NationStates Jolt Archive

This is an interesting story.

Think about it. If the ammendment passes and goes to the states and the states pass it, then it becomes part of the Constitution which means that flag burning would no longer be constitutionally-protected free expression.

And before anyone starts screaming "THEY CAN'T DO THIS!!!"...yes, they can do this. It follows the process set by the Founding Fathers in order to ammend and change the Constitution. If it were just a law, it could be (and has been) struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. But, if it is made part of the Constitution, then the people will have spoken...just as the Founding Fathers envisioned.
81% of Americans want flag protected
House expected to vote on amendment this week
Posted: June 20, 2005
1:26 p.m. Eastern

The vast majority of Americans want the U.S. flag protected from acts of desecration, according to a new poll.

Asked how important it is to make flag desecration against the law, 81 percent said it was somewhat to extremely important.

The survey of 1004 adults, conducted by the Opinion Research Corporation, also showed 75 percent of Americans want Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to protect the flag.

The U.S. House of Representatives is expected to vote on a flag-protection amendment this week.

Opponents of the amendment argue it would infringe on freedom of speech.

The results of poll, commissioned by the Citizen's Flag Alliance, were similar to others conducted since a 1989 U.S. Supreme Court decision overturned five previous courts and made flag desecration legal.

"I'm delighted but not surprised that this poll again confirms what we already know," said Thomas P. Cadmus, national commander of the American Legion. "When asked a straight forward question, most Americans will give you a straight answer: Protect Old Glory."

Only 28 percent of those surveyed said they would be likely to vote for someone who is opposed to protecting the U.S. Flag.

"The people have spoken again loud and clear," Cadmus said. "I urge members of Congress to heed the voices of the people and the call of all 50 state legislatures. Pass the flag protection amendment now."

Opponents of an amendment also argue flag desecration is rare, but a recent incident was ignored by the mainstream media. As WorldNetDaily reported earlier this month, a group of American Muslims produced a video that shows its members on a New York City street corner declaring Islam's dominance over America as they tread on a U.S. flag and then rip it apart.

Source (http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44885)

That's okay.

Just come on up north of the border to burn your flags.

They'll still be unprotected here.

I think I'll get arrested.

We are a weak nation if we have to have a constitutional amemendment to protect a flag.

Hmm I wonder what else they will "protect" after that......

Defin'ly time for some civil disobediance.

:mad:

This is an interesting story.

Think about it. If the ammendment passes and goes to the states and the states pass it, then it becomes part of the Constitution which means that flag burning would no longer be constitutionally-protected free expression.

And before anyone starts screaming "THEY CAN'T DO THIS!!!"...yes, they can do this. It follows the process set by the Founding Fathers in order to ammend and change the Constitution. If it were just a law, it could be (and has been) struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. But, if it is made part of the Constitution, then the people will have spoken...just as the Founding Fathers envisioned.

Not to mention, burning the flag violates the United States Flag Code unless it is done in the proper ceremony as outlined in said code.

I support this amendment because of the US Flag Code and that I believe that the symbol of the Country that I love needs to be protected.

What will be the punishment for burning a flag?

Instead of temper-tantrums, why not try some grass-roots organizing in your state to get this turd killed in the statehouse. You know, letter-writing, involvement in the dominant party (not a problem here in the PRW, Washington's been a one-party ruled state for a long, long, time, and the Democrats wouldn't let this thing pass.), make your voice heard where it counts, rather than making a spectacle guaranteed to speed passage?

I dont see how the majority can dictate what the minority is to do in this case as burning the flag does not encroach on their freedoms. Since they are not harmed by it they shouldnt have any say in whether other people decide to do it.

i love the flag. yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! britain ought to do something like that too, but it would never come into force under anyone but the conservatives. :)

Instead of temper-tantrums, why not try some grass-roots organizing in your state to get this turd killed in the statehouse. You know, letter-writing, involvement in the dominant party (not a problem here in the PRW, Washington's been a one-party ruled state for a long, long, time, and the Democrats wouldn't let this thing pass.), make your voice heard where it counts, rather than making a spectacle guaranteed to speed passage?

I know that Massachusetts won't pass this amendment, but the problem is there's all those flyover states that will pass it.

See, if we all worked together to make each other happy and hold the government accountable, then perhaps people would not feel that it is neccessary to burn a flag when they are angry. And the government, under increased pressure from the people, would start treating other governments as equals and stop taking advantage of them. Then we could all lay down in hippy love together, and there would be peace, man.

I am a former Marine and a current soldier, so I do not like to see the flag burned. I do understand the frustration people have with our government that makes them want to lash out in this manner. The flag is a symbol, a powerful symbol that can be used, like any other, for good or for evil. The Swastika is the same way.

The real important issue here is freedom of speech. Forgive me for not remembering, but someone once said that "Repression of speech is really repression of thought," or something like that.

All I can say is I don't see this one getting much enforcement time.
"OMG OFFICER! HE'S BURNING A FLAG!"
"THAT GUY STOLE MY WALLET!"

Which one who you devote more attention to?

Anti-Flag burning? I know they don't exactly support the Bush administration, but isn't this going a little far...? Would seem no musicians are safe...
The American Democracy of I V Stalin wishes to apologise for the blatant hijacking of this thread.

i love the flag. yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! britain ought to do something like that too, but it would never come into force under anyone but the conservatives. :)

No maybe under the BNP or UKIP but the Tories arn't that stupid

What will be the punishment for burning a flag?

A year's worth of bad haircuts.

Incidently, passing this amendment would violate all manner of nasty things. If I buy a car or a house or a muffin or a flag, it's my right to burn it. It's mine. Well, ok ... maybe not a house or car as there are environmental laws to consider ... but you get the idea.

Passing this amendment is government interference with private property on an intolerable level. If this passes - and I doubt seriously it will even come close - then I will be one of the first arrests for I will buy 100 flags and burn them all in my front yard. Nice big ones, too.

What will be the punishment for burning a flag?
Death by firing squads IMO. The only people who i've seen burning the US flag - or any flag for that matter - are usually anti-american/western/life terrorists or extremists of their beliefs, and I'm not talking solely about the Middle eastern terrorists. Even though they are the only ones I can think of :p

I know that Massachusetts won't pass this amendment, but the problem is there's all those flyover states that will pass it.

That's not necessarily the case. It requires sixty-percent of the states to pass. Remember that the Democrats up until recently had lock on both the Senate Majority, and the House. There are plenty of moderates in those "Flyover" states. Efforts spent now, in the early stages, can yeild big turnovers later, but you have to pick your fight, and fight smarter, not harder.

You see, most countries don't need this law but America feels like it does, Patriotism? I think this goes a bit far. Now where was the last time this sort of law was introduced? Communist Russia Maybe? North Korea?

Answers on a postcard

Incidently, here's the bill ...

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.01974:

Looks like they're only talking about flags belonging to the United States. Okie ... I can live with that. It's not nice to burn other people's property anyway.

Oops ... never mind ...

`(e) Definition- As used in this section, the term `flag of the United States' means any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, in a form that is commonly displayed as a flag and would be taken to be a flag by the reasonable observer.

They won't even let you burn a picture of a flag? This needs to be killed now.

...Just American flags?

Because I burn U.N. flags on my lawn on a daily basis. Kids come at night around the fire and we tell stories sometimes.

...Just American flags?

Because I burn U.N. flags on my lawn on a daily basis. Kids come at night around the fire and we tell stories sometimes.

Just the Flags of the United States. Can I have a couple of those UN Flags to burn?

Just the Flags of the United States. Can I have a couple of those UN Flags to burn?
Not exactly a UN flag, but........ :p

http://www.webleyweb.com/patriot/

http://www.webleyweb.com/patriot/untp.jpg

What will be the punishment for burning a flag?

Hey, that's a whole other thread. It might just make the reintroduction of corporal punishment all the rage among the knucklewalking set.

Since Muslims aren't allowed to destroy, burn or desecrate the Koran...
...then the US Flag is kinda like the Koran now???

Or the amendment says nothing about flushing the flag down the toilet, or urinating on it?

Not exactly a UN flag, but........ :p

http://www.webleyweb.com/patriot/

http://www.webleyweb.com/patriot/untp.jpg

LOL!! Now that's funny Texpunditistan :D

I'd be interested to see where the UN ever threatened those portions of the consitution, but I don't want to open that whole can of worms again.

As for flag burning, why's it such a big deal? And why is it that a free country would impose such a ban? It makes no sense, and I'm glad someone else pointed out that the only people in the UK, for example, who would even suggest such a thing are the far-right nutcases.

What will be the punishment for burning a flag?
Since the Left is so much in favor of looking to the laws of other countries...I propose we adopt public caning as punishment.

:D

As for flag burning, why's it such a big deal? And why is it that a free country would impose such a ban?
Because the society in the free country dictates it. There are bans on murder and having sex with underage people due to society concluding that they are wrong. This would just be another thing that society considers wrong.

Because the society in the free country dictates it. There are bans on murder and having sex with underage people due to society concluding that they are wrong. This would just be another thing that society considers wrong.Murder and underage sex infringe the rights of other people. Burning a flag only affects an observer's rights if you assume that you have the right to not be offended.

Because the society in the free country dictates it. There are bans on murder and having sex with underage people due to society concluding that they are wrong. This would just be another thing that society considers wrong.
I don'y consider it wrong, I consider a law to ban flag burning government abusing its power over the people

Ihatevacations']I don'y consider it wrong, I consider a law to ban flag burning government abusing its power over the people

Even if the majority of the people want this amendment?

The only people who i've seen burning the US flag - or any flag for that matter - are usually anti-american/western/life terrorists or extremists of their beliefs, and I'm not talking solely about the Middle eastern terrorists.
During the 90's , ordinary Canadian citizens desecrated & burned the Quebec flag in Brockville (Ontario). This provoked outrage in the country. But no law was passed.


" In Quebec, the "Brockville incident" is still famous : a few people from Brockville (Ontario) were shown on TV wiping their feet on the Quebec flag during the Meech Lake period. The images were shown over and over in Quebec, while the support for independence kept rising (not for that reason, it was because of Meech Lake mainly, but this incident was seen as a very strong symbol of English-Canadian intolerance). "


Now, what I find weird is that some Americans supporting the "Anti-Flag Burning Amendment" come up with this story so often.
(Just do a search about Brockville+Flag+Burning+Quebec in Google.)

If this CANADIAN incident didn't lead to an "anti-flag-burning law" in CANADA, why using it as an argument in the US ???

Even if the majority of the people want this amendment?
Majority of people wanted slavery, majority of people wanted the continued impovershment of african americans, the majority has no right to force its will on the minority simply because it is the majority

Even if the majority of the people want this amendment?

Yes, it hurts no-one so should not be banned.

I suddenly have the urge to burn a flag, souly because I may not have the oppertunity in the future.

I'm really glad the small government conservatives are having their voices heard on this issue.

Yes, it hurts no-one so should not be banned.

Unfortunately, the politicians will listen to the majority. Why? Because they want to get re-elected.

Ihatevacations']Majority of people wanted slavery, majority of people wanted the continued impovershment of african americans, the majority has no right to force its will on the minority simply because it is the majority

Actually, that's a sectional thing slavery and everything else you mentioned.

Unfortunately, the politicians will listen to the majority. Why? Because they want to get re-elected.

Maybe, but is that your only argument in favour of the bill? If it is then you should agree that flag burning is not wrong in principle and really shouldnt be banned.

Actually, that's a sectional thing slavery and everything else you mentioned.
what does burning a flag hurt? No one gave a arats ass until the USSC ruled burning the flag in protest count as free speech so now the conservatives are up in arms about "activist judges" that don't rul THEIR way and want to put everything in teh constitution just to spite them

Because the society in the free country dictates it.
But society doesn't get to dictate. That's the principle at stake, what this amendment would mean is "you're free to express yourself so long as you do it in the following pre-approved ways", and that's the beginning of the end. Your Constitution has stood for centuries with very little tinkering, you can't play fast and loose with it and change it willy-nilly to suit your own political ideology (remember XVIII?) or the feeling on a given Monday in June. There are amendments being considered on term limits, on flag burning, on the first amendment, on gay marriage. This is not the way to go about things, "I don't like it, so we'll get it banned in the Constitution", and when some other group has power and they start banning things you want to do and getting their changes in the Constitution? It is NOT the property of the current government, it is the property of the ages and of your posterity and must be respected as such.

Maybe, but is that your only argument in favour of the bill? If it is then you should agree that is not wrong in principle and really shouldnt be banned.

Actually, burning the flag is a violation of the US Flag Code unless done by a proper flag burning ceremony. Burning the flag at a protest is not the proper ceremony. That is why I support this amendment. I also support it on the grounds that the Flag is the symbol of the US and it needs to be protected.

Ihatevacations]what does burning a flag hurt? No one gave a arats ass until the USSC ruled burning the flag in protest count as free speech so now the conservatives are up in arms about "activist judges" that don't rul THEIR way and want to put everything in teh constitution just to spite them

Because under the United States Flag Code, it is improper to burn the flag unless done so in a proper ceremony. Since Burning the flag at a protest doesn't constitute a proper ceremony, I consider it an abominition. I support this amendment because it re-enforces the US Flag Code and protects this nation's highest symbol.

Unfortunately, the politicians will listen to the majority. Why? Because they want to get re-elected.

I doubt that politicians won't get re-elected if this doesn't get through. Thinking about it though it would be good slogan for the people who didn't back it.

These People reject the safety of the american flag

Ihatevacations']I don'y consider it wrong, I consider a law to ban flag burning government abusing its power over the people
No, it WOULD be wrong if it was the government abusing it's power. In the case of an Ammendment, it's the PEOPLE that pass it.

Next thing you know, they'll outlaw dropping a flag on the ground or waving it upside-down.

Note to self: Buy some flags...and a lighter... :D

Actually, burning the flag is a violation of the US Flag Code unless done by a proper flag burning ceremony. Burning the flag at a protest is not the proper ceremony. That is why I support this amendment. I also support it on the grounds that the Flag is the symbol of the US and it needs to be protected.

US flag code? what the hell is that? As if it matters if a flag is not disposed of properly. I really dont see how your second argument matters. Why does it need to be protected? I dont think anything is going to happen ot the US just because someone burnt a flag.

Because under the United States Flag Code, it is improper to burn the flag unless done so in a proper ceremony. Since Burning the flag at a protest doesn't constitute a proper ceremony, I consider it an abominition. I support this amendment because it re-enforces the US Flag Code and protects this nation's highest symbol.
Then any piece of clothing or other merchandise with the flag or the suggestion of the flag should be immediately outlawed and anyone found wearing or producing such should be warned, fined, then jailed.

PS. Read the flag code, desecration of the flag is only against the code in the district of columbia. The only note it makes to burning is in its disposal and only says that as a suggestion of how to dispose of it


Outlaw flags on clothing and personal items, keep flag buring legal in accordance with the US Flag Code!

I have to say... it's a /flag/. Shouldn't the Constitution be for, y'know, important things? Isn't it a little demeaning to say, in effect, that 'You're not allowed to burn a flag' is on the same level as the right to free speech, or the right to bear arms?

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are other utterly trivial amendments. I don't really care, as long as they don't try to export it over here. But it does seem a little silly.

Currently, most countries have laws prohibiting the destruction of money (paper or metal currency). Why? Because you don't actually own the money, you just own the value BEHIND the money. The government paid for the money, you didn't actually buy the object, so it still belongs to the government.

Now, if we would like to apply the same logic to flags, here's the trick:

1) Only the government is allowed to print or create flags.
2) Flags are free and may be given to you upon request.
3) It is illegal to burn a flag; any flag that you don't want anymore may be returned to a post office or government office for redistribution or proper destruction.

But of course, this would be a bit weird!!! :confused:


Why would we respect the flag, anyway? People who print the flags (often in foreign countries), package them, distribute them, sell them... don't show much respect anyway. They handle it like any other consumer good. If that symbol is SO important, then proper care should be taken on the WHOLE process and through the object's lifespan.

As a second example (after the "money" example), consider the Koran. The Koran is printed by true believers, and is handled with a lot of care until it reaches the consumer's hands. Now if there is ONE object that people do respect, it is this holy book. I mean... I've often seen Bibles mis-handled, thrown away, or printed on cheap materials. The Koran? Never.

Next thing you know, they'll outlaw dropping a flag on the ground or waving it upside-down.

Note to self: Buy some flags...and a lighter... :D

Actually, flying it upside down is a sign of distress. That is in the US Flag Code. :D

As several others have said, It's just a flag. What is a flag? It's a bit of rag with some colours painted on it... So what's the big deal?

US flag code? what the hell is that?

It tells you how to handle and care for the flag of the United States.

As if it matters if a flag is not disposed of properly.

Actually it does matter.

I really dont see how your second argument matters. Why does it need to be protected? I dont think anything is going to happen ot the US just because someone burnt a flag.

I believe its this nation's highest symbol and therefore warrents protection.

I would definitely vote against anyone who supported such an amendment. Why protect a symbol at the expense of one of the ideas that it represents?

As several others have said, It's just a flag. What is a flag? It's a bit of rag with some colours painted on it... So what's the big deal?

I think its what it represents, it used to mean burn a flag = wanting to destroy a country.
At first I thought this was a strange thing but its quite common, countries such as, Spain, France, Italy, Greece and Turkey just to name a few in Europe / Asia. Mainly Catholic countries I believe

Ihatevacations']Then any piece of clothing or other merchandise with the flag or the suggestion of the flag should be immediately outlawed and anyone found wearing or producing such should be warned, fined, then jailed.

Actually, to put it on shirts, shoes, bags, and whatnot is a violation of the US Flag Code only if its the full 50 stars and 13 stripes. If it doesn't have all 50 stars and its 13 stripes then its legal under the United States Flag Code.

PS. Read the flag code, desecration of the flag is only against the code in the district of columbia. The only note it makes to burning is in its disposal and only says that as a suggestion of how to dispose of it

Which is the proper burning of the flag ceremony.

Outlaw flags on clothing and personal items, keep flag buring legal in accordance with the US Flag Code!

If its the full US Flag then it can't be on clothing etc, but if it isn't the full flag, then its perfectly legal under the US Flag Code.

Remember the last time a Constitutional Amendment was passed in an attempt to legislate morality?

It was the 18th Amendment, better known as Prohibition.

Instead of cutting down the consumption of alcohol, it merely drove the practice underground, and in addition provided a substantial income boost to organized crime.

It was repealed by the 21st Amendment after it was realized that Prohibition was an absolute failure and law enforcement nightmare.

This No Flag Burnng Amendment proposed is no different from Prohibition. It will turn a harmless and symbolic act into a crime, which will only promote a backlash that will suck up law enforcement resources away from the serious crimes.

I predict it is unlikely to pass, and that if it does, will only divert police resources away from serious crimes.

Does the amendment refer to the flag as it currently stands? or to all past and future incarnations of it? It's specific enough to refer to pictures of the flag, but what if I burned one with 48 stars? That's NOT the flag of the US. What about state flags, shouldn't they be given some regard too? Many people feel more attached to their state than to the USA as a whole. What about people who don't feel like it is their flag? People who maybe think their state shouldn't be in the Union, surely that would be legitimate protest (I'm thinking Hawai'i here, though currently the favoured protest is to fly the state flag upside down).

If its the full US Flag then it can't be on clothing etc, but if it isn't the full flag, then its perfectly legal under the US Flag Code.

Is the Flag Code actual Federal law? Or is it a set of guidelines?

Edit: Never mind, found it myself...

The code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law.

Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag were contained in Title 18 of the United States Code prior to 1989. The Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson; June 21, 1989, held the statute unconstitutional. This statute was amended when the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989) imposed a fine and/or up to I year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor or trampling upon any flag of the United States. The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990.

If its the full US Flag then it can't be on clothing etc, but if it isn't the full flag, then its perfectly legal under the US Flag Code.
That would mean that FLAG BIKINIS would still be legal! w00t! *does a dance*

http://www.mds.mdh.se/~adb93tem/b&b/pics/dance.jpg

:p

Currently, most countries have laws prohibiting the destruction of money (paper or metal currency). Why? Because you don't actually own the money, you just own the value BEHIND the money. The government paid for the money, you didn't actually buy the object, so it still belongs to the government.

Now, if we would like to apply the same logic to flags, here's the trick:

1) Only the government is allowed to print or create flags.
2) Flags are free and may be given to you upon request.
3) It is illegal to burn a flag; any flag that you don't want anymore may be returned to a post office or government office for redistribution or proper destruction.

But of course, this would be a bit weird!!! :confused:


Why would we respect the flag, anyway? People who print the flags (often in foreign countries), package them, distribute them, sell them... don't show much respect anyway. They handle it like any other consumer good. If that symbol is SO important, then proper care should be taken on the WHOLE process and through the object's lifespan.

As a second example (after the "money" example), consider the Koran. The Koran is printed by true believers, and is handled with a lot of care until it reaches the consumer's hands. Now if there is ONE object that people do respect, it is this holy book. I mean... I've often seen Bibles mis-handled, thrown away, or printed on cheap materials. The Koran? Never.

Please don't make reasonable arguments around here. Ever again. OK? Thanks.

:D

Is the Flag Code actual Federal law? Or is it a set of guidelines?

Edit: Never mind, found it myself...

Federal law!

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Is+the+Flag+Code+Federal+Law%3F/v=2/SID=w/TID=E224_105/l=WS1/R=3/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=1/;_ylt=AscEoGLlRnjnyzdNBlS4GpNXNyoA/SIG=11doi9avh/EXP=1119392918/*-http%3A//suvcw.org/flag.htm

That would mean that FLAG BIKINIS would still be legal! w00t! *does a dance*

http://www.mds.mdh.se/~adb93tem/b&b/pics/dance.jpg

:p

http://www.baroncapital.com/soiree/images/girl_bikini.jpg

*tears up*

God bless America....

Is the Flag Code actual Federal law? Or is it a set of guidelines?

Edit: Never mind, found it myself...

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html

An even better link.

That would mean that FLAG BIKINIS would still be legal! w00t! *does a dance*

But an awful lot of bike jackets and the like might need to be rounded up and properly disposed of by accredited Federal agents, lest they be put to improper use.

And anyone with war films or such like on VHS had best be careful how they dispose of the case if it has a flag pictured on it. Book covers too, I'd imagine.

But an awful lot of bike jackets and the like might need to be rounded up and properly disposed of by accredited Federal agents, lest they be put to improper use.

Not my problem! :D That's the biker's problem.

Not my problem! :D That's the biker's problem.

No, that's the job of the police who are tapped to deal with the 'problem'.

Not my problem! :D That's the biker's problem.

Just so long as its not my job ;) . We could always get Bush to do it :D :D

No, that's the job of the police who are tapped to deal with the 'problem'.

Good point.

http://www.baroncapital.com/soiree/images/girl_bikini.jpg

*tears up*

God bless America....
http://www.allamericanbikini.com/AllAmericanBikiniTeamBestCut3.jpg

I pledge allegiance to the...uh...erm...*twitch*...*drool*

Just so long as its not my job ;) . We could always get Bush to do it :D :D

HAHAHA!!! Come now Gata.. its the job for local law enforcement. No need to drag the Commander-in-Chief into it. Though it was a funny line :D

HAHAHA!!! Come now Gata.. its the job for local law enforcement. No need to drag the Commander-in-Chief into it. Though it was a funny line :D

You can see it though and it's great :D

You can see it though and it great :D

Yes I can see it. :D

Anyone remember the Simpsons-episode where Itchy and Scratchy were banned? There was a cartoon about the Constitution instead, where a bill concerning (you guessed it) flag-burning sung about how great it would be if he could be an ammendment...
Never actually thought it would get that far though...

I've had a teacher in Austria who told us about the time he was soldier (compulsory 1-year training) and got sent to Court Martial because he used an Austrian flag as a blanket. In Europe, even that is considered desacration of a national symbol.

Which is the proper burning of the flag ceremony.
There is no mention of any ceremony in the code


If its the full US Flag then it can't be on clothing etc, but if it isn't the full flag, then its perfectly legal under the US Flag Code.
Section J says no part of the flag should be used as costume or uniform, that can theoretically cover alot

Ihatevacations']There is no mention of any ceremony in the code

I guess I"m thinking of the military. They have regulations on it.

Section J says no part of the flag should be used as costume or uniform, that can theoretically cover alot

Your right about that.

i love the flag. yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! britain ought to do something like that too, but it would never come into force under anyone but the conservatives. :)
Don't worry, Labour are on a binge of banning everything right now, so you might get a flag-burning ban too!

I've had a teacher in Austria who told us about the time he was soldier (compulsory 1-year training) and got sent to Court Martial because he used an Austrian flag as a blanket. In Europe, even that is considered desacration of a national symbol.

In the Austrian army, maybe. Not in Europe as a whole, and not generally for civilians.

Just for equality's sake. ;)

http://www.allamericanbikini.com/shop/media/FlagStars&StripesUSA1new.jpg

In the Austrian army, maybe. Not in Europe as a whole, and not generally for civilians.

Is for Italy, Spain, France, Greece and Turkey(non EU) IIRC

Just for equality's sake. ;)

http://www.allamericanbikini.com/shop/media/FlagStars&StripesUSA1new.jpg

http://imagescommerce.bcentral.com/merchantfiles/4782367/2621-4801.jpg

http://imagescommerce.bcentral.com/merchantfiles/4782367/2621-4801.jpg
There we go! BANANA HAMMOCKS FOR EVERYONE! :p

Hey Im all for protecting the flag. It represents me and my country. Im proud of it.

Is for Italy, Spain, France, Greece and Turkey(non EU) IIRC

I'm not finding information easily on all of those, you're certainly right on Turkey though, and it's apparently "frowned" on by Ireland, but not acted on.

However, did find this snippet:

How much sense does it make to abridge free speech by criminalizing the act of desecrating a symbol of, among other things, free speech? If we make flag desecration illegal, we will have accorded the symbol (the flag) greater importance and significance than the principle (freedom of speech) itself. At that point, the principle of freedom of speech has become of less importance than its symbol, the flag, presenting us a contradiction in terms. How can a symbol be greater than the thing it symbolizes?

http://www.webleyweb.com/patriot/

http://www.webleyweb.com/patriot/untp.jpg

Nice joke. Now prove it. What are you basing this claim on?

Demos and Reps are destroying the country, and all people can bitch about is this....

What about Austin Powers and his Union Jack underwear?
(Can we call them the "Unions Jocks"??? LOL)

What about Austin Powers and his Union Jack underwear?
(Can we call them the "Unions Jocks"??? LOL)

If you like, and they're perfectly legal. There's no law whatsoever, in English, Scots or UK law, protecting the Union Flag.

wow.. Everyone I know is going to be arrested if it's passed. I cant believe some of the shit these people are coming up with. Burning the flag or using it for whatever else is anyones right.


I think a flag would make a very comfortable blanket *pulls out Japans flag and curls up in it while burning the American flag for extra warmth*

I'm not finding information easily on all of those, you're certainly right on Turkey though, and it's apparently "frowned" on by Ireland, but not acted on.

However, did find this snippet:

Catholic countries outlaw it along with the orthodox countries, I don't have a link to prove it but I've lived in Cyprus and Spain and I'm Catholic.

Catholic countries outlaw it along with the orthodox countries, I don't have a link to prove it but I've lived in Cyprus and Spain and I'm Catholic.

Not convinced by that generalisation, I'm afraid. I'm not saying you're wrong that it is outlawed in some Catholic countries, I'm skeptical that there's any kind of link there.

Not convinced by that generalisation, I'm afraid. I'm not saying you're wrong that it is outlawed in some Catholic countries, I'm skeptical that there's any kind of link there.

Like I say I only know the countries I've been to and that Catholic countries frown or have some sort of law. Ireland frown on it like you mention. Would the statement that most Catholic Countries frown on flag burning with some having legislation against it suffice?

Like I say I only know the countries I've been to and that Catholic countries frown or have some sort of law. Ireland frown on it like you mention. Would the statement that most Catholic Countries frown on flag burning with some having legislation against it suffice?
Yup. I wasn't saying you were wrong, just doubting that they have such laws because they're Catholic.

Yup. I wasn't saying you were wrong, just doubting that they have such laws because they're Catholic.

There seems to be a link between religion and national pride though. Religious people also take symbolism a lot more seriously though. That's just my general opinion