NationStates Jolt Archive

No jokes aside, or silly little quotes, I am serious... As a fan of American Politics as a whole (the whole sphere of politics is pretty interesting) I with no doubt in my mind can say George Bush is a much better speaker and public figure now than when he was elected the first time. Rather you agree with his politics or not you have to give him credit there... I by no means was a fan of Clinton, but I thought he may have been one of the top 2-3 public speaking presidents, and displayed presidential qualities when speaking in public of any presidents I have seen in the U.S. I would like to hear your opinion on how Bush is progressing as a public speaker and statehead, political views aside....

definitely worth a bump

No jokes aside, or silly little quotes, I am serious... As a fan of American Politics as a whole (the whole sphere of politics is pretty interesting) I with no doubt in my mind can say George Bush is a much better speaker and public figure now than when he was elected the first time. Rather you agree with his politics or not you have to give him credit there... I by no means was a fan of Clinton, but I thought he may have been one of the top 2-3 public speaking presidents, and displayed presidential qualities when speaking in public of any presidents I have seen in the U.S. I would like to hear your opinion on how Bush is progressing as a public speaker and statehead, political views aside....
People have consistently underestimated GWB. As with most shallow thinking, many have looked only at surface appearances and failed to understand that intelliegence does not equate to facile public speaking.

People have consistently underestimated GWB. As with most shallow thinking, many have looked only at surface appearances and failed to understand that intelliegence does not equate to facile public speaking.

I always assumed he's an idiot because he got all Cs through university (especially given the colleges he went to are plagued with grade inflation) and ran every buisness he was involved with into the ground. So if he has no real skills, no real proficiency is public speaking, sucked in college, sucked in the military, why wouldn't I think he's an idiot? That being said, the rest of his administration is very clever, so I don't think it matters that the presidents basically tarded.

People have consistently underestimated GWB.
"They misunderestinamted me"
-GWB

"They misunderestinamted me"
-GWB


source???

I think the original author makes a valid point, Bush has come a long way, and I don't question his intelligence at all. He has made some fine decisions since taking the office.

bump

He has made some fine decisions since taking the office.

By whose standards?

"They misunderestinamted me"
-GWB

You know, I'd have thought making fun of speech impediments went out of vogue after the 9th grade or so...

bumpity bump

You know, I'd have thought making fun of speech impediments went out of vogue after the 9th grade or so...

That's true. However, making fun of morons is en vogue.

:D

Like his views or not (I wont say) I give him credit on his public speaking, for example: The last election, you could see him with more movement, more professional yet relaxed maneurisms, and he looked as if he were actually alive. Much more so than his competitor...

Like his views or not (I wont say) I give him credit on his public speaking, for example: The last election, you could see him with more movement, more professional yet relaxed maneurisms, and he looked as if he were actually alive. Much more so than his competitor...

John Kerry: "Mhuuuuuuurhmmmm... Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuooooooooooaaah..."

That's Zombie for you uneducated types :p.

I wish there were more beautiful, eloquent speeches like Reagan used to give, but I am afraid you are not going to see that from Bush Sr, Clinton, nor Bush Jr. You just can't keep up with the gipper...

I would like to hear from someone that hates Bush as a president, but sees that he is becoming a much better speaker and statesman in the public eye..

bumper

You know, I'd have thought making fun of speech impediments went out of vogue after the 9th grade or so...

It's not an impediment. W just is not a good public speaker. As was said before, Clinton is an excellent public speaker, on the other hand.

It's not an impediment. W just is not a good public speaker. As was said before, Clinton is an excellent public speaker, on the other hand.


This doesn't address the question at all... The question was whether Bush is becoming a stronger speaker or not.... Everyone knows Clinton was an exceptional speaker... even his toughest critic...

Of course he's gotten better. Karl Rove noticed people were starting to see his thousands of verbal blunders and laugh, so he decided to give Bush a few grammar and public speaking lessons, but that doesn't mean he's stopped using his favorite made-up word, "suiciders" or telling us he's "catapult[ing] the propaganda."

point taken.... You would think the RNC would put maximum effort not only into making him a better speaker, but to ensure the next successor is a great speaker.

People have consistently underestimated GWB. As with most shallow thinking, many have looked only at surface appearances and failed to understand that intelliegence does not equate to facile public speaking.

"They misunderestimated me." -- GWB Nov. 6, 2000

that was already misquoted previously......

By whose standards?
Jalal Talabani's, perhaps?

bumpleberry goodness..

That's true. However, making fun of morons is en vogue.

:D
[ Makes fun of Potaria ] :D

This doesn't address the question at all... The question was whether Bush is becoming a stronger speaker or not.... Everyone knows Clinton was an exceptional speaker... even his toughest critic...
Clinton's public speaking skills, or lack thereof, weren't at all apparent to me. Then again, very few of those who speak publicly impress me.

For those interested, see if you can't find some of Bush's speeches from his earlier days, when he was running for Governor (is it governor? sorry, I'm not American) of Texas. He was truly a fine speaker then, he sounded educated, refined, and like he knew what the hell he was talking about. I've been looking for the old links, but somehow can't seem to find them. :confused:
Anyhow, I'm not sure what the hell happened to GWBJ's public speaking abilities since then....

As for whether he is stupid or smart, well, lets see. I wouldn't call him a blithering idiot, as alot of people seem all too ready to do. You don't become President of the USA without some level of intelligence and charisma, no matter who your daddy is. I would however have to say that he is, in my opinion, the least compotent national leader in the western world I've ever seen. That is not to say that he is incompetent, simply that he is much less compotent than his contemporaries.

A friend and I were discussing this when we watched the last State of the Union address on tv (and we remarked on it again at the Inauguration). In both our opinions, he seems to be much more at ease when speaking in front of a crowd, or making a formal address, than he was in 2000.

You can probably chalk it up to experience, plus maybe some tweaking by his speechwriters.

A friend and I were discussing this when we watched the last State of the Union address on tv (and we remarked on it again at the Inauguration). In both our opinions, he seems to be much more at ease when speaking in front of a crowd, or making a formal address, than he was in 2000.

You can probably chalk it up to experience, plus maybe some tweaking by his speechwriters.


I fully agree. In the first election, he was noticiably reading from a teleprompter, and/or looking from one camera directly to the next, to the next. He now seems more confident, more at ease with the position, and seems to have some sense of the importance in his spoken word.

His vocabulary has seemed to improve as well. During the election debates I amused myself by counting all the words he used that were more than 8 letters. There were a lot more than in the SOU address prior. I also didn't catch a single made up word, which had crept into his speaches from before.
Whether he's intelligent, I believe his actual decision and thought processing ability rivals that of anything Reagon or Clinton had. Everybody blasts him for this Iraqi war, but hey Clinton screwed up Somalia and Reagon blundered Iran, so Bush is just keeping the norm.
Not trying to hijack the thread by using Iraq, but it's a good comparison to all three presidents.

(sorry for the spelling, I'm working on it)

I think that makes sense, he also has a great cabinet with him, so I would say this president + cabinet are a very strong team, albeit secretive. I also respect the fact that he is fluent in spanish, rather than just spitting out a couple words in spanish like Kerry did in the last election.

For those interested, see if you can't find some of Bush's speeches from his earlier days, when he was running for Governor (is it governor? sorry, I'm not American) of Texas. He was truly a fine speaker then, he sounded educated, refined, and like he knew what the hell he was talking about. I've been looking for the old links, but somehow can't seem to find them. :confused:
Anyhow, I'm not sure what the hell happened to GWBJ's public speaking abilities since then....

As for whether he is stupid or smart, well, lets see. I wouldn't call him a blithering idiot, as alot of people seem all too ready to do. You don't become President of the USA without some level of intelligence and charisma, no matter who your daddy is. I would however have to say that he is, in my opinion, the least compotent national leader in the western world I've ever seen. That is not to say that he is incompetent, simply that he is much less compotent than his contemporaries.
you have seen videos of bush's campaign speeches when he ran for governor of texas??

gubernatiorial speeches are of public record, I am sure he was an excellant speaker at that time, and a well respected governor.

This doesn't address the question at all... The question was whether Bush is becoming a stronger speaker or not.... Everyone knows Clinton was an exceptional speaker... even his toughest critic...

Well, I haven't listened to him speak much. But, yes, he's a bit better. Practice makes perfect! :)

gubernatiorial speeches are of public record, I am sure he was an excellant speaker at that time, and a well respected governor.
speeches are seldom written by the person who gives them and are irrelevant to the quality of the speaker.

I think the previous point was that audio tapes and video tapes of speeches are a public record, so there is no doubt that you can get a copy somewhere..

I think that makes sense, he also has a great cabinet with him, so I would say this president + cabinet are a very strong team, albeit secretive. I also respect the fact that he is fluent in spanish, rather than just spitting out a couple words in spanish like Kerry did in the last election.
No, I'm sorry but he is not fluent in spanish. He thinks he is, but he's not.
"This is a -- we've got some mighty challenges -- to make sure the country is more prosperous and more hopeful, and the world more peaceful. But sin duda, we're gonna achieve what we need to achieve, porque este país es gra -- es, es, es, es un gran país, with great values and great hope and great strength."
That is not fluent spanish in the broadest sense.

"You know, this nation is blessed by the talents and the hard work of Hispanic Americans, and we're really blessed by the values of familia y fe that strengthen our nation on a daily basis."

"Thank you all very much. Siéntese, Embajador. Thank you for coming. Bienvenidos. Mi casa es su casa."

He's still "spitting out a couple words in spanish like Kerry did in the last election."

here's your chance to do the bump....

I could always be wrong, but I thought I read that both Jeb and G.W. were both fluent in spanish..... maybe not.

That's true. However, making fun of morons is en vogue.

:D

Hey, I'm all for that. Just make fun of his policies, agendas, ideals... he gives you enough ammunition in those areas, you know. ;)

(I'm very much against making fun of people for any deformitites, abberations, etc. I don't see any difference between making fun of the way Bush talks and (say) someone with Down Syndrome. Either way, it's just not right.)

I could always be wrong, but I thought I read that both Jeb and G.W. were both fluent in spanish..... maybe not.
Jeb might, but judging by my above post, GW certainly is not.

I think the previous point was that audio tapes and video tapes of speeches are a public record, so there is no doubt that you can get a copy somewhere..
oh im sorry i misunderstood.

i would still like to know if sith saw some. i cant imagine that he was a better speaker running for governor than he was as president of the US. do people get worse at public speaking?

"Como es Juan?"

"...uhh....... Spaghetti...." :fluffle:

It's not an impediment. W just is not a good public speaker. As was said before, Clinton is an excellent public speaker, on the other hand.

Sure, Clinton was a good speaker, no question there.

As for W:
George HW Bush ('41) was Dyslexic. Their son (Neil), is also Dyslexic. Given that W speaks in a similar manner as his father, I'd be surprised if he wasn't as well. And he most certainly has a speech impediment: I could tell even in his old Air Force Reserve commerical that when he spoke he was forcing the words out.

"They misunderestimated me." -- GWB Nov. 6, 2000
Beat you to it

Beat you to it
yeah, I guess I should've read the entire thread before posting!

Sure, Clinton was a good speaker, no question there.

As for W:
George HW Bush ('41) was Dyslexic. Their son (Neil), is also Dyslexic. Given that W speaks in a similar manner as his father, I'd be surprised if he wasn't as well. And he most certainly has a speech impediment: I could tell even in his old Air Force Reserve commerical that when he spoke he was forcing the words out.

We are the Dyslexics of Borg. Futility is resistant. Your ass will be laminated.

I hate Bush. It's bad enough being ruled by a fundamentalist, but he could at least have been a bit smarter.

I disagree with many of Bush's policies, but have to give him credit for putting together a highly skilled and conherent cabinet. His answers to questions (more an indication of ability than is speech reading) are improving. So yes, in answer to the OP, he is getting better.

someone with Down Syndrome.
*juvenile response on my part*
Don't you mean, Downing Street Memo Syndrome?

I know, i know ... off to my corner.

Kudos to W’s speech writers and speech coaches. They make him sound almost normal now. I haven’t heard about any strategery or stumbling, rambling sayings that go no where. Those people deserve a medal.

I don't think its so much that Bush is good public speaker, but he projects the image of being a good public speaker, a looks fuzzy-wuzzy adorable while doing it.

Interesting sidenote, he has the lowest IQ of any president, only 93 or 94 I think, while oddly, Bill Clinton has a towering 182.

you have seen videos of bush's campaign speeches when he ran for governor of texas??
Here (http://www.archive.org/details/BrainTenYrs) Plays a direct side by side comparison of his speeches from 10 years ago to now.

I don't think its so much that Bush is good public speaker, but he projects the image of being a good public speaker, a looks fuzzy-wuzzy adorable while doing it.

Interesting sidenote, he has the lowest IQ of any president, only 93 or 94 I think, while oddly, Bill Clinton has a towering 182.

Way to bring up an urban legend. Now you look mongoloid. Don't you?

Here (http://www.archive.org/details/BrainTenYrs) Plays a direct side by side comparison of his speeches from 10 years ago to now.
i hope you didnt spend a long time looking for that. 4.7 megs would take me an hour or so to download.

what did you think of it?

source???
Why do people repeatedly demand sources (which often end up being questionable)? Trust me, that's a real quote.

He has gotten a little better. He's still bad, but he's not so bad it's funny anymore.

i hope you didnt spend a long time looking for that. 4.7 megs would take me an hour or so to download.

what did you think of it?
I do media design, so archive.org is bookmarked. That is a top download so it's on the first page for the election. So, no-I knew where it was and it took me a few seconds. You've already seen an assement of it, the first poster was refering to that film. Anything more understanding of it will have to come from you watching it yourself.

Speaking as a Canadian who is not to thrilled with how GWB and Repubs have conducted themselves, I do have to admit that GWBs public speaking has gotten *much* better over the years. Hardly surprising, as he's had a lot of practice.

Someone mentioned Reagan's wonderful oratory powers. There is a reason for that: Reagan was an actor and knew how best to impart his words, to convince others of his sincerity about what he said. He had screen presence/charisma aplenty. I doubt he wrote all his speeches himself. At the very least he had an army of researchers and writers to help make his speeches as good as possible. His power came from the ability to make every single word sound like his very own.

As far as GWB, he may well have a seriuos case of stage fright. (Sir Laurence Olivier himself had terrible stage fright). Quite enough to give someone an awkward or wooden demeanour while speaking before an enormous audeince. What ever the cause of his public speaking quirks, he's managed to overcome a good deal of them and make his speeches sound like his own words. He may have just had awful speechwriters before. You have to write a speech for a person in a manner and inflection the speaker himself uses, or it can end up sounding very stiff and wooden indeed.

In anycase, I think his improvement all comes from real world practice and becoming more comfortable giving his speeches. As Govenor of Texas, his audience was one State. When he ran for President, his audience became fifty States. When he won won the Presidency, his audience increased yet again, this time to almost the entire world. Thats a huge leap from an audience of one State. He's just finally gotten used to it.

I think that bush gets nervous in front of crowds and all. When he is only in front of a few people he talks a whole lot better. Being a musician I know what its like being in front of crowds, its not easy. That being said anything you practice you will get better at, even public speaking. I'm not a fan per say of the administration, like all leaders bush has done some good things, and hes done some dumb things too. Clinton was a good speaker and he was very funny. Bush's wife can speak good in public, so can the vice president. Who in my opion is very intelligent. I'm sure bush is smarter than hes made out to be. I not smart at all though lol.