NationStates Jolt Archive

1) It's only torture if the prisoner bleeds and dies.

2) France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys. It was in fact the Tooth Fairy who helped America out during the Revolutionary War.

3) Saddam Hussein was a valuable ally when he was nerve gassing Iranians and Kurds, but soon as he invades Kuwait he's suddenly the bloodiest and most despicable dictator since Hitler and Stalin.

4) When Bill Clinton nitpicked the definition of a "Sexual Relation" it was a total outrage, but when the Bush Administration nitpicks the definitions of "Torture," "War on Terror" and "Enemy Combatant" it's perfectly acceptable.

5) When Dan Rather didn't bother checking the facts on the National Guard papers he deserved to get his ass fired, but when George Tenet didn't bother checking the facts on Iraq's WMDs he deserved to be awarded the Medal of Freedom.

6) Anyone who's gullible enough to be duped by "faulty intelligence" without peer pressure deserves to continue running a country because "he's a Good Christian Man."

7) Iraq supported Al Qaeda, yet we can overlook Saudi Arabia's repressive regime and terrorist support network because they give us oil.

8) Every Muslim on American soil, man woman or child are all card carrying members of Al Qaeda.

9) Muslim charities need to be on a government watchlist whether or not they're proven to send money to terrorists, but we can let PETA slide even though they speak up for and give money to ALF and ELF eco-terrorists.

10) We need to protect the unborn until they're born, at which point they're on their own or we send them to Iraq.

11) Cuba is a dirty Communist Nation that deserves to be embargoed into oblivion, but China and Russia are our valuable trading partners.

Feel free to add more.

12) "But they started it..." is a valid, reasonable excuse to do anything. (Barlibgil)

12b) The US lost two wars against Canada. (Sarkasis)

13) The Kennedys' dynatic ambition is a Populistic nightmare, but the Bush family is modest and God-fearing. (Quiltlifter)

14) Every political topic should be broached with a lengthy discusion of how bad Clinton, Carter, and LBJ were, but to talk about what Bush has done up until now is "living in the past, we should look to the future." (Domici)

pretty funny

12) That the "But they started it..." is valid, reasonable, excuse to do anything.

but pointless.

These things are posted periodically, they only lead to people rehashing the same old arguments and yelling the same things back and forth.

*snip*
This is going in my bookmarks. It's priceless!

12) That the "But they started it..." is valid, reasonable, excuse to do anything.
Apparently so...the other threads are chock full of them, and no one seems to want to get past it...

hehehehe


*waits for the "American Democrats Believe That: " rebuttal*

hehehehe


*waits for the "American Democrats Believe That: " rebuttal*
It'll be just as funny.

hehehehe


*waits for the "American Democrats Believe That: " rebuttal*


That wouldnt be allowed?

Thats when the shrieking will start. And I'll wager that thread will be locked before this one is.

12) The US lost two wars against Canada.

man, i am so sick of everyone grouping large amounts of people together with sweeping generalizations, and then assuming that they all of the same beliefs.
oh wait. this was a joke. i guess i'll just have to develope a sense of humor, then.

Hooray hooray for inflamatory generilizations!
Hey, I know, lets make a 'Jews beleive that:" topic. That would be funny!

12) The US lost two wars against Canada.


When did we fight "Canada"?

man, i am so sick of everyone grouping large amounts of people together with sweeping generalizations, and then assuming that they all of the same beliefs.
oh wait. this was a joke. i guess i'll just have to develope a sense of humor, then.

Family Guy plagiariser!

*points finger*

Hey everybody, look! This guy's a PHONY! A big, fat, PHONY!!

I'm by no means a fan of the US republican movement, but threads like this are trouble. Somebody somewhere is going to take offence to the mass generalisations.

When did we fight "Canada"?
You didn't.

Trust me. I'm Canadian. :D

Family Guy plagiariser!

*points finger*

Hey everybody, look! This guy's a PHONY! A big, fat, PHONY!!
Maybe he's the real deal.
*shrugs* This is nationstates after all, and I'm pretty sure I saw Desmond Tutu getting forumbanned the other day :shiftyeyes:

I'm by no means a fan of the US republican movement, but threads like this are trouble. Somebody somewhere is going to take offence to the mass generalisations.
Perhaps...but some valid points have been brought up, that I hope someone will be willing to deal with. Such as the concept of 'our torture' being okay, but 'their torture' is not...the support of Saddam then, but not now...the whole Cuba versus China thing...all HUGE topics, really. It's presented in a silly, overgeneralising way, but I too see and question these contradictions. I think most of us realise not ALL republicans or *insert name of group* actually believe these things...but for those who do...how do you resolve these contradictions?

That wouldnt be allowed?

Thats when the shrieking will start. And I'll wager that thread will be locked before this one is.


Sure it would be allowe. I'll laugh at both of them.


The shreiking already seems to have started it seems. And I'll take that wager. The beer you are going to owe me is going to taste divine! :p

13) The Kennedys' dynastic ambition is a populistic nightmare, but the Bush family is modest and God-fearing.

When did we fight "Canada"?

Well, there was the Revolutionary War invasion, as well as one during the War of 1812.

Well, there was the Revolutionary War invasion, as well as one during the War of 1812.
Do those count as wars?

1) It's only torture if the prisoner bleeds and dies.
Hey, now, we believe it's only torture when the person being tortured doesn't deserve it. :D

2) France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys. It was in fact the Tooth Fairy who helped America out during the Revolutionary War.
No, France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys because they are dirty socialists who don't seem to understand that they'd be speaking German today if it weren't for the United States. We thank France for its training assistance in the Revolutionary War, but the days in which Frenchies had brains and balls died with Napoleon.

3) Saddam Hussein was a valuable ally when he was nerve gassing Iranians and Kurds, but soon as he invades Kuwait he's suddenly the bloodiest and most despicable dictator since Hitler and Stalin.
Really, we believe this? Interesting... and here I thought he was a scumsucker the whole time.

4) When Bill Clinton nitpicked the definition of a "Sexual Relation" it was a total outrage, but when the Bush Administration nitpicks the definitions of "Torture," "War on Terror" and "Enemy Combatant" it's perfectly acceptable.
Bah, we hate Bill Clinton for many other reasons. Check the "Worst Presidents" thread.

5) When Dan Rather didn't bother checking the facts on the National Guard papers he deserved to get his ass fired, but when George Tenet didn't bother checking the facts on Iraq's WMDs he deserved to be awarded the Medal of Freedom.
Those situations weren't different at all... :rolleyes:

6) Anyone who's gullible enough to be duped by "faulty intelligence" without peer pressure deserves to continue running a country because "he's a Good Christian Man."
I'm an agnostic, I hate Bush's religious agenda.

7) Iraq supported Al Qaeda, yet we can overlook Saudi Arabia's repressive regime and terrorist support network because they give us oil.
Saudi Arabia needs its ass kicked, too.

8) Every Muslim on American soil, man woman or child are all card carrying members of Al Qaeda.
Al Qaeda hands out membership cards?

9) Muslim charities need to be on a government watchlist whether or not they're proven to send money to terrorists, but we can let PETA slide even though they speak up for and give money to ALF and ELF eco-terrorists.
I fucking loathe PETA. My mother, on the other hand, doesn't mind them so much, and she's a yellow-dog democrat born and raised.

10) We need to protect the unborn until they're born, at which point they're on their own or we send them to Iraq.
Not all members of the GOP are entirely against abortion. I support it up until the baby is alive according to biological definition - in the third trimester.

11) Cuba is a dirty Communist Nation that deserves to be embargoed into oblivion, but China and Russia are our valuable trading partners.

China and Russia didn't try to position themselves to nuke us during the Cold War.

1) It's only torture if the prisoner bleeds and dies.

2) France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys. It was in fact the Tooth Fairy who helped America out during the Revolutionary War.

3) Saddam Hussein was a valuable ally when he was nerve gassing Iranians and Kurds, but soon as he invades Kuwait he's suddenly the bloodiest and most despicable dictator since Hitler and Stalin.

4) When Bill Clinton nitpicked the definition of a "Sexual Relation" it was a total outrage, but when the Bush Administration nitpicks the definitions of "Torture," "War on Terror" and "Enemy Combatant" it's perfectly acceptable.

5) When Dan Rather didn't bother checking the facts on the National Guard papers he deserved to get his ass fired, but when George Tenet didn't bother checking the facts on Iraq's WMDs he deserved to be awarded the Medal of Freedom.

6) Anyone who's gullible enough to be duped by "faulty intelligence" without peer pressure deserves to continue running a country because "he's a Good Christian Man."

7) Iraq supported Al Qaeda, yet we can overlook Saudi Arabia's repressive regime and terrorist support network because they give us oil.

8) Every Muslim on American soil, man woman or child are all card carrying members of Al Qaeda.

9) Muslim charities need to be on a government watchlist whether or not they're proven to send money to terrorists, but we can let PETA slide even though they speak up for and give money to ALF and ELF eco-terrorists.

10) We need to protect the unborn until they're born, at which point they're on their own or we send them to Iraq.

11) Cuba is a dirty Communist Nation that deserves to be embargoed into oblivion, but China and Russia are our valuable trading partners.

Feel free to add more.

--Republicans must be told that it is impossible to jump the gap between Hillbilly armsdealer/worldterrorist and being a decent person.
-Must be said that a penis in the ear is not helpfull in conversations.
-Must be said that it is hypocryt to attack sexual different people while raping the cattle at home.

You might be a Democrat if...

...you believe that the Constitution is a "living document", but an unborn baby is not a "living being".

http://www.dasmusik.net/forums/images/smilies/evil.gif

http://www.dasmusik.net/forums/images/smilies/evil.gif

Hey, look! It's Jaws, from those James Bond movies!

Hey, look! It's Jaws, from those James Bond movies!
LMAO! Maybe I should edit him and give him those badass metal braces. :D

LMAO! Maybe I should edit him and give him those badass metal braces. :D

Do it. Now.

No, France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys because they are dirty socialists who don't seem to understand that they'd be speaking German today if it weren't for the United States. We thank France for its training assistance in the Revolutionary War, but the days in which Frenchies had brains and balls died with Napoleon.
Are you serious? I might direct you to my thread: "France fought valiantly in WW2" - http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=426386

As for generalisations: Yes they are, but seriously, do you not think that the majority of people who identify as US Republicans would agree to the majority of the points mentioned (if they were written a little differently)?

Are you serious? I might direct you to my thread: "France fought valiantly in WW2" - http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=426386
Yes, I am serious, and I've seen your thread, it says absolutely nothing for France's military ability except that they are not only pushovers, but strategical idiots to boot.

As for generalisations: Yes they are, but seriously, do you not think that the majority of people who identify as US Republicans would agree to the majority of the points mentioned (if they were written a little differently)?

Actually, no. I know many Republicans, and only the right wing biblethumper nut jobs would support more than half of the claims made by this poster.

1. No, France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys because they are dirty socialists who don't seem to understand that they'd be speaking German today if it weren't for the United States. We thank France for its training assistance in the Revolutionary War, but the days in which Frenchies had brains and balls died with Napoleon.
2. China and Russia didn't try to position themselves to nuke us during the Cold War.
1. Well In that case, I can't help you other than to say: The French would be speaking Russian right now if it wasn't for the US, rather than German. And even in that case, as far as during the war was concerned, I'm not sure there were any plans to make all French speak German.
I do suggest though that you read up on WW1. That was after Napoleon, and the French certainly showed more balls than the US. And that coming from a German. I respect the French as former enemies. I respect the Russians as former enemies.
As far as I am concerned, the Americans were best at hiding behind a lot of planes.

2. Are you sure about that? Somehow I think the Russians very much did have an interest in positioning themselves to nuke you. And that is ignoring the fact that there were US missiles all over Europe, which was somehow acceptable.

1. Well In that case, I can't help you other than to say: The French would be speaking Russian right now if it wasn't for the US, rather than German. And even in that case, as far as during the war was concerned, I'm not sure there were any plans to make all French speak German.
No... because Germany would have taken Russia down if not for the United States.
I do suggest though that you read up on WW1. That was after Napoleon, and the French certainly showed more balls than the US. And that coming from a German. I respect the French as former enemies. I respect the Russians as former enemies.
Ummm, I'm going to assume that was sarcasm, or a bad joke.
As far as I am concerned, the Americans were best at hiding behind a lot of planes.
Superior technology is a part of superior military.

2. Are you sure about that? Somehow I think the Russians very much did have an interest in positioning themselves to nuke you. And that is ignoring the fact that there were US missiles all over Europe, which was somehow acceptable.
Ummm, yeah I'm pretty sure. The Russians really didn't have a big part in it. Russia was just a major part of the USSR. The USSR positioned itself to nuke us. Nice try. And US missiles were hardly all over Europe, they were only in a few countries, and the US was allowed because they hadn't adopted the aggressive, expansionist military policy that the USSR had adopted.

Do it. Now.
http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/jaws.gif

Did Russia make East Germany speak Russian? I'm pretty sure they continued to speak German.

A lot of people seem to characterize the second World War as a struggle to determine language. Weird.

No... because Germany would have taken Russia down if not for the United States.
Sure...you saved the world from evil! You alone!


Ummm, I'm going to assume that was sarcasm, or a bad joke.
I'm serious in what I say. It was French soldiers who killed my great grand uncle, and I respect them for standing up to a military machine like ours for such a long time.
Sure, much credit also to the British, but the Americans came in when things were over, refused to support operations initially bcause they were scared for their men.


Superior technology is a part of superior military.
And yet I don't respect people claiming heroism for building more planes. Which has of course nothing to do with technology.


Ummm, yeah I'm pretty sure. The Russians really didn't have a big part in it. Russia was just a major part of the USSR. The USSR positioned itself to nuke us. Nice try. And US missiles were hardly all over Europe, they were only in a few countries, and the US was allowed because they hadn't adopted the aggressive, expansionist military policy that the USSR had adopted.
Do you know how you sound right now? I am aware that the USSR was made of more than just the Russians, but going along with US terminology of the time, I used the term interchangably.
And the Cubans allowed the Russians/USSR-ians to station nukes on their territory. Maybe against the will of their people, but show me the European nation that asked its' population about whether to allow US nukes in.

Did Russia make East Germany speak Russian? I'm pretty sure they continued to speak German.

A lot of people seem to characterize the second World War as a struggle to determine language. Weird.

Ummm, were the Russians Nazis? Think. The Frenchies would have been speaking German.

(Republicans believe that...)

That every political topic should be broached with a lengthy discusion of how bad Clinton, Carter, and LBJ were, but to talk about what Bush has done up until now is "living in the past, we should look to the future."

http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/jaws.gif

That's the stuff.

Superior technology is a part of superior military.

Every time I watch one of those "Wings" documentaries on Discovery or History or whatever it always seems to follow the same pattern-the Germans develop an advance in engineering and flight that revolutionized the airplane and is something we use today, and the US responds by putting a bigger engine in thier planes. The Germans come up with another advance, we put a bigger gun.

I don't know if that counts as superior technology, just bigger shit.

Not another one of these "Here's what my political opponents think" posts...


9) Muslim charities need to be on a government watchlist whether or not they're proven to send money to terrorists, but we can let PETA slide even though they speak up for and give money to ALF and ELF eco-terrorists.

If you think that Republicans generally like or support PETA, ALF and ELF, you've got to hook me up with whatever it is you're smoking.

Did Russia make East Germany speak Russian? I'm pretty sure they continued to speak German.

A lot of people seem to characterize the second World War as a struggle to determine language. Weird.

That's because being made to abandon intellectual freedom, freedom of conscience, and the right of self determination may all be nice things to have, but they're ultimatly just complicated abstract concepts to an American nationalist. Having to learn another language however, now that's a scary thought. Much more suitable to their propaganda purposes.

Ummm, were the Russians Nazis? Think. The Frenchies would have been speaking German.
RIF
The French would be speaking Russian right now if it wasn't for the US

and to continue my half-assed hi-jack because I think these "We saved your ass" rebuttles to everything make us look goddamned stupid and it embaraces me...

Did they make the Polish stop speaking Polish? They had France for a while, did they start making people speak German while they where there? (not rhetorical, actual question)

And yet I don't respect people claiming heroism for building more planes. Which has of course nothing to do with technology.

Industrial technology still counts.

Sure...you saved the world from evil! You alone!

It's not my intention to start an argument about this, just put forth some food for thought. Consider it an historical "What if?"

It's possible that the US won WWII almost single-handedly. The USSR made the biggest military contribution to defeating Germany, but whose resources kept them going?

The Red Army crossed Eastern Europe and entered Berlin on GMC trucks. A ton of their fighter planes in the early days were US-manufactured. We were sending them stuff through Persia, Arkhangelsk, and even from Alaska over Siberia.

If "the sinews of war are infinite money," then it was the USA which provided that money (and more concrete help besides) for the USSR to forge into victory on the Eastern Front.

Did they make the Polish stop speaking Polish? They had France for a while, did they start making people speak German while they where there? (not rhetorical, actual question)

And even in that case, as far as during the war was concerned, I'm not sure there were any plans to make all French speak German.

I wasn't exactly serious, it was merely a hint at the fact that Russia defeated Germany, and the Americans more or less picked up the pieces.

Industrial technology still counts.
It does, but the fact that the USA could build so many planes (and other stuff) was more due to the fact that they had a greater population and that the war didn't ever actually bother their industry because of geography.

It's not my intention to start an argument about this, just put forth some food for thought. Consider it an historical "What if?"
Fair enough, it is fairly impossible to know. Fact is though that the Soviets were able to move most of their industry beyond the Ural, and that most of their war materials were still produced by themselves.
True, the trucks were American, and so may have been many planes, but the tanks that Brits and Americans gave them were quickly discarded, and the T-34 was an all-Russian made and designed weapon which was probably a very integral part of the Soviet victory.

Sure...you saved the world from evil! You alone!
I never said that. The U.S. may very well not been able to do it on its own, but Europe sure as hell couldn't have done it without the U.S.

I'm serious in what I say. It was French soldiers who killed my great grand uncle, and I respect them for standing up to a military machine like ours for such a long time.
Sure, much credit also to the British, but the Americans came in when things were over, refused to support operations initially bcause they were scared for their men.
2-3 years before the end of the war was when "things were over?" Interesting opinion.

Do you know how you sound right now?
You're right, what kind of a moron uses the right terms instead of loose backwoods and uneducated terms?
I am aware that the USSR was made of more than just the Russians, but going along with US terminology of the time, I used the term interchangably.
You'd be better off with "commies." The entirety of the USSR was communist, whereas only Russia was Russian.
And the Cubans allowed the Russians/USSR-ians to station nukes on their territory. Maybe against the will of their people, but show me the European nation that asked its' population about whether to allow US nukes in.
Did I say something contrary to that?

It's not my intention to start an argument about this, just put forth some food for thought. Consider it an historical "What if?"

It's possible that the US won WWII almost single-handedly. The USSR made the biggest military contribution to defeating Germany, but whose resources kept them going?

The Red Army crossed Eastern Europe and entered Berlin on GMC trucks. A ton of their fighter planes in the early days were US-manufactured. We were sending them stuff through Persia, Arkhangelsk, and even from Alaska over Siberia.

If "the sinews of war are infinite money," then it was the USA which provided that money (and more concrete help besides) for the USSR to forge into victory on the Eastern Front.
Someone had to fill those trucks and fight for thier homeland 'to the last man.' Look, it's stupid to discount America's contribution to WWII, but it's equally, if not more, stupid to discount the contribution of those who where fighting for thier homes. It was a struggle, one that took countries coming together. Quibbling about who carried what weight demeans everyone.

It does, but the fact that the USA could build so many planes (and other stuff) was more due to the fact that they had a greater population and that the war didn't ever actually bother their industry because of geography.

I don't know how much greater the US's population was compared to the UK's or Germany's but they produced much, much more (2-5 times as much) in almost every category of war materiel.

It's true that they didn't suffer bombing raids, but even the large Allied heavy bombers have been shown to have been quite ineffective in crimping industrial production. German war production reached its peak in 1944, which was also the peak year for Allied bombing. The much smaller and lighter German bomber fleet would of course have achieved proportionately less.

I wasn't exactly serious, it was merely a hint at the fact that Russia defeated Germany, and the Americans more or less picked up the pieces.

I know you wheren't. I wasn't even really adressing you, it just occoured to me I saw someone say that right before I saw the response. Mostly it's just that I am so frustrated by this argument (especially when it's being made by people whose parents wheren't even born yet-what the fuck are you taking credit for??? fuck...) and I was (am) throwing a minor tantrum.

2-3 years before the end of the war was when "things were over?" Interesting opinion.
In WWI, it was more or less one year, and much less time actually spent on the ground.
WWII is different, but I wasn't referring to that.


You'd be better off with "commies." The entirety of the USSR was communist, whereas only Russia was Russian.
I'll stay away from that one this time, other than to refer you to Wikipedia. Look up the definition of "Communism" there and tell me whether the USSR fits that model.
Alternatively, read Marx.


Did I say something contrary to that?
Probably not, but I object to the idea that
a) it was Cuba who threatened you, when it was in fact the USSR.
b) it is okay for US medium range missiles to be stationed around the USSR, but it is wrong for the USSR to station such missiles in Cuba.

1) It's only torture if the prisoner bleeds and dies.

2) France is a nation of pushover cowardly Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys. It was in fact the Tooth Fairy who helped America out during the Revolutionary War.

3) Saddam Hussein was a valuable ally when he was nerve gassing Iranians and Kurds, but soon as he invades Kuwait he's suddenly the bloodiest and most despicable dictator since Hitler and Stalin.

4) When Bill Clinton nitpicked the definition of a "Sexual Relation" it was a total outrage, but when the Bush Administration nitpicks the definitions of "Torture," "War on Terror" and "Enemy Combatant" it's perfectly acceptable.

5) When Dan Rather didn't bother checking the facts on the National Guard papers he deserved to get his ass fired, but when George Tenet didn't bother checking the facts on Iraq's WMDs he deserved to be awarded the Medal of Freedom.

6) Anyone who's gullible enough to be duped by "faulty intelligence" without peer pressure deserves to continue running a country because "he's a Good Christian Man."

7) Iraq supported Al Qaeda, yet we can overlook Saudi Arabia's repressive regime and terrorist support network because they give us oil.

8) Every Muslim on American soil, man woman or child are all card carrying members of Al Qaeda.

9) Muslim charities need to be on a government watchlist whether or not they're proven to send money to terrorists, but we can let PETA slide even though they speak up for and give money to ALF and ELF eco-terrorists.

10) We need to protect the unborn until they're born, at which point they're on their own or we send them to Iraq.

11) Cuba is a dirty Communist Nation that deserves to be embargoed into oblivion, but China and Russia are our valuable trading partners.

Feel free to add more.
Do you have a link for the ELF and PETA? I would like to know more.

Fair enough, it is fairly impossible to know. Fact is though that the Soviets were able to move most of their industry beyond the Ural, and that most of their war materials were still produced by themselves.
True, the trucks were American, and so may have been many planes, but the tanks that Brits and Americans gave them were quickly discarded, and the T-34 was an all-Russian made and designed weapon which was probably a very integral part of the Soviet victory.

One thing I meant to put in that original post was how Lend-Lease freed up Soviet war production to pick just a few things and mass-produce the hell out of them. T-34s are the perfect example.

-snip-
I don't know why exactly the US was able to produce so much if not for those reasons.
If you can provide me with a few examples of how US industrial technology was superior to German industrial technology, I will concede that I was wrong.

In WWI, it was more or less one year, and much less time actually spent on the ground.
WWII is different, but I wasn't referring to that.

Well now, you can't criticize the US for not getting into WWI sooner. That was not their fight and they had no real reason for intervention until the Germans handed them one on a silver platter.

I don't feel like reading the whole thread, so someone fill me in: who has the biggest dick tonight? Americans or Europeans?

Well now, you can't criticize the US for not getting into WWI sooner. That was not their fight and they had no real reason for intervention until the Germans handed them one on a silver platter.
True.
Nonetheless, a reason to say that France (and Britain) coped well without American help, and that therefore France's "balls" were not lost with Napoleon.

I don't feel like reading the whole thread, so someone fill me in: who has the biggest dick tonight? Americans or Europeans?
Why me of course!
But which Europeans do you mean? French or Brits or Germans? Or Russians maybe?
:p

Do you have a link for the ELF and PETA? I would like to know more.
See, that one is not well concieved, or worded wrong, or something.

"Just like al Qaeda or any other terrorist movement, ELF and ALF cannot accomplish their goals without money, membership and the media," the Republican senator from Oklahoma said.

Inhofe said there was "a growing network of support for extremists like ELF and ALF," and he singled out People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals for giving money to members of both groups.
Source (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/)

Maybe I'm missing something.

Why me of course!
But which Europeans do you mean? French or Brits or Germans? Or Russians maybe?
:p

These arguments about WWII always turn into big dick contests between Americans and Europeans. Just want to know who's bigger tonight.

True.
Nonetheless, a reason to say that France (and Britain) coped well without American help, and that therefore France's "balls" were not lost with Napoleon.

Ah, I see.

Well, they did ok for themselves. Still, compare 1809, when the French conquered half of Europe, to 1919, when they had just managed to hold on by their fingernails and were utterly exhausted by their effort.

WWI knocked France completely out of the ranks of the Great Powers. I don't know if I'd use as derogatory a term as "balls," but they definitely slid after the Little Corsican was exiled.

In WWI, it was more or less one year, and much less time actually spent on the ground.
WWII is different, but I wasn't referring to that.
June 26, 1917: First US troops arrive in France, 1st Division
May 7 - June 28, 1919: Treaty of Versailles drafted and signed

Looks like about 2 years to me.

I'll stay away from that one this time, other than to refer you to Wikipedia. Look up the definition of "Communism" there and tell me whether the USSR fits that model.
Alternatively, read Marx.
There are many accepted definitions of Communism that vary greatly from Marxism or traditional Communism, most of which the USSR fits. In contrast, there aren't any definitions of Russian that include all member nations of the USSR.


Probably not, but I object to the idea that
a) it was Cuba who threatened you, when it was in fact the USSR.
b) it is okay for US medium range missiles to be stationed around the USSR, but it is wrong for the USSR to station such missiles in Cuba.

a) Cuba did threaten us, they adopted Communism and set up nukes. The USSR was just supplying them. Stop saying "in fact" when what you say is not actually fact.
b) I covered that, it helps to read before you respond. America hadn't adopted an aggressive, expansionist military policy.

June 26, 1917: First US troops arrive in France, 1st Division
May 7 - June 28, 1919: Treaty of Versailles drafted and signed

Looks like about 2 years to me.

The Armistice was signed Nov 11, 1918. That'd be about a year and a half of war.

WWI knocked France completely out of the ranks of the Great Powers. I don't know if I'd use as derogatory a term as "balls," but they definitely slid after the Little Corsican was exiled.
After Napoleon was defeated, France did have a hard time for a while. Louis Napoleon managed to get the country back on its' feet and it became a respectable superpower again.
In 1870/71 it was mainly due to the Germans using railroads to mobilise quickly that they could defeat France. One unlucky battle and a captured Emperor didn't help either.
But they did come back yet again and certainly were a superpower in 1914. The reason they had it so tough was that they were facing a completely different enemy. There hadn't been such a unified and aggressive Germany before, the lack of which was the reason for Napoleon's success in my opinion.
After they did have some serious issues to work out, but at the time no one would've said France was no longer a superpower. Afterall, in 1939, theirs was probably the strongest army in Europe, if not the world.

The Armistice was signed Nov 11, 1918. That'd be about a year and a half of war.
Who gives a shit? The war wasn't over until spoils were designated, which was in 1919.

Who gives a shit? The war wasn't over until spoils were designated, which was in 1919.

If you weren't fighting, it doesn't count.

9) Muslim charities need to be on a government watchlist whether or not they're proven to send money to terrorists, but we can let PETA slide even though they speak up for and give money to ALF and ELF eco-terrorists.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a certain party shielding PETA because, oh, I don't know, they need the votes the eco-fringe brings?

Here's a nice, friendly, unbiased source explaining plainly why France sucks at life:

I-Hate-France.com (http://www.i-hate-france.com/militaryhistory.html)

Here's another one:

Albino Black Sheep (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html)

See, that one is not well concieved, or worded wrong, or something.


Source (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/)

Maybe I'm missing something.

Unlike Muslim charities that are even remotely suspected of funnelling money to terrorists, nothing has been done to PETA to date.

After Napoleon was defeated, France did have a hard time for a while. Louis Napoleon managed to get the country back on its' feet and it became a respectable superpower again.
In 1870/71 it was mainly due to the Germans using railroads to mobilise quickly that they could defeat France. One unlucky battle and a captured Emperor didn't help either.
But they did come back yet again and certainly were a superpower in 1914. The reason they had it so tough was that they were facing a completely different enemy. There hadn't been such a unified and aggressive Germany before, the lack of which was the reason for Napoleon's success in my opinion.
After they did have some serious issues to work out, but at the time no one would've said France was no longer a superpower. Afterall, in 1939, theirs was probably the strongest army in Europe, if not the world.

But compared to the real Nappy, the time of Napoleon III was just a shadow of glory. They won in the Crimea, though I must note that by the end of the war, the Brits were shouldering most of the load. They lost in Mexico, then again in 1870-71.

By 1939, they had the biggest army in Western Europe, but in the test of combat it proved that it was not the strongest.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a certain party shielding PETA because, oh, I don't know, they need the votes the eco-fringe brings?

I had no idea the US Green Party had so much power.


:D

WWI knocked France completely out of the ranks of the Great Powers. I don't know if I'd use as derogatory a term as "balls," but they definitely slid after the Little Corsican was exiled.
Considering they sacrificed their only other truly great military leader for political expediency is it really surprising?

June 26, 1917: First US troops arrive in France, 1st Division
May 7 - June 28, 1919: Treaty of Versailles drafted and signed

Looks like about 2 years to me.
The armistice was signed much earlier, and when first US troops landed in France, they were kept away from the fighting for some time because their training wasn't on par just yet.


There are many accepted definitions of Communism that vary greatly from Marxism or traditional Communism, most of which the USSR fits. In contrast, there aren't any definitions of Russian that include all member nations of the USSR.
I personally only adopt the definition by the one person who invented and coined the term.
I'm not gonna talk about that anymore though. I should have said "USSR", I didn't think you could get so excited about this.


a) Cuba did threaten us, they adopted Communism and set up nukes. The USSR was just supplying them. Stop saying "in fact" when what you say is not actually fact.
b) I covered that, it helps to read before you respond. America hadn't adopted an aggressive, expansionist military policy.
a) adopting a political and economic system in one's country is seldomly meant as a threat to others, but usually done for domestic reasons. If you can prove to me (with links) that Cuba asked for the nukes, set them up and had control over them to fire, I concede. Otherwise hold your breath.
b) The US was just as expansionist, and just as ready to use military force as the USSR. While the CCCP's (maybe that term is even more correct, hey?) army may have been bigger, as far as sending it to places to dominate goes, the US was right up there.

If you weren't fighting, it doesn't count.
"It doesn't count?!" *snorts Pepsi all over keyboard* Wow... just wow.

And also I have spent too much time with this today already.
I will be back tomorrow (possibly).

"It doesn't count?!" *snorts Pepsi all over keyboard* Wow... just wow.

Believe me, I had pretty much the same reaction to your post.

Unlike Muslim charities that are even remotely suspected of funnelling money to terrorists, nothing has been done to PETA to date.
But they seem to be asking for it-I just don't see this as a Republican stance. It in fact seems like they would want to treat them like the Muslim charities and are using rhetoric to get that.

I am not Repub or even sympathatic to them, but I universally dislike giving someone thier ideology like these lists. I understand that they are jokes, but when presented here it's like water on a grease fire and makes things frustrating.

a) adopting a political and economic system in one's country is seldomly meant as a threat to others, but usually done for domestic reasons. If you can prove to me (with links) that Cuba asked for the nukes, set them up and had control over them to fire, I concede. Otherwise hold your breath.
Control over firing the nukes was shared, so I can't prove to you that it was under Cuban control, because it wasn't completely. As for Cuba requesting assistance from the USSR and assisting in their placement, how's Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis) for you?

b) The US was just as expansionist, and just as ready to use military force as the USSR. While the CCCP's (maybe that term is even more correct, hey?) army may have been bigger, as far as sending it to places to dominate goes, the US was right up there.
The US was not very big at all on going around annexing smaller nations at the time compared to the USSR.

-snip-
Well, let's agree that both Cuba and the USSR were benefitting from the whole thing. Cuba got the extra protection of USSR-interests being based on its' soil, certainly defending them from more stuff alá Bay of Pigs.
The USSR (as Wikipedia said) reckoned any conflict with the US would be nuclear, and wanted more missiles in range of the US to fire back. Restoring the balance I would say.
I doubt however that if Fidel just woke up one day and said "I wanna nuke America!", that the Soviets actually would have done it.
Just like the US missiles stationed in Britain or Turkey.

As for your second point, we both know about the US Cold War (and before) record when it comes to respecting third parties' sovereignty, and using military interventions (as well as the CIA etc).
If you disagree, I will provide you with a list. As for Eastern Europe, those countries may have been bigger, but the US acted pretty much the same in Central and South America.