NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sure there are threads already about this, but I'd like to bring up the topic of partisanship (specifically American).

While many people these days are troubled by the apparent 50/50 partisanship of this country, what I find more troubling is the stronghold that parties have on this country... Because basically, you're either a Democrat or a Republican.

Now, a fair number of Democrats a far more liberal view than their party [attempts to] espouse. Erstwhile, a fair number of Republicans are troubled by the shift in power from Libertarian Right to Fundamentalist Right.

But where are these people to turn to? The jaded masses see corruption in both parties, and those who [rightfully] refuse to give up voting merely because of this quandry still have to deal with the problem of voting for a party that doesn't share its views (no longer just partially, but at times, in its entirety).

Specifically, I suppose, the liberal Democrats would rather vote Green (but not too Green) and the GOP Republicans would rather vote Libertarian (but not too Libertarian). Still, on a minor scale (which it would assuredly be), it's a lost vote.

Heck, third parties aren't even allowed in debates, and I can't recall a time I've seen advertisements, besides indy bumper stickers or posters et al.

So basically, my rant amounts to my faith in a restoration of party ideals and divisions between parties: nothing.

How might we rectify this situation, and how could the average (or more likely, above average) citizen do something to help?

I'm sure there are threads already about this, but I'd like to bring up the topic of partisanship (specifically American).

While many people these days are troubled by the apparent 50/50 partisanship of this country, what I find more troubling is the stronghold that parties have on this country... Because basically, you're either a Democrat or a Republican.

Now, a fair number of Democrats a far more liberal view than their party [attempts to] espouse. Erstwhile, a fair number of Republicans are troubled by the shift in power from Libertarian Right to Fundamentalist Right.

Yeah, I am troubled by this Fundamentalist Right. I wish the Libertarian Right was the base. I can get along with them more.

But where are these people to turn to? The jaded masses see corruption in both parties, and those who [rightfully] refuse to give up voting merely because of this quandry still have to deal with the problem of voting for a party that doesn't share its views (no longer just partially, but at times, in its entirety).

Specifically, I suppose, the liberal Democrats would rather vote Green (but not too Green) and the GOP Republicans would rather vote Libertarian (but not too Libertarian). Still, on a minor scale (which it would assuredly be), it's a lost vote.

Heck, third parties aren't even allowed in debates, and I can't recall a time I've seen advertisements, besides indy bumper stickers or posters et al.

They aren't allowed in the debates because, in what seems like their only act of bipartisanship these days, they totally control the debates to make them more friendly so their candidate won't look like a dumbass if the audience brings up a really good question that they aren't prepared for. We need to kill the organization that runs the debates now, and put another organization in control of it.

So basically, my rant amounts to my faith in a restoration of party ideals and divisions between parties: nothing.

How might we rectify this situation, and how could the average (or more likely, above average) citizen do something to help?

I hate party politics. I hate how that nowadays people will seemingly always vote with their party no matter what.

I hate party politics. I hate how that nowadays people will seemingly always vote with their party no matter what.

But in our current situation, it appears we don't have much choice.

I'm sure there are threads already about this, but I'd like to bring up the topic of partisanship (specifically American).

While many people these days are troubled by the apparent 50/50 partisanship of this country, what I find more troubling is the stronghold that parties have on this country... Because basically, you're either a Democrat or a Republican.

Now, a fair number of Democrats a far more liberal view than their party [attempts to] espouse. Erstwhile, a fair number of Republicans are troubled by the shift in power from Libertarian Right to Fundamentalist Right.

But where are these people to turn to? The jaded masses see corruption in both parties, and those who [rightfully] refuse to give up voting merely because of this quandry still have to deal with the problem of voting for a party that doesn't share its views (no longer just partially, but at times, in its entirety).

Specifically, I suppose, the liberal Democrats would rather vote Green (but not too Green) and the GOP Republicans would rather vote Libertarian (but not too Libertarian). Still, on a minor scale (which it would assuredly be), it's a lost vote.

Heck, third parties aren't even allowed in debates, and I can't recall a time I've seen advertisements, besides indy bumper stickers or posters et al.

So basically, my rant amounts to my faith in a restoration of party ideals and divisions between parties: nothing.

How might we rectify this situation, and how could the average (or more likely, above average) citizen do something to help?


Very true. There are two solutions that might solve the problem. The simplest would be for the average voter to vote for third party candidates, and think of it not as a wasted vote but, as voting against a two party system. The second is more complicated, but lobby for the local (start with really local, like school board district local) adoption of an alternative voting system. I recomend approval voting, (the voter simply votes for as many candidates as they approve of, and the candidate with the most votes wins).
If you can get a few school board districts and the like to adopt the sytem, you can start working on a township. Ultimately at the county or state level, the two major parties will start to fight you, because it is far from their best interests to allow further competition to diminsh their foothold on the political process, with the associate campaign contributions and the like. I doubt that it was accidental that the two candidates who publicly crossed party lines to stand for campaign finance reform in 2000 were somewhat hamstrung by their repective parties. I'm not so much suggesting that the parties are out to manipulate things in some Machiavallian way, but campaign finance reform and voting system reform will both be harmful to the strutural organizations that are the democratic and republican parties, so they are highly likely to oppose such notions with all the force they can muster.

I've always viewed the idea that a third party not being able to win as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Everyone votes for one of the two main parties because they feel that they're the only two with a chance. In so doing they're just as often, if not more, voting against the other guy as opposed to voting for their guy. I honestly feel that if people believed third party votes could make a difference then we could break the Dem/Rep stranglehold on American politics. The problem is that most people believe the two current parties are so powerful because they represent the ideals of a great majority of the population, when really they don't.

The system is designed to be a two party system. There are good alternatives to open the system up to more parties, but who is going to implement them? Neither party wants a guarantee of less seats in legislature and more competition to contend with.

Some ways to promote a multi-party system:

1. Proportional representation
2. Run-off elections
3. Allowing 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice votes

But in our current situation, it appears we don't have much choice.
Well, that's not true, they're on the ballots. The problem with the fringe parties, and I've signed a petition to get their candidates on a ballot every time I've been asked, is that they're full of crazies. As the core of Democrats and Republicans increasingly watch their parties deteriorate into ever more bizarre ass-hattery they will either join the delusion or look for alternatives. In either case it's the people who are looking for alternatives that will be chosing the brand of crazy we all suffer through. As the party platforms become ever more unwieldy, the potential dividend from gaming one's vote diminishes, and all the other alternatives appear more attractive. This is how parties grow and die in America.

The other major mistake, apart from failing to construct anything approaching a sensible platform to stick to, is they want to take it all in one big bite. Ralph Nader will never be president, he might be able to get mayor of San Francisco, or be voted in as a representative to a state legislature. But he doesn't want that. And the Libertarians don't run candidates for school board positions, or Sheriff.

From the behavior of the people in the fringe parties, all one is left to conclude is that they don't like way things are, but they're not interested in making any change. They just want to be part of the spectical. And, in that, they do succeed.

The way to change things is from the ground, up. Not the up, down.

A third party has no chance of starting in the United States because if it even has a modicum of support, either the Republican or Democratic parties will leech away at its platform, taking it for itself.

Last time a third party managed to get big was the Republican party.

In... 1856.

Yeah.

...okay, a third party DOES have a chance, but... Only with other third parties. A coalition, in other words, with other parties to work together to achieve their goals. Sometimes contradictory, but they can sort that out LATER.

The thing is, to start small. Get the local people, the local governments. Those are the ones that matter to the normal, every day people, because those are the ones they have to deal with on a more regular basis.

Then use THAT support to go for State governments.

It moves on from there.