NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a thread of the same type as ask a Muslim, though obviously about Pagans. There are many misconceptions non-Pagans have about us and this seems a good way to clear them up just as the thread that inspired this is clearing up misconceptions about Muslims. Fair warning though an old saying is that if you ask ten Pagans a question you can expect twelve answers . . .

Is it fun being part of a motorcycle gang?

What is your concept of god?

Jews, Roman Catholics, and many other people of faith believe that their religion was inspired through divine means and passed down in some approximation of its current form since that.

Do most pagans believe similarly? Is there a concept of divine revelation in pagan theology? Is it more subtle than the "traditional" way of viewing it?

Is there supposed to be some sort of unbroken connection between the current traditions and the pre-Christian European religions, or just some vague inspiration?

This is a thread of the same type as ask a Muslim, though obviously about Pagans. There are many misconceptions non-Pagans have about us and this seems a good way to clear them up just as the thread that inspired this is clearing up misconceptions about Muslims. Fair warning though an old saying is that if you ask ten Pagans a question you can expect twelve answers . . .

I assume don't like traditional religion. What is it about religion that prevented you from abandoning religion altogether?

Do you consider the term "pagan" to be an over-generalising catch-all term for anyone who follows a non-Asian polytheist religion?

Is it fun being part of a motorcycle gang?

:p

I presume you are joking. In case you are not I am refering to members of Pagan religions such as Wicca, NOT the motorcycle gang.

Jews, Roman Catholics, and many other people of faith believe that their religion was inspired through divine means and passed down in some approximation of its current form since that.

Do most pagans believe similarly? Is there a concept of divine revelation in pagan theology? Is it more subtle than the "traditional" way of viewing it?

^
As far as I know being an atheist, most religions origin from the same story, they all have the same point: Be good so that others would be good to you. Ok that's a bit farfetched but I hope you get my point.
During the Christian wars in the 12th and 13th century Christians adapted a lot of Pagan customs and modified them a little to suit their religion, Christams is one of these customs.

What is your concept of god?


Personaly I am what I call an Omnitheist, my conception is that all gods (including the Christian one) exist as seperate and distinct beings. Other Pagans think of the Lord and the Lady a simple generic male and female diety that have been perceived many diferent ways by many diferent cultures, some go even further and beleive that the Lord and the Lady are simply two aspects of a greater One.

Jews, Roman Catholics, and many other people of faith believe that their religion was inspired through divine means and passed down in some approximation of its current form since that.

Do most pagans believe similarly? Is there a concept of divine revelation in pagan theology? Is it more subtle than the "traditional" way of viewing it?

Is there supposed to be some sort of unbroken connection between the current traditions and the pre-Christian European religions, or just some vague inspiration?


All of this realy varies from traditon to tradition. Most admit to only having taken vague inspiration from the pre-Christian European religions as there are very few primary sources to work from. Some do feel that their tradition was revealed to them directly by their gods, and others claim (although these days few actualy give them credance) to have a liniage that can be traced all the way back to at least the middle ages.

:p

I presume you are joking. In case you are not I am refering to members of Pagan religions such as Wicca, NOT the motorcycle gang.

I often joke. I refuse to admit whether this was one of those times. But thanks for the clarification.

I wonder if there are any pagan Pagans. *rubs chin thoughtfully*

Personaly I am what I call an Omnitheist, my conception is that all gods (including the Christian one) exist as seperate and distinct beings. Other Pagans think of the Lord and the Lady a simple generic male and female diety that have been perceived many diferent ways by many diferent cultures, some go even further and beleive that the Lord and the Lady are simply two aspects of a greater One.
As an Omnitheist do you feel qualified to answer questions on Wicca, northern tradition, sisterhood of isis, ....oh I don't know ... a hundred others?
As a druid I struggle to answer questions on druidry.
Just wondered (not trying to pull you down).
Most pagans have studied a lot more than me to get to the start of their path.
Blessings

Rainy

I assume don't like traditional religion. What is it about religion that prevented you from abandoning religion altogether?


Now that is a tough one. Honestly the only answer I can give is that I feel that there is SOMETHING out there, but I could not conect that something to what I had been taught.

How do you feel about mostly to fully-orthodox Christians as people and what do you think of our beliefs?

As an Omnitheist do you feel qualified to answer questions on Wicca, northern tradition, sisterhood of isis, ....oh I don't know ... a hundred others?
As a druid I struggle to answer questions on druidry.
Just wondered (not trying to pull you down).
Most pagans have studied a lot more than me to get to the start of their path.
Blessings

Rainy

I feel qualifyed to answer a question by saying " Here is what I know on that subject, but as that is not my path I may be incorect in some or all aspects. Let me look into that and perhaps find someone who does follow that path to answer your question more compleatly." Honestly this board has suprised me, I was expecting at least one of the first few questions I got to be about animal and/or human sacrifice as this is one of the more common misconceptions . . . (of course I can confidently predict that if no one was going to ask before they will now that I brought it up).

How do you feel about mostly to fully-orthodox Christians as people and what do you think of our beliefs?

Like all other people I take them one person at a time and try not to develop an opinion about the whole, especialy as it seems diferent Christians have diferent ideas about what is Orthodox. As for your beleifs the only time I have a problem is when a Christian attempts to force their beleifs on another, for example passing laws against gay mariage or prayer in school, or for that matter attempting to convert others. It sometimes seems that evangelicals don't seem to understand that what they are saying when they attempt to convert someone is "We are smarter than you are and the holders of the only true way." Either that or they don't understand how insulting the former sounds to those who already have a religion and aren't looking to change.

I assume don't like traditional religion. What is it about religion that prevented you from abandoning religion altogether?
I've rarely seen a question so jam-packed with assumption. :)

I've rarely seen a question so jam-packed with assumption. :)

But jam is yummy, especialy stawberry. Honestly so far everyone has been very polite in their questions and I am extreamly greatful, and honestly a little suprised.

But jam is yummy, especialy stawberry.

And blackberry, too! :D

Ask a Pagan? Brilliant! Makes a nice change from US Christians V US atheists :)

This is a serious question and I don't mean to offend, but would you consider someone who goes to church while teaching their children to believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny a pagan?

This is a thread of the same type as ask a Muslim, though obviously about Pagans. There are many misconceptions non-Pagans have about us and this seems a good way to clear them up just as the thread that inspired this is clearing up misconceptions about Muslims. Fair warning though an old saying is that if you ask ten Pagans a question you can expect twelve answers . . .
What religion were you raised in? I was raised catholic but came to the conclusion the christianity was not for me in my high schools years. I don't know exactly what I believe in but "pagan" seems to be more accepting of my views. I'm big on the God Head theroy where we are all a piece of the whole god. Nature is a heavy factor in my belief as well which is common among pagan belief.

This is a serious question and I don't mean to offend, but would you consider someone who goes to church while teaching their children to believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny a pagan?
What church do they go to?

What church do they go to?

Does it make a difference?

If it does I'll say Christian.

I feel qualifyed to answer a question by saying " Here is what I know on that subject, but as that is not my path I may be incorect in some or all aspects. Let me look into that and perhaps find someone who does follow that path to answer your question more compleatly." Honestly this board has suprised me, I was expecting at least one of the first few questions I got to be about animal and/or human sacrifice as this is one of the more common misconceptions . . . (of course I can confidently predict that if no one was going to ask before they will now that I brought it up).
yeah that's suprised me too.
I think you're doing well and you can only tell what you know. Good attitude.
I love the way every Pagan I ever met respects your right to believe whatever you like, will debate without trying to convert and will defend you're right to believe what you want.

Oh, if you need a good recipe for mead I'm your man :p

BB
Rainy

This is a serious question and I don't mean to offend, but would you consider someone who goes to church while teaching their children to believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny a pagan?
I personally wouldn't.
A belief in Christ (the one god) is not normally compatible with pagan beliefs (the many gods, female gods, godhead, nature spritits et al.)

Others would disagree.
Great thing about Pagans WE agree to disagree and then go down the pub.
Other religions disagree then blow each other up. :rolleyes:

yeah that's suprised me too.
I think you're doing well and you can only tell what you know. Good attitude.
I love the way every Pagan I ever met respects your right to believe whatever you like, will debate without trying to convert and will defend you're right to believe what you want.

Oh, if you need a good recipe for mead I'm your man :p

BB
Rainy

Sir, I love you very much now, for that meade comment. *nods* It is indeed the nectar of the gods.

I agree with you on the lack of attempted conversions and all..I'm the same way (am an Eccletic Pagan).

To the poster of the thread..If I happen to see a question that you don't know the answer to, and I do, mind if I jump in to help?

yesterday i went to the Jewish museum in my town and the woman talked about the Shabbath, the connection between this thread and her was she said-"there is a jewish joke; two jews- three opinions" very close to what you said before. coincedince-or is it?

yesterday i went to the Jewish museum in my town and the woman talked about the Shabbath, the connection between this thread and her was she said-"there is a jewish joke; two jews- three opinions" very close to what you said before. coincedince-or is it?
I'll field this one being the first Pagan up this morning :D (baby sitting duties)

The Pagans I have met have all come to their belief (path maybe) by very different routes. Reaching the start of the path for some is a long and difficult journey. These seem to be people who are searching for something which fits the hole that they have for belief/spirituality/godhead.
Other religions seem to ask you to fit the hole around their dogma and that offends those of us who say "why?".
Why go to church to find an omnipresent god?
Why pray to gods devised in the middle east? How do these relate to me?

We have gods of Place. The Romans (pre-christian) were very good at recognising the pagan gods of every place they conquered. They were pagans and you don't want to offend a local god.

This all means that we all have different gods, different ideas of how much to revere them, different practices and we revel in the difference. We drink (lots) to it. Paganism is a very broad hat to wear. Judaism seems to be a tiny little beany cap by comparison.

My mom says theres alot of black people in China.

What religion were you raised in?

I was raised Christian of no specific denomination.

Sir, I love you very much now, for that meade comment. *nods* It is indeed the nectar of the gods.

I agree with you on the lack of attempted conversions and all..I'm the same way (am an Eccletic Pagan).

To the poster of the thread..If I happen to see a question that you don't know the answer to, and I do, mind if I jump in to help?

That would be wonderful, thank you.

Is a goat, goat meat, goat blood, or goat byproducts involved in any way shape or form?
Im sorry, I couldnt help it ^_^

Is a goat, goat meat, goat blood, or goat byproducts involved in any way shape or form?
Im sorry, I couldnt help it ^_^

Only if I go to the Carribian (damn I hope I spelled that right) resturant in my area that serves a mean goat curry. :p

Carribean

I think. O.o;

which is the greater diety in celtic dieties, Cernunnous or Belinius?

If I were to believe that their is one primary diety and all the other gods are servents under that diety, would that make me have a pagan belief?

I respect nature, feel that it was natures paradise that we were born into and that we all should strive to return to our nature paradise, does that fit with pagan thinking?

Beltaine and Samhain are the two celtic 'months' of the year, are there astrological signs that show when these two times change over, or does the current solar calender do all the work for you?

which is the greater diety in celtic dieties, Cernunnous or Belinius?

Not following a Celtic path I'm going to have to punt right now. Doing some research online but not coming up with much on the later, mostly references to him as having been a (posibly mythological) person rather than a diety.

If I were to believe that their is one primary diety and all the other gods are servents under that diety, would that make me have a pagan belief?

That would fit with many modes of Pagan thought, and was a traditional beleif in paleo-pagan cultures (for example, Odin chief diety of the Norse pantheon with the other gods lesser than he, or Zeus/Jupiter of the grecko/roman peoples . . .)

I respect nature, feel that it was natures paradise that we were born into and that we all should strive to return to our nature paradise, does that fit with pagan thinking?

It seems so yes.

Beltaine and Samhain are the two celtic 'months' of the year, are there astrological signs that show when these two times change over, or does the current solar calender do all the work for you?

Beltaine and Samhain (the later pronounced sow-en NOT sam-hain despite the spelling) are holidays of the ancient druids now celebrated by many if not most neo-pagans. As I recall they were established by a culture using a lunar rather than solar calender. These days Beltaine is usualy celebrated on or near the summer solstice and Samhain on October 31st (possibly a date of conveniance close to the traditional date). The astrological sign showing Beltaine should be fairly obvious, I am not aware of one that demonstraits that it is time for Samhain but I'm not the type to concern myself with if the planets and stars are in the right place for anything I do, including rituals or magic.

Is a goat, goat meat, goat blood, or goat byproducts involved in any way shape or form?
Im sorry, I couldnt help it ^_^
Many of the people in the world who could be defined as "Pagans" do use blood or sacrificial animals.
If I may suggest, if one wishes to make a true sacrifice, perhaps they should consider letting their own blood. If you had no intention of feeding your family with a goat, then killing and offering it to the Gods is no sacrifice.
The term pagan is far too broad for my liking, and I object to anyone who has a pagan belief system claiming to be an authority on "Paganism", unless they have also studied the pagan religions of the world in a recognized educational institution.
Blessed Be

Many of the people in the world who could be defined as "Pagans" do use blood or sacrificial animals.
If I may suggest, if one wishes to make a true sacrifice, perhaps they should consider letting their own blood. If you had no intention of feeding your family with a goat, then killing and offering it to the Gods is no sacrifice.

Actualy to my understanding (mind it's only the ritual sacrifice practiced by followers of Vodoon that I'm familiar with, and not first hand) a goat or chicken, or anything other sacrificial animal is cooked and eaten by the worshipers. It is the blood that the Loa desire.

The term pagan is far too broad for my liking, and I object to anyone who has a pagan belief system claiming to be an authority on "Paganism", unless they have also studied the pagan religions of the world in a recognized educational institution.
Blessed Be

(Searches the thread for anyone claming to be an autority of any kind and fails to find them)

Ok then, fine by me.

Many of the people in the world who could be defined as "Pagans" do use blood or sacrificial animals.
If I may suggest, if one wishes to make a true sacrifice, perhaps they should consider letting their own blood. If you had no intention of feeding your family with a goat, then killing and offering it to the Gods is no sacrifice.
The term pagan is far too broad for my liking, and I object to anyone who has a pagan belief system claiming to be an authority on "Paganism", unless they have also studied the pagan religions of the world in a recognized educational institution.
Blessed Be
Emma Restal Ore defines sacrifice as (to mis-quote) "the giving of something that you can ill afford to give".
That, to me, doesn't mean buying a goat and making a mess of it. In the past the sacrifice of livestock was valid. Food could not be spared but it was worth it to placate the gods. I personally give a good dose of each bottle of mead to the earth. It's a small thing but I really would rather drink it and when the bottom of the bottle is reached sooner than expected everyone feels it. :p
The thing that so many people love is the breadth of Paganism. No-one here claims to be an authority on anything but their own place on their own path. I can tell you what I do and why. I can tell you what I've been told and what I've read but I'm far from an authority.
Paganism, like anything, has its share of arseholes, high priestess this's and high wickywacky thats. But that is more to do with human egos than paganism. they don't like it if you laugh at them. they just go away. Strangely these are the "Authorities" that i meet most often.

Pagan is a vague term. The Hindus are Pagans, the Buddhists are pagans, the Shinto are pagan...

You should have been more specific.

I dont think that you can discuss non-western belief systems such as Shintoism, Buddhism, or Hinduism as "pagan." I've learned from experiance that it is usually best to define people with their own terms and "pagan" is not a good substitute for "polytheistic" and it is a worse substitute for 'non-abrahamic." I think this thred is concentrating on neo-pagan traditions that were created no earlier then the 19th century partially to emulate the ancient religions of Europe although some have asimilated random elements from one Amerindian tribe or another. I hope that I haven't overeached my place as an outsider.

btw: If I ever had to teach some sort of creationism i'd go with the viking story. I mean the comic cow alone makes it cooler then Adam and Eve or the first story of creation in the bible. When you have Odin and his brothers hack up a giant in order to make the world it points to an entirly different theological system.

I dont think that you can discuss non-western belief systems such as Shintoism, Buddhism, or Hinduism as "pagan." I've learned from experiance that it is usually best to define people with their own terms and "pagan" is a good substitute for "polytheistic" and it is a worse substitute for 'non-abrahamic." I think this thred is concentrating on neo-pagan traditions that were created no earlier then the 19th century partially to emulate the ancient religions of Europe although some have asimilated random elements from one Amerindian tribe or another. I hope that I haven't overeached my place as an outsider.

btw: If I ever had to teach some sort of creationism i'd go with the viking story. I mean the comic cow alone makes it cooler then Adam and Eve or the first story of creation in the bible. When you have Odin and his brothers hack up a giant in order to make the world it points to an entirly different theological system.

It's not that I believe Shintoism, Buddhism, or Hinduism as lesser or anything, but all the abrahimic religions call non-abrahimic Pagan. It also refers to people who are in cults, which a lot of the time(but not all of the time) are polytheistic or animistic

It's not that I believe Shintoism, Buddhism, or Hinduism as lesser or anything, but all the abrahimic religions call non-abrahimic Pagan. It also refers to people who are in cults, which a lot of the time(but not all of the time) are polytheistic or animistic
This is just a matter of terminology and not reality.
Pagan comes from the latin pagani which means country dweller. Caesar used it as an insult for the (he thought) unsophisticated non-roman tribes.
We choose to use it to describe a broad range of beliefs, mostly nature revering.
That the Christians et al. choose to use it as an insult just amuses. I'd much rather be associated with free thinkers than hide bound dogmatists.
The Pagan Federation a couple of years ago tried to reduce the support they gave to only include native european paganism but much debate later it was decided that in all probability, due to years of tribal movements, Amerindian beliefs were linked to siberian shamanism which spread across the north to scandanavia and influenced the rest of europe so (other than the far east) world Paganism does seem to be linked.
Of course thats all very tenuous but if we're not linked in reality we are in spirit.
I'm no expert on particular paths but I love the inclusive nature of paganism.
I will celebrate the solstice woth druids, wiccans, hedge witches, nortern traditionalists, and general pagans. All self titled, all happy to work together while believing that their way is the best way to be BUT not trying to push it down anyone elses throat.
Try that wiht any other religion in the world. History seems to show that if you get two different christians trying to share the same space one will always try to blow the other up because they believe in the same god in different ways. No wonder so many people turn to the peace that paganism offers.

suppose you go down to a wooded creek and sit upon a concrete bridge that crosses over it, and at first its really peaceful. Then, after a youngin talks about messing with the darker side of the spirit world, there is a strong presence, that as time goes on becomes more and more focused on yourself.

Then, after trying to 'study' it, it grabs your attention, and then you realize that you have little burns on your pants, that weren't there earlier, and now are.

what would you think?

suppose you go down to a wooded creek and sit upon a concrete bridge that crosses over it, and at first its really peaceful. Then, after a youngin talks about messing with the darker side of the spirit world, there is a strong presence, that as time goes on becomes more and more focused on yourself.

Then, after trying to 'study' it, it grabs your attention, and then you realize that you have little burns on your pants, that weren't there earlier, and now are.

what would you think?
Don't play with matches in a wood?
Get some psychiatric help?
In the system I believe in the idea of dark and light is reserved for and by christians.
How can the rain, wind, earth be bad. They just are. People die in storms. it's not evil; it just is.
There are no dark spririts except in your mind.
Learn to accept what's around you as it is. there is no hidden malevalence in a tree. :rolleyes:

I do have a question.

First of all, I was baptised and confirmed as a Roman Catholic, although these days I call myself a Practical Christian Theorist - the point? Well, as I was learning about my own faith (that at the time beign RC) I discovered that Christmas, Easter, St. Valentines and Halloween were all stolen from the Pagans by the Catholic church.

I would go into further detail, but I have stuff to do, although I will be sure to ellaborate on this point later.

Anyway, my question is, how do you feel about the fact that the Catholic church has taken all of these dates from the Pagans and made them their own?

------------

Great idea for having the thread.

Until next time

why not go the whole hog, and just be an aiethiest? makes life sooooo much easier! and you can pick and choose the more commercialised holidays to celebrate! I can do Christmas AND Hannuka! FABULOUS!!!!!!!!!!

I do have a question.

First of all, I was baptised and confirmed as a Roman Catholic, although these days I call myself a Practical Christian Theorist - the point? Well, as I was learning about my own faith (that at the time beign RC) I discovered that Christmas, Easter, St. Valentines and Halloween were all stolen from the Pagans by the Catholic church.

I would go into further detail, but I have stuff to do, although I will be sure to ellaborate on this point later.

Anyway, my question is, how do you feel about the fact that the Catholic church has taken all of these dates from the Pagans and made them their own?


Personally It doesn't bother me. Infact it makes life easier 'cos I always have holidays when I want to celebrate (well mostly).
The christians in Britain appropriated many holy sites to build churches on. This makes sense. If you want to convert a population you say "look, your celebrations are our celebrations, your holy places are holy to us and even your gods are minor gods in our system" (St. Brigit = Bridie etc.)
We are not the Pagans of 2000 years ago (although some of us like to pretend :) ) we could be judged as having stolen their "ideas" as much as anyone else.
The only beef I have is when my local vicar tells me that I'm evil because I celbrate Halloween (Samhian actual but that makes it worse for him) when the failing is his for not understanding what it's all about.

why not go the whole hog, and just be an aiethiest? makes life sooooo much easier! and you can pick and choose the more commercialised holidays to celebrate! I can do Christmas AND Hannuka! FABULOUS!!!!!!!!!!
Ah, but we get those off too (as mandatory holidays) and THEN can put in for extra leave for "special" celebrations.
And we have a good excuse to get drunk and dance naked in the woods :p

Five tons of flax, wasn't it?

I do have a question.

First of all, I was baptised and confirmed as a Roman Catholic, although these days I call myself a Practical Christian Theorist - the point? Well, as I was learning about my own faith (that at the time beign RC) I discovered that Christmas, Easter, St. Valentines and Halloween were all stolen from the Pagans by the Catholic church.

I would go into further detail, but I have stuff to do, although I will be sure to ellaborate on this point later.

Anyway, my question is, how do you feel about the fact that the Catholic church has taken all of these dates from the Pagans and made them their own?


A date is not something that can belong to a person, so in a sense even though they "stole" the day from us we still "have" it.