NationStates Jolt Archive

With the little gremlin (http://www.pm.gov.au) getting dictator status in July 1, many people are concered as to what he is going to do with our country.
His party stands for tax cuts for the rich, no welfare, minimal public services, privatisation of major public services, low minimum wages, huge gaps between the living standards of the rich and the poor, and all those delightful things that improve the economy but lower living standards unethically.
In fact, everything he's said and done has pointed at modelling our system directly off the US system.
So I put it to you US citizens - is he doing the right thing?
Anyone on incomes less than $70,000 are scared for their lives, while the rest of us are extremely concerned for them. There exists a minority of the old rich who are completely blinded to the lower classes who see these changes as a welcome extra few million in their pockets. But I'm interested in hearing an American perspective (for the first time in a while) into such changes.
Should there be a mass exodus to Europe where reminants of our pre-Howard economy exist? Or should we wait for the next elections, possibly benifiting from these changes? Or with the slowdown of the American economy of late, should we be looking to a new and better system, one that isn't like our existing one nor the American one?


I can supply more information regarding the proposed changes if you need it, but the general idea is creating an economy and shaping government laws and policies to mirror US economic and governmental policies.

As an American I have to say this. Run. Run now. Run fast. Don't look back.

I just love the fact how they are just so completely uneducated morons when it comes to Economic policy.
What Keating did back then is the reason Australia is doing so well, not Howard and not Costello.
Then they scare the shit out of people with interest rates, knowing fully well that they're bullshitting.
And now they seem to wanna try to compete with Chinese labour on price.

I'm just glad I'm out of here in two or three years, cuz this place is gonna get fucked.

As an American I have to say this. Run. Run now. Run fast. Don't look back.

I second the sentiment.

I just love the fact how they are just so completely uneducated morons when it comes to Economic policy.
What Keating did back then is the reason Australia is doing so well, not Howard and not Costello.
Then they scare the shit out of people with interest rates, knowing fully well that they're bullshitting.
And now they seem to wanna try to compete with Chinese labour on price.

I'm just glad I'm out of here in two or three years, cuz this place is gonna get fucked.
Yeah that's my opinion of it all =P
Howard's taking all the credit for good economic policies of the Keating government, and is going to completely fuck our economy up - not to metion everything else.
Ehh, it's so frustrating. I love Sydney, but I know I'll have to leave (run) sooner or later.

Methinks Howard is trying to get Oz back to its Transportation Days.

For anyone who doesn't understand that, it's a reference to the old Penal Colony Days.

In fact, everything he's said and done has pointed at modelling our system directly off the US system.

Good for me and you guys. Allow me to personally welcome ya’ll to sanity. :D

Quite.
Or Yeeeeeeehaaaaww!!!, rather.

With the little gremlin (http://www.pm.gov.au) getting dictator status in July 1, many people are concered as to what he is going to do with our country.
His party stands for tax cuts for the rich, no welfare, minimal public services, privatisation of major public services, low minimum wages, huge gaps between the living standards of the rich and the poor, and all those delightful things that improve the economy but lower living standards unethically.
In fact, everything he's said and done has pointed at modelling our system directly off the US system.
So I put it to you US citizens - is he doing the right thing?
Anyone on incomes less than $70,000 are scared for their lives, while the rest of us are extremely concerned for them. There exists a minority of the old rich who are completely blinded to the lower classes who see these changes as a welcome extra few million in their pockets. But I'm interested in hearing an American perspective (for the first time in a while) into such changes.
Should there be a mass exodus to Europe where reminants of our pre-Howard economy exist? Or should we wait for the next elections, possibly benifiting from these changes? Or with the slowdown of the American economy of late, should we be looking to a new and better system, one that isn't like our existing one nor the American one?

I can supply more information regarding the proposed changes if you need it, but the general idea is creating an economy and shaping government laws and policies to mirror US economic and governmental policies.

If you're saying that the majority of people in Australia (and I have to assume that only a tiny minority are the "old rich") are scared or nervous, then why did they vote for Howard?

If it is true welcome to a lifestyle that will require a bit more work, give you a bit more freedom in some areas and a bit less in others and will see an improvement in your medical system's quality of tech and number of doctors but a higher price tag.

Things are never as bad as you think they will be and never as good as a politician would have us believe they could become. Quit worrying and live you life.

With the little gremlin (http://www.pm.gov.au) getting dictator status in July 1, many people are concered as to what he is going to do with our country.
His party stands for tax cuts for the rich, no welfare, minimal public services, privatisation of major public services, low minimum wages, huge gaps between the living standards of the rich and the poor, and all those delightful things that improve the economy but lower living standards unethically.
In fact, everything he's said and done has pointed at modelling our system directly off the US system.
So I put it to you US citizens - is he doing the right thing?
Anyone on incomes less than $70,000 are scared for their lives, while the rest of us are extremely concerned for them. There exists a minority of the old rich who are completely blinded to the lower classes who see these changes as a welcome extra few million in their pockets. But I'm interested in hearing an American perspective (for the first time in a while) into such changes.
Should there be a mass exodus to Europe where reminants of our pre-Howard economy exist? Or should we wait for the next elections, possibly benifiting from these changes? Or with the slowdown of the American economy of late, should we be looking to a new and better system, one that isn't like our existing one nor the American one?


I can supply more information regarding the proposed changes if you need it, but the general idea is creating an economy and shaping government laws and policies to mirror US economic and governmental policies.

Please keep in mind that our left in the US will say or do anything to further their cause. Truth is irrelevant and an inconvinence for them.

Tax cuts for the rich: Our tax cuts for the rich were actually tax cuts for everyone that paid taxes. In the US our poor do not pay taxes on income. The fact is that they get everything back that was witheld and if they have kids they acutally get back more than they ever paid into the system. You must also realize that the term "poor" here has a totally different meaning as elsewhere. Our average "poor" people have a house, 2 cars, DVD's, cable TV, and for the most part you would never guess who they are because HUD subsidizes their housing so they may live right next door. Yes we do have below average poor, these are people who refuse to work, drug addicts, illegal aliens and those that have been displaced by illegal aliens. (the newest poor we have) The bottom line is tax cuts free up money that increases business expenditures and increases hiring. Unfortunately opening the immigration gates and unchecked out sourcing negate the benefit which is Mr Bush's greatest failing of all. Unfortunately it is almost unmentioned because our liberal politicians mistakenly think that more illegal aliens will help them get elected. Neither side yet realizes that whichever side closes the borders will now win hands down.

No welfare. We have welfare, but now it is limited. You can no longer make welfare you lifetime employment here. They will get you a job.

Growing gap between rich and poor. That is a much abused statistic but as an economy grows the upper and middle classes expand while the number of poor goes down with slower growth in their rate of income, thanks again to the open floodgate of illegal aliens. In any case this "gap" and "unemployment rates" are the two most abused numbers in the history of the United States. The gap is abused by democrats and the unemployment rate is abused by republicans. They say our unemployment rate is 5.2%. In truth, if you include the people disposed by illegal aliens and the numbers they have removed from the rolls, it is acutally closer to 9.3% as of two months ago.

Minimal public services- This can be good or bad depending on the type of service. Any deregulation that allows control for resources from below the ground to the end users connection is bad! It is all about competition, if a service can be deregulated with an amount of competition then by all means it is great, but if you are deregulating monopolies then there is something rotten in denmark to coin the phrase. Case example in the US. Gas Service deregulation has been a disaster. Gas companies now own the gas from the ground all the way to the end users furnace. That is horrible because no one can choose another gas company in most places.

Overall however it is generally safe to say that in the long run if it is good for business and there is competition, it is good for everyone, but, I would not pattern my entire system around the US. There are things they have done that remain in place that are absolutey unforgivable mistakes driven by nothing but sheer greed. The key to this sort of thing is short term limits for politicians and if at all possible, MAKE IT STRICTLY ILLEGAL FOR ANY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE TO RECIEVE EVEN A DIME FROM A CORPORTAION UNDER PENATLY OF INCARCERATION FOR BOTH THE EMPLOYEE AND CEO! and MAKE LOBBYING ILLEGAL!

If you're saying that the majority of people in Australia (and I have to assume that only a tiny minority are the "old rich") are scared or nervous, then why did they vote for Howard?
It's a long story. It mainly has to do with people buying houses they can't really afford, followed by Howard running around and proclaiming "Labour's gonna raise interest rates! Labour's gonna raise interest rates!"
Which is ridiculous, but try someone here who has a basic understanding of those things.

Speaking of lies for the sake of furthering your own bullshit *cough typical right wing propaganda cough*

Liverbreath']Our average "poor" people have a house, 2 cars, DVD's, cable TV,
That is funny, we wern't poor and we had 2 cars and a truck assigned by work, didn't have cable tv or internet and didn't have the latest nothing.

The bottom line is tax cuts free up money that increases business expenditures and increases hiring.
Really? Besides the fact that businesses arn't PEOPLE (which is what we were talking about taxing until you tryed to pull a fast one), tax cuts free up money that businesses use to pay management, everyone else is cannon fodder.
Unfortunately opening the immigration gates and unchecked out sourcing negate the benefit which is Mr Bush's greatest failing of all. Unfortunately it is almost unmentioned because our liberal politicians mistakenly think that more illegal aliens will help them get elected. Neither side yet realizes that whichever side closes the borders will now win hands down.
Oh really, the LIBERALs want more illegal aliens, and better yet, they want them because they think the aliens will help them get elected? Now some politicians are slow, but not that slow. I see some one doesn't understand the concept of illegal alien, THEY CAN'T VOTE UNLESS THEY ARE CITIZENS. However, Bush (RIGHTWING) wants to set up a program that encourages immigration and aids them in gaining citizinship, ie encourages them to vote conservative.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040810-123433-8727r.htm


No welfare. We have welfare, but now it is limited. You can no longer make welfare you lifetime employment here. They will get you a job.
Great, move on.


Growing gap between rich and poor. That is a much abused statistic but as an economy grows the upper and middle classes expand while the number of poor goes down with slower growth in their rate of income, thanks again to the open floodgate of illegal aliens.
*cough scape goat cough*
Always the illegal aliens eh? I bet you voted for Bush to stop them, I laugh at you


Minimal public services- This can be good or bad depending on the type of service. Any deregulation that allows control for resources from below the ground to the end users connection is bad! It is all about competition, if a service can be deregulated with an amount of competition then by all means it is great, but if you are deregulating monopolies then there is something rotten in denmark to coin the phrase. Case example in the US. Gas Service deregulation has been a disaster. Gas companies now own the gas from the ground all the way to the end users furnace. That is horrible because no one can choose another gas company in most places.
Again I just laugh at this because it is the right wing that supports giving monopolies and big industry more leash because they are slipping dollar bills into the right pockets, but of course you notice he doesn't mention who supports this kind of thing so as to prevent villification of anyone but liberals.

Overall however it is generally safe to say that in the long run if it is good for business and there is competition, it is good for everyone,
What is good for business is not always what is good for people themselves.

MAKE IT STRICTLY ILLEGAL FOR ANY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE TO RECIEVE EVEN A DIME FROM A CORPORTAION UNDER PENATLY OF INCARCERATION FOR BOTH THE EMPLOYEE AND CEO! and MAKE LOBBYING ILLEGAL!
damn straight


Now for the kicker, OTHER nations are not filled with self-absorbed, self-righteous assholes who ONLY care about themselves and other people be damned like America is, and they might WANT social programs to help peoples quality of living instead of pretending companies actually give two shits about the individual

I don' wanna leave....


Roll on the next election!

It's a long story. It mainly has to do with people buying houses they can't really afford, followed by Howard running around and proclaiming "Labour's gonna raise interest rates! Labour's gonna raise interest rates!"
Which is ridiculous, but try someone here who has a basic understanding of those things.

That doesn't sound plausible. Did the Labour candidates suck?

That doesn't sound plausible. Did the Labour candidates suck?
Yes, the guy has manboobs.
Nonetheless, interest rates were the prime reason for people to vote one way or the other, believe it or not.
Aussies are strange people, they are.

Now for the kicker, OTHER nations are not filled with self-absorbed, self-righteous assholes who ONLY care about themselves and other people be damned like America is, and they might WANT social programs to help peoples quality of living instead of pretending companies actually give two shits about the individual[/QUOTE]

Yes, other nations are filled with self-righteous assholes who ONLY care about themselves and other people be damened. In fact all other nations are filled with such people and in those nations they usually become politicians controlling social programs that pass out just enough benefit to keep people completely dependent on them, and under their thumb. I find it much better to teach and allow people to succeed on their own. If we do that, there is no need for the multitude of substandard social programs that arise from politicians seeking to control people.
I feel I need to make something clear here. I am not the least against immigration. It is a tremendous key to our success as a nation, however, the uncontrolled flow of illgeal immigration has placed a strain on our system that can benefit only big business, and causes harm to every single other facet of our existence. If the flow of immigrants coming in is not kept in proportion to growth absolutely everyone will suffer in the end. Including the illegals.
I also would like you to know i am not a republican, so when you thought you were attacking one you were mistaken. I was a liberal democrat for 30 years until they became so dishonest and disassociated with the average american people that it was too much of an embarressment to stay.
My voting options now are simply to choose the least bad of the two choices.