NationStates Jolt Archive

Anybody watching this so-called race? Thoughts?

I think the whole thing is hilarious. :D

once again i'm finding myself having to pretend Micheal Schitmacher doesn't exist, i hate him :headbang:

biggest. farce. ever

Michelin are to blame for the tyre problem, Ferrari are to blame for the 6 car race.

yeah im watching the parade.

in my humble opinion a chicane would have been so much more interesting! it would have made a proper test of drivers skill as they had to react to it from almost scratch.

Alas Shu-twatter will now win and get right back into the championship, which may mean that he doesn't quit next year. :(

F1 has been going downhill more and more recently, because they aren't adapting their courses to the cars sufficiently... technology is improving so much that these courses simply eliminate competition between the drivers. They need to redesign every single F1 course to make them more competative, widening tracks, etc. That and they should take all the electonics off of the cars that haven't pretty much always been there, and slow them down significantly, that way the driver can actually race the thing properly instead of lining up one by one and driving round the line perfectly.


oh, and since you're here Nadkor, I sent you a TG a few days ago.... I wouldn't have asked if you got it, but sometimes you say you don't notice :D

It was a boring "sport" to start with anyway

Agreed. The circus before this particular race was the most exciting thing in it for ages.

Well, there's always NASCAR.

dont get that on tv much in england tho :(

Be glad; it's even worse.

It's dull and it's rigged.

Does that answer your question?

It's dull and it's rigged.

Does that answer your question?
Well, yes and no. I knew it was dull, but rigged too?

Why don't you watch somethign more interesting and that isn't so predictable?

Well, yes and no. I knew it was dull, but rigged too?

Pretty much.

Notice only about 3 teams ever have a chance of winning, whilst the others are some sort of moving chicane?

And remember the scandal a few years ago? The one where Barricello was about to win when he mysteriously breaked to let Schumakker win?

Ahh. Those kinds of things. I was expecting somekind of Illuminati/Elders of the Zion sort of stuff... needless to say I'm a bit dissappointed. :)

Ahh. Those kinds of things. I was expecting somekind of Illuminati/Elders of the Zion sort of stuff... needless to say I'm a bit dissappointed. :)

Sorry to disappoint you.

Although that stuff may be true, and we don't know it. Yet...

once again i'm finding myself having to pretend Micheal Schitmacher doesn't exist, i hate him :headbang:

Well on a plus, he hasn't one a race yet :D!

Last year was terrible. . No competition at all.

Never been a fan of F1 though.

Well, there's always NASCAR.

Don't they just drive round in circles?

Don't they just drive round in circles?
At least it's more than six cars just cruising around. It's 43 cars racing around and you don't know who's going to win until the very end.

Don't they just drive round in circles?

Yea But


|__________________________| Closest Margin of Victory In Nascar

|___________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________| Closest Margain of Victory in F1

Motorbikes for the win. The races in that are superclose, the riders are amazing and have skill, and the course is actually more interesting than a big circle. Also, due to the fact they aren't as wide, there's more overtaking due to different racing line possibilities, etc. Nobody can top motorbikes :D

Yea But


|__________________________| Closest Margin of Victory In Nascar

|___________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________| Closest Margain of Victory in F1
pretty clear that you havent been paying any attention to F1 this year (before this race)

it was an awesome season, close racing, close finishes, excitement, entertainment.

wrecked by this farce

The only car racing championship that is anything like interesting is the WRC. The rest are just plain boring in comparison.

Wow! Who would have thought! Schumacher won!
I thought Narain Karthikeyan would have been unstoppable this time. Ah well... maybe next time.

Whats happening with the F1 race?? Why are people upset, I just switched on and the commentators were complaining about something but they never said what!

If anyone ever asks, "what is your favorite F1 team?", I state I don't like it before going systematically through every single reason why it is shite...

If I am pressed for an answer after that, I just say "Minardi".

I advise everyone here to do the same.

Michelin couldn't provide safe tyres. So only 3 teams participated (6 cars). That's value for your money, if you happened to buy a ticket to see the race.

good racing is WRC, JGTC, and some times Le mans, and maybe F1. Nascar could be descent if they were either closer to real cars, could turn left, AND right, and werent limited in everything, aerodynamics, hp,weight, probably torque, its just drafting... lame. Go JGTC, where an MR-S can beat a ferrari 360

The best type of racing the racing that happens at midnight with a clutch of 20-something kids and a Honda Civic against a Golf GTI.

The kind that produces games with the word "underground" in it.

What a farce!
The Michelin teams pull out because it's unsafe to race, fair enough, but Michelin comes up with two solutions.
1. Let us use new tyres brought in from France.
2. Put in a chicane at turn 13 to reduce pressure on the tyre.

They're not allowed to introduce new tyre because "That would break to many regulations".
The FIA then stop them putting in a chicane, why? Good question, anyone got a decent answer?
The Michelin teams then say "Ok, we'll race with a chicane, and we'll either allow the Bridgestone shod teams to start ahead of us on the grid, We'll all start from the pitlane or we'll have a non-championship race and we won't get any points".
FIA says no.

So Michelin teams don't start. Minardi is willing to support Michelin teams, but because Jordan decided that they would compete Minardi also competes in order to not completely lose out on Championship position.
Ferrari maintains that it has nothing to do with them and it is the FIA's business.

During the race (HA!) where Schumacher and Barrichello are, for once, seemingly fighting for position, Barrichello is forced off-track or hit his team mate recovering from the pitlane. Shortly afterward Ferrari inform Barrichello to "Hold position, save revs, and bring the car home". Strange that Barrichello is catching Schumacher at this point, oh and aren't team orders banned?

So to conclude (sorry about length of rant) but this whole story could have been averted simply by the FIA thinking about the sport as a whole, rather than their position as upholders of regulations, especially as this could have been a non-championship race. Also, since they FIA upheld regulations banning the introduction of a chicane, and Michelin importing tyres, should not Ferrari now also be penalised for team orders which were banned last year (or was it 2003?) due to Ferrari contriving the race finish?
It's a sad day for Formula 1, and a complete balls up for the FIA!

Bernie Eccel'stoned' Deserived it, You just dont call "Americas Sweethart" Danaca Patrick A Domestic Appliance

Bernie Eccel'stoned' Deserived it, You just dont call "Americas Sweethart" Danaca Patrick A Domestic Appliance
That ain't right. When'd he do that?

good racing is WRC, JGTC, and some times Le mans, and maybe F1. Nascar could be descent if they were either closer to real cars, could turn left, AND right, and werent limited in everything, aerodynamics, hp,weight, probably torque, its just drafting... lame. Go JGTC, where an MR-S can beat a ferrari 360
NASCAR races at Watkins Glen and Sears Point every season, both very tough road courses. The restrictions in NASCAR manage to make the racing very close rather than causing more than half the team to pull out of a race the day before. Yes, it's Taurus in name only-but the important part is that the racing is close and since the cars are spec for the most part it is a driver/crew struggle-it's where the oval comes in, if the cars are so evenly matched and on an oval it takes a lot of strategy and skill to eek out that extra little bit to get ahead. No, it's not my favorite (my favorite ended at 7am for me this morning and takes place in the south of France), but as a racing fan I can recognize a good race when I see it.

WRC is not a spectator friendly sport. You can't watch it as a sport because you have no sense of the race. You're just watching a highlight reel and reading a result sheet. As a test, it's tops, best kind of racing-as a spectator sport, not so much. I might as well be watching a stunt show.

I haven't seen the JGTC, but in principle I like it. Le Mans was fantastic this year, decided in the final hour.

Yes, it's Taurus in name only
What about the Monte Carlos and Chargers?

FIA are a bunch of clowns that is just begging to be portrayed in a B-movie Comedy. If F1 went tits-up. I wouldn't be all that surprised and not even disapointed. It started going south around the same time Senna died (RIP).

NASCAR just doens't do it for me, but it IS one of the pinnacles of motorsport today. I just wish the series wasn't so nauseatingly commercial. I mean, come on, the Batman Returns 400? Who ever thought that one up should be chewed to death by a thousand rabid hamsters.

The SCCA races are much more interesting than all the big leagues. You still have privateers...you can compete in all the races, or just one, its about the racing, not the series. All those different classes are neat too. Professional Motorsports went downhill when all privateers were squeezed out by the expenses. You could never compete in F1 as a privateer, even if you had billions of dollars.


My favourite type of race is Rally Raid (Paris-Dakkar, etc.) but they get no coverage over here. Even Paris-Dakkar only merits lousy 30 minutes a day when its on, and the commentators are now all a bunch of Americans with their heads so far up their ass they don't even know what a Rally Raid race is.

FIA are a bunch of clowns that is just begging to be portrayed in a B-movie Comedy. If F1 went tits-up. I wouldn't be all that surprised and not even disapointed. It started going south around the same time Senna died (RIP).
F1 has been fantastic towards the end of last season and so far this season. the US GP was just a result of Ferrari deliberately going against what all the other teams want, just to try and drive a wedge between them

the political situation that caused that farce is more complicated than most people realised, and its all about two different ideas of how the sport should be run in the future. It looks like the F1 side has lost, and the GPWC side has won. Which i think is a good thing, because F1 has failed to listen to its participants. GPWC would just be another formula running Grand Prix racing, instead of the F1 formula running it. a change has happened in the past, and it will happen in the future, unless something serious happens.

F1 has more complicated politics than most countries, and its a deadly serious multi billion pound business.

Today was a farce, but F1 is far from a joke


But yes, the FIA are entirely to blame for the situation

What about the Monte Carlos and Chargers?
I believe they use the Avenger, not the Charger.

No, it's a Charger.

No, it's a Charger.
Okay.

Bernie Eccel'stoned' Deserived it, You just dont call "Americas Sweethart" Danaca Patrick A Domestic Appliance
he said "She did a good job, didn't she? Super. Didn't think she'd be able to make it like that. You know, I've got one of these wonderful ideas that women should be all dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances"

Im not entirely sure if he was trying to make a joke....

he said "She did a good job, didn't she? Super. Didn't think she'd be able to make it like that. You know, I've got one of these wonderful ideas that women should be all dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances"

Im not entirely sure if he was trying to make a joke....
Yeah, I looked that up too. It's kinda worse, really. What a dinosaur...

Yeah, I looked that up too. It's kinda worse, really. What a dinosaur...
Shocking, really, isn't it?

I can only hope it was said entirely as a joke that would have been obvious if you had been there.

Still, he's 75, he'll be gone soon enough.

Anybody watching this so-called race? Thoughts?

I find it exceedingly dull. NASCAR and Indy Car Racing are better than F1 Racing.

I find it exceedingly dull. NASCAR and Indy Car Racing are better than F1 Racing.
Which is why nobody outside of the US really gives them the time of day, while F1 gets hundreds of millions of viewers worldwide? :p

nah, only kidding, each to their own...oval racing just isnt my thing

Which is why nobody outside of the US really gives them the time of day, while F1 gets hundreds of millions of viewers worldwide? :p

nah, only kidding, each to their own...oval racing just isnt my thing

I cant wait for terradaga to take place (Taladaga for those that don't know what I'm reffering too)! That is one of the best races to watch :D

Anyway, I tried to watch a couple of F1 races but I got bored with it really fast.

I cant wait for terradaga to take place (Taladaga for those that don't know what I'm reffering too)! That is one of the best races to watch :D

I've tried watching NASCAR, but I have never understood the attraction...a bunch of cars turning left for a couple of hundred laps.

I know oval racing is a skill, but at least in F1 there are heavy braking zones, acceleration out of slower corners, gradient changes, quick direction changes...stuff that I cant help but think challenges the driver more than NASCAR...especially in a 900bhp 500kg car.

Anyway, I tried to watch a couple of F1 races but I got bored with it really fast.
I think the main problem with that is that the TV coverage usually sucks...they have a really good habit of missing the action (for there is always plenty, even if you dont see it) and just focusing on the leaders. Thankfully this season they seem to have got over that and are now showing what is really a very exciting season. Alonso stretching a lead because of Mclarens reliability issues, and now Raikkonen coming back with 3 wins from 4.

Formula One is less instant than NASCAR, less overtaking, but i always think thats good....hightens the tension, and when you finally get a move you can appreciate someone being simply outdriven through an S bend, or outbreaked into a hairpin. Its less regular, but more rewarding if you can wait.

Schumacher could only win a race when 14 cars pulled out at the start...

huge contrast from last season where he won almost everything

But anyway, the 2005 F1 season is one of the best in years, if ever there was a time to start watching it was this year...but its going to be remembered for all the wrong reasons, unfortunately

Well... The next F1 race on TV here, I'll try watching it again.

I think the main problem with that is that the TV coverage usually sucks...they have a really good habit of missing the action (for there is always plenty, even if you dont see it) and just focusing on the leaders. Thankfully this season they seem to have got over that and are now showing what is really a very exciting season. Alonso stretching a lead because of Mclarens reliability issues, and now Raikkonen coming back with 3 wins from 4.

Formula One is less instant than NASCAR, less overtaking, but i always think thats good....hightens the tension, and when you finally get a move you can appreciate someone being simply outdriven through an S bend, or outbreaked into a hairpin. Its less regular, but more rewarding if you can wait.

Schumacher could only win a race when 14 cars pulled out at the start...

huge contrast from last season where he won almost everything

But anyway, the 2005 F1 season is one of the best in years, if ever there was a time to start watching it was this year...but its going to be remembered for all the wrong reasons, unfortunately


You mean the "6 car race" wasn't a euphemism for when the front six cars dominated and the rest just disappeared? There really was only 6 cars?

I feel so sorry for the crowd. I do like F1, it has it's moments, but for the life of me I can't sit through and watch it all... I suppose there's a tactic to timing stops, etc... but I can't help feeling that they should run 2 races about 20 laps each, like Motorbike races do. I still say that if they slowed the cars down, turned the electronics off, and widened the courses, I'd be able to watch it for a LOT longer.

(Nadkor, another tellygram :D)

You mean the "6 car race" wasn't a euphemism for when the front six cars dominated and the rest just disappeared? There really was only 6 cars?
yup, there really were only 6 cars. bit of a farce really. the other 14 pulled out at the start.

I feel so sorry for the crowd. I do like F1, it has it's moments, but for the life of me I can't sit through and watch it all... I suppose there's a tactic to timing stops, etc... but I can't help feeling that they should run 2 races about 20 laps each, like Motorbike races do. I still say that if they slowed the cars down, turned the electronics off, and widened the courses, I'd be able to watch it for a LOT longer.
Aye, theyre talking about doing that for 2008

reducing the size of the wings, getting rid of the electronics, and making more mechanical grip. the problem these days is that with the reliance on perfect and very complicated aerodynamics, when you get too close to another car you lose grip because youre in their 'dirty air'. if they remove areo reliance, and increase mechanical grip, that wont be such a problem, and overtaking should increase

(Nadkor, another tellygram :D)
I have a telegram? I never check them :p

Racing is only exciting for the people racing and the people betting on it. Wow, people drive around in the same pattern for a couple hours, occassionally wreck, wow.

Ihatevacations']Racing is only exciting for the people racing and the people betting on it. Wow, people drive around in the same pattern for a couple hours, occassionally wreck, wow.

Hey dude,

its those crashes that make it worth watching :D

Ihatevacations']Racing is only exciting for the people racing and the people betting on it. Wow, people drive around in the same pattern for a couple hours, occassionally wreck, wow.

You can say that for all sports, activities, and for life itself. it's a really moot argument, unless you're a total nihilist. And if you are, what's the point of arguing?

You can say that for all sports, activities, and for life itself. it's a really moot argument, unless you're a total nihilist. And if you are, what's the point of arguing?
Does ANY other "sport" involve doing the EXACT same thing, liek driving in an exact pattern, for more than an hour? Don't count on it. Even golf at least involves them hitting the ball in more than one place a dozen times

Ihatevacations']Does ANY other "sport" involve doing the EXACT same thing, liek driving in an exact pattern, for more than an hour? Don't count on it. Even golf at least involves them hitting the ball in more than one place a dozen times
if it was just a car driving round in circles for an hour, then it would be tedious

but it isnt just that, so your argument is kinda null

if it was just a car driving round in circles for an hour, then it would be tedious

but it isnt just that, so your argument is kinda null
Then what is it? I don't think the tracks change on the fly

Ihatevacations']Does ANY other "sport" involve doing the EXACT same thing, liek driving in an exact pattern, for more than an hour? Don't count on it. Even golf at least involves them hitting the ball in more than one place a dozen times

if you see really good racing, you'll notice that it's much more tactical than that. if they raced in an exact pattern, then there'd be no overtaking and they'd finish in the positions they start in. watch a good motorbike race, and you'll see the first 5 places constantly switching around and around as they overtake each other, it can be thrilling stuff.

And yes, they do the exact same thing.

Football, both soccer and American, involves running from one end of a field to the other in an attempt to score a goal, and that lasts for quite some length of time. Same for rugby. Tennis has it too, trying to hit the ball past the person, it goes back and forward until someone manages it... sports rely on repetition.

Well, except Calvinball.

Tennis is jsut as bad as racing, its jsut exact repetitiveness with no real variation. Changing positions doesn't mean they arn't racing around in circles for 2 hours

Ihatevacations']Then what is it? I don't think the tracks change on the fly
its 20 cars going round a circuit, passing each other, trying to pass each other, running into each other, pitting, running wide, battles between rivals, battles between teammates, battles between teams.....the drivers racing each other. not just a couple of cars driving round in circles, there is alot of action. and its personalities pitted against each other.




telegram for Jordaxia

The NBA Finals are on. But I guess that's just a two team race, huh? Still, alleyoops are cool, there's no denying. A lot cooler than just driving fast and possibly dying.

So some of you aren't into racing. You're sharing that here, why exactly? Lot of people on this board aren't into racing, so they never clicked on the thread and never hit 'reply.' We can take that as an assumption that they don't care. Not everything is for everybody, thats cool. I don't feel the need to reply to every thread myself.

But you few, you didn't want to leave any doubt. You had to make sure that you specificly don't understand racing. Further, that we should know your preference. Great. Fantastic. Thanks for sharing. I'm a little lost on how this addresses the subject of F1s internal politics and how it effected the race at Indianapolis, but hey-there you are. Maybe there is a world you live in where you are only allowed to appriciate one sport and have to attack fans of another or you lose your cool points or something. I don't know.

How is it Ferrari's fault for the six car race?
Whats wrong with the Hungarian German(Schu?)
Really i should support Mclaren but i dont why should i support Mclaren?
Cookie for an answer! ;)

How is it Ferrari's fault for the six car race?
I think because they wouldn't refuse to race with the other teams, and that they are the only team to have signed to compete beyond 2007, where the rest of the teams are threating to make their own series if Ecclestone doesn't meet their demands.
Whats wrong with the Hungarian German(Schu?)
He is kinda snotty, but it's probably just 'cause he wins a lot and everyone hates a winner. And a loser. What we really love are middling players...(not really, but that was the only place for that sentence to go...)
Really i should support Mclaren but i dont why should i support Mclaren?
Cookie for an answer! ;)
No idea. Damn, and I really could have gone for a cookie, too....

I think because they wouldn't refuse to race with the other teams, and that they are the only team to have signed to compete beyond 2007, where the rest of the teams are threating to make their own series if Ecclestone doesn't meet their demands.

He is kinda snotty, but it's probably just 'cause he wins a lot and everyone hates a winner. And a loser. What we really love are middling players...(not really, but that was the only place for that sentence to go...)

No idea. Damn, and I really could have gone for a cookie, too....
But Minardi and whoever also raced.

When you look at it Ferrari needs the points and i heard Schu and Barra almost collided.

I dont think hes too arrogant but i do accept he can get a little aggressive at times.

Ecclestone is funny what he said about Women in the Kitchen was classic!
Mclaren was a New Zealander

But Minardi and whoever also raced.

When you look at it Ferrari needs the points and i heard Schu and Barra almost collided.

I dont think hes too arrogant but i do accept he can get a little aggressive at times.

Ecclestone is funny what he said about Women in the Kitchen was classic!
Mclaren was a New Zealander
Yeah, but no one is looking for reasons to be mad at Minardi.

That Ferrari was whoring for points instead of standing up for the safety of the other drivers and respecting the competition by wanting all drivers there doesn't help.

My main impression of Shuie is the diving starts and attempts to take out people in the points race with him, but mainly from back when he was dicing with Hill and Jaques when I could watch F1 on american television regularly. Thats kinda dick.

Bernie is almost like a cartoon character at this point, isn't he? Weird. Too bad Danica is in IRL instead of CART, it'd be great if she was able to make the jump and make a showing in F1. I don't think open wheel oval racing is a good stepping stone, unfortunately...

I didn't know that...I guess with a name like Bruce...

Yeah, but no one is looking for reasons to be mad at Minardi.

That Ferrari was whoring for points instead of standing up for the safety of the other drivers and respecting the competition by wanting all drivers there doesn't help.

My main impression of Shuie is the diving starts and attempts to take out people in the points race with him, but mainly from back when he was dicing with Hill and Jaques when I could watch F1 on american television regularly. Thats kinda dick.

Bernie is almost like a cartoon character at this point, isn't he? Weird. Too bad Danica is in IRL instead of CART, it'd be great if she was able to make the jump and make a showing in F1. I don't think open wheel oval racing is a good stepping stone, unfortunately...

I didn't know that...I guess with a name like Bruce...
Ferrari needs the points the thing with the F1 is it is so great but because of the Tech stuff people dont feel like its about the drivers anymore.

F1 and the American circuits split in the early 20C right?
And its obvious track racing is better than oval she has proved she can lock her wheel to the left and go in circles.

Montoya? proved the switch can be made from America to the real deal.

Schu is a German i think that explains it all. :p

What actually happened? What was wrong with the tires? Even the F1 site hasn't informed of what was wrong with them, just that there was a problem. What happened to the tires?

The real problem will be if Ferrari or schumucker win the championship by say 7 or 8 points

The American track had an extra long straight.

Well it turns out the Michellen tyres dont like this and are prone to going POP!

This is the reason why Ralph spun out(Or so ive heard)

Of the 20 Cars to start 14 pulled out
Leaving 6
Ferrari-Who need the points cause they know they can win season
Minarrdi-Who just want to get some points
Others-Points What are they?

SO all six cars had the potential to collect in this round

What actually happened? What was wrong with the tires? Even the F1 site hasn't informed of what was wrong with them, just that there was a problem. What happened to the tires?

Michelin said they wern't safe for racing in with the current layout of the course, thats why they wanted a chicane and the FIA refused

Ferrari needs the points the thing with the F1 is it is so great but because of the Tech stuff people dont feel like its about the drivers anymore.

F1 and the American circuits split in the early 20C right?
And its obvious track racing is better than oval she has proved she can lock her wheel to the left and go in circles.

Montoya? proved the switch can be made from America to the real deal.

Schu is a German i think that explains it all. :p
In theory it should be both. In theory...

I think the last American GP was either Dallas in 82 or LA or Las Vegas. A quick google would tell me but I'm too lazy...

IRL split from CART in the 80s, and CART itself was a result of a similar revolt like whats happening in F1.

Patrick is from IRL-all ovals all the time. There is more to it than locking left, but being good at that doesn't neccisarily translate to good at road courses.

Montoya came from CART-which does the road courses. Patrick would have to come from there. She might secretly (or publicly, I know little about her) be one badass road racer. I don't really know.

Of all the races this weekend the best one was the 24hr of Le Mans. All three classes had tension up to an hour before it ended.

The American track had an extra long straight.

Well it turns out the Michellen tyres dont like this and are prone to going POP!

This is the reason why Ralph spun out(Or so ive heard)

Of the 20 Cars to start 14 pulled out
Leaving 6
Ferrari-Who need the points cause they know they can win season
Minarrdi-Who just want to get some points
Others-Points What are they?

SO all six cars had the potential to collect in this round

The thing was they all new the final standings so they didn't even really push it

In theory it should be both. In theory...

Patrick is from IRL-all ovals all the time. There is more to it than locking left, but being good at that doesn't neccisarily translate to good at road courses.

Montoya came from CART-which does the road courses. Patrick would have to come from there. She might secretly (or publicly, I know little about her) be one badass road racer. I don't really know.

I know its more than Locking the wheel. :rolleyes:

I think in 1908 or something the two bodies were created.

Well she is Female so im sure she cant drive. :p
(Of course if she was Asian and over 64 then it would be a certain thing)

Tbh, the whole bunch of them, FIA, Schumacher, all the teams, Michelin and imparticular that parasite of a human being, Mr. Bernie Ecclestone, made fools of themselves.

I feel for those who paid good money to see that.

Tbh, the whole bunch of them, FIA, Schumacher, all the teams, Michelin and imparticular that parasite of a human being, Mr. Bernie Ecclestone, made fools of themselves.

I feel for those who paid good money to see that.
Yeah but what would have been better is if they had raced around backwards with little Parasoles out the canopy and the ground speakers playing Ride Of the Valkyries then it would have been a Spectacle worth watching.....

EDIT:Raced around at 40MPH backwards...

Yeah but what would have been better is if they had raced around backwards with little Parasoles out the canopy and the ground speakers playing Ride Of the Valkyries then it would have been a Spectacle worth watching.....

EDIT:Raced around at 40MPH backwards...

:D

Tbh, the whole bunch of them, FIA, Schumacher, all the teams, Michelin and imparticular that parasite of a human being, Mr. Bernie Ecclestone, made fools of themselves.

I feel for those who paid good money to see that.Michelin did the right thing...there was a security concern and they informed the teams and the FIA...even if they risk taking a big hit on their sales...

I know...I know...Michelin consumer tires have nothing to do with F1 tires...
but some consumers are idiots, tires have few things setting them appart (we almost no buying criteria for tires...migth as well choose the tires that never had accidents at F1 :rolleyes: )

Michelin main selling point is security...and I would buy them as long as their consumer safety record is as good as the best..

:D
I try. :p
Maybe if they had been driving in slicks but front tyres on the bac and back on the front and if they switched cars after every lap hmmmm.

Michelin did the right thing...there was a security concern and they informed the teams and the FIA...even if they risk taking a big hit on their sales...

Michelin did the right thing but FIA didn't.

Michelin did the right thing but FIA didn't.exactamente.

also..it makes me sick when other pilots (Reubens Barichelo..Eddie Irvine.. etc) are told to slow down...so Schuitmaker can get the championship points on a silver plate. :mad:

exactamente.

also..it makes me sick when other pilots (Irvine, Barichelo, etc) are told to slow down...so Schuitmaker can get the championship points on a silver plate.
OMG EDDIE ERVINE havent heard his name in ages! :)
The Racers name is worth more than the Manufacturers in the sense that if Schu wins the Drivers hes also collecting Construtors points where as if the Drivers points are split between Barra and Schu you get the Constructors but not necassarily the Drivers.

Your right though it is evil.

exactamente.

also..it makes me sick when other pilots (Reubens Barichelo..Eddie Irvine.. etc) are told to slow down...so Schuitmaker can get the championship points on a silver plate. :mad:
Most (if not all) teams do that. It's annoying but certainly not only Ferrari's problem. Barrichello just made a huge number of it.

Most (if not all) teams do that.I want names and dates.

Michelin did the right thing...there was a security concern and they informed the teams and the FIA...even if they risk taking a big hit on their sales...

I know...I know...Michelin consumer tires have nothing to do with F1 tires...
but some consumers are idiots, tires have few things setting them appart (we almost no buying criteria for tires...migth as well choose the tires that never had accidents at F1 :rolleyes: )

Michelin main selling point is security...and I would buy them as long as their consumer safety record is as good as the best..

Ah you're right, but they still don't come out of this looking great by the simple fact they can't build a tyre to take part in the race.

But they did the right thing by advising against the use of them.

I want names and dates.

Raikonnen and Coultard, 1st race, season before last (i think), Coultard slowed on the last lap to let Raikonnen over take to gain points.

EDIT: 2000 it was, austrailien gp. happy now?

EDIT: You know google works wonders....

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-32,GGLD:en&q=team+orders+%2B+formula+1

I want names and dates.and I give you this to chew on

http://www.itv-f1.com/History.aspx?Type=Circuits
Ferrari controversy
Ferrari’s blatant team orders came to the fore in 2001 and 2002 when Rubens Barrichello was forced to let Michael Schumacher past – on the second occasion gifting the German victory. The move caused uproar and Ferrari were fined $1million for their troubles.

F1 has no passion anymore. The only person racing in F1 who has passion is Schumacher, but his passion has started to die since he realised he could win so easily like last year and winning the year before, and thus, has not got the passion this year.

True Passion in F1 died with Senna. Senna took risks, he made F1 what it was: A sport. He was one of the last, if not the last drivers who took great risks for his passion of striving to win.

In the days of Senna, team policy and team-mate policy did not mean bollocks. His passion was so intense, he would ram his team-mate off the track, or take himself and his team-mate out, for the passion of winning, saying sod off to team policy and team-mate policy. In contrast Schumacher's passion is restricted by adhering to team policy, but Barrichello occasionly shows that frustration, that passion, the could make him a great driver if he tossed aside team policy.

Senna died, we all know that, but he died doing what he loved, it was his passion, and I truly think that the drivers today in F1 lack that passion. They don't want to take risks, they prefer to sit in computer guided and set up cars with computer guided brakes and set up tyres.

They don't want to take risks to win. They want to play it safe.

Driving at 180 mph has risks, but it's safer today than in Senna's time, and the drivers have got too used to being made safe rather being made to have passion.

It's all money and endorsements now. The driving passion and spirit of years past has been crushed and killed by sponsors and tycoons who fear risks and fear money loss and care nothing for the crowd, the sport, or the driver, just corporate money making.

People like Ecclestone and Mosely with their fist hold on F1 have suffocated it of it's character, and the drivers are too pampered, greedy and secure, pocketing a large wage as a reward for driving, not winning, driving, rather than seeing the reward as taking part in a race of risks to win.

;) As an avid F1 fan of many years, I couldn't believe yesterday! I have been a Ferrari fan forever itseems, and even that didn't make it interesting. However, it made the commentators have to earn their money for a change

Raikonnen and Coultard, 1st race, season before last (i think), Coultard slowed on the last lap to let Raikonnen over take to gain points.


EDIT: You know google works wonders....

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-32,GGLD:en&q=team+orders+%2B+formula+1
Räikkönen/Montoya on Canada. But as Montoya failed it was not as clear.

edit: just to add the latest...

huh, I just lost one message completely...

Every team has their number 1 and number 2 drivers. The one who has more points is number 1. I've noticed if the no2 is faster but behind the no1 they have to beg for a permission to take over. Now that you can hear what the drivers say it has become even more obvious.

Well that will be the death of F1 in the States

I agree that it was Michelins fault but what about the Race Director Charlie Whiting ?

Ross Brawn’s drinking buddy released a letter that he got from Michelin with some smart answers as to why they couldn’t use different tyres on Sunday.

But he’s changed the rules for Bridgestone prior to a race so we’ve been here before. It's surprising nobody’s questioned why Whiting changed the tyre rules at the beginning of the 2003 Brazilian GP.

Back in 2003 you were only allowed to take one wet tyre to races, so you had to make your mind up before the event. Bridgestone arrived at Interlagos with their legendary intermediate tyre that was quite good in wet and mixed conditions. Michelin had a full wet that could run in more rain.

When the heavens opened before the race, Whiting delayed the start because the Bridgestone runners wouldn’t have been able to make it round safely. It was clearly Bridgestone’s fault for not bringing a full wet tyre, but as the argument has gone this weekend – they knew the situation…

After delaying the start the field was then sent round Interlagos behind the Safety Car until enough water was taken off the circuit. Had they released the field when it was suitable for the Michelins on full wets, then Fisichella would never have won the race in his Jordan and Kimi Raikkonen may well have got the win.

Nobody complained because it was a safety issue. Fast forward two years and Whiting is not prepared to compromise in another safety situation. This interpretation of the rules when it suits them makes F1 fans deeply suspicius - it's like there was an agenda here from the FIA.


http://www.planet-f1.com/features/race_features/story_19992.shtml

The blame for yesterdays...race? can be spread quite evenly between different players.

Michelin: TYRES ARE USELESS! Ok, so believe it or not that's not entirely fair. The tyres were designed using year old information of the Indianapolis track which was recently resurfaced using a harder, more abrasive surface. Due to the specs of the modern Michelin tyre, this more abrasive surface heated the tyre faster and, due to the tracks new surface retaining more heat than on previous occasions, heated the outside edge of the right rear tyre wall to bursting point.
Bridgestone was unaffected for two reasons. 1. They use a different construction for their tyre, making it more rigid, but consequently on almost every other track this season, less competitive. 2. They had information about the new track surface from their US subsidiary Firestone.
Michelin requested that two different solutions be made.
1. The introduction of a new compound to be flown in from France which would, hopefully, provide a safer, more rigid tyre for its teams.
2. Construct a chicane before turn 13 which would massively decrease the load placed on the right-rear tyre so reducing the possibility that the heat/load bias reach its critical point. Both were rejected, so for safety reasons Michelin informed its teams to remain in the garages.

The FIA: The FIA had, within its power, the ability to stop the farce that occured. Not allowing Michelin to introduce a new tyre compound could be seen as common sense, as none of the teams would have run this new spec tyre so it could have been dangerous. So the FIA was given solutions by Michelin and it's teams in order to keep the race.
Introduction of a chicane (as mentioned above) but the race going ahead with one of three senarios.
1. All Bridgestone shod cars moved to the front of the grid, providing them with an automatic advantage.
2. Non-championship race. No teams would score points, but the public would still get a race.
3. Non-scoring race for Michelin teams. Believe it or not, this was actually suggested! But, again, the FIA said no.

The Teams (primarily Ferrari and Jordan/Midland): If Ferrari had, for once, actually thought about the sport rather than just their own self interest then the Concorde Agreement could have been enacted and the chicane constructed and the race gone ahead with. When this didn't happen, Jordan decided that, should Ferrari race then they would also. This was a mistake as it then split the groups between the 9vsFerrari/FIA and limited the power of the other teams to force a deal.
As soon as Jordan agrees to race, Minardi are then inclined to race as Jordan is their only competition that they have any chance of beating (which ultimately didn't happen). With Jordan racing, Minardi feels itself obliged to compete as they can't afford not to as it will be (most likely) their only chance to score points (now placing them ahead of BAR).

Ferrari: Ok, so the race is happening, if you can call it that, but Ferrari kick Formula 1 down in flames during the race. Why? Simple. For the first 2/3rds of the race the two leading cars seem to be racing. After the second stop Schumacher just beats Barrichello to the first corner at the end of the pitlane. Afterwards Barrichello starts to fight back, closing down on Michael. We might not get a good race, but at least what there is of it might have an exciting finish as the two Ferrari's go hammer and tongs against each other, but alas, Ferrari return to form.
"Hold positions, ease revs and bring the cars home". And with that, if Formula 1 wasn't dead in the US, Ferrari put the last nail into the coffin.

"Michael Schumacher
Presumably after this race Michael Schumacher will be resigning from his position in the Grand Prix Drivers Association. He’s supposed to be the guy in charge of F1 safety yet he’s racing for a team who weren’t prepared to support it

His position now is untenable.

In the race he had a barging incident with Rubens, but unlike many others, this time he didn’t intend to do it. Once he locked up his brakes into Turn 1 he could do nothing to avoid the other Ferrari. It was robust but it looked accidentally robust."

Hypocrite much?

"Michael Schumacher
Presumably after this race Michael Schumacher will be resigning from his position in the Grand Prix Drivers Association. He’s supposed to be the guy in charge of F1 safety yet he’s racing for a team who weren’t prepared to support it

His position now is untenable.

In the race he had a barging incident with Rubens, but unlike many others, this time he didn’t intend to do it. Once he locked up his brakes into Turn 1 he could do nothing to avoid the other Ferrari. It was robust but it looked accidentally robust."

Hypocrite much?
Agreed. All the drivers should have said they weren't racing, especially those involved in the GPDA. If they had done that they would have to have done something. I think the only drivers who should have been concerned about that were the Jordan drivers and Barrichello, no one else really had much to lose.

I remember ages ago when they were trying to perfect the design underneath the car so it would generate suction - those were the days. Every once in a while, a car would lose suction, air would catch under the car, and the whole car would go airborne flipping backwards at speed -- usually in the middle of a turn.

Doesn't seem to happen anymore. Those cars might as well be riding on rails.

Agreed. All the drivers should have said they weren't racing, especially those involved in the GPDA. If they had done that they would have to have done something. I think the only drivers who should have been concerned about that were the Jordan drivers and Barrichello, no one else really had much to lose.

Minardi Claimed that they only raced to keep up with Jordan, so if that was the only reason they were very aware that Jordan were running considering the decision was only made 5 min before the race

I can't believe this:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33198

"The Ferrari drivers reckon they would have won the United States Grand Prix even if the Michelin teams had raced.
In the event, Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello were left with no meaningful competition when all 14 Michelin cars withdrew before the start.
“Ferrari were starting fifth and seventh but we had the fastest car and we would have come through very rapidly,” Barrichello told ITV’s Louise Goodman.
Schumacher agreed with his team-mate.
“We had a car to win here anyway,” said the world champion, whose victory ended a nine-race losing streak."

I didn't like him before but the sheer arrogance of the man I mean they qualified 6th and 7th IIRC and they claim they would have won anyway

The Only way f1 would be popular here is if they ran a 1.5 mile Cookie cutter oval*COUGHTEXASCOUGH*

I agree that it was Michelins fault but what about the Race Director Charlie Whiting ?Michelin did the rigth thing, all proposals where reasonable...but Im sure Schuitmaker prefered to get the win on silver plate...

What actually happened? What was wrong with the tires? Even the F1 site hasn't informed of what was wrong with them, just that there was a problem. What happened to the tires?
Indy got resurfaced, or diamond cut, or something. Bridgestone knew all about it because of then running Firestones in the Indy 500, but it seems that nobody bothered to inform Michelin, so they turned up with normal Indy spec tyres.

Two Toyotas crashed on the Friday, and there were 11 other Michelin failures. All left rears. Michelin then said it couldnt guarantee the safety of its tyres.

They gave plenty of warning for a solution to be thought of.

Michelin offered to bring safe tyres over, but the FIA (who dont forget are constantly introducing stupid regulations in the name of "safety") wouldnt let them.

They then said that unless there was a chicane on turn 13, they wouldnt be able to guarantee the safety of their tyres.

So the teams said they wouldnt race without a chicane. All the teams except Ferrari that is


now, for the last few months there has been the "9 teams" (Mclaren, Renault, Williams, Sauber, BAR, Red Bull, Toyota, Minardi and Jordan), along with the GPWC, against Ferrari and Eccelstone (supported by the FIA).

Theyve been wrestling over who gets what control over the sport in 2--8, when the current agreement runs out.

Theyve had disagreements over everything. the 9 teams agreed to limit testing so that the smaller teams would have a better chance, but Ferrari refused to (and the 9 teams have stuck to their agreement, while Ferrari have been off testing 3 cars at a time at their own private test track).

Ecclestone then negotiated a deal with Ferrari that would give them 30%+ of the teams TV revenue from 2008 on....leaving less than 70% to be split amongst the other 9 teams.

Of course, the 9 werent happy about this, and the GPWC has just become more and more of a reality as time has passed.

Ron Dennis (boss of Mclaren), then "accidently" let slip that all the other teams have to pay Ferrari money anyway for their "historical contribution"....which is, frankly, a ridiculous situation.

So, Ferrari refused to agree to the chicane (Ferrari vs the 9 again), and the FIA stuck by them.

Michelin teams went out on the parade lap, and pulled in as promised.

6 car grid

as for Jordan, they agreed not to go out, but then broke the agreement...probably hoping that Minardi would pit anyway, and then they would get easy points and more money next season. They are just as bad as the FIA.

the FIA let their own politics get in the way of what was good for the sport, and they might well have damaged it irreparably. Michelin gave them plenty of warning that there was a problem, and the FIA completely failed to deal with it.

Max Mosley must now go as President of the FIA, he will have lost all support on the council, and will surely be voted out. However, the man hes been putting forward as his replacement is non other than Jean Todt....boss of Ferrari.


thats a simplified run down of the political events that led to the fiasco yesterday

who were those idiots throwing beer cans and stuff onto the track. Is that a reasonable way to behave.

I hope they forfeit any potential refunds on offer, due to their stupidity

Michelin did the rigth thing, all proposals where reasonable...but Im sure Schuitmaker prefered to get the win on silver plate...

Michelin did do the right thing but they should have known in advance, I thought that was what testing was for. The thing is Ferrari wanted to end a nine race dry patch and get back into the drivers and constuctors championship

So basically I'm agreeing ;)

Michelin did do the right thing but they should have known in advance, I thought that was what testing was for.
No testing at Indy :p

Well, there's always NASCAR.
I'm sorry Nascar is a joke, its nothing but a load of highschool sports jocks driving round a ring in the cars bought for them by their rich parents, or at least an extension of that

No testing at Indy :p
Joke, and Bridgestone knew? Well everyone seems to be at fault now except the teams that pulled out

Joke, and Bridgestone knew? Well everyone seems to be at fault now except the teams that pulled out
Pretty much, yup.

as far as i can see, the demands and actions of the teams that withdrew (and if we include Minardi) were driven out of a desire to give the fans what they paid for, and to put on a show. the demands and actions of Ferrari, Jordan and the FIA were driven purely by politics, and massive shortsightedness. they may have won that particular political battle, but they have kicked the sport when its down.

But on the plus side we may never have to watch another Grand Prix at the Indianapolis Mickey-Mouse Speedway. If only something like this could happen at the Hungaroring too!

The Canadian Grand Prix was pretty fun. It was kind of a let down that BOTH Renaults that were in 1st and 2nd for a good chunk of the race DNF. My Villeneuve just missed a point-paying position :(

I find the whole affair rather dull, generally.

Why don't people like Schumacher? What did he do?

And you think F1 is dull, but NASCAR is exciting? Aren't they going around in circles most of the time?

I reckon it's primarily Michelin's fault. Ferrari should've just said: Okay, we put in the chicane, but the Michelin teams don't score points.
We would've had a race, and Ferrari would've gotten the points.

I'm sorry Nascar is a joke, its nothing but a load of highschool sports jocks driving round a ring in the cars bought for them by their rich parents, or at least an extension of that
You're seriously going to pull the 'rich parents' in a comparison of NASCAR and Formula 1???? Seriously?

NASCAR is the 'good ol' boy' racing, stemming from barn dwelling grease monkey blue collar workers on weekends. Even in todays high-ticket world the pit crews are made up of people with regular 'day jobs' as mechanics and such.

NASCAR is far from my favorite form of racing, but increasingly it seems that it's detractors simply know nothing about it.

Just a quick off-topic question, is there a difference between tires and tyres? I would assume it's just a difference between America and Europe, like color and colour, favorite and favourite. I probably coudl have used just one example there.

NASCAR is far from my favorite form of racing, but increasingly it seems that it's detractors simply know nothing about it.
I just really dislike American cars in general, and that's why I don't like NASCAR. I mean, these cars can't even get their power on the ground most of the time.
An F1 car can. And so does a DTM racer or even a V8 Supercar. And those all have proper circuits, and not ovals to race on (some of the time).

biggest. farce. ever

Michelin are to blame for the tyre problem, Ferrari are to blame for the 6 car race.
how dare you try to blame ferrari, it's not their fault they choose a tire company that knows what its doing
they can not just stop and loss points because everyone else can not plan ahead

you would not even be talking about this if bridgestone have the problem instead of michelin

bring back one tire company to F1

I just really dislike American cars in general, and that's why I don't like NASCAR. I mean, these cars can't even get their power on the ground most of the time.
An F1 car can. And so does a DTM racer or even a V8 Supercar. And those all have proper circuits, and not ovals to race on (some of the time).

yes oval racing is stupid , and american cars are nothing but powered rams

I just really dislike American cars in general, and that's why I don't like NASCAR. I mean, these cars can't even get their power on the ground most of the time.
An F1 car can. And so does a DTM racer or even a V8 Supercar. And those all have proper circuits, and not ovals to race on (some of the time).
You have to ask yourself, are you watching racing or a pagent? Are you just looking at a demonstration or a competition?

If you just want a pagent, a show of tech thats one thing-but I feel it reduces the racing to nothing more than a stunt show.

I want to watch competition, I want to watch a race. Thats the first thing on my list. Preferably I like sports car racing, for me last weekend was all about the 24hr of Le Mans. But even that race has to be about racing (this year was fantastic with battles in all of the classes coming down to the last 45 minutes).

The reality is, NASCAR is all about the racing. You're not watching that race to daydream about the privilage of driving a Monte Carlo or a Taurus. What they are tuning into is door to door, wheel to wheel, flag to flag racing. Anyone can win, the cars are more or less even and so your watching crews and drivers eek out that extra bit of advantage-figuring out when to hold back and when to go for it. A lot of styles of racing have those elements-but NASCAR has that on the surface week in and week out.

Sure I'd rather watch sports cars, I'd rather see road courses (NASCAR races on two, one is the only NASCAR race I'll attend-at Sears Point). Honestly, if I had a sense of the actual race the whole thing would be about Rally-but when it comes down to it I want to watch a competition, I want a race. NASCAR serves that up regular. (even then I don't watch it that much, but at least I can respect it.)

personally ive been watching f1 racing with my dad since i was a little kid, i find it much more sophisticated than nascar and enjoyable to watch, the entertainment value lies in the finesse and technique of the drivers as opposed to budwieser and car crashes, perhaps this branch of racing appeals to a more european audience for that very reason

I do enjoy Le Mans, GT-Racing, Porsche Cups and so on.
They show next to nothing of that here in Oz though.
And I don't even know what people's problems are. F1 right now is so exciting and close like it hasn't been in ages. We have at least two (now three) actual contenders for the championship, and so far pretty much every race had a lot to offer actionwise.

personally ive been watching f1 racing with my dad since i was a little kid, i find it much more sophisticated than nascar and enjoyable to watch, the entertainment value lies in the finesse and technique of the drivers as opposed to budwieser and car crashes, perhaps this branch of racing appeals to a more european audience for that very reason
Thats reductive. It also suggests that one cannot be a fan of both, it insists that fans of NASCAR like nothing but, which is simply not true. Walk around a NASCAR event and you see plenty of Ferrari red.

To suggest that NASCAR is nothing more than Budwieser and car crashes is to say that you have no idea what NASCAR is.

You also suggest that there is no finesse or technique to NASCAR, which is just willful blindness. 40 evenly matched cars on the road for upwards of 500 miles, technique and finesse are the only things that will get you ahead of them. Further, it underlines the difference in pagent and actual racing. Once you've seen them go through the turns for a 1'45" lap the first five times, what are you still tuned in for, if it's just finesse and technique?

This smacks of someones racing tastes being a coffee table affectation. I'm not trying to impress anyone with my tastes, I'm a fan of racing.

how dare you try to blame ferrari, it's not their fault they choose a tire company that knows what its doing
they can not just stop and loss points because everyone else can not plan ahead

you would not even be talking about this if bridgestone have the problem instead of michelin

bring back one tire company to F1
how dare I blame Ferrari (and the FIA)?

very easily, really.

the FIA had 24 hours to come to a solution, so they should have. The nine teams proposed several solutions that would have got a race going, and Ferrari refused to agree to any of them. So the FIA didnt have to look like they were turning down a united front.

24 hours to come up with a solution....and they didnt, they let their politics get in the way of saving the sport. thats why i blame Ferrari and the FIA for the 6 car grid.

they turned a bad situation on friday into an avoidable farce on sunday

Thats reductive. It also suggests that one cannot be a fan of both, it insists that fans of NASCAR like nothing but, which is simply not true. Walk around a NASCAR event and you see plenty of Ferrari red.

To suggest that NASCAR is nothing more than Budwieser and car crashes is to say that you have no idea what NASCAR is.

You also suggest that there is no finesse or technique to NASCAR, which is just willful blindness. 40 evenly matched cars on the road for upwards of 500 miles, technique and finesse are the only things that will get you ahead of them. Further, it underlines the difference in pagent and actual racing. Once you've seen them go through the turns for a 1'45" lap the first five times, what are you still tuned in for, if it's just finesse and technique?

This smacks of someones racing tastes being a coffee table affectation. I'm not trying to impress anyone with my tastes, I'm a fan of racing.
personally, i just find oval racing plain dull, skillful or not.