NationStates Jolt Archive

Why do Americans have such a distaste for France? Why do the French dislike America so much? Abviously, these questions mainly apply to conservative Americans and liberal French citizens, but this still does not make sense to me. Let me explain.
1. Conservative Americans pretend that anti-religious liberals have taken over the French government. There are, however, several American laws and policies that they would consider liberal and anti-religious. These laws include, legalized abortion and flag burning, Social Security in essentially the same form as that founded by FDR and other somewhat liberal economic policies, and the firearms restrictions of many states, as well several other examples.
2. Liberal French citizens claim that the American government is run by theocratic conservatives. Illegalized gay marriage, recreational drug laws, and a relatively uncentralized market structure, however, point out that many of France's laws and policies can be called conservative or theocratic.

My overall point is that France and the U.S. are so much more alike than they are different and that this animousity between them makes so little sense.

I'm American, and I like France (as well as the French)...

Why do Americans have such a distaste for France? Why do the French dislike America so much? Abviously, these questions mainly apply to conservative Americans and liberal French citizens, but this still does not make sense to me. Let me explain.
1. Conservative Americans pretend that anti-religious liberals have taken over the French government. There are, however, several American laws and policies that they would consider liberal and anti-religious. These laws include, legalized abortion and flag burning, Social Security in essentially the same form as that founded by FDR and other somewhat liberal economic policies, and the firearms restrictions of many states, as well several other examples.
2. Liberal French citizens claim that the American government is run by theocratic conservatives. Illegalized gay marriage, recreational drug laws, and a relatively uncentralized market structure, however, point out that many of France's laws and policies can be called conservative or theocratic.

My overall point is that France and the U.S. are so much more alike than they are different and that this animousity between them makes so little sense.

That's true. Chirac himself is a conservative.

My overall point is that France and the U.S. are so much more alike than they are different and that this animousity between them makes so little sense.
And hey...they both hate Muslims. W00T! :eek:

I'm American, and I like France (as well as the French)...

....

I'm American, and I like France (as well as the French)...
I did say that the question applies mainly to conservative Americans (although liberals in our country are guilty as well), but it is good to be reminded that there are others who do not buy into this senseless hate.

And hey...they both hate Muslims. W00T! :eek:
See! We can agree on some things!! :D

I did say that the question applies mainly to conservative Americans (although liberals in our country are guilty as well), but it is good to be reminded that there are others who do not buy into this senseless hate.

Yeah, it is good. However, I live in a shit town where nearly everyone hates France. Oh yeah, earlier this week, there was a huge Nazi rally just two blocks from my house. That might tell you something about this town.

Earlier this week, there was a huge Nazi rally just two blocks from my house.
Hooray for Texas!!!!! Everything in Texas is big. Especially the Nazi protests!!!!

My overall point is that France and the U.S. are so much more alike than they are different and that this animousity between them makes so little sense.
I said a long time ago that people hate to look into a mirror and see an unpleasant reality, revelations about oneself that are too painful to accept and too difficult to deny.

This is indeed the relationship between France and the US. It can be disturbing to see oneself from an external perspective.

Yeah, it is good. However, I live in a shit town where nearly everyone hates France. Oh yeah, earlier this week, there was a huge Nazi rally just two blocks from my house. That might tell you something about this town.



Nearly everyone hates France there? It must be a small town for you to have this knowledge. What-did they have a meeting about people's feelings toward France?

Its that bad?
Cant you move?

I vacationed in Paris in '01 and found the French people to be quite helpful and cordial (even the waiters).

There are plenty of jerks in every country.

And hey...they both hate Muslims. W00T! :eek:


I thought France hated the Jews? They hate Muslims now as well?

America hates Muslims now? Who said that?

I thought France hated the Jews? They hate Muslims now as well?

America hates Muslims now? Who said that?
Wasn't it President "I Hate Muslims" Bush and President "No, WE Hate Muslims" Chirac?

America hates Muslims now? Who said that?

the fact that they have attacked a couple muslim countrys in the past 4 years dosent look good :p

I thought France hated the Jews?
There's a lot of anti-France propaganda in the US media... and this sentence illustrates that propaganda works quite well.

There is a large jewish community in France and they live very well there. Ariel Sharon used an isolated anti-semitic incident in France, in 2003 to make a political statement (he invited french jews to move to Israel, but none of them moved). This story was used and reused by the american press.

What's funny is that a large proportion of French Jews are "non-sionists", that is, they don't necessarily have a positive opinion of the state of Israel. As a cultural group, they have other subtle characteristics, that are hard to understand from a distance of 6000 km.

There are probably more anti-semitic incidents (graffitis, cemetary desecrations mostly) in France and Germany than in the US. But these countries (especially France) are far from being "anti-jew" countries, as some american newspapers claim (sometimes hysterically). You can find kosher food and synagogues almost in every city in France, and Jews express their culture and their religion publicly.

France has larges groups of Jews (600 000 or 1% of the population) and Muslims (4-5 millions, or 8% of the population) on its territory, and they seem to live as good neighbours. Sometimes both communities join forces for France's two national sports: soccer, and national strikes. Now THAT is quite special.

I'm American, and I like France (as well as the French)...

Me too!

There is a large jewish community in France and they live very well there.

...

What's funny is that a large proportion of French Jews are "non-sionists",

Indeed, Paris has more Jews than any other city in Europe and has one of the ten highest Jewish populations in the world.

Interestingly, outside the US, most diaspora Jews are not Zionists.

the fact that they have attacked a couple muslim countrys in the past 4 years dosent look good :p


Your theory kinda breaks down in the Balkans.

Nearly everyone hates France there? It must be a small town for you to have this knowledge. What-did they have a meeting about people's feelings toward France?

Its that bad?
Cant you move?

I was speaking through hyperbole, but still, a good amount of people here hate the French for no reason whatsoever. Anti-French bumper stickers, anti-French talk on local radio stations, and even anti-French yard signs. They had a report about this on the local FOX News station about two years back (yes, FOX).

Oh yes, I'll be moving as soon as possible.

Wasn't it President "I Hate Muslims" Bush and President "No, WE Hate Muslims" Chirac?

On the contrary President Bush has, from the beginning, said that this war is not against Islam.

Current US-Franco relations actually stemed from the Great Wine Wars. Napa Valley was just starting to get noticed for it's amazing wines in 1987. The Bordeaux was not happy with the new compitition. Bordeaux spies sprayed large amounts of pesticides over many hectars of Napa Valley territory. Napa Valley was furious. They then loaded the pesticide laden wine onto planes and flew North through the Bering Straight across the North Pole then south through the North Sea and attacking the Bordeaux with tainted wine from the North-East; where they least expected it. They had corks lining the entire Western coast. The entire crop was ruined. Knowing if they scraped a whole year's worth of grapes they would also be ruined. They produced the tainted wine and shipped it out in 1988. The French people were furious with the tainted wine. This began a 8 year wine drought. The French were forced to buy German and Italian wine. In 1995 the French elected Chirac president in hopes that he would end the madness that was this war once and for all. In 1997, on the 10 year anniversary of the bombing of Bordeaux, Napa Valley, Bordeaux, and Bavaria (another major player) signed the Treaty of the Wines in Rome, Italy. So, as you see, the French are not cowards when it comes to wine wars.

I'm American, and I think there's nothing wrong with France. But I think a lot of people think they are bad for not supporting the Iraq war... except they're not the only country that didn't... so I don't know why people picked on them so much. Like Freedom Fries, what is that?!? I like French Fries, thankyouverymuch. I refuse to eat Freedom Fries. That is dumb. I'm glad that junk is over!

I'm French, and I don't hate the US, or Americans. I'm merely strongly critical of the present US government, and some sections of the population.

Wasn't it President "I Hate Muslims" Bush and President "No, WE Hate Muslims" Chirac?

Beg pardon? Chirac?? Anti-Muslim??? Chirac is, and always has been, a great friend of the Muslim world. Where did you get that nonsense? From hate-spouting propaganda regarding the law against any kind of religious signs in schools? You should know better than that, Sinuhue.

Yeah, it is good. However, I live in a shit town where nearly everyone hates France. Oh yeah, earlier this week, there was a huge Nazi rally just two blocks from my house. That might tell you something about this town.

Wow, where in Texas do you live? I live in Texas too, but the only person I hear Nazi from is a friend who is psychotically obsessed with WW2...

I do not hate the french nor do I dislike them. I am a man who still greatly respects the great American hero, Marquis de Lafayette, and as such I respect his people. I'm not sure I'd support a war to save France again (a hypothetical situation) because I REALLY don't want this nation involving itself in international problems.

I just HATE the french language. Its so damned hard to write it or read it because it is not phonetically sound for me to grasp.

I do not hate the french nor do I dislike them. I am a man who still greatly respects the great American hero, Marquis de Lafayette, and as such I respect his people. I'm not sure I'd support a war to save France again (a hypothetical situation) because I REALLY don't want this nation involving itself in international problems.

I just HATE the french language. Its so damned hard to write it or read it because it is not phonetically sound for me to grasp.
wasn't he a minor nobleman?

Beg pardon? Chirac?? Anti-Muslim??? Chirac is, and always has been, a great friend of the Muslim world. Where did you get that nonsense? From hate-spouting propaganda regarding the law against any kind of religious signs in schools? You should know better than that, Sinuhue.


Neither is Bush. Being anti-terrorist when the terrorists are Muslim does not make one anti-Muslim.

wasn't he a minor nobleman?

Marquis makes him a fairly important nobleman, only a Duc is higher without being a member of the royal family.

I just HATE the french language. Its so damned hard to write it or read it because it is not phonetically sound for me to grasp.

But French is phonetic. English is not.

...I'm not sure I'd support a war to save France again (a hypothetical situation) because I REALLY don't want this nation involving itself in international problems....
Gnnnnnn......!!!
:headbang:
I'm about ready to start a crusade against that kind of thing right now...

I absolutely love France and the French :D

French music is "le mellieur"

And I hate it how Americans hate French; in fact I wouldn't mind living in a town like Poitiers...

Oh, and I am politically "conservative"

You thinks that french music is the best ? You must be joking ... :)

"Tata yoyo,
qu'est ce qu'il y a sous ton grand chapeau"

That's just some kind of torture, non ?

I like French Fries, thankyouverymuch.

did you know they're actually from Belgium? ;)

You thinks that french music is the best ? You must be joking ... :)

"Tata yoyo,
qu'est ce qu'il y a sous ton grand chapeau"

That's just some kind of torture, non ?
I'm pretty sure there's also at least one American song that's a little... weird.

did you know they're actually from Belgium? ;)

D@mn straight!! French fries... that's like saying Brussels is the capital of Berlin xD

But I like both Americans and Frenchmen, that is to say, I don't think they're that different :p Both of them can be incredibly arrogant/chauvinistic sometimes... but apart from that, I have no problem with either. You're both our allies ;)

"Neither is Bush. Being anti-terrorist when the terrorists are Muslim does not make one anti-Muslim." -neo Rogolia-

You are 100% correct Neo... The American president has a duty to protect his people, as well as the interests of the American people. It so happens that multiple Muslim countries have taken it upon themselves to either house terrorists, fund terrorists (directly or indirectly) and have thus felt the wrath of the strong arm of the U.S. military. If those same countries were predominantly Hindu, Jewish, or Christian for that matter they still would be at fault, and both Clinton and Bush is justified in taking swift action against them.

What is interesting is that the U.S. is being questioned, rather than the "Peace-loving Muslim" nations that continue to harbor terrorists..

"Neither is Bush. Being anti-terrorist when the terrorists are Muslim does not make one anti-Muslim." -neo Rogolia-

You are 100% correct Neo... The American president has a duty to protect his people, as well as the interests of the American people. It so happens that multiple Muslim countries have taken it upon themselves to either house terrorists, fund terrorists (directly or indirectly) and have thus felt the wrath of the strong arm of the U.S. military. If those same countries were predominantly Hindu, Jewish, or Christian for that matter they still would be at fault, and both Clinton and Bush is justified in taking swift action against them.

What is interesting is that the U.S. is being questioned, rather than the "Peace-loving Muslim" nations that continue to harbor terrorists..
ooh... I ... don't want to start a fight or anything, because I realize it would be pointless. We have fundamentally different views. But I would like to state that 'terrorist' is not a scientific, clear-cut term. It denominates whatever 'enemies' someone has.
And if you say that the American president has a duty to protect the interests of his people, then that definitely does not give him the 'right' to invade muslim countries (if such a 'right' exists at all).

The french do not just dislike muslims, they are also against the born again christians, whom they view as a sect. most of the animosity for the French comes from the second world war where they earned the title of "Surrender Monkeys". Now, because they have messed up their reforendum on the European constitution, they are trying to cover their backs by pointing the finger at England and the £3billion we receive as an annual rebate. they obviously are ignoring that the EU pays out half it's money to finance the farmers, of which France gets £9billion a year and we get nothing!! no wonder people don't like them and it's not just America.

The french do not just dislike muslims, -snip-
The French do not dislike muslims.

And hey...they both hate Muslims. W00T! :eek:

Way to stereotype there, Sinuhue. :rolleyes:

I'm American, and I like France (as well as the French)...

Oui, vive la france!

I have nothing against France or French people.

Alinania, you are by no means starting a fight, I fully respect your views, even if they are different than my own. (By no means do i fully agree with the views of the current President nor the previous one on every topic) To say terrorists are anyone that opposes you is far too ambiguous, and yes, the President does have a right, a duty mind you, as defined in the U.S. Constitution. Whether they agree with his motives or wanted the U.S. to go to war or not, Americans as a whole (given there are always exceptions) respect the fact that our freedom and security came into question when the U.S. was attacked by terrorists, which happen to be funded by some Muslim countries. This changed everything, as foreign policy now has to be prioritized by what prevents further terrorist attacks from occuring. The French don't want to help the U.S., as they never do (remember the denial of french airspace to U.S. planes when Libyan terrorists killed Americans) and the French greatly financially from keeping the former Iraqi leader in power. How can one question the "right" of a world leader to keep his nation and his allies from being attacked by terrorists?

Alinania, you are by no means starting a fight, I fully respect your views, even if they are different than my own. (By no means do i fully agree with the views of the current President nor the previous one on every topic) To say terrorists are anyone that opposes you is far too ambiguous, and yes, the President does have a right, a duty mind you, as defined in the U.S. Constitution. Whether they agree with his motives or wanted the U.S. to go to war or not, Americans as a whole (given there are always exceptions) respect the fact that our freedom and security came into question when the U.S. was attacked by terrorists, which happen to be funded by some Muslim countries. This changed everything, as foreign policy now has to be prioritized by what prevents further terrorist attacks from occuring. The French don't want to help the U.S., as they never do (remember the denial of french airspace to U.S. planes when Libyan terrorists killed Americans) and the French greatly financially from keeping the former Iraqi leader in power. How can one question the "right" of a world leader to keep his nation and his allies from being attacked by terrorists?

Whether or not Saddam was a terrorist should first center on why the heck was he put there to begin with in a CIA coup?

The French do not dislike muslims.

Indeed, saying that a whole nation of people dislikes a whole religion with its followers, is unscientific at the least. It's highly unlikely you'll never find a Frenchman that likes muslims, as it is unlikely that you'll never find a Frenchman that dislikes them.

But really, a lot of people react with indignation to about everything they hear about the French on the news (the law forbidding religious symbols at schools etc.), because it's popular to jump on the bandwagon of 'French-haters'. And I'm talking mainly about countries like Holland, since I've lived there for six years. The apparent 'muslim-hating' of the French is for many people yet another argument to dislike them, but isn't that a bit hypocritical, seeing that the far-right is gaining popularity everywhere in Europe? The Flemish Interest (ex-Flemish Bloc) is now already the biggest party in Flanders (but it's unlikely they'll ever be able to form a government with anyone), people like Geert Wilders are becoming quite popular in Holland (and especially the distrust of muslims has risen incredibly after the murder on Theo van Gogh), and I won't even talk about countries like Austria.

Disliking whole countries is foolish, because many people just can't be judged by the country they're living in.

Alinania, you are by no means starting a fight, I fully respect your views, even if they are different than my own. (By no means do i fully agree with the views of the current President nor the previous one on every topic) To say terrorists are anyone that opposes you is far too ambiguous, and yes, the President does have a right, a duty mind you, as defined in the U.S. Constitution. Whether they agree with his motives or wanted the U.S. to go to war or not, Americans as a whole (given there are always exceptions) respect the fact that our freedom and security came into question when the U.S. was attacked by terrorists, which happen to be funded by some Muslim countries. This changed everything, as foreign policy now has to be prioritized by what prevents further terrorist attacks from occuring. The French don't want to help the U.S., as they never do (remember the denial of french airspace to U.S. planes when Libyan terrorists killed Americans) and the French greatly financially from keeping the former Iraqi leader in power. How can one question the "right" of a world leader to keep his nation and his allies from being attacked by terrorists?
Well, I can follow how the argumentation of attacking iraq was 'justified' through the US being attacked. But after that, to me, the reasoning is flawed:
'Terrorists' attacked the US. That's fine.
The US attack Iraq. I can still follow.
But then widening the enemy to 'moslem countries in general' just doesn't seem right. It's as if Germany attacked the US and then America goes on to declare war on France, Austria, Italy, Spain, and, while we're at it, all of Eastern Europe too. After all, they're all or most of them Christians, and they might be helping each other. I'm not a big fan of such generalizations.
Also, I really don't believe that the Islamic countries in question did pose any kind of threat to the US. (even the ones who admit to have/want nuclear weapons).
To get back to the President's duties: Isn't that a rather egotistical point of view? The world works on compromises. If one nation insists on their rights, that's ok as long as no other country is harmed by that (I know... this would be called war, and it happens quite often).
Maybe (probably) I'm naive, but I believe that if you don't attack another country, they don't have that many reasons to attack you (or put differently: if you do attack someone else, how do you expect that they accept this without fighting back?)
So it's either doing nothing -> there might be a future war, which you can still prepare for, or deciding to attack wherethere's definitely going to be a war (obviously) .
And in my opinion, being attacked once by a small group of people is not a proof that your country will be invaded any minute so that you have no other choice as to declare war. Besides, these terrorists weren't just funded by 'some muslim countries', but, if I remember correctly, also by the US.

I have no idea why Americans and the French don't like each other. I have no problem with the French. I didn't even KNOW that they apparently dislike each other before I came to NS.

funny isnt it, the first three presidents of the United States are called in academia, and government, "THE FRANCOPHILIC THREE" the French are the longest standing ally of the United States/13 Colonies, along about Monroe, the emphasis shifted to Anglophilia or love for England. I wonder if the hatred of France has anything to do with Free Trade policies? Charles De Gaulle was the greatest Frenchman, or one of at least, and he was openly anti-US, although privately he could work with the US, is this the reality today?? Where GWB is willing to cooperate with France, although he openly would speak against them, to pressure them into agreeing with US Foreign policy.
Je Parle un peu Francais e por qua je parle Vive la France!, Vive Napoleon!

I like crépes, they're French... in fact I like much of their cuisine.
Most people I know don't have any kind of problem with the French people, just the French government.

But this brings up an interesting question... depending on how democratic France's government actually is, our feelings toward France's government may well reflect our feelings towards the people. Do you follow?

That's true. Chirac himself is a conservative.

Not a conservative that would appeal to an American conservative though lmao!

How can one question the "right" of a world leader to keep his nation and his allies from being attacked by terrorists?

International politics are anarchistic, as to prevent this we have created certain rules wich every country sould abide by, not everybody do..But those who view themselves as "civilized" and a democrazy should try.. Not creating there own laws, as illegal combatans were the others use POW,to not use Pre-emptive strikes (the definition: there COULD be occuring a planned attack against the country in about ten or more years, A defensive war: another country attacks you, Pre-strike there concludes immidiate plans to invade you're country, the two last are international accepted but not the first :sniper: ) to let there own citizens to be tried for the international court in Haag for violations against human rights, to participate in world concerns as the kyoto agreement and the AMB agrements that has been made..To not be a break in the world's globalization but to participate :)

International politics are anarchistic, as to prevent this we have created certain rules wich every country sould abide by, not everybody do..But those who view themselves as "civilized" and a democrazy should try.. Not creating there own laws, as illegal combatans were the others use POW,to not use Pre-emptive strikes (the definition: there COULD be occuring a planned attack against the country in about ten or more years, A defensive war: another country attacks you, Pre-strike there concludes immidiate plans to invade you're country, the two last are international accepted but not the first :sniper: ) to let there own citizens to be tried for the international court in Haag for violations against human rights, to participate in world concerns as the kyoto agreement and the AMB agrements that has been made..To not be a break in the world's globalization but to participate :)
hehe, I especially like the 'demo-crazy' part :D

I'm American, and I think there's nothing wrong with France. But I think a lot of people think they are bad for not supporting the Iraq war... except they're not the only country that didn't... so I don't know why people picked on them so much. Like Freedom Fries, what is that?!? I like French Fries, thankyouverymuch. I refuse to eat Freedom Fries. That is dumb. I'm glad that junk is over!

Well, the publicity of it has subsided but there is a very successful trade boycott still going on with the wine industry. So successful in fact that the French have taken to naming some wines with non traditional, american sounding names, such as Fat Bastard. This is one of several French wines that are now selling in America and look identical to a California packaged product.
The problem most have with France has more to do with individuals within the government and some semi private business there lining their pockets by violating trade embargos the UN had in place against dual purpose items. Much has been silenced, however what they could not silence is the weapons that France continued to ship that has been used against US and British troops which there is hard evidence of enmass. Most of it in missle launching systems which have stand off launch devices. These devices about the size of a suitcase contain the shipping infomation, point of origion and dates painted prominately on the case. It didnt take long for that information to get picked up by embedded reporters and find its way to the american public.
Little else will be done on the matter until such time that Chirac is removed from office when he will be prosecuted for a range of corruption charges that his current allies are already on trial for. Currently he is immune for as long as he is President.

Most people I know don't have any kind of problem with the French people, just the French government.

That's a good thing to hear. A true fact about France is that you'll never get two person with the same opinions. Whenever you raise a question there, much of the time that's a 50/50.
So that's not "the french" bastards, but the bastards in the french government, or from france if you wish.


And Chirac is corrupted, but is wife is even worst :eek:

And hey...they both hate Muslims. W00T! :eek:

I dont hate Muslims I hate fanatical sunni muslims that think they have to kill a bunch of innocent people to praise "Allah"

Everybody hates the French government, even the French themselves.
It has something to do with the fact that there is still class warfare in France; even though they had a revolution, there is still an "upper society" of rich, aristocratic, arrogant persons... while the ordinary people struggle to find a job. In France, if your father doesn't have "contacts", good luck for finding a job.
It triggers a lot of resentment towards power, politics and big companies.

good analysis