NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMUNIQUE OF THE CLANDESTINE REVOLUTIONARY INDIGENOUS COMMITTEE -
GENERAL COMMAND OF THE ZAPATISTA ARMY OF NATIONAL LIBERATION.

MEXICO.

June 19, 2005

To the People of Mexico:
To the Peoples of the World:

Brothers and Sisters:

As of today, the Zapatista Army of National Liberation has declared, throughout all rebel territory, a

GENERAL RED ALERT

Based on this, we are informing you:

First - That at this time the closure is being carried out of the Caracoles and the Good Government Offices which are located in the zapatista communities of Oventik, La Realidad, Morelia and Roberto Barrios, as well as all the headquarters of the authorities of the different Rebel Zapatista Autonomous Municipalities.

Second - That also being carried out is the evacuation of the members of the different Good Government Juntas and the autonomous authorities, in order to place them in shelter. Now, and for an indefinite time period, they will be carrying out their work in a clandestine and nomadic manner. Both the projects as well as the autonomous government will continue functioning, although under different circumstances than they have been up until now.

Third - That basic community health services will continue functioning in the different Caracoles. Civilians will be in charge of these services, and the CCRI-CG of the EZLN is distancing them from any of our future actions, and we are demanding that they be treated as civilians and with respect for their life, liberty and goods by government forces.

Fourth - That there has been a call-up of all members of our EZLN who have been engaged in social work in the zapatista communities and those of our regular troops who have been in their barracks. In a similar fashion, all broadcasts by Radio Insurgente, “The Voice of Those Without Voice”, in FM and in short wave, have been suspended for an indefinite period of time.

Fifth - That, simultaneous with the publication of this communiqué, national and international civil societies who are working in peace camps and in community projects are being urged to leave rebel territory. Or, if they decide freely of their own volition, they remain on their own and at their own risk, gathered in the caracoles. In the case of minors, their departure is obligatory.

Sixth - That the EZLN announces the closing of the Zapatista Information Centre (CIZ), not without first thanking the civil societies who have participated in it, from the time of its creation until today. The CCRI-CG of the EZLN formally releases these persons from any responsibility for the future actions of the EZLN.

Seventh - That the EZLN releases from responsibility for any of our future actions all persons and civil, political, cultural, citizens and non-governmental organizations, solidarity committees and support groups who have been close to us since 1994. We thank all of those who have, sincerely and honestly, throughout these almost 12 years, supported the civil and peaceful struggle of the zapatista indigenous for the constitutional recognition of indigenous rights and culture.

Democracy!
Liberty!
Justice!

From the Mountains of the Mexican Southeast.

By the Clandestine Revolutionary Indigenous Committee – General Command of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.

Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos.

Mexico, in the sixth month of the year 2005.





this can be found in spanish and english at the EZLN website located at www.EZLN.org

What the hell is going on...(I'm giving you my 7000th post by the way)...!!!???

¿Qué van a hacer?

I'm not sure at all, I think the mexican army is moving in?

whatever it is, they're shutting down their government centers and moving them with the army.. so i dunno.

This does not bode well. They've been pretty solid for the past 11 years...for them to be moving like this means they have a real fear of attack...

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-mexico-zapatistas,0,2148342.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

No one really seems to know what's happening...

According to Sub Marcos: infantry and armor are moving into zapatista territory

According to president Fox: Troops are pulling out of towns near EZLN territory, and have just completed a raid of marijuana farms within Rebel-held territory

According to Sub Marcos: infantry and armor are moving into zapatista territory

According to president Fox: Troops are pulling out of towns near EZLN territory, and have just completed a raid of marijuana farms within Rebel-held territory
I'd heard a bit in the news that the Zapatistas were being accused of drug trafficking...rather a good excuse to finally go after them, no?

I'd heard a bit in the news that the Zapatistas were being accused of drug trafficking...rather a good excuse to finally go after them, no?

Its the Mexican government. They are so full of corrupt officals that such a claim or accusation from them has no legitimacy. You can never trust that damned government.

I say the Zapatistas ask for US help. Finally we can take out Fox and the criminal gang that supports that sob

I say the Zapatistas ask for US help. Finally we can take out Fox and the criminal gang that supports that sob

Or finally you can leave well enough alone and let people in other countries pursue self-determination on their own terms...

I say the Zapatistas ask for US help. Finally we can take out Fox and the criminal gang that supports that sob
That would require eliminating anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4 of the mexican beauacracy. Assuming that you wanted to fully annihilate the criminal element.

Or finally you can leave well enough alone and let people in other countries pursue self-determination on their own terms...


Hey! Theres an idea I havent thought of! Well I think its to late for Mexico. US is entrenched very well there and vice versa.

That would require eliminating anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4 of the mexican beauacracy. Assuming that you wanted to fully annihilate the criminal element.


Yep, I have no use for criminals. Elimination by all means.

Or finally you can leave well enough alone and let people in other countries pursue self-determination on their own terms...

You should at least pick a coherent set of priniciples to criticize the US.

Which is it. Does the US not do enough, or does it meddle too much? It can't be both. :rolleyes:

Damn, I feel ignorant. At first, I thought the first post was something that should've been in International Incidents.

From what I just read, they're militant rebels trying to secure native rights, correct?

You should at least pick a coherent set of priniciples to criticize the US.

- you shall have to directly demonstrate to me this supposed incoherence you refer to.

Which is it. Does the US not do enough, or does it meddle too much? It can't be both. :rolleyes:

Echh, I hate those damn emoticons. People have never rolled their eyes as often as they do online. Why? Because it's considered rude.

Which is it? The US doesn't do enough good in the world, but that's more than outweighed by the vast amounts of wrongdoing. So maybe the US really does do enough, in a twisted sorta way. On the other hand, they meddle waaaaay too much in other people's affairs. No disputing that. So, there you have it. The US does too little good...far, far too much that's bad...and they can't seem to help sticking their noses into everything, even univited.

That about sums it up.

- you shall have to directly demonstrate to me this supposed incoherence you refer to.



Echh, I hate those damn emoticons. People have never rolled their eyes as often as they do online. Why? Because it's considered rude.

Which is it? The US doesn't do enough good in the world, but that's more than outweighed by the vast amounts of wrongdoing. So maybe the US really does do enough, in a twisted sorta way. On the other hand, they meddle waaaaay too much in other people's affairs. No disputing that. So, there you have it. The US does too little good...far, far too much that's bad...and they can't seem to help sticking their noses into everything, even univited.

That about sums it up.

But if you think it doesn't do enough good, that means you think it should try and do more, which basically boils down to more meddling, because pretty much anything that is done overseas involves sticking noses into other people's business. And yet you feel it meddles too much to begin with, and should stop. That's the incoherence.

You cannot advocate an isolationist US, then complain when it fails to act, not can you advocate an interventionist US, then complain when it acts.

I interpret the EZLN Red Alert to mean that the EZLN they do not want those who have helped them during the times of peace to be held accountable for whatever actions EZLN feels will be required in what they feel is an imminent violent struggle with the Mexican Govt. EZLN has made and received help from many friends inside and outside of Mexico. They don't want these friends to be hurt or persecuted simply for having been associated with EZLN during the times of peace.

Its alarming, and I fervently hope any violence that occurs will not become all-consuming and unending, as was the struggle in N. Ireland, East Timor or Sri Lanka. People have suffered enough, but the struggle for autonomy and self-government has rarely been a peaceful or short process at any point in history (except for India, god bless Ghandi)

eh...?




Is this RPing?




ewwww.

But if you think it doesn't do enough good, that means you think it should try and do more,

- Nah-ah-ah. *waggles finger* Not necessarily so. You speak from presumption.

which basically boils down to more meddling,

- Doesn't have to.

because pretty much anything that is done overseas involves sticking noses into other people's business.

- See above.

And yet you feel it meddles too much to begin with,

- Yes...

and should stop.

- Yes.

That's the incoherence.

- Where?

You cannot advocate an isolationist US, then complain when it fails to act, not can you advocate an interventionist US, then complain when it acts.

- I can advocate an isolationist US all I like, it's not going to happen. The US routinely fails to act, in all manner of capacities, from honouring trade agreements, to arms proliferation treaties, to environmental protection - which shall I complain about first?

If I were to advocate an interventionist US, I hardly think I'd be complaining when it...intervened...in other people's affairs, now would I? Simply put, I've never advocated 'interventionism'. One wonders where you might have dreamed that one up.

In any event, it is, as usual, not a case of either/or, black or white, or right and wrong. You Americans...well, certain among you anyways, need desperately to keep things in perspective.

- Nah-ah-ah. *waggles finger* Not necessarily so. You speak from presumption.

So you think it doesn't do enough good in the world, but that the amount it does - even though it is not enough - is just right? You probably should have made that part clearer. I always imagined "not enough" to be the same as "needs more".



- Doesn't have to.



- See above.



- Yes...



- Yes.



[QUOTE=Dobbsworld] - Where?

Anytime that the US acts overseas it is sticking its nose in. It is altering the outcome as compared to if it had stayed at home. You may choose to judge the final results as good, or you may judge them as bad, but it is always meddling in one form or another. Take the current situation in Mexico: Say the mexican government invited the US to intevene. That might be a good thing, I don't really care, but undoubtedly from the perspective of the rebels and their sympathizers abroad, it would be the US "meddling again".

- Where?

See above.

- I can advocate an isolationist US all I like, it's not going to happen. The US routinely fails to act, in all manner of capacities, from honouring trade agreements, to arms proliferation treaties, to environmental protection - which shall I complain about first?

Complain all you like, most of those accusations are baseless, and in any case have absolutely nothing to do with the US in respect of humanitarian aid or peace keeping. So they have nothing to do with what we are discussing.

If I were to advocate an interventionist US, I hardly think I'd be complaining when it...intervened...in other people's affairs, now would I? Simply put, I've never advocated 'interventionism'. One wonders where you might have dreamed that one up.

Well now you have explained to me that when you say "not enough" it also means "just the right amount" or "too much", I believe that we are talking at cross purposes on this point, so I withdraw the remark.

In any event, it is, as usual, not a case of either/or, black or white, or right and wrong. You Americans...well, certain among you anyways, need desperately to keep things in perspective.

No, it is, as usual, a case of someone who wants to criticize the US generally and seizes an off chance remark to damn its entire foreign policy. And naturally, it cannot be phrased as a dislike of US policy based upon personal preferences - because that would lack gravitas - so instead it is couched in terms like "meddling" as if there are some higher principles with respect to isolantionism and interventionism in play, rather than a simple out and out dislike of the US.

So you think it doesn't do enough good in the world, but that the amount it does - even though it is not enough - is just right? You probably should have made that part clearer. I always imagined "not enough" to be the same as "needs more".

I made no qualitative value judgement. I made note of the relative amounts of good and bad the US is responsible for. No more, no less.

You're projecting your values and mindset upon my statements.

No, it is, as usual, a case of someone who wants to criticize the US generally and seizes an off chance remark to damn its entire foreign policy. And naturally, it cannot be phrased as a dislike of US policy based upon personal preferences - because that would lack gravitas - so instead it is couched in terms like "meddling" as if there are some higher principles with respect to isolantionism and interventionism in play, rather than a simple out and out dislike of the US.

See? You're doing it again.

Look, I'll make it easier for you: I'll just go do something more interesting, and you can stay here and try putting words in my mouth. How's that for fun and amusement?

I made no qualitative value judgement. I made note of the relative amounts of good and bad the US is responsible for. No more, no less.

You're projecting your values and mindset upon my statements.

Then don't say things like "not enough", that's a quantative value judgement.


See? You're doing it again.

Look, I'll make it easier for you: I'll just go do something more interesting, and you can stay here and try putting words in my mouth. How's that for fun and amusement?

Not really. You did say.

Or finally you can leave well enough alone and let people in other countries pursue self-determination on their own terms...

Which is sort of a general condemnation exactly like I described.

You put the words there yourself.

...Zzz...

eh...?




Is this RPing?




ewwww.



NO> This is dead serious and very real. EZLN is a rebel group in a province of Mexico, fighting for the freedom and self-governement of the indigenous (native) population there, a people long oppressed by the corrupt Mexican Gov't. There was an armed uprising there in the 90's. Go to Wikkipedia and educate yourself about it.

I say the Zapatistas ask for US help. Finally we can take out Fox and the criminal gang that supports that sob
Yeah right. The US is going to support a group it considers to be composed of terrorists.

Lac...get the hell of Dobb's back.

Everyone else:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22687392.htm

Some speculated that the guerrillas, who surprised the world when they exploded out of the Chiapas jungle and hills on New Year's Day in 1994, may now want to define their political role before presidential elections next year.

*snip*
Marcos, who is believed to be former university professor Rafael Sebastian Guillen, last weekend criticized the country's most popular politician, Mexico City Mayor Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, for betraying the left. Some saw that as a sign the Zapatistas, named after Mexican revolutionary hero Emiliano Zapata, might be becoming more interested in mainstream politics.

Chamberlin disagrees. "They are not going to form a political party because they are critical of the electoral system and they are not going to get into that game," he said.

It's still a guessing game it seems...

Lac...get the hell of Dobb's back.



Spoilsport. :(

SAN CRISTOBAL DE LAS CASAS, Mexico, June 21 (Reuters) - Mexico's Zapatista rebel group said on Tuesday it would consult its activists to decide on the future of its 11-year fight for Indian rights, a day after putting its forces on high alert.

Zapatista leader Subcomandante Marcos said in a statement that the group "is proposing to its sympathizers, who make up the supreme command of our movement, a new step in the struggle."

I'm wondering if after 11 years, they just need to regroup and start pushing harder for self-determination? I think it would be easy for people to become disillusioned by the lack of INCREDIBLE success (thought there have been some pretty important improvements made), and perhaps the EZLN is in danger of kind of fading away without some sort of renewal and commitment?

Spoilsport. :(
Yes, yes I am.

Yes, yes I am.

Nah, you're not a spoilsport. You just somehow manage to always swoop in to my rescue.

Thanks.

NO> This is dead serious and very real. EZLN is a rebel group in a province of Mexico, fighting for the freedom and self-governement of the indigenous (native) population there, a people long oppressed by the corrupt Mexican Gov't. There was an armed uprising there in the 90's. Go to Wikkipedia and educate yourself about it.


I see.



I would, but I don't care




Good luck to them.

I see.



I would, but I don't care
(assuming you are North American)
You should. Your native peoples are watching closely what happens in Chiapas...and we're taking notes. At some point, it could become much more an immediate issue for you than it is right now. *hopes*