NationStates Jolt Archive

Erm...the title explains itself really...

Ok, I'm sorry. It's just it's 11:00 at night and mein brain is a bit...broken...

So, do that debating thing you guys do...

*falls asleep*

I think it would be cool for Europe to be all one big country...

But I think it will wreck foriegn relations, and create wars...

Not for now. I mean, who else is there?
Romania, Bulgaria and all of those...Hmm, I guess, but this time we need proper criteria. We can't take them in in batches.
Balkans? Only if they can get their sorry nationalism and race-scientists under control. All sides, not just the Serbs.
Turkey? Maybe much later, when they have modernised further, and we've worked out a new agricultural policy.

Not going to hold my breath. dont think the lot of you can agree for long enough to make it work. Good luck!

Because Estonia has so much to contribute to the world...

Not going to hold my breath. dont think the lot of you can agree for long enough to make it work. Good luck!
Thanks, but we can certainly do without your nagging, my American friend.
I just hope that if we ever start bashing each other again, you'll keep your aspirations in check and leave us alone.

Because Estonia has so much to contribute to the world...

What's your problem with Estonia? Estonia has just as much to contribute as any other nation on this planet, including the US.

Because Estonia has so much to contribute to the world...

I'm sick of these Anti-estonian hate factions! Estonians are a clean, loving, godlike people!

[/end fake umbrage] :rolleyes:

bump

EU really shouldn't keep expanding. I mean, they're seriously considering that Romania should join it?! I mean, this country is POOR. And let's face it, the romans in that country are being treated worse than other citizens. I don't support Bulgaria's membership either. Or Turkey's. For god's sake, that country is 95% in Asia! What next, will Canada join the EU?!

I really hope that EU would go into an even deeper crisis... and this nonsense would be stopped. I can see that some people are wishing that the United States of Europe (or something like that) would be created, but this isn't America and I don't believe something like that is even possible, mostly for cultural reasons. Hopefully this joke, European Union, will end.

-

Hey, what's wrong with Estonians? I like them. Yay for Fenno-Ugric tribes!

I think the EU should take a break frome expanding for now and solve it's internal problems. Besides, neither Bulgaria nor Romania are ready to join the EU yet, let alone Turkey (plus Turkey is not exactly a European country, either). I'd say let's see how things develop.

Regarding the question about the existence of the EU itself, I say we should keep it. Europe needs to be an economic superpower that can act as a counter-balance in the world against both China and the US.

Given the way the proposed constitution was defeated, I think the EU should hold off on more expansion plans and concentrate on drafting a new constitution that will get passed.

I think the EU should take a break frome expanding for now and solve it's internal problems. Besides, neither Bulgaria nor Romania are ready to join the EU yet, let alone Turkey (plus Turkey is not exactly a European country, either). I'd say let's see how things develop.

Regarding the question about the existence of the EU itself, I say we should keep it. Europe needs to be an economic superpower that can act as a counter-balance in the world against both China and the US.

Yeah you guys are having a big immigration problem as it is, mabye the EU could consider remaining European.

I think it WILL keep expanding in the future.
But its priority should be to focus on becoming a united federal Union first of all. There are a number of internal conflicts, none of them strong enough to break the EU, but all of them together definitely deterring enough to make actions of the EU as a body very difficult and slow.

Because Estonia has so much to contribute to the world...

Clearly, you have never eaten at the Hansa House (I believe that was the name) restaurant in Tallinn. Oh, the yumminess...

:p

Because Estonia has so much to contribute to the world...
They do. Not long ago there was an article in Time magazine about Europe's lost treasures. Tallinn is one of the hottest places to party. Having said that Tallinn is very different to the rest of Estonia. It's cheap, it's beautiful, it's full of nice restaurants -and drunken English and Finnish boozetourists..

@Pohjoisvalta
Romania will become member in near future, just like Bulgaria and Croatia. I agree that their economy is not strong enough and there are serious problems with basic human rights. But has it stopped EU from expanding before? nope. IMO EU could expand further but it should take smaller, steadier steps. New members should have at least a short history of doing alright (=reforms already made and the society is functioning properly). They are not ready yet but I believe that one day they will be ready and then EU should welcome new members (if they still want to join)

I'm against the idea of United States of Europe and believe that only few politicians want anything like that. EU is 90% about business and that's it.

I want the EU to continue expanding (why call it European if we exclude other European countries) but we need to consolidate what we have first. The two approaches to EU development are "broadening" and "deepening". Broadening seeks to increase the membership as its primary goal (that doesn't mean accepting countries blindly, it means partnerships with countries and a process of modernization in those countries until they meet (individual) criterea). Deepening seeks to increase the aspect of the European identity and strengthening the role of the European Union in national politics. I feel we've had too little deepening of late and that resulted in the split on Iraq as well as the "no" votes in the Netherlands and France.

Erm...the title explains itself really...

Ok, I'm sorry. It's just it's 11:00 at night and mein brain is a bit...broken...

So, do that debating thing you guys do...

*falls asleep*

I think it would be interesting if the EU expanded beyond the EU; allowed countries beyond the EU to join, and adopt the currency; create a gigantic, huge market that would rival the US; something based upon a loose confederation with each state being semti-autonomous; kind alike a "one china, two systems" minus the interferring in other countries.

Yeah you guys are having a big immigration problem as it is, mabye the EU could consider remaining European.

Are we? :confused:
The EU as a whole or particular countries?

I don't think the EU should continue to expand.

Certainly not for at least another decade. Personally, I felt the last 10 countries were let in too quickly. And they definately should have been fased in one at a time.

The EU is in crisis, many people simply don't want it, and almost nobody but a few Eurocrats wants Turkey in the Union.

I don't think the EU should continue to expand.

Certainly not for at least another decade. Personally, I felt the last 10 countries were let in too quickly. And they definately should have been fased in one at a time.

The EU is in crisis, many people simply don't want it, and almost nobody but a few Eurocrats wants Turkey in the Union.

I don't really understand the problem if Turkey joins as long as it meets the requirements of the EU, it means we have 72 million more people the west of Europe can exploit

I don't really understand the problem if Turkey joins as long as it meets the requirements of the EU, it means we have 72 million more people the west of Europe can exploit

The problem is that we couldn't effort it as of now. Plus, the point is really Turkey doesn't meet the requirements, plus all the dubious questions in regard for human rights, the situation of the Kurds, and their attempts of white-washing their history in respect for the genocide upon the Armenians... it's really embarassing.

Also, with it's large population, Turkey would have significant power within the EU, and I find the idea of Europe being dominated from the Middle East very unsettling.

The problem is that we couldn't effort it as of now. Plus, the point is really Turkey doesn't meet the requirements, plus all the dubious questions in regard for human rights, the situation of the Kurds, and their attempts of white-washing their history in respect for the genocide upon the Armenians... it's really embarassing.

Also, with it's large population, Turkey would have significant power within the EU, and I find the idea of Europe being dominated from the Middle East very unsettling.

This will have to be looked at I agree but from what i hear in the negotiations, these are the sort of things being looked at by the EU.

For a start Europe won't be "dominated" from the middle east.
Why does it disturb you?

Yes. This is one of the necessary steps that will lead to Earth finally peacefully becoming only one big country.

For a start Europe won't be "dominated" from the middle east.
Why does it disturb you?

Because the last thing Europe needs now is a conflict on the continent with yet another mindless totalitarian ideology (read: Islamic Fundamentalism).

Because the last thing Europe needs now is a conflict on the continent with yet another mindless totalitarian ideology (read: Islamic Fundamentalism).

Right now I know why it disturbs you, don't agree with it but hey.

Now how will it be "dominated"?

Turkey's human rights record is disgusting, and nobody mentions that while Saddam was persecuting the Kurds, Turkey was doing the same from their side of the border. Perhaps not gassing, but killing all the same.

Their human rights is appalling in certain areas, just watch Midnight Express. It's still relevant.

Romania too, has problems, that need to be sorted.

There is the arguement that reform could come of these countries after they have joined, but I feel there should be steps for reform before they join.

The problem with Turkey for me is their human rights record but also this feeling that the EU wants them in to stop them from becoming a severe Islamic state and want them to join before such a thing happens.

Compound this with the US telling the EU that Turkey should be in the EU, which would be equivalent to the EU telling the US that Mexico should join the US, there is something fishy about it.

For me, it's not about Turkey being a nation of predominantly Islam, but their human rights record. Their police are OTT in confronting protests too.

Can Europe work?

I think it's a shame that Chirac and Blair have both fallen back on nationalist boundaries in their disagreements, which I think is a distraction created by Chirac to show the French people that he can stand up for France's national interest in Europe after the 'Non' vote on the constitution, and a distraction created by Blair to show the British people that he can stand up for British national interest in Europe in the face of fierce skepticism from British people who feel they are losing sovereignty because of the EU and have no voice.

It's showboating for their citizens, and it's pathetic nationalist shouting that should have no room in an EU that is co-operative.

A French journalist on BBC's Question Time last week was Anti-British at the same time a British journalist was Anti-French, and it's depressing, because as Europeans we should be united as brothers and sisters, debating in a intelligent way rather than fall back on nationalist ill-mannered slanging matches.

Americans can gloat and sit smugly watching this happen, but rather than doing this, perhaps they should turn their attention to their debacle of a government system which has treated the rest of the world with utter disregard in terms of it's safety in geopolitical, enviromental, and human rights concerns.

Right now I know why it disturbs you, don't agree with it but hey.

Now how will it be "dominated"?
Turkey would have about as much power as Germany has. They could stop every reform, they could change the course of EU. There's enough problems with France, Germany and UK already. I don't want a 4th "superpower" arguing about everything.

edit: I'm not against Turkey's membership. But not with current system.

Turkey's human rights record is disgusting, and nobody mentions that while Saddam was persecuting the Kurds, Turkey was doing the same from their side of the border. Perhaps not gassing, but killing all the same.
Their human rights is appalling in certain areas, just watch Midnight Express. It's still relevant.
Romania too, has problems, that need to be sorted.
There is the arguement that reform could come of these countries after they have joined, but I feel there should be steps for reform before they join.
The problem with Turkey for me is their human rights record but also this feeling that the EU wants them in to stop them from becoming a severe Islamic state and want them to join before such a thing happens.


The negotiations with Turkey have already brought this up and Turkey WILL have to reform before it joins. This includes prison reform.
I don't get the point of Midnight Express really but thats a different matter.
A bigger reason for the delay of Turkey joining is we need to align the acession countries economies before we can take another country. Aswel as Turkey boosting its economy to get closer to the EU countries mainly because compared to the EU they arn't the best of states.

I think Turkey's religious demographics would help the EU greatly and I think the inclusion of Turkey could be a good thing once the issues mentioned here are sorted. Remember EU countries have brutalised people aswel.

Turkey would have about as much power as Germany has. They could stop every reform, they could change the course of EU. There's enough problems with France, Germany and UK already. I don't want a 4th "superpower" arguing about everything.

edit: I'm not against Turkey's membership. But not with current system.

Thats why the EU needs majority voting which will be a reality soon

Because Estonia has so much to contribute to the world...

Every nation has something to give to the rest of the world.

Insofar as the EU is concerned, I don't think it is going to take off right away, but if the peoples of Europe keep things going like they are, they might make something of it eventually.

~ Romandeos.

Turkey would have about as much power as Germany has. They could stop every reform, they could change the course of EU. There's enough problems with France, Germany and UK already. I don't want a 4th "superpower" arguing about everything.

Exactly, very well said.

edit: I'm not against Turkey's membership. But not with current system.

Well, from my side, 25 or 30 years would be realistic.

EDIT: Another issue that should be resolved before is how to efficiently battle smuggling of drugs and illegal immigration, since both are connected with Turkey's geographic situation.

Exactly, very well said.
Well, from my side, 25 or 30 years would be realistic.

Any amount of money says that they will join in 2008 at the earliest and 2015 at the very latest

Any amount of money says that they will join in 2008 at the earliest and 2015 at the very latest

Either is unrealistic. The EU would be overburdened.

EDIT: you seem to be interested in seeing the EU going downhill. Why is that? :confused:

Either is unrealistic. The EU would be overburdened.

EDIT: you seem to be interested in seeing the EU going downhill. Why is that? :confused:

Its not me saying this its when the EU are going to review Turkey's joining.
You don't know what I'm interested in and don't assume you do. I don't especially see it as a problem as long as the human rights ect get sorted and we get a decent system for 25 member states to make decisions

My personal opinion is that the European Union shall fail, or at the very least is not going to work as planned. I could be wrong, but let's just wait and see.

Thats why the EU needs majority voting which will be a reality soon
I'm not too happy with that solution either. That way small northern European countries would lose all remaining power. EU needs to remember that what works in Italy or Spain or even in Germany (=majority) may not work in Finland, Sweden or Estonia. Our needs are very different. I'm afraid that no one would give a shit about Finland's problems. They don't give a shit now, but at least we have some methods left to oppose the most harmful reforms. Last week Netherlands proposed that Finland should triple (!) it's payment to EU. Without any reason. (oh yes, there was a reason: UK doesn't want to pay, lets make smaller countries pay for it then...)

Any amount of money says that they will join in 2008 at the earliest and 2015 at the very latest
Romania and Bulgaria 2008. Croatia +other Balkan countries few years after. Turkey in 2015 earliest.

I'm not too happy with that solution either. That way small northern European countries would lose all remaining power. EU needs to remember that what works in Italy or Spain or even in Germany (=majority) may not work in Finland, Sweden or Estonia. Our needs are very different. I'm afraid that no one would give a shit about Finland's problems. They don't give a shit now, but at least we have some methods left to oppose the most harmful reforms. Last week Netherlands proposed that Finland should triple (!) it's payment to EU. Without any reason. (oh yes, there was a reason: UK doesn't want to pay, lets make smaller countries pay for it then...)

The current system can not work though and I can't see a better way, if there was I'd be all for it :(

Its not me saying this its when the EU are going to review Turkey's joining.

Actually, they (=Prodi and the gang) have said that 2015 is the earliest possible year for Turkey to join. They haven't even started to talk (officially) about it yet. By then Turkey would be the largest country in EU.

Got to have swiss...got to have swiss....got to have swiss

I don't like the idea of a federal superstate and I'd sooner Europe just be a big trading block. So I'd rather the EU expand, that way it's far harder to deepen integration. That said I don't think Turkey should be let in under any circumstances, the cultural differences are too vast.

I don't like the idea of a federal superstate and I'd sooner Europe just be a big trading block. So I'd rather the EU expand, that way it's far harder to deepen integration. That said I don't think Turkey should be let in under any circumstances, the cultural differences are too vast.

I still don't see why thats a problem if the EU is just a trading block. What will the EU be like then might affect my decision. Cultural differences arn't always a bad thing within a group.

I still don't see why thats a problem if the EU is just a trading block. What will the EU be like then might affect my decision. Cultural differences arn't always a bad thing within a group.
They are when there's free movement of people across Europe.

They are when there's free movement of people across Europe.
I'm sorry I don't want to make assumptions so what do you mean?

I'm sorry I don't want to make assumptions so what do you mean?
Basically I don't think that it would be a good idea to let a muslim country in when their people have free movement of immigration. The cultural differences cause all sorts of problems.

Basically I don't think that it would be a good idea a muslim country in when their people have free movement of immigration. The cultural differences cause all sorts of problems.

Germany seem to cope, as do the UK so I don't see the problem really

Are we? :confused:
The EU as a whole or particular countries?



Well, the largest economies do, and i have a feeling that will have an impact.

Well, the largest economies do, and i have a feeling that will have an impact.

What are you basing this on?

Germany seem to cope, as do the UK so I don't see the problem really
Yeah well sorry if I don't think that we're living in some lovely multicultural paradise. I used to live in Burnley, where it looks like something out of the Balkans. You may have heard about it from the recent race riots. It's been the same in Bradford, Oldham and to a lesser extent in Wrexham. I don't want any more immigration because this is what it will end up bringing us. Letting Turkey in would result in far more immigration to the UK.

Germany seem to cope, as do the UK so I don't see the problem really


Do you know how much money walks accross the border, tax-free, everyday in the US. Just keep it up and Europe will have some real problems in the future.

Yeah well sorry if I don't think that we're living in some lovely multicultural paradise. I used to live in Burnley, where it looks like something out of the Balkans. You may have heard about it from the recent race riots. It's been the same in Bradford, Oldham and to a lesser extent in Wrexham. I want any more immigration because this is what it will end up bringing us. Letting Turkey in would result in far more immigration to the UK.
we already let Turkish people into the UK. London is something like the third biggest population of Turkish people outside Turkey.
I know I've seen what its like in Burnley, thats not their fault though. Its ours, we are the ones that can't look past the colour of someones skin so why should we punish people who for some reason still want to come here?

Do you know how much money walks accross the border, tax-free, everyday in the US. Just keep it up and Europe will have some real problems in the future.

No I don't, do you?

Absolutely no chance. Why should we pay for motorways in Lithuania and toilets in Spain whilst our own country falls apart. Anybody been on a train or the M6 recently?

How's about the UK leaves the EU all together and uses the billions that we contribute (net) each year to pay for our own roads, schools, hospitals, pensions, police, universities.........

Absolutely no chance. Why should we pay for motorways in Lithuania and toilets in Spain whilst our own country falls apart. Anybody been on a train or the M6 recently?

How's about the UK leaves the EU all together and uses the billions that we contribute (net) each year to pay for our own roads, schools, hospitals, pensions, police, universities.........
:rolleyes:

we already let Turkish people into the UK. London is something like the third biggest population of Turkish people outside Turkey.
I know I've seen what its like in Burnley, thats not their fault though. Its ours, we are the ones that can't look past the colour of someones skin so why should we punish people who for some reason still want to come here?
Oh yes, typically it's all our fault. It's our fault that they go on a destructive rampage like a load of wild animals. Typically they're always unwilling to assimilate. They never want anything to do with us, then they whine when we don't want anything to do with them. Also, London's a complete dump (Economically and culturally) and the last thing I want is to live in a place like that.

To me the rights and wrong, the causes of the race riots are irrelevant. If we didn't let them in these problems wouldn't exist.

What are you basing this on?

The Washing Post

The End of Europe

By Robert J. Samuelson

Wednesday, June 15, 2005; Page A25

It's hard to be a great power if your population is shriveling. Europe's birthrates have dropped well below the replacement rate of 2.1 children for each woman of childbearing age. For Western Europe as a whole, the rate is 1.5. It's 1.4 in Germany and 1.3 in Italy. In a century -- if these rates continue -- there won't be many Germans in Germany or Italians in Italy. Even assuming some increase in birthrates and continued immigration, Western Europe's population grows dramatically grayer, projects the U.S. Census Bureau. Now about one-sixth of the population is 65 and older. By 2030 that would be one-fourth, and by 2050 almost one-third.

Wherever they look, Western Europeans feel their way of life threatened. One solution to low birthrates is higher immigration. But many Europeans don't like the immigrants they have -- often Muslim from North Africa -- and don't want more. One way to revive economic growth would be to reduce social benefits, taxes and regulations. But that would imperil Europe's "social model," which supposedly blends capitalism's efficiency and socialism's compassion.

Well this is just one source. And just wait till those immigrants start having kids, bye bye Europeans.

The Washing Post

The End of Europe

By Robert J. Samuelson

Wednesday, June 15, 2005; Page A25

It's hard to be a great power if your population is shriveling. Europe's birthrates have dropped well below the replacement rate of 2.1 children for each woman of childbearing age. For Western Europe as a whole, the rate is 1.5. It's 1.4 in Germany and 1.3 in Italy. In a century -- if these rates continue -- there won't be many Germans in Germany or Italians in Italy. Even assuming some increase in birthrates and continued immigration, Western Europe's population grows dramatically grayer, projects the U.S. Census Bureau. Now about one-sixth of the population is 65 and older. By 2030 that would be one-fourth, and by 2050 almost one-third.

Wherever they look, Western Europeans feel their way of life threatened. One solution to low birthrates is higher immigration. But many Europeans don't like the immigrants they have -- often Muslim from North Africa -- and don't want more. One way to revive economic growth would be to reduce social benefits, taxes and regulations. But that would imperil Europe's "social model," which supposedly blends capitalism's efficiency and socialism's compassion.

Well this is just one source. And just wait till those immigrants start having kids, bye bye Europeans.

To be fair I couldn't care less, Oh no we are not naturally European. Oh the horror :rolleyes:. The Last Europeans will be in America before they overtake you !!!!! :eek:

Oh yes, typically it's all our fault. It's our fault that they go on a destructive rampage like a load of wild animals. Typically they're always unwilling to assimilate. They never want anything to do with us, then they whine when we don't want anything to do with them. Also, London's a complete dump (Economically and culturally) and the last thing I want is to live in a place like that.

To me the rights and wrong, the causes of the race riots are irrelevant. If we didn't let them in these problems wouldn't exist.

So why do they go on a "destructive rampage"?
Is it because they get racially abused?
Maybe its because they get Bricks through their windows on a regular basis?
And maybe it looks like no one seems to care.

Are you supprised they want anything to do with you? You have Idiots like Nick Griffin saying they are savages and that they need to be sent home.
To be fair you complained that Burnley was "like the Balkans" so I know London is better than that

No I don't, do you?


Look at the school system in California, one of the largest economies in the world, and they have one of the worst school systems in the US. All the while illegal immigrants are sending the money they make back to mexico while their children, (whom dont speak english most of the time and require spanish speaking teachers) are taking up school resources paid for by citizens.

Look at the school system in California, one of the largest economies in the world, and they have one of the worst school systems in the US. All the while illegal immigrants are sending the money they make back to mexico while their children, (whom dont speak english most of the time and require spanish speaking teachers) are taking up school resources paid for by citizens.

But these children are American yes? And the money was earned so therefore they can do with it what they will?
Remember you have money coming into the country aswel.

[QUOTE=Gataway_Driver]But these children are American yes? And the money was earned so therefore they can do with it what they will?
Remember you have money coming into the country aswel.[/QUOTE

No, they arent American and their parents dont pay taxes some of which would go to pay for their schooling, but I do. Also their are alot of social assistance programs that they exploit, also paid for by Americans. Needless to say I dont care for Californias system. :)

No, they arent American and their parents dont pay taxes some of which would go to pay for their schooling, but I do. Also their are alot of social assistance programs that they exploit, also paid for by Americans. Needless to say I dont care for Californias system. :)

Ah then I understand your problem, This isn't a major thing in the UK as we are an island :)

Ah then I understand your problem, This isn't a major thing in the UK as we are an island :)

If its not a major thing then why was it the main issue all election?

If its not a major thing then why was it the main issue all election?

because its the only thing the tories could specifically say they were different than Labour.

EDIT: I was refering specifically to the problem in California

This is fun, dont get me wrong, I am all for immigration as long as it is regulated. Please move to the US, make money, pay our puny taxes, educate your kids, blend into the melting pot, and PLEASE, LEARN ENGLISH (this is a real problem), just do it in the given channels, I mean its not that hard.

Erm...the title explains itself really...

Ok, I'm sorry. It's just it's 11:00 at night and mein brain is a bit...broken...

So, do that debating thing you guys do...

*falls asleep*

The EU is unnaccountable and run by elites who couldn't care less what nations of people think, but they most likely see it as one-nation in the future so what's it to them? A waste of time and money. It's bad enough having domestic politicians fuck things up as well as unaccountable foreign politicians. The constitution is unreadable and complicated at 300-400 pages long, certainly no US constitution. Most of it concerns the "social model", i.e. France getting shit loads of subsidies. Eastern Europe getting lots of free money. Hardly freetrade, not exactly making Europe prosper with investment. It's just going to stagnate. Plus its inability to solve conflict with politicians is weak, thank God. Culturally though Europe is not the same, they want to promote "Europeaness", and us as one people. The UK is a union of 4 countries and just look at what problems that has caused, times that problem by 6 or 7.

If its not a major thing then why was it the main issue all election?

. . That is absolute crap. Immigration was higher up the list than the EU and the Iraq War issue, also crime, health etc. The EU wasn't even mentioned, we still have hardly seen any serious debates on the issue, or any constitutional issues for that matter. Ie. regionalisation, devolution for England, the EU, House of Lords, electoral reform.

. . That is absolute crap. Immigration was higher up the list than the EU and the Iraq War issue, also crime, health etc. The EU wasn't even mentioned, we still have hardly seen any serious debates on the issue, or any constitutional issues for that matter. Ie. regionalisation, devolution for England, the EU, House of Lords, electoral reform.

They were talking about Immigration ;)

Europe needs to be an economic superpower that can act as a counter-balance in the world against both China and the US.

Except already the EU has shown that it can't compete economically. It's too regulated. And the French will die before accepting "Anglo-Saxon" reforms.

Culturally though Europe is not the same, they want to promote "Europeaness", and us as one people. The UK is a union of 4 countries and just look at what problems that has caused, times that problem by 6 or 7.



I certainly hope you are not trying to equate the democratic and voluntary union of European states with the forced conquest and colonisation of Wales, Scotland and Ireland....

As far as i know, the union of European states didn't kill anyone in the process, something that cannot be said for the establishment of the Uk.

I think it would be interesting if the EU expanded beyond the EU; allowed countries beyond the EU to join, and adopt the currency; create a gigantic, huge market that would rival the US; something based upon a loose confederation with each state being semti-autonomous; kind alike a "one china, two systems" minus the interferring in other countries.

Politicians, from Belgium mainly have talked about wanting to expand to N. Africa.

I guess that solves the immigration problem, they wont have to migrate when we ship our money over.

Birth rates are falling, but why is that a bad thing? Part of being a developing nation, getting a balanced birthrate. Not overpopulating the country, which the UK already is. And plus I'd hate to give that fat fuck Prescott more chance to bulldoze the South East and East of England.

I certainly hope you are not trying to equate the democratic and voluntary union of European states with the forced conquest and colonisation of Wales, Scotland and Ireland....

As far as i know, the union of European states didn't kill anyone in the process, something that cannot be said for the establishment of the Uk.

Voluntary? How many countries who ratified the constitution held a referendum?

And yes I am. The English and Scots and Welsh don't see themselves as the same. For a Union as large as the EU to try and say all Europeans are is crap, one nation would never work. Voluntary or not.

And I'm not really educated on how the Act of Union came about. I know there was a Scottish King James the 2nd who left at 1701, didn't he create the union jack so that he could claim the Scots and English were as one (probably to stop him being overthrown)? The Welsh maybe, but I didn't think the Scots were colonised at that time. I thought their politicians voluntarily passed legislation to create this "united" Kingdom.

I'm against the idea of United States of Europe and believe that only few politicians want anything like that. EU is 90% about business and that's it.

Yeh, about regulating business.

I think that the Churchill idea of a "United States of Europe" is a good idea, not only to balance the original United States in terms of military and political power, but there's a strong need to bring balance to the stupidity on this planet. I feel that the Europeans can make a strong contribution here, as they provided most of the original settlers in the United States.

it's depressing, because as Europeans we should be united as brothers and sisters, debating in a intelligent way rather than fall back on nationalist ill-mannered slanging matches.


Why? As humans we should be united as brothers and sisters, but we aren't.

Voluntary? How many countries who ratified the constitution held a referendum?

And yes I am. The English and Scots and Welsh don't see themselves as the same. For a Union as large as the EU to try and say all Europeans are is crap, one nation would never work. Voluntary or not.

And I'm not really educated on how the Act of Union came about. I know there was a Scottish King James the 2nd who left at 1701, didn't he create the union jack so that he could claim the Scots and English were as one (probably to stop him being overthrown)? The Welsh maybe, but I didn't think the Scots were colonised at that time. I thought their politicians voluntarily passed legislation to create this "united" Kingdom.


No.... thats... all wrong. i'm talking about the union of European States (ie the origins of the EEC and its evolution into the modern EU today) not the constitution, i never mentioned that at all.

I don't think having Europe see itself as one is the ultimate goal, one nation is not the ultimate goal- it could never happen. You can be [Insert Country here] and European at the same time.

Then i suggest you read up on the act of Union. It was not a happy time any BUT the English at that era. The Welsh were colonised and conquered after a long hard fought campaign, the Scots were constantly impinged upon by the English Crown, ironically it wass the Stuarts who united the 2 countries after Elizabeth died but to the dismay of the Scottish people, and the Irish were beaten and bloodied for centuries also, plantations and colonies and the occasional purge.

So yes, comparing the Union of European states to the Union of the UK is not a good argument ;)

Yeh, about regulating business.
Well...it has done wonders to European companies. Instead of 25 different regulations there is only one now.

I still don't see why thats a problem if the EU is just a trading block. What will the EU be like then might affect my decision. Cultural differences arn't always a bad thing within a group.

It stopped being a just trading block ages ago.

Birth rates are falling, but why is that a bad thing?
I want an answer to this one too. Of course increasing number of pensioners will cause economic problems. But it seems to me that some think that decreasing population is somehow generally bad for a country. Why?

Well...it has done wonders to European companies. Instead of 25 different regulations there is only one now.

Assuming all European companies are multinational?

So yes, comparing the Union of European states to the Union of the UK is not a good argument ;)

Why? My point is that we see ourselves as different, no matter how many times politicians say we are all European, or over here British, and united, and can be stronger together.

It stopped being a just trading block ages ago.
1973?

Germany seem to cope, as do the UK so I don't see the problem really

Maybe a flaw with these one-siza fits all policies then.

What about Holland?

And Germans have the NDP (?) gaining votes, because of Russians and Turks (as one reason).

Keep expanding and change the name to Euroasian Union while we're at it.

Assuming all European companies are multinational?
Of course they arent. But UK's biggest trading partners are in EU (I don't know really, that's true for most members) no customs etc. It's not only about regulations, the most important thing is more open and wider markets. I don't think EU has any significant effect on small local companies.

Euro has also helped many companies but also done some damage to others. Mainly for those who trade in dollars or whose biggest partners are North American (e.g. Finnish forest and paper industry)

we already let Turkish people into the UK. London is something like the third biggest population of Turkish people outside Turkey.
I know I've seen what its like in Burnley, thats not their fault though. Its ours, we are the ones that can't look past the colour of someones skin so why should we punish people who for some reason still want to come here?

Because the Turks are great fans of the English anyways and would never do anything out of spite. Especially when integration is someone what a bit of a problem. Trevor Phillips always randomly comes out with his uninspiring comments. Mass immigration, poor distribution, ethnic communities build and divide themselves. Ghettos.

Maybe a flaw with these one-siza fits all policies then.

What about Holland?

And Germans have the NDP (?) gaining votes, because of Russians and Turks (as one reason).
Russians? Are there really that many Russians in Germany?

Because the Turks are great fans of the English anyways and would never do anything out of spite. Especially when integration is someone what a bit of a problem. Trevor Phillips always randomly comes out with his uninspiring comments. Mass immigration, poor distribution, ethnic communities build and divide themselves. Ghettos.

I guess the British and the Turks have gotten over Gallipoli, eh?

I don't think EU has any significant effect on small local companies.


What about the Working Time Directive?

Russians? Are there really that many Russians in Germany?

Well the Soviet Union occupied East Germany for quite a while. A lot of Germans would rather have the Berlin wall rebuilt I read in a poll from a newspaper. But then it's just a poll.

So why do they go on a "destructive rampage"?


So you are justifying race riots when they are started by minorities?

1973?
EEC 1957 -> EC 1967 -> EU 1993
EFTA 1960 -> free trade contract with EC since 1973

I think EC was/is still only about economy.

More importantly than if the EU must expand, is if the people of the EU want the EU to expand. It is my perception that stiff resistances have arisen against further expansion (being one of the causes of the current wave of euroscepticism in Europe), and i believe that they must be dealt with before any expansion occurrs. In other words, expand, but not now.

Yes. But no Turkey. As for Romania and Bulgaria. They should join. But not right now. Let's see where they are in about 10 years. Even mr. Expansion Günther "Gollem" Verheugen finally opens his insanely big eyes and admitts that we should slow down.

What about the Working Time Directive?
I don't really know enough about it because our laws are already much tighter than the directive.

And Germans have the NDP (?) gaining votes, because of Russians and Turks (as one reason).
It's NPD, and they're not gaining votes. Some crackheads in Saxony voted them into a state parliament, out of spite. No one actually agrees with them other than Skinheads.
Actually there is an ongoing debate about banning the party. I wanna see that happen in the Netherlands or in Britain (no idea how their crackpot Nazi-Party is called)

Russians? Are there really that many Russians in Germany?
It's a long story. There used to be Germans living along the Volga in the Czar's times. Then the wars and the soviets came and those Germans had it tough. Now the Federal Republic has declared that the kids and relatives of those Volga Germans can come "home". And now some towns are full of "Russia-Germans", who at some point may have had an aunt who was married to a German, but don't speak the language and so on.
I reckon they should've been integrated better. All that happened now is that they created animosity, and apparently the Russian Mafia is everywhere now (though you have to take that one with a pinch of salt)

Well the Soviet Union occupied East Germany for quite a while. A lot of Germans would rather have the Berlin wall rebuilt I read in a poll from a newspaper. But then it's just a poll. That's probably about east germany being a drag on the economy though.

Russians? Are there really that many Russians in Germany?
Yes there are.

I don't really know enough about it because our laws are already much tighter than the directive.


Offcourse they are. All EU directives are made im comparasing to the least demanding legislation of a EU country. In other words, for example, legislation regarding animal controls:

- Country A as a stiff Legislation
- Country B as mild legislation
- Country C as no legislation

A EU directive would be as stiff as the mild legislation (country B), though the country without it (country C) would have to apply it; Country A could either replicate the more mild legislation, or keep its stiff legislation.

It's NPD, and they're not gaining votes. Some crackheads in Saxony voted them into a state parliament, out of spite. No one actually agrees with them other than Skinheads.
Actually there is an ongoing debate about banning the party. I wanna see that happen in the Netherlands or in Britain (no idea how their crackpot Nazi-Party is called)

Britains nazi party is the BNP. They are gaining votes (I think). Not sure how they did in recent elections. Although it isn't just skinheads who vote for the BNP.

Oh yes, typically it's all our fault. It's our fault that they go on a destructive rampage like a load of wild animals. Typically they're always unwilling to assimilate. They never want anything to do with us, then they whine when we don't want anything to do with them. Also, London's a complete dump (Economically and culturally) and the last thing I want is to live in a place like that.

To me the rights and wrong, the causes of the race riots are irrelevant. If we didn't let them in these problems wouldn't exist.

Its funny and ironic that after centuries of countries like Britain and France going around conquering different people around the world,they get so pissed off when some of those prople follow them home

It's a long story. There used to be Germans living along the Volga in the Czar's times. Then the wars and the soviets came and those Germans had it tough. Now the Federal Republic has declared that the kids and relatives of those Volga Germans can come "home". And now some towns are full of "Russia-Germans", who at some point may have had an aunt who was married to a German, but don't speak the language and so on.
I reckon they should've been integrated better. All that happened now is that they created animosity, and apparently the Russian Mafia is everywhere now (though you have to take that one with a pinch of salt)
Oh. It's just the same around here. Some of them lived in areas which were part of Finland before WW2, some lived a bit further away but are still considered as Finnish tribes. Quite many of them fought on our side during WW2. We welcomed them too but forgot that they don't speak Finnish anymore.
There are a lot of Russians or Russian speaking people around where I live. But we don't have any problems with them. Fortunately. Some other towns haven't been as fortunate.
In general if you see a Russian in Finland he's either driving a truck very close to your car or he's a wealthy tourist. St. Petersburg is not too far away.

Its funny and ironic that after centuries of countries like Britain and France going around conquering different people around the world,they get so pissed off when some of those prople follow them home

And future generations are meant to be guilty for that?

You equate immigration to colonisation? That's interesting.

It's NPD, and they're not gaining votes. Some crackheads in Saxony voted them into a state parliament, out of spite. No one actually agrees with them other than Skinheads.
Actually there is an ongoing debate about banning the party. I wanna see that happen in the Netherlands or in Britain (no idea how their crackpot Nazi-Party is called)
I find it remarkebal that especially the SED, another party with a decades long history of murder and oppression, is so in favor of an NPD ban without anyone questioning them.


It's a long story. There used to be Germans living along the Volga in the Czar's times. Then the wars and the soviets came and those Germans had it tough.
Hahumm..if beeing deported from the Volga to Siberia and central Asia forbidden to speak their language and teach their tradititions officcially beeing 2nd rate citizens and never getting even an apology from Moskou let alone reparations because of the trumped up charges of treason can be considerd "tough".

Why? My point is that we see ourselves as different, no matter how many times politicians say we are all European, or over here British, and united, and can be stronger together.

Go back and READ what i said- you can be both British/French/German/Polish AND European at the same time- its not 'either or'.

We can be stronger together- economically at least. The better we get to know our neighbours results in xenophobia, racism, hatred and fear dissolving (albeit slowly).

The UK is a bad example because it originated via conquest, colonisation and death- the EU didn't.

Offcourse they are. All EU directives are made im comparasing to the least demanding legislation of a EU country...
Yes? Well thanks for sharing that to others. There might be someone who wasn't familiar with this.

There has been cases where we first loosened our legislations but noticed that it causes too much problems and went back to the old system.

What about Holland?

What about Holland?

So you are justifying race riots when they are started by minorities?

Of course not I want to know why it happens?
hence the question

Go back and READ what i said- you can be both British/French/German/Polish AND European at the same time- its not 'either or'.

We can be stronger together- economically at least. The better we get to know our neighbours results in xenophobia, racism, hatred and fear dissolving (albeit slowly).

The UK is a bad example because it originated via conquest, colonisation and death- the EU didn't.

Why does it matter how it originates, I don't believe the Dutch are the same as Russians or the Russians are the same as Italians. Ok so none of us geographically can help being labelled European anyways. I just believe these differences will cause more resentment when the EU becomes more centric (which I have a suspicion it will) and enlarges, trying to deeply integrate us as all the same. I could be wrong and the EU might not turn out like the UK, but whether its voluntary or not I don't think the same problems can be avoided.

What about Holland?

Just been reading that people are becomming a bit more Islamophobic over there. Suspicious of muslims. Fear that the Dutch will have less of a say as the EU expands.

Just been reading that people are becomming a bit more Islamophobic over there.
Well. Thats not realy suprising is it? But for the first time in decades the government can't just swipe it under the rug and cover the rest with the cloak of PC'ness and multi cultural love.:D

I find it remarkebal that especially the SED, another party with a decades long history of murder and oppression, is so in favor of an NPD ban without anyone questioning them.
The SED? That party doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't for some time.
So you either mean the PDS, which is fair enough, but communists and fascists never really liked each other.
Or you mean the SPD, in which case I take exception to the complete falsity of your statement.


Hahumm..if beeing deported from the Volga to Siberia and central Asia forbidden to speak their language and teach their tradititions officcially beeing 2nd rate citizens and never getting even an apology from Moskou let alone reparations because of the trumped up charges of treason can be considerd "tough".
I never said it wasn't. I'm just not one to become all that dramatic very easily.
-----
Sagen Sie Herr von Witzleben, sind Sie ein Rechter? Sie klingen nämlich wie einer.

And future generations are meant to be guilty for that?

You equate immigration to colonisation? That's interesting.

no not at all,its just funny how history works out.you should remember though,English people have been imigrants before,isnt that where the US came from?and if u read the history,you'l find the first settlers were respected and helped by the natives.so theres no harm in having a bit of understanding when foreigners arrive in your country.and dont get me wrong,i see ur point.ethnic diversity is definitly a good thing,but not if it one culture is undermining another.

The SED? That party doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't for some time.
So you either mean the PDS, which is fair enough, but communists and fascists never really liked each other.
Or you mean the SPD, in which case I take exception to the complete falsity of your statement.
PDS=SED.


Sagen Sie Herr von Witzleben, sind Sie ein Rechter? Sie klingen nämlich wie einer.
Und was wäre wenn? Und woran machen sie das fest? Weil ich die tragödie der Russland Deutschen nicht einfach mit "sie hatten es seitdem ein bisschen schwerer" abtue? Oder weil ich die PDS nicht mag?
Aber um ihre frage zu beantworten ich bin politisch flexibel. Ich lege mich nicht auf ein bestimmtes doktrin fest.

so theres no harm in having a bit of understanding when foreigners arrive in your country.and dont get me wrong,i see ur point.ethnic diversity is definitly a good thing,but not if it one culture is undermining another.

My point was that you pointed out an irony in history as if to sneer on peoples worry about their national identities, but used the cliche excuse that made immigration sound like the new colonisation. . Just found it a bit contradictory.

so theres no harm in having a bit of understanding when foreigners arrive in your country

I do understand why, a job, or a safe haven. Even though it's a bit funny that people manage (when fleeing their war torn country) to end up in the UK. An island the other side of Europe.

With economic migration though I just can't see how immigrants are our countries saviour due to a low birth rate and ageing population. I personally thought the UK had a slowly rising population even though birth rates were falling. If a country of 60 million can't support itself, when can it? I'm sure in 100 years the UK will end up like Hong Kong, full of highrise buildings. Immigrants grow old too, and have kids who also grow old. The same problems can occur in the future. It's more like displacement. The government though just comes out with the old cliches, the NHS, think of the NHS! Brushes the issue under the carpet. People get pissed off, well done BNP. Open door policy is ok, we are tolerant, they are just like us, not different at all, although don't offend the muslims, they're a bit vulnerable right now.

and dont get me wrong,i see ur point.ethnic diversity is definitly a good thing,but not if it one culture is undermining another.

Ethnic diversity isn't a problem if they integrate, if they don't integrate then with the levels of migration the native culture will be undermined and that is bad. Multiculturalism though isn't concerned, America had to invent some excuse that stopped them repatriating themselves.

-schnibbel-
Ich hab' nix mit der PDS am Hut. Von mir aus können Sie machen was Sie wollen. Aber wegen "Tragödie": Es gibt viele Tragödien und so ziemlich keiner dieser Leute lebt noch. Ich werde mich nicht auf the Pfad begeben, irgendwelche armen Flüchtlinge zu bedauern, weil das letztenendes nur zu Revisionismus führt, und doch nichts bringt. Und wenn wir den Krieg nicht verloren hätten, hätte ich eine Schokoladenfabrik geerbt, also wenn einer sich aufregen sollte, dann bin ich das.
Aber die NPD ist Dreck. So einfach ist das. Wer sich mit dem Pack abgibt, ist selber schuld. Nicht nur würde deren konzeptloser Populismus zu nichts führen, Nein die blamieren uns auch noch im Ausland.

Ich hab' nix mit der PDS am Hut. Von mir aus können Sie machen was Sie wollen. Aber wegen "Tragödie": Es gibt viele Tragödien und so ziemlich keiner dieser Leute lebt noch.
Soso. Aber deiner "Biste ein rechter hörst dich so an" reaktion so wie deinem wunsch das die NPD mal ebenso verboten wird kann man entnehmen das du zu denen gehörst die anderen immer den holocaust um die ohren haust.

Ich werde mich nicht auf the Pfad begeben, irgendwelche armen Flüchtlinge zu bedauern, weil das letztenendes nur zu Revisionismus führt, und doch nichts bringt.
Und zu denen die meinen das unrecht an Deutschen, die nun wirklich nichts damit zu tun hatten, gerechtfertigt ist weil es Deutsche sind und daher nichts ausmacht.


Aber die NPD ist Dreck. So einfach ist das. Wer sich mit dem Pack abgibt, ist selber schuld. Nicht nur würde deren konzeptloser Populismus zu nichts führen, Nein die blamieren uns auch noch im Ausland.
Die SED und etablierten sind meiner meinung nach kaum einen deut besser.
Propagieren wie trés chiqué es ist um links zu sein und alles was rechter als das zentrum ist ist der NPD und deren gesinnungsgenossen gleichzusetzen.

1. Soso....
2. Und...
3. Die SED...
1. Ich hau niemandem was an die Ohren. Ich wurde selbst von unseren Nachbarn und meinem Lehrer als Rechter klassifiziert, weil ich in einem Aufsatz in der 7. Klasse es gewagt hab, Anne Frank afür zu kritisieren dass sie zu viel Lärm gemacht hat.
Deutschland hat aber genug schlechte Erfahrungen mit rechten Populisten gemacht, und daher können wir die NPD nicht gebrauchen. Abgesehen davon das ich das gesagt hab um Deutschland zu verteidigen vor Leuten die uns nach wie vor mit Skepsis gegenüber stehen.
2. Ich gehöre zu denen die der Meinung sind der Bombenkrieg war ein Kriegsverbrechen (genau wie die NPD). Und trotzdem kann man so was nicht zur Politik erklären.
3. Ich kann die PDS nicht leiden. Hab ich doch schon mal gesagt. Ich wähle entweder SPD oder Grün. Mir ist es scheißegal wenn Leute Montagsdemos auffahren, weil es doch keine Alternative zur Agenda gibt. Wenn Leute jetzt plötzlich mit ihrem Hass aufs Establishment loslegen bloß weil sie der Meinung sind die Scheiße in der Deutschland drinsteckt sei die Schuld der Parteien.
Und rechts vom Zentrum geht mir immer gegen den Strich, ob wirtschaftlich oder sozial, auf Englisch oder auf Deutsch.

1. Ich hau niemandem was an die Ohren. Ich wurde selbst von unseren Nachbarn und meinem Lehrer als Rechter klassifiziert, weil ich in einem Aufsatz in der 7. Klasse es gewagt hab, Anne Frank afür zu kritisieren dass sie zu viel Lärm gemacht hat.
Deutschland hat aber genug schlechte Erfahrungen mit rechten Populisten gemacht, und daher können wir die NPD nicht gebrauchen. Abgesehen davon das ich das gesagt hab um Deutschland zu verteidigen vor Leuten die uns nach wie vor mit Skepsis gegenüber stehen.
2. Ich gehöre zu denen die der Meinung sind der Bombenkrieg war ein Kriegsverbrechen (genau wie die NPD). Und trotzdem kann man so was nicht zur Politik erklären.
3. Ich kann die PDS nicht leiden. Hab ich doch schon mal gesagt. Ich wähle entweder SPD oder Grün. Mir ist es scheißegal wenn Leute Montagsdemos auffahren, weil es doch keine Alternative zur Agenda gibt. Wenn Leute jetzt plötzlich mit ihrem Hass aufs Establishment loslegen bloß weil sie der Meinung sind die Scheiße in der Deutschland drinsteckt sei die Schuld der Parteien.
Und rechts vom Zentrum geht mir immer gegen den Strich, ob wirtschaftlich oder sozial, auf Englisch oder auf Deutsch.
1. Na fein. Ist mal erfrischend einen Deutschen in einem Englischsprachigen forum zu treffen das nicht stormfront(ähnlich) ist der nicht meint das er an erbsünde leiden muss.
2. Hier ging es nicht um den bombenkrieg, den ich ebenfalls als verbrechen werte, sondern um die Russland Deutschen.
3. Und wessen schuld ist es denn dann wenn nicht die der parteien? Die von CDU bis SPD jahrzehntelang sozial demokratische traumtänze vollführt haben. Und jetzt haben wir den salat. Wessen schuld ist es dann wenn nicht deren?

Und wessen schuld ist es denn dann wenn nicht die der parteien? Die von CDU bis SPD jahrzehntelang sozial demokratische traumtänze vollführt haben. Und jetzt haben wir den salat. Wessen schuld ist es dann wenn nicht deren?
Es ging doch alles gut bis zur Wende, oder? Die Mauer ist gefallen, und Kohl wollte alles schnell, schnell machen. Eine Ostmark war keine Westmark wert. Und letzten Endes war es doch vorherzusehen das wenn du ineffiziente Betriebe in den freien Wettbewerb wirfst, dann kommt nichts dabei raus.
Und dann ist da noch die Globalisierung, und die halt ich für noch einen größeren Einfluss. Firmen können sich jetzt aussuchen wo sie sein wollen. Und wenn bei uns eben nicht gekuscht wird, dann lassen sie uns stehen. Und da muss man eine Lösung für finden. Aber jetzt, in näherer Zukunft, müssen wir erstmal aufpassen dass das Land nicht völlig vor die Hunde geht. Und wenn das heißt ein paar Leute müssen länger arbeiten oder so, dann haben wir ja doch keine Wahl.

Es ging doch alles gut bis zur Wende, oder? Die Mauer ist gefallen, und Kohl wollte alles schnell, schnell machen. Eine Ostmark war keine Westmark wert. Und letzten Endes war es doch vorherzusehen das wenn du ineffiziente Betriebe in den freien Wettbewerb wirfst, dann kommt nichts dabei raus.
Und dann ist da noch die Globalisierung, und die halt ich für noch einen größeren Einfluss. Firmen können sich jetzt aussuchen wo sie sein wollen. Und wenn bei uns eben nicht gekuscht wird, dann lassen sie uns stehen. Und da muss man eine Lösung für finden. Aber jetzt, in näherer Zukunft, müssen wir erstmal aufpassen dass das Land nicht völlig vor die Hunde geht. Und wenn das heißt ein paar Leute müssen länger arbeiten oder so, dann haben wir ja doch keine Wahl.
Ich weiss nicht wie alt du bist aber zur zeit der wende ging es auch schon den bach runter. Um die 2 millionen arbeitslose wenn ich mich recht entsinne. Die wiedervereinigung hat es nur beschleunigt. Die meisten Deutschen firmen sind nur mäsig für die globalisierung gewappnet. Wie man ja am beispiel der HypoVereinsbank, der zweitgrössten bank Deutschlands, sehen kann. Oder Siemens. Die BenQ ja dafür bezahlt haben so das sie ihnen um gotteswillen doch ihre mobieltelefon sparte abnehmen. Hoechst ist tot. Mannesmann gehört den Briten. Karstadt ist so gut wie tot.

-snip-
Ich bin 19 und lebe seit Ende 2001 in Australien.
Also ist es doch wie in Japan. Die Firmen sind einfach nicht vernünftig strukturiert gewesen, und alle müssen das jetzt auskosten.
Aber das geht auch noch gut. Vielleicht können wir die Soziale Marktwirtschaft nicht so retten wie wir das jetzt gerne hätten, aber das ist bloß eine Krise von vielen, und geht auch noch vorbei.
Und dann haben wir hoffentlich was was gut funktioniert und auf dem wir dann neu aufbauen können. Ich hab auf jeden Fall vor nach dem Studium zurückzugehen und mit anzupacken - Am Besten bei Porsche ;) .

Aber jetzt ist das 1:29, und ich sollte schlafen gehen.
-----------------------
Hey, did we scare everyone else? Or why isn't there anyone else posting stuff.

How about the duchy of grand fenwick? Can it join?


That was my first political satire book....

Its funny and ironic that after centuries of countries like Britain and France going around conquering different people around the world,they get so pissed off when some of those prople follow them home
That's funny, I don't remember doing that.

That's funny, I don't remember doing that.
:D
Maybe because you weren't alive then. But the UK certainly did have a certain imperialist streak, don't you think?
Wales, Scotland, Ireland, the American colonies, India, much of Africa, Australia, Hong Kong etc...
So at least when Pakistanis and Africans come to Britain that is to some extent justified.

Wow, my thread is doing well!

Bumperoonie.

Just for the record, I'm not European(as you doubtlessly know), but it won't be much of a European union without the entirety of Europe(save Russia and Switzerland), no? Sure, you could call it the "European without certain choice countries" union, but that doesn't have the same ring to it.

Ich bin 19 und lebe seit Ende 2001 in Australien.
Also ist es doch wie in Japan. Die Firmen sind einfach nicht vernünftig strukturiert gewesen, und alle müssen das jetzt auskosten.
Aber das geht auch noch gut. Vielleicht können wir die Soziale Marktwirtschaft nicht so retten wie wir das jetzt gerne hätten, aber das ist bloß eine Krise von vielen, und geht auch noch vorbei.
Und dann haben wir hoffentlich was was gut funktioniert und auf dem wir dann neu aufbauen können.
Der sozialstaat als ganzes wird abspecken müssen wenn er keinen Hartz infarkt kriegen will. Die kassen sind leer und er ist in diesem umfang einfach nicht zu halten. Will sagen zu bezahlen.

Ich hab auf jeden Fall vor nach dem Studium zurückzugehen und mit anzupacken - Am Besten bei Porsche ;) .
Brav so. :) Hmm...Porsche huh? Eine der wenigen firmen die nicht von krisen geschüttelt wird.

Wow, my thread is doing well!

Bumperoonie.

Just for the record, I'm not European(as you doubtlessly know), but it won't be much of a European union without the entirety of Europe(save Russia and Switzerland), no? Sure, you could call it the "European without certain choice countries" union, but that doesn't have the same ring to it.
Hmmm...It's still very much European. The fact that not all European countries are members doesn't change that. They are in Europe but not in EU.

I've noticed that many (also here in general) often use the word Europe but are talking only about 4 or 5 countries in Europe. (just a side note)

Sure, you could call it the "European without certain choice countries" union, but that doesn't have the same ring to it.
I would like to insert the name of Turkey there.

bump

Hmm...Porsche huh? Eine der wenigen firmen die nicht von krisen geschüttelt wird.
Hauptsächlich wegen Wiedeking. What a Champion. Vielleicht sollte der Kanzler werden.... :p

Hauptsächlich wegen Wiedeking. What a Champion. Vielleicht sollte der Kanzler werden.... :p
Da hätte er wenig freude dran denk ich mal. Als Porsche boss braucht er sich wenigstens nicht mit den Grünen abzugeben.

bump.

And please, speak in a language we all understand. This isn't the E.U. or the U.N., we all don't have translators named Hanz.

bump.

And please, speak in a language we all understand. This isn't the E.U. or the U.N., we all don't have translators named Hanz.

I tend to assume that if they are posting in a little spoken language in an English language thread it is because they have nothing of interest to say to the rest of us. However they have the right to post in Armenian if they want to. (Yes I know it is German, but I was making a point.)

I suggested a while ago that if Turkey were to join the EU then Brazil should be allowed to join as well. Brazil has a much more European culture, it is a Western style christian democracy, it has resources that the EUwould very much like to have available. The only downside is that it is not physically in Europe, but then nor is Turkey.

And please, speak in a language we all understand. This isn't the E.U. or the U.N., we all don't have translators named Hanz.
1. It would be Hans not Hanz.
2. Even if we had posted in English, you wouldn't have had any fun with it, since only few people outside Germany actually care about the NPD, Karstadt and Porsche Boss Wendelin Wiedeking.
3. But if you would bother translating it, you may find it an intriguing look at how German society works these days...

Politicians, from Belgium mainly have talked about wanting to expand to N. Africa.

I guess that solves the immigration problem, they wont have to migrate when we ship our money over.

Birth rates are falling, but why is that a bad thing? Part of being a developing nation, getting a balanced birthrate. Not overpopulating the country, which the UK already is. And plus I'd hate to give that fat fuck Prescott more chance to bulldoze the South East and East of England.


A great percentage of the people of the Mercosur countries (Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay) are direct descendants of europeans (mostly from Germany, Italy and Spain).
Maybe in the future the economic unions should merge into one. That can even solve the problem of the low birth rates of the Europe.