NationStates Jolt Archive

why is no one outraged that guantanamo detainees are receiving more nutritious, balanced, and possibly tastier options than children in our schools' free lunch programs?

because the gitmo prisoners have no choice and school kids do? because school lunch is only one meal in the day? because we have no idea what the menu is at gitmo? because we dont begrudge men held without charges a bit of food?

i dunno.

Because the radical 'civil right preservers' of the left would call it starvation and emaciation tactics if they were given anything less than a 7 course meal. Gitmo is under enough hell from the left, whos news affiliates are responsible for 10 deaths after their biased, anti-American, 'check no sources' article which casued up roar and chaos for days in the Middle east when it disclosed that an 'un-named affiliate of Gitmo' told them about the alligations. It sickens me, and it shows how backwards the system is sometimes. If it were up to me, they would get 10 saltines and a good look at their bed pan for lunch.

*raises hand*

Erm, with free lunch I can get as much as kids who pay for their lunch at school. Although the contents are crappy and reheated.

All school food sucks. they aren't forced to eat it though. I can cheaply make myself a cheese and pickle butty and grab an apple. prisoners have no such option.

so what IS this fabulous 7 course menu they serve at gitmo? one of you guys must know since you have railed agaisnt it.

a lot of you refer to the freedom of choice that the kids have, that prisoners don't.

having to choose between grayish lukewarm meat swimming in mystery gravy with no vegetables in sight, and going hungry, is not really much of a choice for kids who come from backgrounds of poverty. i would rather have the choice of declining lemon chicken and rice pilaf than tuna surprise.

Because there's no alleged torture going on at......no, wait a minute....

Heres some meals that are prepared for them. These is from actual Marine testimony, who catre to their every needs like servants while the leftist media says their torturing them.

"Baked Tandouri Chicken Breast, Mustard-Dill Baked Fish, Lyonnaise Rice, and Fish Amandine are just a few of the recipes you'll find in Gitmo. We've tested them, and they are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious." (direct quote)

Goes with my old saying "the more you know..."

Vanikoro: 'check no sources'? Even the pentagon has admitted to Koran abuse going on at guatanamo:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/un/2005/0603koranadmission.htm

As for revealing this being 'unamerican,' how is it unamerican to place checks on the power of the executive to make sure that people are being treated fairly and properly, with the justice and human rights that are a pinnacle of our foreign policy? How is it unamerican to encourage America to get even better? How is it unamerican to criticize, when the whole American Revolution started because the Founding Fathers were willing to criticize the status quo?

As for guatanamo food, I don't know what the source is that's saying it's better than school food, so I can hardly comment. I do think, however, that if we were willing to raise taxes we could fund better food for schools. But this is perhaps a moot point, as it involves taxation.


Amnesty International report on conditions at Guatanamo (if you read the whole thing you won't even want your lunch)

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510632005

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Them terrorists have to PAY!!! (the bill is forwarded to the Terrorist Organization [tm] of their origin)

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Them terrorists have to PAY!!! (the bill is forwarded to the Terrorist Organization [tm] of their origin)
Ya know, that WOULD be funny. :D

As President, just to be a jackass, I'll do just that!

Heres some meals that are prepared for them. These is from actual Marine testimony, who catre to their every needs like servants while the leftist media says their torturing them.

"Baked Tandouri Chicken Breast, Mustard-Dill Baked Fish, Lyonnaise Rice, and Fish Amandine are just a few of the recipes you'll find in Gitmo. We've tested them, and they are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious." (direct quote)

Goes with my old saying "the more you know..."
that is a little off topic. anyhow torture can occur independently of the catering situation.

i started this thread more to illustrate how poorly we treat socioeconomically disadvantaged children, and not to debate whether or not torture is occuring at guantanamo.

if tandoori chicken breast, mustard-dill baked fish, lyonnaise rice, and fish amandine are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious, why aren't they showing up on school lunch menus? should we ask the military to head up our school lunch programs?

why is no one outraged that guantanamo detainees are receiving more nutritious, balanced, and possibly tastier options than children in our schools' free lunch programs?

Or our military who are eating those gourmet MREs. :(

Heres some meals that are prepared for them. These is from actual Marine testimony, who catre to their every needs like servants while the leftist media says their torturing them.

"Baked Tandouri Chicken Breast, Mustard-Dill Baked Fish, Lyonnaise Rice, and Fish Amandine are just a few of the recipes you'll find in Gitmo. We've tested them, and they are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious." (direct quote)

Goes with my old saying "the more you know..."
those are not normally considered lunch items in america. around here, school lunch is a hamburger, chips, fruit and milk. or something similar.

Ya know, that WOULD be funny. :D

As President, just to be a jackass, I'll do just that!

Maybe I'll vote for you. What's your position on the economy?

Maybe I'll vote for you. What's your position on the economy?
To fix it.

Heres some meals that are prepared for them. These is from actual Marine testimony, who catre to their every needs like servants while the leftist media says their torturing them.

"Baked Tandouri Chicken Breast, Mustard-Dill Baked Fish, Lyonnaise Rice, and Fish Amandine are just a few of the recipes you'll find in Gitmo. We've tested them, and they are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious." (direct quote)

Goes with my old saying "the more you know..."

Hey, Marine cooks are not 'servants,' they are Marines and they are proud of what they do. I bet they make some damn good food. I'd brag about it too.

so what makes you think they are all terrorists? I don't believe half of those people are! it's just so the american government can say 'look! we;re doing something about terrorism!' what a load of rubbish! and you've got to think... if the prisoners become undernourished and die, whats the government going to look like then! thats why they're giving them nice meals!

because the gitmo prisoners have no choice and school kids do? because school lunch is only one meal in the day? because we have no idea what the menu is at gitmo? because we dont begrudge men held without charges a bit of food?

i dunno.

Some prisoners in the US local jails get TV dinners, then there are those who get bologna sandwiches. :eek: Gitmo's got it good.

why is no one outraged that guantanamo detainees are receiving more nutritious, balanced, and possibly tastier options than children in our schools' free lunch programs?

My reason is because I used to work in a supermax lockdown unit and I know exactly what it is they really get. It is strictly institutional cooking based solely on established nutritional and caloric needs and cost. They use such things as "Universal Meat Sauce" which is the same thing whether you put it in a sloppy joe, spaghetti, chicken parmesan, or any of a dozen different things. It contain enough fat to be called "meat" and is made of soybeans. If it isn't chicken, turkey or ground pressed fish they don't eat it. You could get the same meal in most any hospital. Even their guards eat it, but would opt in most cases for an MRE believe it or not.
What free lunches consist of is not up to the federal government. Free lunches are a carrot on a stick for states to follow federal guidlines in education. The state gets the money offered and distributes it with guildlines on what is acceptable dietary standards, and then pockets the rest. If the state doesnt follow federal educational mandates, then the bribe is yanked. In other words, you have an additional layer of bureaucrats in the chain to bribe, so naturally the standard is going to be a bit lower so state politicians can divert their cut before the schools get their money.

Some prisoners in the US local jails get TV dinners, then there are those who get bologna sandwiches. :eek: Gitmo's got it good.
yeah, too bad they arent being fed by the marines eh?

Amnesty International report on conditions at Guatanamo (if you read the whole thing you won't even want your lunch)

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510632005

How can an organization that has never been to Gitmo, and admited it on television, give a report on what is going on there? The report can not be factual, it is only speculation. :headbang:

if tandoori chicken breast, mustard-dill baked fish, lyonnaise rice, and fish amandine are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious, why aren't they showing up on school lunch menus? should we ask the military to head up our school lunch programs?

Be careful what you ask for. Remember the troops in the field are eating MRE's. :D

Be careful what you ask for. Remember the troops in the field are eating MRE's. :D

Hehe...ain't it the truth and happy of it.

Some prisoners in the US local jails get TV dinners, then there are those who get bologna sandwiches. :eek: Gitmo's got it good.

I think regular prison conditions are better then Guantanamo's any day of the week.

that is a little off topic. anyhow torture can occur independently of the catering situation.

i started this thread more to illustrate how poorly we treat socioeconomically disadvantaged children, and not to debate whether or not torture is occuring at guantanamo.

if tandoori chicken breast, mustard-dill baked fish, lyonnaise rice, and fish amandine are inexpensive, easy to make, and delicious, why aren't they showing up on school lunch menus?

Because the kids would probably refuse it and request chips, beef burgers etc. I dont dont deny foods like mustard-dill baked fish and lyonnaise rice are great tasting, I just dont think many kids would eat it.

Or our military who are eating those gourmet MREs. :(
hot food from the mess tent is definitely better for soldier morale. but dining in a mobile fighting situation is not directly comparable to prison food, which is much more of a stationary installment.

i've brought mre's camping with me... they're quite decent, and they've got a nifty heating pack that you can use to warm your hands after your food gets hot! of course our soldiers deserve the best... and as far as military rations go, mre's are pretty good.

i would even say mre's are better than some school lunches i've seen, certainly with a much more balanced nutritional profile than some of the slop i've seen in school cafeterias.

I think regular prison conditions are better then Guantanamo's any day of the week.

Think again. As far as lockdown units go that's the Hilton. Most are like ovens with a single 5X8 cell, toilet/sink unit, concrete slab bunk, a piece of polished steel bolted to the wall and a flat writing surface or desk bolted to the wall. A set of steel bars and sliding door with a solid steel door w/bean hole offset 3 feet outside that.

hot food from the mess tent is definitely better for soldier morale. but dining in a mobile fighting situation is not directly comparable to prison food, which is much more of a stationary installment.

i've brought mre's camping with me... they're quite decent, and they've got a nifty heating pack that you can use to warm your hands after your food gets hot! of course our soldiers deserve the best... and as far as military rations go, mre's are pretty good.

i would even say mre's are better than some school lunches i've seen, certainly with a much more balanced nutritional profile than some of the slop i've seen in school cafeterias.

Well, if you gave kids MRE's they would weigh 500 lbs by the end of the first sememster. Remember calories are geared to feed a soldier in combant. Mega calories!

Liverbreath']My reason is because I used to work in a supermax lockdown unit and I know exactly what it is they really get. It is strictly institutional cooking based solely on established nutritional and caloric needs and cost. They use such things as "Universal Meat Sauce" which is the same thing whether you put it in a sloppy joe, spaghetti, chicken parmesan, or any of a dozen different things. It contain enough fat to be called "meat" and is made of soybeans. If it isn't chicken, turkey or ground pressed fish they don't eat it. You could get the same meal in most any hospital. Even their guards eat it, but would opt in most cases for an MRE believe it or not.
What free lunches consist of is not up to the federal government. Free lunches are a carrot on a stick for states to follow federal guidlines in education. The state gets the money offered and distributes it with guildlines on what is acceptable dietary standards, and then pockets the rest. If the state doesnt follow federal educational mandates, then the bribe is yanked. In other words, you have an additional layer of bureaucrats in the chain to bribe, so naturally the standard is going to be a bit lower so state politicians can divert their cut before the schools get their money.
thank you. that is probably the most comprehensive, well thought-out answer to my question.

Liverbreath']Think again. As far as lockdown units go that's the Hilton. Most are like ovens with a single 5X8 cell, toilet/sink unit, concrete slab bunk, a piece of polished steel bolted to the wall and a flat writing surface or desk bolted to the wall. A set of steel bars and sliding door with a solid steel door w/bean hole offset 3 feet outside that.

So we'll just forget about the torture then?

I think regular prison conditions are better then Guantanamo's any day of the week.

I wouldn't know as I have never been in a "regular" prison, not have I been in Gitmo. If you have been in both then you can make that judgment. If you haven't then you have no basis for your opinion other than "stories" from people who haven't been their either. Oh, I forgot you could base your opinion on those unbiased people who have been there and are now released.

Liverbreath']Well, if you gave kids MRE's they would weigh 500 lbs by the end of the first sememster. Remember calories are geared to feed a soldier in combant. Mega calories!
:) i wasn't quite advocating serving mre's in school. there would be significant scaling down of calories involved, i'd imagine. or some massive scaling up of physical education.

Liverbreath']Think again. As far as lockdown units go that's the Hilton. Most are like ovens with a single 5X8 cell, toilet/sink unit, concrete slab bunk, a piece of polished steel bolted to the wall and a flat writing surface or desk bolted to the wall. A set of steel bars and sliding door with a solid steel door w/bean hole offset 3 feet outside that.

Ok, so what are the "regular" cells like, and do the prisoners in those cells eat the same food as those in the lockdown?

Also, do you know what lockdown units in US prisons are like?

I wouldn't know as I have never been in a "regular" prison, not have I been in Gitmo. If you have been in both then you can make that judgment. If you haven't then you have no basis for your opinion other than "stories" from people who haven't been their either. Oh, I forgot you could base your opinion on those unbiased people who have been there and are now released.

I wasnt really basing my post on the food and cell condition but the activities of the guards. I'd rather live in a normal prison cell with normal prison food and guards than say my own home with home cooked food but with the guantanamo guards to attend to me 24 hrs a day.

why is no one outraged that guantanamo detainees are receiving more nutritious, balanced, and possibly tastier options than children in our schools' free lunch programs?

I'll tell you the true outrage here: why are taxpayers' dollars being spent on free school lunches? Tell the damn kids to either pay for their food, or bring their own, the lazy little bastards.

I heard the prisoners eat freeze dried packaged powders and nothing else

So we'll just forget about the torture then?

How does this go from food, to expressions of belief in hyperbole and islamofascist bullshit?

How does this go from food, to expressions of belief in hyperbole and islamofascist bullshit?

With the same mindset that says "We're feeding them so we never torture them at all, not any place in history no sirree."

I wasnt really basing my post on the food and cell condition but the activities of the guards. I'd rather live in a normal prison cell with normal prison food and guards than say my own home with home cooked food but with the guantanamo guards to attend to me 24 hrs a day.

So how are the Gitmo guards any different than the guards in any other prison?

Ok, so what are the "regular" cells like, and do the prisoners in those cells eat the same food as those in the lockdown?

Also, do you know what lockdown units in US prisons are like?

When you say regular cells I will assume that you mean general population living units. There are some differences depending on where you are at and how old they are, but they all basically have to meet certain requirements on square footage, electrical sockets, bed size and number. It also varies slightly due to custody level. Where a max custody general population cell my have barred doors controlled by the guards, a medium unit GP cell will usually be set up in a pod type unit where the inmates have their own key to their doors, however, the guards will control the doors to a pod of 8 or so rooms with 2 inmates living in each.

The food is almost identical for both lockdown and population inmates with a very few exceptions. For instance years ago meals would consist of real meats, like pork chops. Pork chops were banned from the lockdown unit because the bones were so hard that they made excellet knives. In fact, I had an inmate that stabbed another with one several years ago and even though the victim blocked the blow it went all the way through his hand. The guy pulled it out of his hand and used it on the guy that attacked him. Also, certain cuts of chicken were not allowed because their hollow bones made perfect first use handcuff keys. Another example of different food is for disciplinary reasons. Since it was pretty much my invention I dont know how widely it is used, however, if an imate threw any liquid or food or damaged a serving tray (made shanks out of them) then they recieved "Food Loaf" for three consecutive meals. This consisted of everything in the meal including the drink, mixed all together in a blender and cooked in a loaf pan. It doesnt sound like a big deal, but imagine what liver, salad, coffee and buttersotch pudding looks like. Except for examples such as that though it is the same food.

Lockdown units on US soil vary somewhat depending on what state or if they are federal. Inmates will fight tooth and nail to be sent to the federal units in most cases. They all must meet the minimum standards, but seldom do you ever see the states provide air conditioning as the fed does. That is a really big deal to them.

With the same mindset that says "We're feeding them so we never torture them at all, not any place in history no sirree."

No one ever said that. The post is about the quality of the food they receive vs the quality of the food in schools.

why is no one outraged that guantanamo detainees are receiving more nutritious, balanced, and possibly tastier options than children in our schools' free lunch programs?Kids get free lunch?
*Pulls out cane and sits in rocking chair... porch with swing bench materializes*
[Wheezing voice] why when I was going to school, I had to pay for my lunch... $.25 we had to fork over... granted the meals were fine (no complaints) you young'uns get free meals and complain? why I oughtta... *cough**cough**cough*[/Wheezing voice]

No one ever said that. The post is about the quality of the food they receive vs the quality of the food in schools.

The original post is a Straw Man designed to try and convince people that "Since Guantanamo inmates get fed better food than children in school, there is no prisoner abuse happening there."

:rolleyes:

Liverbreath']The food is almost identical for both lockdown and population inmates with a very few exceptions. For instance years ago meals would consist of real meats, like pork chops. Pork chops were banned from the lockdown unit because the bones were so hard that they made excellet knives. tes provide air conditioning as the fed does.

Are you talking about Gitmo or some other prison?

Be careful what you ask for. Remember the troops in the field are eating MRE's. :DWhich is Damn better than K-Rations... imho.

*Chuckle* I remember hearing a story where the German POW's of WW2 protested that under the Geneva Convention, they were suppose to eat the same types of food that the Allied Soldiers were eating...

When they saw that they were, they knew they would loose the war.

Which is Damn better than K-Rations... imho.

*Chuckle* I remember hearing a story where the German POW's of WW2 protested that under the Geneva Convention, they were suppose to eat the same types of food that the Allied Soldiers were eating...

When they saw that they were, they knew they would loose the war.

I had some K rations and they were pretty good. Never had the MREs althought I've heard they are decent.

So we'll just forget about the torture then?

What torture? You need to go find out what torture is befoe you buy into such garbage. You are being played like a fiddle if you buy into it. Yes, they do make them uncomfortable when they are first interrogated and humiliation is also a tatic that is used to get someone to talk. They cause no permanent physical harm and quite frankly the U.S. does the same things to their own troops in trainning simply to make them harder Sleep deprivation is a way of life for a US soldier. To this day I still sleep no more than 4 hours at a time. What politicians and leftists supporting the terrorists call torture is just plain silly, except the politicians should be arrested for it for aiding the enemy.
I only wish they would have tortured me with half naked ladies, we could have been more prepared when soviet spys used to tempt us with it in Germany.

The gitmo prisoners are the best treated war prisoners I have ever heard of. Even in WWII the US didnt treat the war prisoners as well. For that matter not even the interned Japanese Americans on the west coast. I live 5 miles from a former Japanese internment camp. They have a memorial there that explains what happened. Not to good if you ask me. They even had to grow most of there food. So I call on all people that think Gitmo is a terrible place. Wake up and shut up. These people are the worst of the worst in most cases.

I heard the prisoners eat freeze dried packaged powders and nothing else

Not true. Those are way too expensive.

Liverbreath. Thanks for answering my question in post #42. Just one more question, were you refering to Gitmo or some other prison?

I had some K rations and they were pretty good. Never had the MREs althought I've heard they are decent.Every now and then, our group eats MRE's. One of our members gets a box of surpluss. the Pork tends to be on the dry side, but other than that, it's great stuff.

And I had K-rations... (shudder)

Providing school lunch programs for millions of children using the same ingredients or preparation would dramatically alter the limited sources (i.e. fish) so that prices would be inflated and stocks depleted.

Processed wheat, processed sugar, processed corn, processed dairy and processed meats. Poor choices, bad health, good economics.

A couple thousand detainees can be afforded the good stuff, the whole foods.

A couple thousand detainees can be afforded the good stuff, the whole foods.

Try between 500 and 600.

Which is Damn better than K-Rations... imho.

*Chuckle* I remember hearing a story where the German POW's of WW2 protested that under the Geneva Convention, they were suppose to eat the same types of food that the Allied Soldiers were eating...

When they saw that they were, they knew they would loose the war.

hahaha The US has had some major lemons when it comes to their field rations. I got in on the last batches of C-rats and the first MRE's. I really missed the John Wayne bars in the C-rats and the Chicken and Hamloaf in the MRE literally burnt your tounge because of the preservative in it, but all in all I think it will still beat the future when your entire meal will come in a pill and you carry them along with water purification tablets.

The gitmo prisoners are the best treated war prisoners I have ever heard of.

*snips*

Wake up and shut up. These people are the worst of the worst in most cases.

Then by all means prove, in "most cases", that these individuals are, as you blithely maintain, the "worst of the worst". In a court of Law. An open court of Law. With independent reporters and journalists allowed in and everything.

Otherwise, follow your own advice. Get out of bed, and stifle your urge to blather by shoving a cup of coffee under your nose.

How can an organization that has never been to Gitmo, and admited it on television, give a report on what is going on there? The report can not be factual, it is only speculation. :headbang:

So there's no abuse in NK 'cos they can't get in there either...

Liverbreath. Thanks for answering my question in post #42. Just one more question, were you refering to Gitmo or some other prison?

Well actually both at different times. Believe it or not, they all have the very same legal standards set forth by the ACA (American Correctional Association)
Their standards are the minimum requirements for incarcerated humans anywhere whether it be Military/ Federal, or State. These regs are sealed in stone and the bare minimums. They are so closely related you will often find all three in the same towns and sharing resources.
Prisons no matter where you go are not unique institutions, they come from a set of blueprints off a shelf. They are designs for federal institutions and state institutions base usually on the region of the country you are in.

At least they don't have to worry about heart attacks or their food crawling away. Lol.

At least they don't have to worry about heart attacks or their food crawling away. Lol.

Heart attacks are another thing. If they are allowed to get a small amount of money sent to them every week or month, they most likely get canteen privliges. Like a small prison store that allows them to buy snacks, candy, toiletry items, stationary, and other creature comforts. You don't hear much about it because the public would have a fit, but everyplace has them at some level. Even at Gitmo different inmates have different incentive levels which grant greater privledges according to several criteria most importantly behavior.

Liverbreath']hahaha The US has had some major lemons when it comes to their field rations. I got in on the last batches of C-rats and the first MRE's. I really missed the John Wayne bars in the C-rats and the Chicken and Hamloaf in the MRE literally burnt your tounge because of the preservative in it, but all in all I think it will still beat the future when your entire meal will come in a pill and you carry them along with water purification tablets.really... the ones now I consider bland... infact my dislike for Tobasco sause dimminished after eating a couple of MRE's.

My friends used to tell me stories of using the oil from the C-Rat tuna as fuel for their fires. :D

So there's no abuse in NK 'cos they can't get in there either...

No I did not say that. What I said is they claim abuse yet they have admitted they have never been there. The varacity of their report is suspect.

Liverbreath']Well actually both at different times.

What threw me was your reference to pork chops. I doubt they serve that to the prisoners in Gitmo.

So the conditions in Girmo are no worse than any prison in the US? Maybe even better?

No I did not say that. What I said is they claim abuse yet they have admitted they have never been there. The varacity of their report is suspect.

My point exactly...

really... the ones now I consider bland... infact my dislike for Tobasco sause dimminished after eating a couple of MRE's.

My friends used to tell me stories of using the oil from the C-Rat tuna as fuel for their fires. :D

haha! I know where the tobascco sauce came from. We used to dump an ammo pouch to hold a bottle per squad just so you could cover the tasted of the ham and chicken loaf and the dehydrated pork pattie. When I got out there was a questionaire that was being sent out division wide with a line at the end for comments. It was passed down from higher to be sure and tell them add tobascco sauce on that line when finished! The first batches of the MRE's really needed improvement but the smoked ham and Franks were pretty good. Problem was you had to be fast or plan ahead to get them.
The C-rats IMHO were the best of the lot, but they sure were not very practial for carrying along with a full combat load if you were airborne. Especially nice when we could just call for re-supply and have a case thrown at us from a blackhawk passing by so the trade off was worth it in the long run.

The original post is a Straw Man designed to try and convince people that "Since Guantanamo inmates get fed better food than children in school, there is no prisoner abuse happening there."

:rolleyes:
if i am the straw man, you are the red herring.

please don't make assumptions about what i believe is happening in guantanamo, in terms of abuse. this thread is truly intended to be focused on nutritional needs of underprivileged kids, which unfortunately has been hijacked to become a debate on the situation in guantanamo itself.

cannot prisoners be abused physically and treated well dietarily, whereas schoolchildren be abused dietarily and treated well physically? why are you attacking my premise? i doubt you have read through earlier portions of this thread, including this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9095550&postcount=13).

try to focus on the food please. there is another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=426821) for debates regarding abuse.

What threw me was your reference to pork chops. I doubt they serve that to the prisoners in Gitmo.

So the conditions in Girmo are no worse than any prison in the US? Maybe even better?

By far better. They have no slam doors (solid outer door) and I have never seen an institution with that much light. Those guys are under a microscope. No where else would allow them property that could not be searched at any time. What is really the saddest part about it is their claim that there Koran cannot be disrespected. These guys could care less. When smoking was allowed in every place except lockdown they used to use the pages for cigarette papers when they managed to get some tobacco smuggled in.

Naw, no place serves real meat anymore. Most prisons that have cattle operations learned they can make much more money off raising cattle strictly for breeding stock, rather than butchering it themselves. Like I said earlier, if it isn't chicken, turkey, or ground chopped pressed and pattied fish they don't get it. Speaking of food one of the funniest I have seen is places that serve Quiche! They really thought they were living high on the hog then. What they didn't realize was it was cheaper than hell. An egg with a dash of sugar sprinkled on it and instant gormet meal!

My point exactly...

There is a difference between a prison on a portion of a small island that has controlled entry and a rather large country that can be watched by satellite, has workers who go to Japan, etc., etc. Alleged abuse in NK can be corroborated. Alleged abuse in Gitmo cannot.

I think regular prison conditions are better then Guantanamo's any day of the week.

Spend a month in solitary at Folsom, then ask that one again! ;)

Spend a month in solitary at Folsom, then ask that one again! ;)

k, I'll get back to you.

Seriously, obviously I dont know what solitary in Folsom is like but if its just a stark cell, no contact with anyone and enough food to subsist, it still sounds better than guantanamo.

k, I'll get back to you.

Seriously, obviously I dont know what solitary in Folsom is like but if its just a stark cell, no contact with anyone and enough food to subsist, it still sounds better than guantanamo.


No light, no blanket, no pillow, a pot to piss in, no visitors, two meals a day (low quality slop), no washing or dental hygene. I spent 65 days in the hole there in 1975. As a result, I acquired arthritis in my knees. When they let me out of the hole, they hosed me down (with a firehose) and beat up again. Then put back into the gp as I had learned my lesson (don't punch guards). I'd prefer to be tortured in Gitmo, thanks!

Liverbreath']haha! I know where the tobascco sauce came from. We used to dump an ammo pouch to hold a bottle per squad just so you could cover the tasted of the ham and chicken loaf and the dehydrated pork pattie. When I got out there was a questionaire that was being sent out division wide with a line at the end for comments. It was passed down from higher to be sure and tell them add tobascco sauce on that line when finished! The first batches of the MRE's really needed improvement but the smoked ham and Franks were pretty good. Problem was you had to be fast or plan ahead to get them.
The C-rats IMHO were the best of the lot, but they sure were not very practial for carrying along with a full combat load if you were airborne. Especially nice when we could just call for re-supply and have a case thrown at us from a blackhawk passing by so the trade off was worth it in the long run.LOL :D

got a picture of soldiers in tough combat... one of them pulls out the bottle of tobascco sause and tosses it to the Germans (WW2) thinking it was a Gernade. There is a pause and an empty bottle soars back with a note in broken english
"Send more please!"

if i am the straw man, you are the red herring.

please don't make assumptions about what i believe is happening in guantanamo, in terms of abuse. this thread is truly intended to be focused on nutritional needs of underprivileged kids, which unfortunately has been hijacked to become a debate on the situation in guantanamo itself.

cannot prisoners be abused physically and treated well dietarily, whereas schoolchildren be abused dietarily and treated well physically? why are you attacking my premise? i doubt you have read through earlier portions of this thread, including this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9095550&postcount=13).

try to focus on the food please. there is another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=426821) for debates regarding abuse.I thought that was the focus of this post... unfortunatly, people will force the issue to Gitmo and Abuse no matter what.

You could post a thread about the Gitmo Prisioners being moved to a Hyatt Regency Hotel and people will post "Sure, so that now exscuses the abuse" type threads. :rolleyes:

just a few comments, that will probably surely get flamed, first, regardless of the condtions or treatment there, even if they are being treated like kings, how would you like to be snatched up, thrown in a prison where you cant leave, and kept there for an indeterminant amount of time with no charges, no lawyers, nothing, they just throw you in and tell you to shut up huh????? I havnt heard ANYONE say anything about THAT!! And if its so damn great there, why are they being kept in CUBA outside of the reach of us law? I mean come on are you all so naive? Obviously its so they can do whatever the HELL they want to them and no one can do a DAMN thing about it, and you people better wake the hell up because they have already built similar places to the ones in WWII that the japs were in to throw your sorry asses into without charges, stop being sheep and wake up, before you wake up in a little cage just big enough to lay down in with light blasting on you like the pictures from cuba, oh amnesty international couldnt get in so how can they know anything? Are you kidding me? There is something called sources, and what you should be really asking is why the hell havnt they been allowed in? Do you think they havnt tried? Do you think the govt doesnt want them to see the great meals their serving? Geez sometimes I think people can't possibly be so stupid, and then they go and prove me wrong, that idiot that got up on tv from the govt and showed that plate of food was total crap, do you really think that is what they eat, what a joke, and as for the descriptions of their menues, I have heard similar descriptions of school food, just because it sounds good and fancy doesnt mean it doesnt taste like shit, wake up, and lose the damn muslim racism, there are canadians and many other nationalities of people and religeons being held there, if you think for 2 seconds this BS war on terror is keeping you safe you better grow up and wake up, if the damn terrorists were so dangerous why didnt a war on terror start a long time ago, you think terrorists didnt exist a long time ago? the whole terrorist term is in the eye of the beholder, the british that left englend and started the us govt were also considered terrorists, you wanna support the troops? start asking questions and demanding some godamn answers from your govt, before you dont have the ability to anymore.

just a few comments, that will probably surely get flamed, first, regardless of the condtions or treatment there, even if they are being treated like kings, how would you like to be snatched up, thrown in a prison where you cant leave, and kept there for an indeterminant amount of time with no charges, no lawyers, nothing, they just throw you in and tell you to shut up huh????? I havnt heard ANYONE say anything about THAT!! And if its so damn great there, why are they being kept in CUBA outside of the reach of us law? I mean come on are you all so naive? Obviously its so they can do whatever the HELL they want to them and no one can do a DAMN thing about it, and you people better wake the hell up because they have already built similar places to the ones in WWII that the japs were in to throw your sorry asses into without charges, stop being sheep and wake up, before you wake up in a little cage just big enough to lay down in with light blasting on you like the pictures from cuba, oh amnesty international couldnt get in so how can they know anything? Are you kidding me? There is something called sources, and what you should be really asking is why the hell havnt they been allowed in? Do you think they havnt tried? Do you think the govt doesnt want them to see the great meals their serving? Geez sometimes I think people can't possibly be so stupid, and then they go and prove me wrong, that idiot that got up on tv from the govt and showed that plate of food was total crap, do you really think that is what they eat, what a joke, and as for the descriptions of their menues, I have heard similar descriptions of school food, just because it sounds good and fancy doesnt mean it doesnt taste like shit, wake up, and lose the damn muslim racism, there are canadians and many other nationalities of people and religeons being held there, if you think for 2 seconds this BS war on terror is keeping you safe you better grow up and wake up, if the damn terrorists were so dangerous why didnt a war on terror start a long time ago, you think terrorists didnt exist a long time ago? the whole terrorist term is in the eye of the beholder, the british that left englend and started the us govt were also considered terrorists, you wanna support the troops? start asking questions and demanding some godamn answers from your govt, before you dont have the ability to anymore.

Chill, little buddy. This is about food for pete's sake.

BTW if they weren't in Cuba, would you rather have them in a facility in your neighborhoood?

just a few comments, that will probably surely get flamed, first, regardless of the condtions or treatment there, even if they are being treated like kings, how would you like to be snatched up, thrown in a prison where you cant leave, and kept there for an indeterminant amount of time with no charges, no lawyers, nothing, they just throw you in and tell you to shut up huh????? I havnt heard ANYONE say anything about THAT!! And if its so damn great there, why are they being kept in CUBA outside of the reach of us law? I mean come on are you all so naive? Obviously its so they can do whatever the HELL they want to them and no one can do a DAMN thing about it, and you people better wake the hell up because they have already built similar places to the ones in WWII that the japs were in to throw your sorry asses into without charges, stop being sheep and wake up, before you wake up in a little cage just big enough to lay down in with light blasting on you like the pictures from cuba, oh amnesty international couldnt get in so how can they know anything? Are you kidding me? There is something called sources, and what you should be really asking is why the hell havnt they been allowed in? Do you think they havnt tried? Do you think the govt doesnt want them to see the great meals their serving? Geez sometimes I think people can't possibly be so stupid, and then they go and prove me wrong, that idiot that got up on tv from the govt and showed that plate of food was total crap, do you really think that is what they eat, what a joke, and as for the descriptions of their menues, I have heard similar descriptions of school food, just because it sounds good and fancy doesnt mean it doesnt taste like shit, wake up, and lose the damn muslim racism, there are canadians and many other nationalities of people and religeons being held there, if you think for 2 seconds this BS war on terror is keeping you safe you better grow up and wake up, if the damn terrorists were so dangerous why didnt a war on terror start a long time ago, you think terrorists didnt exist a long time ago? the whole terrorist term is in the eye of the beholder, the british that left englend and started the us govt were also considered terrorists, you wanna support the troops? start asking questions and demanding some godamn answers from your govt, before you dont have the ability to anymore.Funny you should mention the Japanese Interment camps that were around during WWII.

What did the American-Japanese do to regain the trust of the US? They joined and fought for the country that imprisioned them. They went through HELL and alot died to show that they are Americans First and Japanese Second. Now the 442 is known in history because they fought for the country that adopted them and gave them a chance for a better life.

Here and now, what does the Muslim community do... complain, leave the country, turn on their fellow Americans, show solidarity for the Terrorist, join the terrorists and kill Americans. When "Insurgents" use Mosques as sheilds to shoot at Coilition forces, where is the outcry at such use of Holy Sites? when Terrorist blow up schools to get one American soldier... where is the outcry from the Islamic community (especially the US Muslims.) when Torture sites where the "Freedom fighters" killed innocents, where is the outcry?

and you wonder why people are being locked up for a long time? I say, if you are loyal to America then Prove It. The Terrorists are making Muslims and the Islamic Religion look bad, Correct it. don't just sit back and cast blame or accusations. stand up and show where your heart really lies.

Sorry for Hijacking the Thread.

EDIT: and Kohana... sorry if you found my reply offensive, It really wasn't my goal to offend anyone.

so what IS this fabulous 7 course menu they serve at gitmo? one of you guys must know since you have railed agaisnt it.
must be nothing short of red lobster if you listened to the defenders

Chill, little buddy. This is about food for pete's sake.

BTW if they weren't in Cuba, would you rather have them in a facility in your neighborhoood?


Sure why not, their inside a prison arent they, not anymore of a risk than any other prison in your community, maybe americans would get more ticked off that these people are being treated like trash with no rights human or otherwise, and people would be asking why people "disappear" to gitmo, and maybe they wouldnt be able to get away with so much crap if it was close by.

Sure why not, their inside a prison arent they, not anymore of a risk than any other prison in your community, maybe americans would get more ticked off that these people are being treated like trash with no rights human or otherwise, and people would be asking why people "disappear" to gitmo, and maybe they wouldnt be able to get away with so much crap if it was close by.I think the topic of the thread is the Food not the abuse (allegded or not) at Gitmo. if you want to talk about the conditions as well as what the US can or cannot get away with, try another thread.

No light, no blanket, no pillow, a pot to piss in, no visitors, two meals a day (low quality slop), no washing or dental hygene. I spent 65 days in the hole there in 1975. As a result, I acquired arthritis in my knees. When they let me out of the hole, they hosed me down (with a firehose) and beat up again. Then put back into the gp as I had learned my lesson (don't punch guards). I'd prefer to be tortured in Gitmo, thanks!

Well the testimony from the human rights lawyers that have been allowed to go there is that they meet prisoners who are handcuffed naked on the floors of rooms that are refrigerated to the point that they're shaking with the cold.

Funny how people on the right hear this and respond "they're gettin' air condishnen' on a tropical island. I wish I could be tortured like that."

Just because one dumbass (I was inclined to say smart ass, but a smart ass usually points out other people's stupidity in an irreverant way, not indulge in their own) congressman reads a menu everyone thinks that this somehow proves that they're getting treated well. And that "courtesy of the American tax payer" line was just idiotic. As though we're all supposed to respond "I can't believe we're feed'n these people. Starve 'em, they blew up 'dem bildin's."

Free school lunches? That sounds like...communism! Just like the evil pinko concept of a " free public health system"...

[/sarcasm]

Well the testimony from the human rights lawyers that have been allowed to go there is that they meet prisoners who are handcuffed naked on the floors of rooms that are refrigerated to the point that they're shaking with the cold.

Funny how people on the right hear this and respond "they're gettin' air condishnen' on a tropical island. I wish I could be tortured like that."

Just because one dumbass (I was inclined to say smart ass, but a smart ass usually points out other people's stupidity in an irreverant way, not indulge in their own) congressman reads a menu everyone thinks that this somehow proves that they're getting treated well. And that "courtesy of the American tax payer" line was just idiotic. As though we're all supposed to respond "I can't believe we're feed'n these people. Starve 'em, they blew up 'dem bildin's."

Actually, you are probably right. In hindsight, they should have invoked the Geneva Convention in the beginning and killed every single one of them right on the spot. Of course no telling how many thousands of innocent lives were spared from information obtained, but hey, that is war after all.

I'm not gonna lie, I've lived in middle class neighborhoods all over america but never any poor ones. However I've live in about 12 states for long enough to try the school food there and i always found it too be pretty good. The whole "mystery meat monday" thing just doesnt happen. and we get served things with fancy names such as "chicken cordon bleu" but it really is just chicken with cheese. Pretty much anythingh you could think of making has a fancy'ish sounding name somewhere out there so don't look too far into it.

Liverbreath']Actually, you are probably right. In hindsight, they should have invoked the Geneva Convention in the beginning and killed every single one of them right on the spot. Of course no telling how many thousands of innocent lives were spared from information obtained, but hey, that is war after all.

It may be war, but they're not soldiers. They're enemy combatants (very cute euphemisms), and so the Geneva Conventions, with all the various attendant protections, don't apply. I submit that in the context of Iraq, the term 'war' also be considered a cute euphemism - a euphemism for 'the illegal invasion, occupation, and the commandeering of natural resources of a sovereign nation', though admittedly it's nowhere near as cute and soundbyte-ish as 'enemy combatants'.

And of course there's no telling how many "thousands of innocent lives were spared from information obtained", just as there's no way of telling how many thousands of innocent lives were disrupted - and worse - by the act of attempting to obtain hypothetical or non-existant information.

With no transparency, there's no damn way to tell a goddamn thing. Let's get McCarthyite about this for a moment (and this ought to appeal to some of you absolutists out there):

If the Bush Administration, the Pentagon, the U.S. Army and the CIA have done nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear from transparency. If they disallow transparency, there's clearly something, or possibly any number of things that they wish to hide.

Why does your government and the bodies who serve it wish to keep the truth from the American people and the world? What are they hiding? When will the world be allowed to know truth, and not a lot of self-serving lies, dismissals and cover-ups?

ok like Dobbs said, noone can prove anything here because none of us have been there and the claims of people who have appear dubious at best, so unless someone can come up with something substansial i reccomend we stop all the mud slinging and maybe discuss food problems in the US school systems like this thread was originally intended.

The Menu at Gitmo, as stated in the US COngress, to the best of my recollection is Rice Pilaf, Oven roasted Fried Chicken, and I think baby peas, no chocolate cake or anything of the sort. Interestingly, several reporters were given an opportunity to taste food from Gitmo, and how many of them accepted???? NOT ONE.

The Menu at Gitmo, as stated in the US COngress, to the best of my recollection is Rice Pilaf, Oven roasted Fried Chicken, and I think baby peas, no chocolate cake or anything of the sort. Interestingly, several reporters were given an opportunity to taste food from Gitmo, and how many of them accepted???? NOT ONE.WHAT! NO CHOCOLATE CAKE!! now that is inhumane torture. almost like giving them chocolate chip Cookies but no Milk.

how can we be so cruel! ;)

I'm not gonna lie, I've lived in middle class neighborhoods all over america but never any poor ones. However I've live in about 12 states for long enough to try the school food there and i always found it too be pretty good. The whole "mystery meat monday" thing just doesnt happen. and we get served things with fancy names such as "chicken cordon bleu" but it really is just chicken with cheese. Pretty much anythingh you could think of making has a fancy'ish sounding name somewhere out there so don't look too far into it.
ive lived in middle class and poor towns and the school lunch is fine. not a great balance or fancy food but stuff kids like to eat. its not slop. kids wont eat slop.