats. That's a Disciple.

www.disciples.org (http://www.disciples.org/)

Wow...Ilike the divercity!! I don't really have a religion but I Belive that there is a spiritual side of life that is best seen in nature. You know....all that hippy crap....I'm a tree hugger in Acadamia :cool:

River Hawke

Well, I would call myself Chrisitan. But the discussions of the last few days with other Christians here have started to turn me into an agnostic...

I'm an Eccletic Pagan, and a bit of an odd one, at that.

I R Agnostic! But I was Catholic until age ten, but I have a crapload of books on religion, so I'm not ignorant of other religions. Don't know why, but ever since I stopped being Christian, my interest in world religions grew...

Don't know why, but ever since I stopped being Christian, my interest in world religions grew...

christianity tends to... not like other religions. catholicism is actually the worst ive seen, as it it the only form of christianity that says "This and ONLY THIS form of christianity will get you into heaven"
that, and when christianity mentions other religions it is usually in an overly de-glamorized way. (ie. those heathens in poverty stricken nations seems to be a phrase ive heard used)

PET PEEVE ALERT

Grouping atheist and agnostic together is as insulting as if you grouped Jew and Muslim together.

I chose Atheist/Agnostic, since I tend to hover between the two. But there really should be an option other; this is the general forum.

PET PEEVE ALERT

Grouping atheist and agnostic together is as insulting as if you grouped Jew and Muslim together.

How is that insulting? They are similar, where one discounts the belief in a God entirely, the other believes in that there is no God in the usual religious sense of an all-mighty creator that smites people, but there is something out there making things tick. And both are usually not religious at all.

catholicism is actually the worst ive seen, as it it the only form of christianity that says "This and ONLY THIS form of christianity will get you into heaven

Actually the fundamentalists are even worse about this than the Catholics. There's not even a comparison.

ive seen variations of agnosticism where they believe in one or more gods/teachings, and still acknoledge (sp?) they may be wrong.
atheism there is no doubt in the persons mind that there is no god, heaven, hell, diety, whatever.

ive seen variations of agnosticism where they believe in one or more gods/teachings, and still acknoledge (sp?) they may be wrong.
atheism there is no doubt in the persons mind that there is no god, heaven, hell, diety, whatever.

It's acknowledge. But your right, there are other variations of agnosticism, I should've worded my other post differently in saying that it was my variation. Of course, I'm one of those agnostics who think there might be something out there, but really, who cares? Once dead, life ends or starts over again...If I'm wrong, oopsy! :eek:

How is that insulting? They are similar, where one discounts the belief in a God entirely, the other believes in that there is no God in the usual religious sense of an all-mighty creator that smites people, but there is something out there making things tick. And both are usually not religious at all.
You have mis-defined agnostic. Rather badly.

An agnostic is one who believes that ultimate truth, such as God, is unknown, and many agnostics believe it is also unknowable.

(Note that my definition may or may not be wonderfully accurate either. But it is much closer.)

i think agnosticism has its good and bad connotations. good because it allows people to admit they may be wrong as humans are not perfect, and neither is religion. yet it also allows people to just be lazy. meh.

christianity tends to... not like other religions. catholicism is actually the worst ive seen, as it it the only form of christianity that says "This and ONLY THIS form of christianity will get you into heaven"
that, and when christianity mentions other religions it is usually in an overly de-glamorized way. (ie. those heathens in poverty stricken nations seems to be a phrase ive heard used)

bias opinion; That is not true, you said Christianity, meaning the whole practice and everything under that category which isn't true. A religion can't NOT like other religions, it's the people who practice that religion and even then, its only a percentage of people who are like that; not all of them.

:upyours: Uuuhhhhhhh.....with ten slots, you couldn't find space for Other, but you could find space for neo-paganism (a commercial venture of the "New Age") and Atheism (not even a frigging religion!) :upyours:

*Tosses a quater on the ground* Go purchase a clue.

You have mis-defined agnostic. Rather badly.

An agnostic is one who believes that ultimate truth, such as God, is unknown, and many agnostics believe it is also unknowable.

Um, no, I didn't define wrong at all. Agnosticism started with Huxley around the late 1800's (around 1870 I think). Since then, there have been a lot of variations to agnosticism. A lot of agnostics these days (at least most I've seen/met/know) believe that there is something out there like a God, but not like the all-mighty influential God from something like the Bible.

But you are right in that many believe it is also unknowable. In fact, that is what Huxley said, that nothing is or can be known about God.

bias opinion; That is not true, you said Christianity, meaning the whole practice and everything under that category which isn't true. A religion can't NOT like other religions, it's the people who practice that religion and even then, its only a percentage of people who are like that; not all of them.
perhaps i worded that quite badly. i meant that the religion attempts to force the idea that there is only one way to achieve salvation and that is through some form of christianity/believing in the christian form of god/jesus/holy spirit (aka the trinity), and that since other religions do not have those same beliefs, they will not allow you to achieve salvation.

I r teh Muslim

Um, no, I didn't define wrong at all. Agnosticism started with Huxley around the late 1800's (around 1870 I think). Since then, there have been a lot of variations to agnosticism. A lot of agnostics these days (at least most I've seen/met/know) believe that there is something out there like a God, but not like the all-mighty influential God from something like the Bible.
Generally, I have heard what you are referring to as 'agnosticism' here referred to as 'deism'.

What I have heard 'agnosticism' used in reference to is something mo like this:
"the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims, particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods or deities, are either unknown or inherently unknowable."
Of course, I don't have sources to back up my claims other than how dictionaries define it and what all the self-professed agnostics I have met(myself included) believe it means. I'm no historian on religion/lack thereof. Do you have any sources?

Actually the fundamentalists are even worse about this than the Catholics. There's not even a comparison.

They both do it, the Catholics and the Fundamentalists. They say that no matter what religion you believe in, you can't 'earn' you way into heaven because being 'balance' or fair, or even more good than bad, is not going to be good enough because you can't enter the presence of God if you have sin in/with you. Thus, if you aren't washed clean of sin entirely, you're not going to be allowed into heaven purely by default alone. Both say that only the blood of Christ can wash you clean, all other sacrifices and/or offerings will not cleanse you. Thus, no other religion CAN save you. Thankfully, they both say it's free to be cleaned, all you have to do is ask Jesus. Mercy and Grace and all that.

perhaps i worded that quite badly. i meant that the religion attempts to force the idea that there is only one way to achieve salvation and that is through some form of christianity/believing in the christian form of god/jesus/holy spirit (aka the trinity), and that since other religions do not have those same beliefs, they will not allow you to achieve salvation.

Now that was worded better; but it really depends on the people who practice some form of Christianity. I mean I'm Christian but I am very open-minded and I believe that this religion is good for me but not good for other people and I respect other's religions and am open-minded about different ways to achieve time in the afterlife (if they believe in one). Actually at one point I was thinking about converting to Buddhism but then I decided not to, but yea, you get the idea.

Generally, I have heard what you are referring to as 'agnosticism' here referred to as 'deism'.

What I have heard 'agnosticism' used in reference to is something mo like this:
"the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims, particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods or deities, are either unknown or inherently unknowable."
Of course, I don't have sources to back up my claims other than how dictionaries define it and what all the self-professed agnostics I have met(myself included) believe it means. I'm no historian on religion/lack thereof. Do you have any sources?

Yes I do:

strong agnosticism (aka hard agnosticism, closed agnosticism, strict agnosticism) — the view that the question of the existence of deities is unknowable by nature or that human beings are ill-equipped to judge the evidence.
weak agnosticism (aka soft agnosticism, open agnosticism, empirical agnosticism) — the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown, but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until more evidence is available.
apathetic agnosticism (aka ignosticism or apatheism) — the view that the question of the existence of deities is meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences.
model agnosticism — the view that philosophical and metaphysical questions are not ultimately verifiable, but that a model of malleable assumption should be built upon rational thought. Note that this branch of agnosticism differs from others in that it does not focus upon the question of a deity's existence.

http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Agnosticism#Variations

I think I might fall under weak agnosticism, because, as I said, I don't really believe in an 'All Mighty' but do believe in the possibility of something out there.

Yes I do:



http://psychcentral.com/psypsych/Agnosticism#Variations

I think I might fall under weak agnosticism
Err, doesn't that say almost exactly what I said? That truth is unknown or unknowable?

Also, that doesn't appear to say anything about acknowledging the existance of a weaker form of God, which was what you said earlier...
EDIT:
Was that actually what you were saying earlier, or did I mishear you?

The source showed the other variations of Agnosticism. You stated the variation of Strong Agnosticism (the original). I was stating my view on Agnosticism (which would fall under weak agnosticism). My view was that though I don't believe in this All Mighty God spoken of in the bible and the like, I don't deny the possibilty that there is something out there, and as under weak agnosticism, it could be known or not...

So basically-Strong Agnosticism (original)-existence of God unknown or unknowable
Weak Agnosticism-the existence of God is not known, but not unknowable

They both do it, the Catholics and the Fundamentalists. They say that no matter what religion you believe in, you can't 'earn' you way into heaven because being 'balance' or fair, or even more good than bad, is not going to be good enough because you can't enter the presence of God if you have sin in/with you. Thus, if you aren't washed clean of sin entirely, you're not going to be allowed into heaven purely by default alone. Both say that only the blood of Christ can wash you clean, all other sacrifices and/or offerings will not cleanse you. Thus, no other religion CAN save you. Thankfully, they both say it's free to be cleaned, all you have to do is ask Jesus. Mercy and Grace and all that.
Are we even taking into consideration the splits between the Catholic church as a whole? My congregation is a hell of a lot more liberal-minded. We do learn that though it certainly helps to be a Christian, it's far more important to be a MORAL NON-BELIEVER than an immoral Christian. We're taught that it takes actions to get into Heaven, not just a cross around your neck or regular Sunday attendance. Even Catholics and Fundamentalists have sin in/with them. Nobody's absoultely free of sin.
Wait....does that make me non-Catholic?

They both do it, the Catholics and the Fundamentalists. They say that no matter what religion you believe in, you can't 'earn' you way into heaven because being 'balance' or fair, or even more good than bad, is not going to be good enough because you can't enter the presence of God if you have sin in/with you. Thus, if you aren't washed clean of sin entirely, you're not going to be allowed into heaven purely by default alone. Both say that only the blood of Christ can wash you clean, all other sacrifices and/or offerings will not cleanse you. Thus, no other religion CAN save you. Thankfully, they both say it's free to be cleaned, all you have to do is ask Jesus. Mercy and Grace and all that.


As a Roman Catholic I would really like for you to show me where it is we say all of that.

I made it easy by putting every thing that was DEAD WRONG in bold. Oh wait, that was the entire post.

Please THINK before you try and generalize my religion and tell me what I believe. I certainly don't believe any of that, I have always been taught that anyone, living a moral life, can get into heaven. AND THATS OVER A DECADE OF CATHOLIC SCHOOL TALKING!

Get a fucking clue.

What about those of us who believe, but don't believe in any one organised religion, but recognise the finer points of most and follow them all? I have a religion but it is non-of-the-above....it is my own.....i believe in a god of some description, but I may find out he is, in fact a she at any given time....I'm not religious except in my own way.

We do learn that though it certainly helps to be a Christian, it's far more important to be a MORAL NON-BELIEVER than an immoral Christian. We're taught that it takes actions to get into Heaven, not just a cross around your neck or regular Sunday attendance. Even Catholics and Fundamentalists have sin in/with them. Nobody's absoultely free of sin.
Wait....does that make me non-Catholic?

Not at all.

This affirmation [that outside the Church there is no salvation] is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of
Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart,
and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it
through the dictates of their conscience--those too may achieve eternal
salvation. (Lumen gentium 16)
Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 847

This isn't meant to be a loophole. It's just that, if everything you've seen about Christians inclines you to believe that Christianity represents the opposite of what it actually does stand for, and you're trying to be a good person in spite of that... yeah.

Where's the Jedi option? Put me down for that.

As a Roman Catholic I would really like for you to show me where it is we say all of that.

I made it easy by putting every thing that was DEAD WRONG in bold. Oh wait, that was the entire post.

Please THINK before you try and generalize my religion and tell me what I believe. I certainly don't believe any of that, I have always been taught that anyone, living a moral life, can get into heaven. AND THATS OVER A DECADE OF CATHOLIC SCHOOL TALKING!

Get a fucking clue.

Woah, what Catholic school did you go to? The one I went to told me that the only to heaven was through accepting Jesus as my savior and all that, and then they later told me the life I was leading would only end with an enternity of pain and all that hellish crap after I brought a book on Druidism to show to a friend...

Woah, what Catholic school did you go to? The one I went to told me that the only to heaven was through accepting Jesus as my savior and all that, and then they later told me the life I was leading would only end with an enternity of pain and all that hellish crap after I brought a book on Druidism to show to a friend...

Same thing I've been told, and not just by Catholics, either. To my knowledge, that is the only way to be saved in the Christian faith.

Buddhism/Agnosticism.

I R Agnostic! But I was Catholic until age ten, but I have a crapload of books on religion, so I'm not ignorant of other religions. Don't know why, but ever since I stopped being Christian, my interest in world religions grew...

i'm a Christian, glad to be. however, having multiple cousins, aunts and uncles that are Jewish, an friend who is Muslim, and another close friend who is Zoarastrian(another religion not listed), I'm pretty knowledgeable on other religions. My 6th grade social studies teacher also drilled other crap into our heads, (not dissing the other religions, just explaining the irrelevance of Shintoism to an 11-year-old boy) about buddhism, hinduism, shintoism, etc. And sadly, I know so much about the Greek gods, I could probably pass for a true follower of their religion.

Where's the Jedi option? Put me down for that.

:) so many people in the British polls stated that their religion was Jedi, it was added to the list, or something to that effect

How is that insulting? They are similar, where one discounts the belief in a God entirely, the other believes in that there is no God in the usual religious sense of an all-mighty creator that smites people, but there is something out there making things tick. And both are usually not religious at all.
You horribly misdefined both atheism and agnosticism.

Agnosticism is the position that the existence or non-existence of a god or gods is unknowable. You can have agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

Atheism is the lack of a god belief. To better phrase this, an atheist is someone who does not believe in a god or gods.

Believing that there is no god(s) is called antitheism. (Don't bother looking it up. It was coined a while back, but it hasn't made it into the dictionary, since most people use atheism as a synonym, even when it isn't.)

Personally, I am an atheist. I would not describe myself as an agnostic, because I feel that it is possible for the existence of a god to be proven, but not disproven. Some days I lean towards antitheism, some days I don't. It all depends how cynical I am at the time.

What religion am I? I didn't realize I could be a religion.

About clumping the christian groups into one, I really hate. It's like saying that all muslims would strap a bomb to themself and blow up the local high school, and we know THAT isn't the truth. Christians are seen as bad because the groups that are so annoying happen to be the loudest. I have never seen in the Bible to hound people and shove things down their throats. We are called to show Christ's love through OUR OWN ACTIONS and yes, we are supposed to tell others of him, but if you say you don't want to hear it, then we can shut up. It specifically says in our new testament that talking to someone just once, or maybe the entire time you know them, won't transform them into a christian. All it does is plant a seed of what we see to be true.