NationStates Jolt Archive

As I am going through high school, I'm thinking of getting into politics. I have come to the conclusion that it is possible to form an oligarchy (a sort of monarchy where a small group of people that rule a country). Hypothetically, you only need 4 men to complete such a feat. You need one to run for President, one for Vice President, one for the Senate, and one for the House. If the four men are elected, then the President may do whatever he pleases. Say he were to propose an amendment to repeal the 22nd amendment. The House and Senate must approve, right? That's where the other two men come in. They can easily persuede the two branches of Congress. But wait! It must be approved by the Supreme Court. But, the President appoints them and they must be approved by Congress ;) . So say you can do all of these things. Along comes an assassin, the President is killed. Vice President takes over. If he's part of your "Inner Ring", he'll do the exact same stuff as the President. Then if he gets shot, the Speaker of the House becomes president. Then the President Pro-Tempore becomes the president. If those are your two other men, you're set. Next, the President would have chosen a Cabinet, so they're next in line for the seat. It's a beautiful cycle... Thoughts?

would YOU do that?

How can one man persuade congress to drop the 22 amendment?

Oligarchies usually don't function well in a democracy, although I suppose it could work given the scenario you illustrated. But there remains several problems.

1. What if the House and Senate don't approve? Even if you have the majority leader on your side that doesn't mean he can automatically persuade the remaining members.

2. The Supreme Court by default has to maintain the consitutionality of any law/amendment. So, realistically you couldn't exactly get away with anything you want.

3. You'll anger most of America.

Interesting idea. :)

It's been done.. That's really what we have right now

The Supreme Court doesn't have to approve anything. In fact, they can't strike down a constitutional amendment at all. But you would need control of 3/4ths of the states. Plus you'd need control of 2/3s of the House and Senate to pass it in the first place. So, no, it wouldn't work too well.

It's been done.. That's really what we have right now

I knew someone would say that... :rolleyes:

The House and Senate must approve, right? That's where the other two men come in. They can easily persuede the two branches of Congress.

It's essentially impossible for one man, or even a small group, to gain a majority in Congress on a controversial issue. In the case of repealing a Constitutional Amendment, you would need to pass a new amendment. That doesn't require just a majority in both houses, but a 2/3 majority. Your chances of getting that with one plant in each house are nil.

But wait! It must be approved by the Supreme Court. But, the President appoints them and they must be approved by Congress.

Constitutional Amendments do not need to be approved by the Supreme Court. The Court's job is to uphold the Constitution--if the people change the Constituiton (amend it), then the court must uphold the newly changed Constituiton. However, you do need 3/4 of the states to ratify an amendment, so unless you've brainwashed most of the American people, it's going to fail.

And I won't even begin to discuss the difficulties of getting a President, Vice President, Speaker of the House, and a Majority Leader all elected. In other words, creating an oligarchy in American politics with four men is all but impossible.

It worked for Rutherford B. Hayes in the election of 1880 or 1876 I can't remember...

would YOU do that?

And if you would, can i be vice president?

uh
easy peasy

few TEENY TINY problems

you have to be elected president as a member of one of the big 2 parties, you generally have to have a good political resume. you have to actually get elected

your congressmen have NO power when they first get elected. it takes .... 20 years in congress before a person can begin to have the kind of power and prestige needed to get an ammendment through congress without much questioning.

your ammendment doesnt need the approval of the supreme court, it needs the approval of...3/5th??. of the states. it goes before each and every state in the union.

no matter how many men get assassinated, they only serve the current term of the presidency then face re-election.

the congressmen will NEVER get to be president unless both prez and vp get killed at the same time. (or the vp gets to be pres and then selects one of them to be vp)

do i need to go on?

I knew someone would say that... :rolleyes:
lol. It's not as if it's not obvious.. and even now the judical branch is not doing exactly like the president wants, so he's trying to get more of his own people in there to fix it

uh
easy peasy

few TEENY TINY problems

you have to be elected president as a member of one of the big 2 parties, you generally have to have a good political resume. you have to actually get elected

your congressmen have NO power when they first get elected. it takes .... 20 years in congress before a person can begin to have the kind of power and prestige needed to get an ammendment through congress without much questioning.

your ammendment doesnt need the approval of the supreme court, it needs the approval of...3/5th??. of the states. it goes before each and every state in the union.

no matter how many men get assassinated, they only serve the current term of the presidency then face re-election.

the congressmen will NEVER get to be president unless both prez and vp get killed at the same time. (or the vp gets to be pres and then selects one of them to be vp)

do i need to go on?

I can still try though...

lol. It's not as if it's not obvious.. and even now the judical branch is not doing exactly like the president wants, so he's trying to get more of his own people in there to fix it

Is this anything new? What president wouldn't want people sympathetic to his stances in the Supreme Court? It's the political process in action, my friend.

The US government is a de facto oligarchy.

It's a VERY rare (and damned-near impossible) thing for your average Joe/Jane to get anywhere in politics because they're not one of the Ivy League/old money/new money elite.

"Is this anything new? What president wouldn't want people sympathetic to his stances in the Supreme Court? It's the political process in action, my friend."

I agree. Just like just about every president wants to repeal the amendment limiting them to two turms.. I know for a fact that Clinton tried, and now Bush is trying. I'm always amazed how people elected to uphold the democratic process and checks and balances try and get arround them at every oppertunity

And if you would, can i be vice president?

Republican or Democrat? Conservative or Liberal?

I knew someone would say that... :rolleyes:

The fact that every other country in the world now considers America their greatest threat to their national sovriegnty. Canada is spending 11 billion on their Military and they are the best allies you have. China and Russia are moving and deploying hundreds of more nuclear weapons and China alone is increasing its military to well over 1 million troops in case China has to "defend" Asian nations from "American Aggression".

If you wanted to become the new Nazi's on the wrong side of world war three, congratulations. But remember, you're biggest ally, England, will have a rebellion and hang Tony Blair if he proposes another war. Already they are building a warcrime trial against him.

Actually, Senator Conyers is actually doing the same thing to Bush in the US with his half a million man petition... We might get lucky and you guys will recognize how close you are pushing us to world war three (and when I say "you guys" I mean your government, because there is no correlation to the populations wishes and their governments actions. I mean, do you think that people honestly want PBS killed, Medicare killed, Social Security killed and Police and Fire killed... Not likely.), and overthrow your own government.

Unfortunately they are going for broke and they are doing things they KNOW will get them hanged. Well, all that means is they have nothing to lose now. If the American people ever "revolted" then they would need to "control by force". I'm not imagining this, and I hope just one of you can listen to your own declaration of independance and read it. Those who have the power to correct the wrongs must act. You cannot allow us to have to fight a new Tortureous War machine that is fed by it's corporate rulers. It's all about money and oil.

Thing of it this way... You can't win a war to take over the world. Well, unless your goal is nuclear war, then no problem, you're doing just fine.

"Is this anything new? What president wouldn't want people sympathetic to his stances in the Supreme Court? It's the political process in action, my friend."

I agree. Just like just about every president wants to repeal the amendment limiting them to two turms.. I know for a fact that Clinton tried, and now Bush is trying. I'm always amazed how people elected to uphold the democratic process and checks and balances try and get arround them at every oppertunity

Well to George HW Bush it's "We don't have to change our figurehead if we can rig another election in his favour". Just throw out the terror and fear and alter about 100 thousand voting machines and voila, the best kind of elections, the kind that the dice are already loaded in.

The fact that every other country in the world now considers America their greatest threat to their national sovriegnty. Canada is spending 11 billion on their Military and they are the best allies you have. China and Russia are moving and deploying hundreds of more nuclear weapons and China alone is increasing its military to well over 1 million troops in case China has to "defend" Asian nations from "American Aggression".

If you wanted to become the new Nazi's on the wrong side of world war three, congratulations. But remember, you're biggest ally, England, will have a rebellion and hang Tony Blair if he proposes another war. Already they are building a warcrime trial against him.

Actually, Senator Conyers is actually doing the same thing to Bush in the US with his half a million man petition... We might get lucky and you guys will recognize how close you are pushing us to world war three (and when I say "you guys" I mean your government, because there is no correlation to the populations wishes and their governments actions. I mean, do you think that people honestly want PBS killed, Medicare killed, Social Security killed and Police and Fire killed... Not likely.), and overthrow your own government.

Unfortunately they are going for broke and they are doing things they KNOW will get them hanged. Well, all that means is they have nothing to lose now. If the American people ever "revolted" then they would need to "control by force". I'm not imagining this, and I hope just one of you can listen to your own declaration of independance and read it. Those who have the power to correct the wrongs must act. You cannot allow us to have to fight a new Tortureous War machine that is fed by it's corporate rulers. It's all about money and oil.

Thing of it this way... You can't win a war to take over the world. Well, unless your goal is nuclear war, then no problem, you're doing just fine.

Well, it's not like I plan to be evil if I try to do this. I just want my ideas to live on.

All you have to do to be a part of the oligarchy is be a rich, white, Christian (preferably protestant), male...and possibly a freemason.

They still have Free Masons?