NationStates Jolt Archive

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

I'm moving to Canada when I can move out.

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

There's a difference between hating a country and hating its administration.
So your saying anyone whos anti-bush can leave?

There's a difference between hating a country and hating its administration

Yep.

And perhaps they want to try and fix things, rather than running away from all their problems. (which also happens to cost a lot of money)

Here's an idea.

If they hate the government… maybe they should vote for a different government?

Here's an idea.

If they hate the government… maybe they should vote for a different government?
If only ALL the anti-Americans could vote in the US elections :D

I'm pretty sure he means not anti-Bush people, but real Anti-Americans.

Here's an idea.

If they hate the government… maybe they should vote for a different government?

uh, they do?

Even if they lose, that doesn't mean they can't criticize that government.

Insert staple 'Bush stole the election' comment here.

I'm not talking about Bush-haters; I'm talking about the ones who hate the country (flag-burners and such)

If everyone left every time they disliked the government, then the country wouldn't have anybody left. I love where I live, and I love the system. Government's come and go. You vote against them and wait until the tide changes instead of taking the coward's way out.

-edit- flag burners and such are protesting something happening in the government at that time. A decision or an election or such. There are people who truly hate the country itself, but they have left.

Here's an idea.

If they hate the government… maybe they should vote for a different government?

Maybe they did, but through accident of birth, they live in a country that on a whole disagrees with their beliefs.

I'm pretty sure he means not anti-Bush people, but real Anti-Americans.

The only ones I can really think of are the radical militias, etc, and those people aren't exactly going to listen to reason.

Here's an idea.

If they hate the government… maybe they should vote for a different government?

They probably did, as shown by 49% people against Bush. And now they have every right to criticize Bush, no matter what those that would like to see the First Ammendment elliminated would have you believe.

I'm not talking about Bush-haters; I'm talking about the ones who hate the country (flag-burners and such)

Most flag-burners are just Bush-haters.

I'm not talking about Bush-haters; I'm talking about the ones who hate the country (flag-burners and such)
How does burning a flag automatically make you a hater of a country? Ridiculous. I doubt you will find a single person living in the US who HATES THE COUNTRY. The government, this, that or the other thing, perhaps, but not the country itself.

So say what you really mean. People who don't like the government, you are defining as people who 'hate their country'.

I'm not talking about Bush-haters; I'm talking about the ones who hate the country (flag-burners and such)

Because they have no choice?


let me guess, Republican are we?

The only ones I can really think of are the radical militias, etc, and those people aren't exactly going to listen to reason.
And oddly enough...those are the people who consider themselves to be the TRUE Americans...

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

Why should they leave?

There's a difference between hating a country and hating its administration.
So your saying anyone whos anti-bush can leave?

Yup.

Yep.

And perhaps they want to try and fix things, rather than running away from all their problems. (which also happens to cost a lot of money)

Double Yup.

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.

I'd say burning the flag is more like burning your wife's dress. In which case I would, cause generally speaking the bitch just won't listen to reason.

I'd say burning the flag is more like burning your wife's dress. In which case I would, cause generally speaking the bitch just won't listen to reason.
LMAO

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.
Yeah, whatever there, buddy. Who the hell loves their flag like their wife?

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.
False analogy. The flag is not the country itself, it is a symbol.

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car?

They aren't burning America, they're burning the flag. To use your wife analogy, flag burning is similar to burning your wife's favourite dress to protest about something she does.

EDIT: damn, beaten to it.

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

Because conservatives are already in power.
Libertarian don't want to move because other countries also have govt.

Didn't you hear Conservatives don't like the Govt. They want to starve it of power and give the state more power.

Or did you mean hate the adminstration?

They probably did, as shown by 49% people against Bush. And now they have every right to criticize Bush, no matter what those that would like to see the First Ammendment elliminated would have you believe. What I meant was that people are hardly going to respond to a government they don't favour by leaving the country. I was being ironic or something.

Yeah, whatever there, buddy. Who the hell loves their flag like their wife?

...

I owe you one twisted mental image, Sinuhue.

So then, do you disagree with the American policy in Iraq? We hated their leader so we went after him to take him out. So not only did we do as much as stay in a country that we hated, but we even went into a country that we hated. So then you must abhor the policy that we used to invade Iraq, right?

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.

And you've proven yourself incapable of complex thought by that statement alone.

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?
Um... because if they acted that way in many other countries they would be locked up or killed?

The Americans that hate America are crazy. I admit that my beliefs are a sharp contrast to those that are prevalent in America but I like America because it is powerful and because I am not likely to find a better deal elsewhere.

...

I owe you one twisted mental image, Sinuhue.
Bahahahahahaaa!

Honey...ooh...that's nice....ooh....

Isn't that a kind of desecration in itself?

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.

:rolleyes: This is comedy gold

Only a republican deals in absolutes
Edit- should this be neo-con I don't know the new flashy word?

Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.

Treason... Whatever you say. People should be able to burn flags if they want. I mean, come on, its a friggin' flag. You people that hold in such high regard because it's "sybolic" are being ridiculous. People who burn flags are trying to show extreme displeasure in something their government has done, not trying to incite sucide bombers or something.

Um... because if they acted that way in many other countries they would be locked up or killed?

Yeah we Brits always have that done to us. :rolleyes:

And you've proven yourself incapable of complex thought by that statement alone.

It was an analogy. I'm smarter than you could ever hope to be.

"Why do Anti-Americans live in America"

1) They don't hate everything about it, just a few things

2) They don't have the money to move out

3) They have a job they don't want to lose

You know...selfish human motives...I hate Homo sapiens...Homo stupidus is more like it... *sighs*

It was an analogy. I'm smarter than you could ever hope to be.

I challenge you to a duel...

OF THE MIND!

It was an analogy. I'm smarter than you could ever hope to be.
Methinks he doth protest o'er much...

It was an analogy. I'm smarter than you could ever hope to be.

The analogy that burning a person is the same as burning a piece of cloth? :confused:

How can you say that you're smarter than anyone here, could you not be the dumbest person here? Keep an open mind at least and realize that you will never be the smartest person. There will always be someone smarter than you.

I challenge you to a duel...

OF THE MIND!
No point in a battle of the wits when someone comes unarmed :D

If you loved your wife, would you burn her? Would burn your house or car? Burning a flag is not freedom of speech, it's treason.

Point me to the instance in which someone lit the entire fucking country on fire.

I don't leave because:

1. I'm 15
2. It might be better to try to change it than leaving.
3. I don't know any other language well enough to live in a different country, and I don't want to live in the UK.
4. Moving costs money.
5. I hate the way the government is. How is me leaving going establish a national healthcare system or stop America from sponsoring anti-left fascist militias?

No point in a battle of the wits when someone comes unarmed :D

*makes appropriate cat noise*

The analogy that burning a person is the same as burning a piece of cloth? :confused:

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!

Why? Your comparison falls flat anyway. The flag is not the country.

Yeah we Brits always have that done to us. :rolleyes:
I said many not all. :rolleyes: back atcha.

Certainly not countries with a modicum of democracy. My statement was more aligned with those who would hold the US to be morally eqivilant to North Korea, Communiust China, or any of the tin-pot dictatorships in the middle east/Africa/South America.

Why?
cos it is prretty...

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!
How do you profess your love for your country then? By blindly accepting all faults as good?

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!

But it's still completely different; protestors are not causing any harm to their country they love by burning the flag. They are simply protesting government policy - in their view, they are helping the country they love by protesting.

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!

and never question it?
And obey it regardless?
And worship it like the one true omnipotent entity that it is?

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!


It's called "democracy".

Point me to the instance in which someone lit the entire fucking country on fire.

I don't leave because:

1. I'm 15
2. It might be better to try to change it than leaving.
3. I don't know any other language well enough to live in a different country, and I don't want to live in the UK.
4. Moving costs money.
5. I hate the way the government is. How is me leaving going establish a national healthcare system or stop America from sponsoring anti-left fascist militias?

Don't worry kid you'll smarten up when you get older. Then you'll realize that the left sucks and you don't need national health care if you go to college and get a good job.

I say we burn anti-americans and hippies. It'll solve the fuel crisis in the winter. It's not like they add anything to the economy either.

*reminds herself of her resolution not to respond to half-wits*

*sits quietly at her desk*

But we take what many other countries can only dream of having for granted. Show some respect!

I said many not all. :rolleyes: back atcha.

Certainly not countries with a modicum of democracy. My statement was more aligned with those who would hold the US to be morally eqivilant to North Korea, Communiust China, or any of the tin-pot dictatorships in the middle east/Africa/South America.

and people say Europeans are the most arrogant people

I'm still not over this thing from Mallberta...
I'd say burning the flag is more like burning your wife's dress. In which case I would, cause generally speaking the bitch just won't listen to reason.
Bloody brilliant! (well, a brilliant response to this particular thread)

But we take what many other countries can only dream of having for granted. Show some respect!

Rhetoric doesn't count. Why should we blindly love our country?

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

For some who criticize/dislike the government, there is no other place that offers a real option. Lemme give you an example: The right-wing gun-owner of a Libertarian bent has no other place to go-America's it, the last place on earth where you can own a firearm and practice regularly without being put on a 'watch list' or worse.
During the 1990's, a lot of the criticisms were coming from that side, and it was also called "anti-American"... by the American Left (who're now making the same kind of fuss, since their man's not in the white-house...)
Thus, most of the fussing is really just politics-as-usual. As I've pointed out several times, it seems that the loudest screamers of "Tyranny!!" seem quite supportive of it when their man is in office, or their Party is ascendent.
It's a phenomena that's mutual between Republicans and Democrats, and it's just part of the normal course of things: Few people will allow that their side may be getting too extreme on a given issue if that side seems to be winning on any of the various Cultural, Political, or Media fronts.

I don't think you would find much opposition on the Left to the provisions of the Patriot Act if their man was president, just like you won't find much "Official" Republican opposition with GW Bush in office.
Separating "Power" from "Partisanship" and judging the results neutrally is difficult. IN some cases, it's impossible.

It usually doesn't mean the person or persons in question "Hate" AMERICA, they "Hate" the fact that their party is not the one in power, doing the abusing.

Look I think that flag burning is wrong. It is unpatriotic and there are other ways to make a point. I think that instead of burning flags that protesters should either leave the flag out of their protest or that they should have flags as a means of showing that they are the patriotic group. Burning the flag is anti-American not anti-crappy policy.

It's called "democracy".
Not in this America. We have a Representative Republic. You can take your Democracy and get out! (in all seriousness we aren't a democracy, close though)

We elect the guys who elect our leaders because the Fore Fathers didn't trust us enough to elect our President (stupid Electoral College). The Electors don't even have to follow our votes. They can choose even if that means we aren't being represented.

When was America ever a Democracy?
Old Quote:
" Do have anything for us (forget who it was)?"
" A Republic, Madam, if you can keep it."

Look I think that flag burning is wrong. It is unpatriotic and there are other ways to make a point. I think that instead of burning flags that protesters should either leave the flag out of their protest or that they should have flags as a means of showing that they are the patriotic group. Burning the flag is anti-American not anti-crappy policy.

Do flag-burning protestors harm you personally? Do they burn your flags?

"Anti-american" is often the result of name calling.
We hear "YOU are anti-american" way more often than "I AM anti-american". Isn't it odd?

Most people labelled "anti-americans" that I have met, are just against certain political/military aspects of the US. Or against its current government.

A few years ago I knew a guy who was vehemently anti-Clinton. He used to claim that Clinton had given military blueprints to the Chinese, that the Kosovo war was just a pretext for "doing military stuff", and that Clinton was a disgusting wimp. Well, he wasn't called "anti-american", just "anti-Clinton". But if you say similar things about Bush & Co, you are quickly labelled "anti-american" nowadays.

As for the real anti-americans (they REAL ones, not the lamers), I guess they're a very small minority. Maybe those who genuinly and permanently dislike the US will move to other countries. And those who want the US's demise or destruction (McVeigh's bunch) could probably be counted in the 100s, not in the 1000s.

BTW, if you're anti-american, you just don't vote at the elections. Because you're also anti-Democrat and anti-Republican, by definition.
A guy who votes for either party cannot claim to be (or be called) anti-american. It wouldn't make any sense.

Not in this America. We have a Representative Republic. You can take your Democracy and get out! (in all seriousness we aren't a democracy, close though)

We elect the guys who elect our leaders because the Fore Fathers didn't trust us enough to elect our President (stupid Electoral College). The Electors don't even have to follow our votes. They can choose even if that means we aren't being represented.


Fine! I shall take my democracy and go home!

I knew you guys were a republic, but I'm entirely too lazy to say that and besides, "It's called democracy" sounds better than "It's called Representative Republic". It's all about the public image, man. Interesting post though, I like.

But there are people who don't vote and still criticize the country...

Don't worry kid you'll smarten up when you get older. Then you'll realize that the left sucks and you don't need national health care if you go to college and get a good job.

I say we burn anti-americans and hippies. It'll solve the fuel crisis in the winter. It's not like they add anything to the economy either.

Or you'll become more mature and won't resort to asinine flaming.

But there are people who don't vote and still criticize the country...

freedom of speech ;)

:headbang: OK. Let's get this straightened out. I compared it as something you love to something that you should love. If you live in our country, you should love it!
Should?

Should?

Why, oh why, should I love a piece of land that just happens to be between two imaginary lines on a map? Why should I blindly have to follow the ruling party where I happen to have been born? Why should I listen to you?

But there are people who don't vote and still criticize the country...

So? Do we lose our freedom of speech if we don't vote?

But there are people who don't vote and still criticize the country...

Generally that's because they don't think either major party will fix the policy they're criticizing, and so they protest as a way to bring awareness of that particular issue.

Don't worry kid you'll smarten up when you get older. Then you'll realize that the left sucks and you don't need national health care if you go to college and get a good job.

I say we burn anti-americans and hippies. It'll solve the fuel crisis in the winter. It's not like they add anything to the economy either.

*gets anti troll puppet weapon*

Ok who are you?

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?
I think the current American government is pretty pathetic, and I am ashamed of the majority of the "leaders" of my country. But I love my country, I'm proud to be American, and I'm no coward...I'm not about to turn tail and run just because things have gotten ugly. I'm going to stay here, work for change, and help restore the honor that America seems to be losing day by day.

and people say Europeans are the most arrogant people
:confused:

Why would it be arrogant to suggest that Democratic countries (including places like, oh, England, Canada, most Continental European countries, etc.) are better than places where dissidents tend to end up dead?

If the protesters said "The US is no better than Sweden!" you might have a valid point, but since they tend to say "The US is no better than North Korea!" (or some such nonsense) my point stands.

Well I do not like people who attack my country in that way. If there is something offensive about America, it is the people's rights to make fun of it in almost any way but the serious display of hatred towards our country shown in flag burning is something that only true enemies of the country should do not stupid hippies in need of a good beating.

But we take what many other countries can only dream of having for granted. Show some respect!
Cripes, now I want to come to the US just to burn a flag...

Certainly not countries with a modicum of democracy. My statement was more aligned with those who would hold the US to be morally eqivilant to North Korea, Communiust China, or any of the tin-pot dictatorships in the middle east/Africa/South America.

Um...what South American dictatorships are you referring to, by the way?

Careful with "if...then" sentences, as they don't often work the other way around.

IF "anti-american" THEN ==> "do not vote"

BUT

IF "do not vote" ==> THEN "liberty of expression"

Or put more simply, "Anti-americans have nothing to do with voting or choosing the American government, beause they shouldn't care. So they shouldn't (and won't) vote. But generally, most persons who do not vote, choose that option because they're free."

Self-proclaimed anti-americans who vote are either morons or lunatics.

People that you call "anti-americans" because they don't agree with your political views... but who take the time to vote... are good citizens.

If only ALL the anti-Americans could vote in the US elections :D

It only counts if it is from the electorial colleges for presidential elections, and all the mayors, and such are very similar so who cares anyway.

Why do anti americans live in america? Well, some of us are trying to get out. I for one, am waiting until I have enough money to move to Canada or Australia. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in this bloody american prison (okay, so it's a university, but it feels like a prison. And to think I left Canada to come back for a scholarship?...) I am ashamed of what this country's become and I want nothing further to do with it. But until I can come up with the funds, I can only keep singing O canada and thinking of a brighter future where I can be truly free.

:confused:

Why would it be arrogant to suggest that Democratic countries (including places like, oh, England, Canada, most Continental European countries, etc.) are better than places where dissidents tend to end up dead?

If the protesters said "The US is no better than Sweden!" you might have a valid point, but since they tend to say "The US is no better than North Korea!" (or some such nonsense) my point stands.

Though I might agree with what your trying to say your just sounding pretty stuck up and yet all I hear from Americans is that we are arrogant and stuck up.

Well I do not like people who attack my country in that way. If there is something offensive about America, it is the people's rights to make fun of it in almost any way but the serious display of hatred towards our country shown in flag burning is something that only true enemies of the country should do not stupid hippies in need of a good beating.

So it's the people's rights to display their distaste for America in any way they want so long as you approve?

Um...what South American dictatorships are you referring to, by the way?
LOL

There is currently NO dictatorship in south america. Some democracies are beginning to smell like sour milk, but they're still democracies.

Now if you look back to the 1950s-1980s (and even a little bit in the 1990s), you'll find a lot of dictatures. Including the ones that were installed as "stability bringers", to bar socialists and communists from America's backyard.

But we take what many other countries can only dream of having for granted. Show some respect!

for example?

I think the current American government is pretty pathetic, and I am ashamed of the majority of the "leaders" of my country. But I love my country, I'm proud to be American, and I'm no coward...I'm not about to turn tail and run just because things have gotten ugly. I'm going to stay here, work for change, and help restore the honor that America seems to be losing day by day.

See, this is the type of people that America should have. You can not like the government but still love the country. Right on man!

See, this is the type of people that America should have. You can not like the government but still love the country. Right on man!

but in your first post you said

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

Now I'm really confused

LOL

There is currently NO dictatorship in south america. Some democracies are beginning to smell like sour milk, but they're still democracies.


That's my point. Sheesh people...update your stereotypes already! :D

See, this is the type of people that America should have. You can not like the government but still love the country. Right on man!
You mean, woman.

And did you know she like a good flag burning every now and again?

*sorry Bottle...I just had to...

but in your first post you said



Now I'm really confused


I think it is called a hypocrite when some one contradicts themselves.

Though I might agree with what your trying to say your just sounding pretty stuck up and yet all I hear from Americans is that we are arrogant and stuck up.
You haven't read that from ME... :mad: (ok, maybe I said it about the French, but they don't count... ;) )

I think it is called a hypocrite when some one contradicts themselves.
;)
There's always one who has to point it out :D

You haven't read that from ME... :mad: (ok, maybe I said it about the French, but they don't count... ;) )

not specifically you no, just generally

You haven't read that from ME... :mad: (ok, maybe I said it about the French, but they don't count... ;) )

Why don't the French count? What do you have against them?

In a democracy everyone counts

In America the rich, and influencial counts, the poor has to pick one (for mayor else they dont count)

I think it's safe to say that America<>a democracy

LOL

There is currently NO dictatorship in south america. Some democracies are beginning to smell like sour milk, but they're still democracies.

Now if you look back to the 1950s-1980s (and even a little bit in the 1990s), you'll find a lot of dictatures. Including the ones that were installed as "stability bringers", to bar socialists and communists from America's backyard.
Who says dictators can't be elected? :rolleyes:

You know what I meant :p

Why don't the French count? What do you have against them?
<snip>
Nothing, but even THEY admit they are arrogant... :D

;)
There's always one who has to point it out :D

I know. Now as a payment, I request three cookies, not one, not two, not three, but three. (Wow I am a hypocrite :eek: )

I know. Now as a payment, I request three cookies, not one, not two, not three, but three. (Wow I am a hypocrite :eek: )

I'll think about it

Ok then Offers cookie, I only have one need to go to the shops

How does burning a flag automatically make you a hater of a country? Ridiculous. I doubt you will find a single person living in the US who HATES THE COUNTRY. The government, this, that or the other thing, perhaps, but not the country itself.

So say what you really mean. People who don't like the government, you are defining as people who 'hate their country'.
Nope, my best friend has a suitemate who genuenly hates this country. He's all the time talking about "going back to Kenya" or "when I was in Kenya" or... you get the idea. Almost every day we have to listen to some way or another that American culture and society is inferior to Kenya

<snip>
Thus, most of the fussing is really just politics-as-usual. As I've pointed out several times, it seems that the loudest screamers of "Tyranny!!" seem quite supportive of it when their man is in office, or their Party is ascendent.
It's a phenomena that's mutual between Republicans and Democrats, and it's just part of the normal course of things

<snip>

It usually doesn't mean the person or persons in question "Hate" AMERICA, they "Hate" the fact that their party is not the one in power, doing the abusing.

Very true. It's important to get perspective on the primary cause of the hysterical liberal vs. republican argument.

And I respect Bottle's positive way of expressing her disagreements with the current administration:

"I think the current American government is pretty pathetic, and I am ashamed of the majority of the "leaders" of my country. But I love my country, I'm proud to be American, and I'm no coward...I'm not about to turn tail and run just because things have gotten ugly. I'm going to stay here, work for change, and help restore the honor that America seems to be losing day by day."

Nope, my best friend has a suitemate who genuenly hates this country. He's all the time talking about "going back to Kenya" or "when I was in Kenya" or... you get the idea. Almost every day we have to listen to some way or another that American culture and society is inferior to Kenya

"grass is always greener on the otherside"

Nope, my best friend has a suitemate who genuenly hates this country. He's all the time talking about "going back to Kenya" or "when I was in Kenya" or... you get the idea. Almost every day we have to listen to some way or another that American culture and society is inferior to Kenya

Didnt you hear the song come to kenya?

They do have lions, and tigers. America has to import them.

"grass is always greener on the otherside"

Maybe that is the point of the wars. To make the grass as equal or less then equal on the other side.

Who says dictators can't be elected? :rolleyes:

You know what I meant :p
Nope, I don't. Who is a South American dictator?

Nope, my best friend has a suitemate who genuenly hates this country. He's all the time talking about "going back to Kenya" or "when I was in Kenya" or... you get the idea. Almost every day we have to listen to some way or another that American culture and society is inferior to Kenya
Ah. I have in-laws who do this. It is probably the most irritating habit ever. However, the very fact that they choose to stay and NOT go home is proof positive that they don't hate it that much...now if we could just get them to bitch to someone who gives a shit?

If everyone left every time they disliked the government, then the country wouldn't have anybody left. I love where I live, and I love the system. Government's come and go. You vote against them and wait until the tide changes instead of taking the coward's way out.

-edit- flag burners and such are protesting something happening in the government at that time. A decision or an election or such. There are people who truly hate the country itself, but they have left.
AT LAST, a voice of sanity! Thank you! :)

Nope, I don't. Who is a South American dictator?
Are there or are there not still places in South & Central America where one can get dissapeared/tortured for speaking out against the Government? That is all I was saying.

As onerous as I find the Patriot Act, it doesn't do that.

Are there or are there not still places in South & Central America where one can get dissapeared/tortured for speaking out against the Government? That is all I was saying.

As onerous as I find the Patriot Act, it doesn't do that.
I'm going to have to be picky here, just in case people just assume that you in fact are correct in saying that South America stills has dictatorships. And as for Central America...the only one I can think of is Cuba.

Can you get disappeared or tortured in Latin America for speaking out against the Government? Not as a matter of government policy...there might be some cases, but I'd take them on a case by case basis rather than saying it is systematic, as it was during the years of the dictatorships. In fact, I'd challenge you to find me an example of state-sponsored torture/disappearance in Latin America. I'm not ruling out the possibility...just saying, you can't use the old labels there anymore. A lot has changed. (even though so much hasn't)

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

Being anti-government is not the same as being anti-American. There is a profound difference!

Why do anti americans live in america? Well, some of us are trying to get out. I for one, am waiting until I have enough money to move to Canada or Australia. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in this bloody american prison (okay, so it's a university, but it feels like a prison. And to think I left Canada to come back for a scholarship?...) I am ashamed of what this country's become and I want nothing further to do with it. But until I can come up with the funds, I can only keep singing O canada and thinking of a brighter future where I can be truly free.
I'm beginning to believe that, for some people, going to college makes them less intelligent. Kindly explain in what way you are not now "truly free?"

Maybe they did, but through accident of birth, they live in a country that on a whole disagrees with their beliefs.

...there's always North Korea, Cuba, Sweden, etc... hehe

I'm beginning to believe that, for some people, going to college makes them less intelligent. Kindly explain in what way you are not now "truly free?"

yeah, social science classes pretty much shit on conservative ideals... and they love socialism.

If yours is an impressionable mind and you go take a bunch of lib arts classes at a liberal school, you're going to come out hating the rich and loving the taxes and re-distribution of wealth of socialism.

Well if I had the choice of any country it wouldn't be America, thas all

yeah, social science classes pretty much shit on conservative ideals... and they love socialism.

If yours is an impressionable mind and you go take a bunch of lib arts classes at a liberal school, you're going to come out hating the rich and loving the taxes and re-distribution of wealth of socialism.
Don't make blanket statements like that. All of my profs in my 'liberal arts classes at my liberal school' (what the heck are liberal arts classes, anyway?) were communist-hating conservatives.

Don't make blanket statements like that. All of my profs in my 'liberal arts classes at my liberal school' (what the heck are liberal arts classes, anyway?) were communist-hating conservatives.

mine weren't, and yours weren't either!

hehe

Being anti-government is not the same as being anti-American. There is a profound difference!
I agree, but surely you realize that there are mechanisms in place for changing the government in the US, yes? I have great difficulty comprehending why someone who dislikes a particular administration would leave rather than work to make things better, however they choose to define that phrase. Leaving, IMHO, is the ultimate anti-American statement and displays a total lack of comprehension, patience, perseverance and patriotism.

mine weren't, and yours weren't either!

hehe
?

mine weren't

Maybe now you understand the reasons we don't make blanket statements.

Maybe now you understand the reasons we don't make blanket statements.
Except he went back and changed it. Bumhead Frangland! :D

Wow, through this whole thread I've noticed that a lot of people saying a lot of things about promoting violence against nonviolent protesting groups (ex. hippies, flag burners). Would any of these people like to explain why they hate nonviolent protesting groups so much? (And I'm not asking for you to say "because they hate our country." That's obviously not the reason.)

You don't have any influence on what country you will be born in, so why love or hate your country? I am European but I can honestly say that I dislike the American culture and I hate the political system in the US. How could a "choice" between TWO "different" partys be called democracy?

[QUOTE=Syniks]:confused:

If the protesters said "The US is no better than Sweden!" you might have a valid pointQUOTE]

Okey, I'm a protester, the US is no better than Sweden. I am absolutely tired of American bragging about their country without having a clue of how the rest of the world is. You are always going on about all the opportunities you are said to have that are so uniqe. What's your opportunities when you are raised by parents who don't give a damn about you? What if you never get motivated by your teachers? What if you don't have money for college? What if?

Why not create opportunities instead of pretending to be perfect?

I agree, but surely you realize that there are mechanisms in place for changing the government in the US, yes? I have great difficulty comprehending why someone who dislikes a particular administration would leave rather than work to make things better, however they choose to define that phrase. Leaving, IMHO, is the ultimate anti-American statement and displays a total lack of comprehension, patience, perseverance and patriotism.

I could understand people leaving if it looked like no end in sight. However if enough of us get together and try to effect real change, then that would be my pick. I'm not going any where. I'd rather stay and fight for what the founding fathers wanted, and remove the neo-cons from any type of power. Don't give up, take it back! That should be the motto.

Leaving, IMHO, is the ultimate anti-American statement and displays a total lack of comprehension, patience, perseverance and patriotism.

Even if it was to live in a tropical paradise? :p

I could understand people leaving if it looked like no end in sight. However if enough of us get together and try to effect real change, then that would be my pick. I'm not going any where. I'd rather stay and fight for what the founding fathers wanted, and remove the neo-cons from any type of power. Don't give up, take it back! That should be the motto.
That, at least, is a mature approach.

I'm moving to Canada when I can move out.

More of you?!
GO TO FRANCE!
We have enough hippies up here thank you

Even if it was to live in a tropical paradise? :p

Ok, YOU make a very vaild point..lol :D

I agree with you here.
I agree, but surely you realize that there are mechanisms in place for changing the government in the US, yes? I have great difficulty comprehending why someone who dislikes a particular administration would leave rather than work to make things better, however they choose to define that phrase.


However, I think you go too far here.

Leaving. . . displays a total lack of comprehension, patience, perseverance and patriotism.

At some point people may realize that their philosophical differences with this country are so great that they will never be able to reconcile their own beliefs in what is right with the way the government behaves. If they have made an honest, diligent effort to enact change but realize that they are not in line with what the government believes nor with what the majority believes, they may realize they fit better with another country/government/society.

The average American citizen has made no "till death do us part" vow to the US. S/hey is free to reject the US if s/he feels s/he would be better served (and would better serve his/her government) by denouncing his/her US citizenship and taking up citizenship in another country.

I will give you this much; it doesn't seem to be a decision one should enter lightly, without thought or consideration of the ramifications.

I notice people yell 'Anti-American, Anti-American' but yet they don't listen to their opinions. A true democracy and truly great country involved hearing ALL PEOPLE'S OPINIONS!!!!! And FYI I AM ANTI-AMERICAN! I am against right-wingers, chruch and state unions, and two-party systems, ie. America. My defense: I'll gladly listen to rational right-wingers, the chruch is NOT part of the government and is NOT to influence any gov't policy and with 2-parties, there can only be us and them. (Well not me, I'm Canadian :cool: ) Finally : FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS FOR ALL PEOPLE, NOT JUST FOR THE VOTERS AND THE STATUS QUO.

This is my opinion, don't care if you care cause I do this moronic thing called thinking and forming my own opinions.

George Carlin will agree with me.

Even if it was to live in a tropical paradise? :p
No. That would be leavng for something, not just because they're not playing the game by your rules and so you want to take your marbles and find a new home.

I notice people yell 'Anti-American, Anti-American' but yet they don't listen to their opinions. A true democracy and truly great country involved hearing ALL PEOPLE'S OPINIONS!!!!! And FYI I AM ANTI-AMERICAN! I am against right-wingers, chruch and state unions, and two-party systems, ie. America. My defense: I'll gladly listen to rational right-wingers, the chruch is NOT part of the government and is NOT to influence any gov't policy and with 2-parties, there can only be us and them. (Well not me, I'm Canadian :cool: ) Finally : FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS FOR ALL PEOPLE, NOT JUST FOR THE VOTERS AND THE STATUS QUO.

This is my opinion, don't care if you care cause I do this moronic thing called thinking and forming my own opinions.

George Carlin will agree with me.
Seems to me as if you refute your own argument simply by being able to post what you just did. All you've done to this point is confuse the issue.

Sounds to me as if you're just pissed off because everyone isn't playing by the rules you'd like them to play by, which is a very immature approach.

Prove me wrong ... I'm listening. :)

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

Heh, just the opposite. I don't live in the US, but I'm so pro-American I'm moving there ASAP.

I notice people yell 'Anti-American, Anti-American' but yet they don't listen to their opinions. A true democracy and truly great country involved hearing ALL PEOPLE'S OPINIONS!!!!! And FYI I AM ANTI-AMERICAN! I am against right-wingers, chruch and state unions, and two-party systems, ie. America. My defense: I'll gladly listen to rational right-wingers, the chruch is NOT part of the government and is NOT to influence any gov't policy and with 2-parties, there can only be us and them. (Well not me, I'm Canadian :cool: ) Finally : FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS FOR ALL PEOPLE, NOT JUST FOR THE VOTERS AND THE STATUS QUO.

This is my opinion, don't care if you care cause I do this moronic thing called thinking and forming my own opinions.

George Carlin will agree with me.


I thought I finally was going to hear an American expressing the same opinions as myself. And you're Canadian. :) But well, I'm not American either. And I have always thought that Canadian seem a lot more nice, is that true?

I could understand people leaving if it looked like no end in sight. However if enough of us get together and try to effect real change, then that would be my pick. I'm not going any where. I'd rather stay and fight for what the founding fathers wanted, and remove the neo-cons from any type of power. Don't give up, take it back! That should be the motto.

But why? Surely there are other countries out there that very closely resemble your own philosophy. Go there, instead of spending years in a (probably futile) struggle to change the political culture of the US.

Doesn't it make more sense for people to just pick up and leave instead of fighting endlessly?

Seems to me as if you refute your own argument simply by being able to post what you just did. All you've done to this point is confuse the issue.

Sounds to me as if you're just pissed off because everyone isn't playing by the rules you'd like them to play by, which is a very immature approach.

Prove me wrong ... I'm listening. :)

Nice, cut me up, thank you, see, I can take it. And no I'm not trying to refute my own opinion, just putting as much of MY opinion on as possible. I am saying that everyone, dissidents, patriots, Americans, even French and Middle Eastern Americans, has a right to speak their opinion. Love and Peace :fluffle:

At some point people may realize that their philosophical differences with this country are so great that they will never be able to reconcile their own beliefs in what is right with the way the government behaves. If they have made an honest, diligent effort to enact change but realize that they are not in line with what the government believes nor with what the majority believes, they may realize they fit better with another country/government/society.

The average American citizen has made no "till death do us part" vow to the US. S/hey is free to reject the US if s/he feels s/he would be better served (and would better serve his/her government) by denouncing his/her US citizenship and taking up citizenship in another country.

I will give you this much; it doesn't seem to be a decision one should enter lightly, without thought or consideration of the ramifications.
How long did women work to get the vote? How long did it take to pass prohibition ... and how long to repeal it?

Things don't fit nicely into the 60 minutes ( minus commercials ) time limit for prime time programming, or into the time schedule of any individual or group, or even necessarily into an idividual's lifetime. In the real world, change is often glacial. In a democracy, you have to change people's opinions and that is often a difficult task. If you don't think the Country is worth "saving," then by all means leave, but I rather doubt that you'll be any happier anywhere else.

Nice, cut me up, thank you, see, I can take it. And no I'm not trying to refute my own opinion, just putting as much of MY opinion on as possible. I am saying that everyone, dissidents, patriots, Americans, even French and Middle Eastern Americans, has a right to speak their opinion. Love and Peace :fluffle:
So which of those groups doesn't have "a right to speak their opinion," pray tell?

But why? Surely there are other countries out there that very closely resemble your own philosophy. Go there, instead of spending years in a (probably futile) struggle to change the political culture of the US.

Doesn't it make more sense for people to just pick up and leave instead of fighting endlessly?
Only if you like taking the easy way out, leaving your family and friends, leaving the Country of your birth, leaving all you've ever known ... just to make a politicial point that few will even be aware of.

So which of those groups doesn't have "a right to speak their opinion," pray tell?

Oh c'mon Forrest, they fluffled you.. what more do you want? LOL :p

I thought I finally was going to hear an American expressing the same opinions as myself. And you're Canadian. :) But well, I'm not American either. And I have always thought that Canadian seem a lot more nice, is that true?
Could be true my friend, but that is also a stereotype, so keep that in mind. And hey I really don't care if you're American, Iraqi, even from Anoriz, coolest country ever,(Bad joke I know) you're opinion matters don't let anyone tell you different. (Idealist i know but it is true.)

Oh c'mon Forrest, they fluffled you.. what more do you want? LOL :p

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Oh, a sense of humor you say!

So which of those groups doesn't have "a right to speak their opinion," pray tell?
I never said they didn't, but certain people, individual not groups hopefully, believe certain groups should not speak.

I keep talking myself out of posting here because typically, people say what I want to say before I have a chance to, but this particular thread has provided me with fifteen minutes of entertainment I feel I have to repay.

Don't worry kid you'll smarten up when you get older. Then you'll realize that the left sucks and you don't need national health care if you go to college and get a good job.

I say we burn anti-americans and hippies. It'll solve the fuel crisis in the winter. It's not like they add anything to the economy either.

Goodness gracious - I didn't realize that the social darwinists weren't extinct. It'd be pretty entertaining to watch the lowest common denominator disappear from this country, with the subsequent disappearing of all fundamental people-provided services. That statement was just about as silly as the liberal college-age whiners who are so vehemently against Southern culture.

But why? Surely there are other countries out there that very closely resemble your own philosophy. Go there, instead of spending years in a (probably futile) struggle to change the political culture of the US.

Doesn't it make more sense for people to just pick up and leave instead of fighting endlessly?

I think a lot of people are like me: I happen to like a lot (read: most things) about America, and I also happen to believe that I have some limited ability to change the things I don't like. America's history is proof enough that people can affect a change on some level, even if it takes years for the change to be anything more than superficial.

I never said they didn't, but certain people, individual not groups hopefully, believe certain groups should not speak.
So? There are people who believe that the earth is flat, but that doesn't stop it from being round.

So? There are people who believe that the earth is flat, but that doesn't stop it from being round.
They are still entitled to their opinions. Despite whether we believe it or not, we cannot say 'You opinion is dumb, you can't talk anymore.' Not in any country worth living in. This applies to all things.

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

Because that would be dumb. The system is democratic so the smartest thing for a dissenter to do is stay and gather support for a change of government. The dumbest thing would be to leave and thereby lower the chances of things ever changing for the better.

this is scary !

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/nyregion/22islamic.html?pagewanted=print

Queens Muslim Group Says It Opposes Violence, and America
By ANDREA ELLIOTT
The young Muslim men, with beards and bullhorns, work the streets of Jackson Heights on the weekends. They surface at parades and protests around the city, loudly declaring America the enemy and advocating for an Islamic state. Several weeks ago, they publicly tore up an American flag as payback for the reported desecration of the Koran at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Their own videos of violence against Muslims, one with the title "Muslim Massacres," have recently appeared on Queens Public Television.

In the annals of New York City's political outspokenness and fringe-group culture, the Islamic Thinkers Society may seem unremarkable at first glance. But after 9/11, in the city most damaged and unsettled by the terrorist attacks, the emergence of this young, however limited, Muslim-American voice is strikingly bold. In its fliers and on its Web site, the group describes itself as an "intellectual and political nonviolent organization," but it bears a strong resemblance to Islamist movements in England that try to unite Muslims by inciting anger.

"Wake up and realize that the line has been drawn between the camp of Emaan and the camp of Kufr and there is no middle ground as of right now," reads a glossy publication by the group that is titled "Islamic Revival." In Arabic, Emaan can be translated to mean "faith" and Kufr, "disbelief."

"We are not afraid to speak against the unjust rulers of Muslim world and replace them," the statement reads. "To the Muslim scholars for dollar$: Speak good or remain silent!"

The group's spokesman, Ariful Islam, said he was a 21-year-old student at La Guardia Community College who came to Queens from Bangladesh when he was 8. He said the group's purpose was promoting unity among Muslims and that the F.B.I. had been monitoring it for two years. The F.B.I. would not comment.

"What they're worried about is, are we recruiting for jihad," Mr. Islam said. "Through our past couple of years we have never recruited anyone to go to a foreign land. We have always made that clear through our activities. We have always stressed nonviolent means. However, that does not mean that we don't address American foreign policy, and we strongly disagree with their policies."

After years of quietly ignoring the group, the city's Muslim leaders began to speak out against it this week after reports of the flag desecration. Imams, activists and other leaders worry that the group is misrepresenting Islam, sending a negative message to Muslim youths and damaging a hard-earned, fragile trust between the Muslim community and those in law enforcement.

"They do not sound like thinkers," said Mohammad Tariq Sherwani, the imam of the Muslim Center of New York, who said the group has frequented his Flushing mosque, brandishing fliers with bloody photographs from Iraq and Palestine. "We, as leaders, have to help them think. Islam does not believe in any extremism. Islam is not fanaticism. Islam believes in balance."

"These are bad times for Muslims, he added. "We don't want to increase the problem."

For such a public group, much about it remains a mystery. As a policy, its members do not give interviews and members' names are not listed on the group's Web site, www.IslamicThinkers.com. In recent days, the site has been devoted to the inquiries of several newspaper reporters, asserting that they intended to paint the group as militant extremists, with a motive to "demoralize Islam."

Yesterday evening, Mr. Islam made an exception and granted an interview, in which he said that the group, which has less than a dozen members, opposed participation in the American political system, and would only approve of an Islamic leader "guided by the Koran."

He dismissed criticism of the group by the city's Muslim leaders as fear of a "backlash."

"We have nothing to hide," he said. "We are always in the public."

"We're all just regular kids in New York City," he added. "We grew up here."

Known in Queens simply as the Thinkers, the group carefully videotapes its interactions with the public, as well as its own activities.

A video of the group's desecration of the flag was posted on its Web site recently, as well as videos of several violent encounters between some of the members and a woman in Jackson Heights, who reportedly stomped on one of the group's posters before she was knocked - the group says unintentionally - to the ground.

Most often, the group appears on the corner of 37th Avenue and 74th Street in Jackson Heights, amid a row of Islamic book vendors. There, the Thinkers show videos on television monitors depicting violence against Muslims, and hand out fliers with photographs of war-ravaged babies.

A crowd often forms as the group's members, sometimes dressed in dark robes, loudly criticize American policy through a megaphone.

"They show Americans, like, hitting the other people," said Al-amin Dhali, 11, on Sunday afternoon as he helped his father sell spinach and radishes from a cart on 74th Street.

Some members of the group have been active in New York City since 1986, said Mr. Sherwani, who first knew the group as Hizb-e-therik.

"The names and faces change," said Mr. Sherwani. "The leaders are there."

In recent years, the group took on the same name as an extremist group in England, Al-Muhajiroun, that follows Omar Bakri Muhammed, a controversial sheik, said several Muslim community leaders, one of whom who provided fliers the group once distributed under that name.

After 9/11, the New York group broke up and several of its former members re-emerged two years ago as the Islamic Thinkers Society. "Our funding comes from our pockets," Mr. Islam said.

At the booth in Queens, and in protests around the city, it is usually the same small group of men who gather. They mostly comprise second-generation Bangladeshi and Pakastani immigrants, and some converts, who were raised in Queens and are now in their 20's.

"They're going to end up getting themselves in a lot of trouble," said Debbie Almontaser, a Muslim activist in Brooklyn.

Aside from their weekend routine in Jackson Heights, the Thinkers have staged at least five public protests this year. They are not subtle.

When a female professor from Virginia Commonwealth University broke with tradition to lead a Friday prayer for Muslims in March, the Thinkers gathered outside the Morningside Heights church where the event took place and accused the organizers of being a "band of prostitutes."

The group also expressed an intense interest in the case of Tashnuba Hayder, the 16-year-old girl from Queens who was detained in May after the F.B.I. initially identified her as a potential suicide bomber; she was forced to leave the country on an immigration violation.

Members of the group surrounded the girl's family after Tashnuba was detained, accompanying them to the detention center for visits with their daughter, said Adem Carroll, a relief coordinator at the Islamic Circle of North America in Jamaica.

Wissam Nasr, the executive director of the Council on American Islamic Relations in New York, is drafting a petition he hopes will be signed by the city's imams and others who are likely to sway the group to change its message and style of protest, he said.

"On their Web site they say they are not connected to groups abroad but the exact same things are going on in England," said Mr. Nasr. "Where are they getting these ideas from?"

Mr. Nasr said he has noticed the group's presence in Queens for at least five years and became annoyed with them at the Muslim Day Parade last summer, when he was trying to register people to vote.

"Every time I did that these guys would jump in and say, 'Did you know that voting is haram?' " he said. Haram, in Arabic, means forbidden.

"It's all anti-Western stuff," he said. "It's all deriding the West."

One of the younger members spoke briefly to a reporter several months ago in Jamaica, Queens. An Algerian immigrant in his 20's who did not give his name, the man said he had dreamed of being a New York City firefighter until 9/11.

"A Muslim fireman? Good luck with that," he said. "I don't think this country is very friendly to Muslims."

The group produced two hourlong videos that were randomly selected for public access viewing by Queens Public Television. The videos, "Muslim Massacres" and "Life in Palestine" were each aired twice in May on several cable television channels. A woman complained that the videos were "horrible and disgusting," said Nancy Littlefield, the executive director of Queens Public Television. The videos apparently showed real footage from Iraq and Palestine of people who had been shot, children suffering from wounds and families who had been displaced, she said.

Being anti-government is not the same as being anti-American. There is a profound difference!

For the last time! I'm not talking about anti-Republicans or anti-Democrats. I'm talking about the ones who, no matter who is in office, hates what they do. The government is what makes it America, not the parties.

For the last time! I'm not talking about anti-Republicans or anti-Democrats. I'm talking about the ones who, no matter who is in office, hates what they do. The government is what makes it America, not the parties.

BUt the parties become the Govt. Example Bush is in power and made the Govt very republican. He is also trying to push activist republican judges in power of courts to court his views.

For the last time! I'm not talking about anti-Republicans or anti-Democrats. I'm talking about the ones who, no matter who is in office, hates what they do. The government is what makes it America, not the parties.

Well slick; you have a problem with youyr premise. Our freedom gives us the right to not be happy with anybody in office.

Our freedom gives us (if we were so inclined) to hate America becuase it's America, and still live in America and not go to jail, unless you conspired against people, attacked people or commited crimes.

I'm moving to Canada when I can move out.

Wanna switch?

this is probably a little late but oh well...

The Flag is the nation, only the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence represent a more tangible manifestation of the United States.

For those who feel that their rights or believes have been so infringed upon that they need to burn the flag in protest need to realize that they are spiting upon everything America stands for. They are burning the honorable sacrifices of the thousands who have died in its service or have be beaten in their pursuit for equality.

How many flag burners ever attempted to make the system better, who many have ran for political office? I doubt many at all.

Everyday men and women are dying for the Flag and the country it represents, and they are much better people then those who burn the flag.

See? This guy gets it about the flag!

I hate the very idea of government. There's nowhere for me to go. :(

this is probably a little late but oh well...

The Flag is the nation, only the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence represent a more tangible manifestation of the United States.

No the Flag is a piece of cloth. The Flag code says if it starts being dirty, burning it is allowed.
I'm sorry, you don't think it was dirty, but they did.

Yuo see, my America ios more than piece of flag. My America is more than a constitution or declaration. Those are just memories.
My America exist within us all, it is the freedom and responsibility to do the right thing.
When/If America the country ever falls, America the ideal won't, because my America is stronger than that.

For those who feel that their rights or believes have been so infringed upon that they need to burn the flag in protest need to realize that they are spiting upon everything America stands for.
They are burning the honorable sacrifices of the thousands who have died in its service or have be beaten in their pursuit for equality.

No, to punish people for freedom is spitting upon everything America stand for.
Those soldiers fought so the fredom to burn a flag is possible. You dishonor their deaths but denying that.

How many flag burners ever attempted to make the system better, who many have ran for political office? I doubt many at all.

Everyday men and women are dying for the Flag and the country it represents, and they are much better people then those who burn the flag.
You wouldn't vote for a flag burner so that is a self-full fulling prophecy.

I never understood it. There are these people that always hate the government. Well why don't they just go to a different country?

I wish to God they would.

I hate the very idea of government. There's nowhere for me to go. :(

Try Somalia. Or go to a deserted island.

Some pages back someone compared flag burning to burning one's wife's dress and also later referred to it as a cloth. Well I know many men love their wives dearly but I have yet to see a man run his wife's dress up a flag pole and pledge allegiance to her. This however would be quite entertaining to all his neighbors :) . Also I have never seen a dress draped over the coffin of a fallen service member, or futher this dress than folded with care and handed to his or her family in rememberance of their life and actions. So I believe when someone protests by burning a flag they are banking that it will bring attention to their grievances. The protestor wants to make a profound statement while also eliciting that strong emotional response from their audience.. I mean if any old cloth would do the could burn an ugly pair of knickers and do us all a favor.