NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a question that's been bugging me for ages...do I update to Tiger? Do I go for all the fancy widgets and dashboards, or do I stick to Panther, and be boring. Is there any actual benefit of switching to tiger? What's your experience with Tiger? What's your experience with Panther come to that? In fact, what's your experience with Macs in general? Do you share my love for the simple drag/drop interface, and hate for the Windows annoyingly difficult interface, where yo can never do what you want to do?
Poll Coming!

What ever floats your boat.

I was a Mac Network guy. Had 300 macs under my watch once. When apple collapsed, I joined the dark side and converted the company over to PC. Never looked back. I now take care of about 600 Windows, 50 Solaris, and about 150 Linux(redhat, susi).

Macs aren't getting in to our industry anytime soon.

Though I am now looking at one of the storage arrays. Apple gave us a loaner of a g5 server.

We may get the array but desktops? Not going to happen.

For apple they are in Catch-22. We won't write software until the customers want it. The customers won't want it until we write the software.....

Ah well. With the new Pentium announcement. The desktops will probably still be the most expensive so we will probably remain with the PCs and used FreeBSD if there was a demand.

To be honest, I got into Macs by way of the Atari ST a long ways back. I was a dedicated Mac user for fifteen years. And then I finally, one day realized that there were too many apps I needed to be able to run that required Windows XP professional, and the prices on Macs, as ever, are obscenely high until about six months before they're obsolete and unsupported.

So I gave myself a break, got over the one last vestigial bit of brand loyalty that had been skipping my groove, and now I have a kickass pimped-out system that makes my friends drool. I've come to like XP - in fact, I much prefer it over the Mac OS now.

Gone over to the Dark Side, and loving it.

For apple they are in Catch-22. We won't write software until the customers want it. The customers won't want it until we write the software.....
Does that mean you won't switch simply because software isn't really available then?

Does that mean you won't switch simply because software isn't really available then?

Pretty much the case.

But in my companies case, it is an expensive solution. Who would have ever thought that possible. A fully loaded Mac with a large monitor(needed for what we do), can run about 5-6 grand. A comprable PC will run us 2-4 depending on the deals we get.

The arguement of blue screens are not valid anymore. We rarely see them with 2000 and even less with XP.

Well I switched from a Windows laptop a year ago (Sony Vaio with XP Pro) to an Apple PowerBook and I've never been happier. The OS is gorgeous, incredibly stable and does absolutely everything I need it to do, I have no problems at all finding software for it. I love it so much that I pre-ordered Tiger and got it on the release day. Before OSX, I wouldn't have touched a Mac with a bargepole, but now they make fantastic software and gorgeous hardware, sure it's a bit more expensive, but it has real style.

I'm a Mac user and convert from Windows because I just want my computer to do what I need it to do without f'n with it. I don't have to forbid techie friends from touching it because they might alter some weird thing somewhere and I won't be able to use it. And it's a tank. I've dropped this thing something fierce and it just doesn't care.

Having said that, I never even updated to Panther. I'm using, I don't know-Calico? Whatever it came with. X something. (here you can see what kind of computer I want to work with, no?) Works great. I can't get a handle on what the new version is supposed to do for me exactly or why I would want to blow a hundred plus bucks on it. I still have to update my Final Cut Pro, I'm two generations behind.

It's a tool. I don't want to have to dedicate a disproportionate amount of time learning to use a tool when I could be doing the job I need the tool for.

I only really update when I see something that I'm not able to do now that would make my life in a specific way easier. I don't really understand the Dashboard, so I don't think I need it.

Pretty much the case.

But in my companies case, it is an expensive solution. Who would have ever thought that possible. A fully loaded Mac with a large monitor(needed for what we do), can run about 5-6 grand. A comprable PC will run us 2-4 depending on the deals we get.

The arguement of blue screens are not valid anymore. We rarely see them with 2000 and even less with XP.


I'm assuming that is in another country besides US$'s.

If you are spending $6K on a workstation, unless you're going to simulate nuclear blasts, a standard $2K workstation, with a standard CRT screen from IBM/Lenavo would do the trick quite nicely.

I'm a Mac user and convert from Windows because I just want my computer to do what I need it to do without f'n with it. I don't have to forbid techie friends from touching it because they might alter some weird thing somewhere and I won't be able to use it. And it's a tank. I've dropped this thing something fierce and it just doesn't care.

Having said that, I never even updated to Panther. I'm using, I don't know-Calico? Whatever it came with. X something. (here you can see what kind of computer I want to work with, no?) Works great. I can't get a handle on what the new version is supposed to do for me exactly or why I would want to blow a hundred plus bucks on it. I still have to update my Final Cut Pro, I'm two generations behind.

It's a tool. I don't want to have to dedicate a disproportionate amount of time learning to use a tool when I could be doing the job I need the tool for.

I only really update when I see something that I'm not able to do now that would make my life in a specific way easier. I don't really understand the Dashboard, so I don't think I need it.
So you're one of us sensible ones that just want it to do a job?

tadaa... www.osx.portraitofakite.com :cool:


but PC pwns - i was poking around on my friend's mac last night. really don't get on with the OS, and the hardware benefits of the PC speak for themselves

tadaa... www.osx.portraitofakite.com :cool:


but PC pwns - i was poking around on my friend's mac last night. really don't get on with the OS, and the hardware benefits of the PC speak for themselves

So who are you going for mac or windows? And don't "spam" my thread with stupid links...it's annoying more than anything else, because the mods like shutting threads down if they link to places that have little to do with the discussion.

So who are you going for mac or windows? And don't "spam" my thread with stupid links...it's annoying more than anything else, because the mods like shutting threads down if they link to places that have little to do with the discussion.
actually if you look at the link you'll see its fairly relavent to the thread, and by saying "i really didn't get on with the [mac] OS" pretty much gives away that i'm a staunch windows user :rolleyes:

actually if you look at the link you'll see its fairly relavent to the thread, and by saying "i really didn't get on with the [mac] OS" pretty much gives away that i'm a staunch windows user :rolleyes:
Ah, but I've had the mods shut down or move threads of mine with links like that.

Ah, but I've had the mods shut down or move threads of mine with links like that.
fair enough, but it is a good link - especially for windows users to get a taste of what OSX is like

fair enough, but it is a good link - especially for windows users to get a taste of what OSX is like
Fair enough....but why don't you like Mac OS?

So you're one of us sensible ones that just want it to do a job?
Yeah, I'm nutty that way...

Yeah, I'm nutty that way...

NOOOO, "senisble", we call it "sensible"....windows users call us nutty...so we must be sensible.

We've got 3 Windows boxes and a recently purchased Imac G5. With a choice of machines to work on - and I can use any computer I like - I find myself preferring the Mac for routine business. I like OS X quite well.

Having a access to both Windows and OS X is the way to go.

I'm assuming that is in another country besides US$'s.

If you are spending $6K on a workstation, unless you're going to simulate nuclear blasts, a standard $2K workstation, with a standard CRT screen from IBM/Lenavo would do the trick quite nicely.

EDA industry. Funny you mention simulate. One of our packages basically allows you to similate a microprocessor design to test out an idea.

We need the power. Pretty soon the majority of systems will be 64 bit.....

I still use OS X, but my friend Optima Justitia is upgrading to Tiger pretty soon, and I'll find out his opinion when he does.

In the meantime I like OS X fine; it works well. I may upgrade when Tiger becomes less expensive, or alternately when X bombs on me.

I upgraded to Tiger from Panther... to be honest, there aren't many defining differences for the way I use my computer...

Love using MAC though in comparison with Windows... it's so many more times reliable than Windows, I can't remember the last time my Apple crashed, Windows seems to go wrong so often.

So, I have surprised myself... originally I bought the Mac because it looked sexy (stupid rationale to buy a computer I know)... and now I'm totally converted.

What ever floats your boat.

I was a Mac Network guy. Had 300 macs under my watch once. When apple collapsed, I joined the dark side and converted the company over to PC. Never looked back. I now take care of about 600 Windows, 50 Solaris, and about 150 Linux(redhat, susi).

Macs aren't getting in to our industry anytime soon.

Though I am now looking at one of the storage arrays. Apple gave us a loaner of a g5 server.

We may get the array but desktops? Not going to happen.

For apple they are in Catch-22. We won't write software until the customers want it. The customers won't want it until we write the software.....

Ah well. With the new Pentium announcement. The desktops will probably still be the most expensive so we will probably remain with the PCs and used FreeBSD if there was a demand.


Bah go SATA over Ethernet :)

I upgraded to Tiger from Panther... to be honest, there aren't many defining differences for the way I use my computer...

Love using MAC though in comparison with Windows... it's so many more times reliable than Windows, I can't remember the last time my Apple crashed, Windows seems to go wrong so often.

So, I have surprised myself... originally I bought the Mac because it looked sexy (stupid rationale to buy a computer I know)... and now I'm totally converted.
BAH use *nix :) my FreeBSD machine has not had a reboot in roughly 632 days and 4 hours and change

EDA industry. Funny you mention simulate. One of our packages basically allows you to similate a microprocessor design to test out an idea.

We need the power. Pretty soon the majority of systems will be 64 bit.....
OhhhOhhh have you compared the opteron to the standard 64 in a simulation envyroment (specialy with large FPU' var's) ... amazing the difference

Fair enough....but why don't you like Mac OS?
It like everything has its benefits and disadvantages … it all depends on what you are doing with it

We've got 3 Windows boxes and a recently purchased Imac G5. With a choice of machines to work on - and I can use any computer I like - I find myself preferring the Mac for routine business. I like OS X quite well.

Having a access to both Windows and OS X is the way to go.
I tend to agree … to my right on my work desk is a windows … a BSD and a Mac G4 (old I know but my pc does most of the heavy work)

At home I don’t have the mac option … but that’s fine I really would not use it much in that situation

I upgraded about a week ago. I'd been using Panther, and the jump to Tiger was mostly out of curiosity. (By the way, all of it is OS X. It's X, the Roman Numeral for 10. For example: 10.2 was Jaguar, 10.3 was Panther, 10.4 is Tiger...) Truly, Dashboard is the only huge difference; Spotlight is a much quicker search than the old-fashioned search, but other than that I haven't found much advantage in it. (I suspect, however, that I'm missing something important. I'm certain there's more to Spotlight than that -- or it wouldn't have spent three hours indexing our eMac on the first boot.) Dashboard is cool, but it's again, not necessary.

The most "necessary" features of Tiger that I've encountered have been enhanced performance. I'd abandoned Safari in Jaguar because it was stalling, behaving incorrectly with groups.msn.com and basically refused to quit. I'd get the "spinning beachball of death for literally minutes." This upgrade has corrected that and I've switched back to Safari from Firefox. The entire system runs faster, too. Not that I'd ever found it slow, but I notice tasks being completed more quickly now.

One of the mini-features is that you now have the option to set your "Online" status in iChat to show the current iTunes song. Not a big deal -- but I've found myself using that feature fairly regularly. (That actually be because iChatAV is the default iChat in this OS.)

The GUI is definitely beautiful -- and Mail just looks better. I realize this isn't enough reason to spend $120 for the upgrade, but honestly, it's a beautiful OS.

If money is no object, it's worth the upgrade. If money is, I haven't noticed that much a productivity increase to warrant it -- does that make sense?

(Oh, if you do upgrade, be forewarned. The first boot after the upgrade is very slow. So slow that I thought I'd "killed" my baby. I'm talking literal minutes to login, and then the "spinning beachball of death" for several minutes before anything happened. After the Spotlight indexing, I restarted the computer and all is well. It seems faster than Panther, but that could be purely perception...)

I upgraded about a week ago. I'd been using Panther, and the jump to Tiger was mostly out of curiosity. (By the way, all of it is OS X. It's X, the Roman Numeral for 10. For example: 10.2 was Jaguar, 10.3 was Panther, 10.4 is Tiger...) Truly, Dashboard is the only huge difference; Spotlight is a much quicker search than the old-fashioned search, but other than that I haven't found much advantage in it. (I suspect, however, that I'm missing something important. I'm certain there's more to Spotlight than that -- or it wouldn't have spent three hours indexing our eMac on the first boot.) Dashboard is cool, but it's again, not necessary.

The most "necessary" features of Tiger that I've encountered have been enhanced performance. I'd abandoned Safari in Jaguar because it was stalling, behaving incorrectly with groups.msn.com and basically refused to quit. I'd get the "spinning beachball of death for literally minutes." This upgrade has corrected that and I've switched back to Safari from Firefox. The entire system runs faster, too. Not that I'd ever found it slow, but I notice tasks being completed more quickly now.

One of the mini-features is that you now have the option to set your "Online" status in iChat to show the current iTunes song. Not a big deal -- but I've found myself using that feature fairly regularly. (That actually be because iChatAV is the default iChat in this OS.)

The GUI is definitely beautiful -- and Mail just looks better. I realize this isn't enough reason to spend $120 for the upgrade, but honestly, it's a beautiful OS.

If money is no object, it's worth the upgrade. If money is, I haven't noticed that much a productivity increase to warrant it -- does that make sense?

(Oh, if you do upgrade, be forewarned. The first boot after the upgrade is very slow. So slow that I thought I'd "killed" my baby. I'm talking literal minutes to login, and then the "spinning beachball of death" for several minutes before anything happened. After the Spotlight indexing, I restarted the computer and all is well. It seems faster than Panther, but that could be purely perception...)


On top of all that there is increased ability to build X-Win applications (if x-win is installed off of cd 3 if I remember (though that might be panther it was auto upgraded))
Also an ability to install GTK for compilation from source and running (in tandem with X-win) *nix applications

On top of all that there is increased ability to build X-Win applications (if x-win is installed off of cd 3 if I remember (though that might be panther it was auto upgraded))
Also an ability to install GTK for compilation from source and running (in tandem with X-win) *nix applications

Both things I don't use, need, or even understand. :confused: :p :D

I upgraded about a week ago. I'd been using Panther, and the jump to Tiger was mostly out of curiosity. (By the way, all of it is OS X. It's X, the Roman Numeral for 10. For example: 10.2 was Jaguar, 10.3 was Panther, 10.4 is Tiger...) Truly, Dashboard is the only huge difference; Spotlight is a much quicker search than the old-fashioned search, but other than that I haven't found much advantage in it. (I suspect, however, that I'm missing something important. I'm certain there's more to Spotlight than that -- or it wouldn't have spent three hours indexing our eMac on the first boot.) Dashboard is cool, but it's again, not necessary.

The most "necessary" features of Tiger that I've encountered have been enhanced performance. I'd abandoned Safari in Jaguar because it was stalling, behaving incorrectly with groups.msn.com and basically refused to quit. I'd get the "spinning beachball of death for literally minutes." This upgrade has corrected that and I've switched back to Safari from Firefox. The entire system runs faster, too. Not that I'd ever found it slow, but I notice tasks being completed more quickly now.

One of the mini-features is that you now have the option to set your "Online" status in iChat to show the current iTunes song. Not a big deal -- but I've found myself using that feature fairly regularly. (That actually be because iChatAV is the default iChat in this OS.)

The GUI is definitely beautiful -- and Mail just looks better. I realize this isn't enough reason to spend $120 for the upgrade, but honestly, it's a beautiful OS.

If money is no object, it's worth the upgrade. If money is, I haven't noticed that much a productivity increase to warrant it -- does that make sense?

(Oh, if you do upgrade, be forewarned. The first boot after the upgrade is very slow. So slow that I thought I'd "killed" my baby. I'm talking literal minutes to login, and then the "spinning beachball of death" for several minutes before anything happened. After the Spotlight indexing, I restarted the computer and all is well. It seems faster than Panther, but that could be purely perception...)

Damn, looks like I'm stuck with Panther for a while then :( can't afford it really, I was just hoping there was some shining star, some amazing thing that'd make upgrading seem....right.

Damn, looks like I'm stuck with Panther for a while then :( can't afford it really, I was just hoping there was some shining star, some amazing thing that'd make upgrading seem....right.
Like I said some of the back end is changed (along with their version of init) but panther is fine I would personaly not spend money on it

Update. I'm still on panther, but if you can afford the what is it yearly upgrades is it now do so, but as a pre exisiting apple sustomer you'll get the update cheaply, or...possible free-(that doesn't sound right). Its the annti virus updates you get free. oops!

Damn, looks like I'm stuck with Panther for a while then :( can't afford it really, I was just hoping there was some shining star, some amazing thing that'd make upgrading seem....right.

Do you have BitTorrent? You might be able to pirate a copy. Not that I encourage thar or anything. ;)

Update. I'm still on panther, but if you can afford the what is it yearly upgrades is it now do so, but as a pre exisiting apple sustomer you'll get the update cheaply, or...possible free-(that doesn't sound right). Its the annti virus updates you get free. oops!
Naw … that’s one of my major issues with their new release

They are doing the release often Unix method (with version numbers) but they are not providing the updates between

For example in most nix systems updating between (lets say BSD) 5.1 to 5.3 or 5.4 (new) was easy


But MAC is releasing the updates but not providing built in free web based updating

I'd say switch to Tiger. I'm currently running on Panther (10.3.9 due to several upgrades my dad made). Dad got the Tiger on the day it came out and he's been waiting for any bug reports. I'd buy it and do the same thing. Or, just wait for a little while before even buying it and then getting it once there is more news on Mac.com about the Tiger reporting any bugs and whatnot.

Do you have BitTorrent? You might be able to pirate a copy. Not that I encourage thar or anything. ;)
how do i know if i have bittorrent?

how do i know if i have bittorrent?

You'd have downloaded it from here (http://www.bittorrent.com/).

But you'd then have to know how to use it...

You'd have downloaded it from here (http://www.bittorrent.com/).

But you'd then have to know how to use it...
This smells of illeagality?

This smells of illeagality?

Um, yeah. Pirated software isn't legal.

Um, yeah. Pirated software isn't legal.
shame....out of interest....how would you define pirated software?

shame....out of interest....how would you define pirated software?

From nopiracy.com:
Internet Piracy:
This occurs when software is downloaded from the Internet. The same purchasing rules should apply to online software purchase as for those bought in traditional ways. Internet piracy can take the following forms:

Pirate websites that make software available for free download or in exchange for uploaded programs;

Internet auction sites that offer counterfeit, out-of-channel, infringing copyright software;

Peer-to-Peer networks that enable unauthorized transfer of copyrighted programs.

shame....out of interest....how would you define pirated software?

Software, which is NOT freeware or shareware, which someone has illegally received without paying the publisher for use of their product.

Damn. awell. just have to wait til i have money then....i'm not too keen on breakibng the law

This smells of illeagality?
IF you download copyrighted software yes
But BitTorrent itself is COMPLEATLY legal to have and is used a LOT in the *nix world a LOT for compleatly legal updates or open source downloads

(An estimated 60 percent of all internet traffic is bit torrent ... at least in the late 90-'s to 02)

IF you download copyrighted software yes
But BitTorrent itself is COMPLEATLY legal to have and is used a LOT in the *nix world a LOT for compleatly legal updates or open source downloads

(An estimated 60 percent of all internet traffic is bit torrent ... at least in the late 90-'s to 02)

Ah but using bittorrent to download tiger, which is what we were discussing, IS illeagal

Ah but using bittorrent to download tiger, which is what we were discussing, IS illeagal
As far as I know about the license ... yes Just wanted to make sure you did not think bit torrent itself is illigal

As far as I know about the license ... yes Just wanted to make sure you did not think bit torrent itself is illigal

Nah, i realised that....it's like owning speed camera detectors isn't illeagal but for USING them, IS.

Nah, i realised that....it's like owning speed camera detectors isn't illeagal but for USING them, IS.
Depends on where ... they are not illigal to use here along with radar detectors (at least in minnesota) but you cant have them mounted on windshield :p

Depends on where ... they are not illigal to use here along with radar detectors (at least in minnesota) but you cant have them mounted on windshield :p

Ah but it is still against the law to speed, henece the need for speed camera detectors in the first place, so if the policce caught you "using" one just before you pass a camera; in whatever country/state/county you're in; you're in trouble.

Doesn't the Tiger have a glitch that automatically installs widgets and leaves you open to viruses?

Doesn't the Tiger have a glitch that automatically installs widgets and leaves you open to viruses?
No idea, but my mac doesn't seem to be able to get viruses however hard i try. (Ihave Panther on a G5 iMac 17" monitor [no tower, obviously] 149 gig something, 1 gig something else...never sure which way round it is)

Ah but it is still against the law to speed, henece the need for speed camera detectors in the first place, so if the policce caught you "using" one just before you pass a camera; in whatever country/state/county you're in; you're in trouble.
Not here no I have mine mounted from a shelf by visors ... no problem ... the only thing they have a problem with is scramblers

No idea, but my mac doesn't seem to be able to get viruses however hard i try. (Ihave Panther on a G5 iMac 17" monitor [no tower, obviously] 149 gig something, 1 gig something else...never sure which way round it is)
If you want me to I am sure I can find a few :)

If you want me to I am sure I can find a few :)
Not right at this moment cheers. :)

No idea, but my mac doesn't seem to be able to get viruses however hard i try. (Ihave Panther on a G5 iMac 17" monitor [no tower, obviously] 149 gig something, 1 gig something else...never sure which way round it is)
Where do you live and when will you be out? (I wants a G5 sooooo bad....)

"spinning beachball of death for literally minutes."
Nothing says "You didn't save often enough" like the "spinning beachball of death."

Where do you live and when will you be out? (I wants a G5 sooooo bad....)

Wales, and Never!! I'm staying close to my G5!! hehehehe.

Wales, and Never!! I'm staying close to my G5!! hehehehe.
Sometimes I feel like my G4 PowerBook is strapped to my leg. It's only going to get worse (I get to edit something strangers will see!!! Strangers I'll never meet!!! And (oddly enough this is also exciting) it's not my project or my money!!! Yay!!! So rare...)

Sometimes I feel like my G4 PowerBook is strapped to my leg. It's only going to get worse (I get to edit something strangers will see!!! Strangers I'll never meet!!! And (oddly enough this is also exciting) it's not my project or my money!!! Yay!!! So rare...)
Hehe....but the questions is......Tiger?

Hehe....but the questions is......Tiger?
Whatever it came with-pre Panther...Calico? I don't know. X something...

Whatever it came with-pre Panther...Calico? I don't know. X something...

Ah right, fair enough. Not thinking of upgrading?

Ah right, fair enough. Not thinking of upgrading?
I'm a po' po' post gradu-ate. And my bus just decided that it doesn't want to stay in 4th gear anymore. Money's gotta go elsewhere.

I'm a po' po' post gradu-ate. And my bus just decided that it doesn't want to stay in 4th gear anymore. Money's gotta go elsewhere.

Fair enough. .. Would you if you had the money though?

Fair enough. .. Would you if you had the money though?
It might make the top 15 "Things I really need to do once I can stop the hand to mouth circle." Though that might only be so it can work with the upgraded Final Cut Pro, they are designed to use the new operating systems. But then, I'd also have to be able to upgrade FCP...

It might make the top 15 "Things I really need to do once I can stop the hand to mouth circle." Though that might only be so it can work with the upgraded Final Cut Pro, they are designed to use the new operating systems. But then, I'd also have to be able to upgrade FCP...

And every othewr upgrade under the sun right?

And every othewr upgrade under the sun right?
Pretty much. But I tend not to upgrade until I really really have to.

Pretty much. But I tend not to upgrade until I really really have to.

Upgrade fr use and not for fun....shame...lol.

*hasn't read the thread*
I'm about to convert to Tiger. Later today, in fact.

Whatever it came with-pre Panther...Calico? I don't know. X something...

Jaguar was before Panther.

Nothing says "You didn't save often enough" like the "spinning beachball of death."

Luckily, I never lost anything due to the "spinning beachball of death."

*hasn't read the thread*
I'm about to convert to Tiger. Later today, in fact.

Any good...?

Luckily, I never lost anything due to the "spinning beachball of death."
I lost 18 hours of editing to the spinning beachball of death. Though thats when I was first using both mac and FCP. I think if that happened again I might be able to actually find the project.