NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people forget that a lot of Fighting of World War Two Was done In Burma, the Philepenes (sp?) and much of that area.This is Just a debate on the Stategy, Units, Forces and so forth used in the conflict of the area...

Many people forget that a lot of Fighting of World War Two Was done In Burma, the Philepenes (sp?) and much of that area.This is Just a debate on the Stategy, Units, Forces and so forth used in the conflict of the area...

December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy

These were the words of FDR on December 8th, a day after Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor is the Home of the US Pacific Fleet. It posed a threat to the territorial ambitions of the Empire of Japan.

Admiral Yamamoto knew that he had to score a decisive victory here at Pearl Harbor if Japan had any hope of defeating the US. The plan was brilliant and it was done almost perfectly. There was one minor problem with the Japanese Assault. Well, in reality, two. The first was the attack itself. It was done perfectly, no doubt about it, however they left some strategic targets untouched. Those being the drydocks and the oil depots. If Japan had hit those in the planned 3rd Wave, the US would've been in bigger trouble than the attack already caused. The second minor problem (which became major as Coral Sea and Midway proved) was that our carriers were not in port at the time. The Enterprise (perhaps the luckiest ship alive) was a day late in arriving at Pearl due to bad weather. It arrived the day after the assault.

These two facts is important to keep in mind as the ensuing fight between the US and Japan ensued. Over the course of the next few years, the US got better at Carrier Tactics. Though Japan had more carriers at the start of the war, the US outdid them in carriers and the US got better carrier planes than the Japanese did. This proved detremental to the Survival of Japan.

I hear this

Yamomoto got the Idea of Bombing the U.lS fleet in Harbour after he Witnessed the sinking of the Italian fleet by the british...it is a definate fact that he was there when it happened and it would seem that this is whare he got the idea

was it true that a Japanese pilot had nearly two years of training?

I hear this

Yamomoto got the Idea of Bombing the U.lS fleet in Harbour after he Witnessed the sinking of the Italian fleet by the british...it is a definate fact that he was there when it happened and it would seem that this is whare he got the idea

That was how he got the idea alright. Both the Italian Port and Pearl Harbor were both shallow water ports. Normal torps didn't work. The Japs redid their torpedos and they worked spectacularly. The Japs also had better tech early on but that didn't last for long.

was it true that a Japanese pilot had nearly two years of training?

I think it was but I'm not 100% sure on it.

That was how he got the idea alright. Both the Italian Port and Pearl Harbor were both shallow water ports. Normal torps didn't work. The Japs redid their torpedos and they worked spectacularly. The Japs also had better tech early on but that didn't last for long.



I think it was but I'm not 100% sure on it.

oh cool i got something right
...What was the other question?...oh yes...Was the Pre-pearl U.S helmet the same as the Britich "tommy" helmet?

Of course it should also be noted that Adm. Yamamoto was against this, but...

Oh, and I agree with your statement on the Big E, she was very lucky wasn't she?

SHE should have been the one in Tokyo Bay, but I guess the President gets to choose the ship and if he wants to one launched by his wife and named for his home state, so be it.

Many people forget that a lot of Fighting of World War Two Was done In Burma, the Philepenes (sp?) and much of that area.This is Just a debate on the Stategy, Units, Forces and so forth used in the conflict of the area...


WOOOTTT!!!!

Yes!

For a nice little first toss out on the topic: The battles of Imphal and Kohima were, IMHO, on the same strategic level of importance as Stalingrad was in the ETO.

BTW, it the Philippines. ;)

But wasnt the Arizona severely damaged at Pearl?...also was Pearl mainly a sub base?

WOOOTTT!!!!

Yes!

For a nice little first toss out on the topic: The battles of Imphal and Kohima were, IMHO, on the same strategic level of importance as Stalingrad was in the ETO.

BTW, it the Philippines. ;)


thankue for the spelling correction :)

But wasnt the Arizona severely damaged at Pearl?...also was Pearl mainly a sub base?

Pearl was the home of the WHOLE Pacific Fleet. It became such when FDR took office and moved it there.

As for the Arizona, it was literally blown out of the water when a bomb penetrated one of the turrets and detonated the magazine. Nearly, if not more, than half of the deaths at Pearl Harbor came from the Destruction of the USS Arizona

Of course it should also be noted that Adm. Yamamoto was against this, but...

Yep he was against this. Also when he heard that the attack took place before the declaration of war was delivered to Secretary of State Hull:

"All I feared we've done is awaken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve"

Also, he only garunteed victory for 6 months to a year before the US caught up. He was right.

Oh, and I agree with your statement on the Big E, she was very lucky wasn't she?

No kidding. Which brings me to a time when I worked at a grocery store. I actually had a customer who served on that ship under Admiral Halsey. That was fun listening to him.

SHE should have been the one in Tokyo Bay, but I guess the President gets to choose the ship and if he wants to one launched by his wife and named for his home state, so be it.

FDR is from New York and NOT Missouri. It was the USS Missouri that was used for the surrender ceremony.

oh....so wouldnt it have made more sense to take the Arizona to Japan to sign the treaty? (which they did..didnt they) instead of the Enterprise?...it was a Brilliant bit of symbology

Kinda hard to send a ship that was blown apart. It sank.

oh....so wouldnt it have made more sense to take the Arizona to Japan to sign the treaty? (which they did..didnt they) instead of the Enterprise?...it was a Brilliant bit of symbology

The Arizona is an underwater grave...

FDR is from New York and NOT Missouri. It was the USS Missouri that was used for the surrender ceremony.


that was the one! the Missouri...

The Arizona is an underwater grave...

..yep Acknowledged. my bad. Not big on U.S Naval History

that was the one! the Missouri...

For the record, President Truman was from Missouri, not FDR. (He was from New York). At the time of surrender, the Missouri was the newest battleship in the world (and in the US fleet), which was another reason why it was chosen: it was the fastest and most impressive.

Kinda hard to send a ship that was blown apart. It sank.

...i think i will just delete that post

Were Zekes the fasted planes in the pacific until the last couple of years?

...i think i will just delete that post

LOL! Sorry E Blackadder. You don't have too. :)

LOL! Sorry E Blackadder. You don't have too. :)


no no i have...i should know these things...Next year i am sta\ring a Two year course on History and intend to do my "icon Study" on Either Montgommerey, Eisenhower, Mcarthur,Patton, Or Dempsy and need to at least know what ship the surrender of Japan was singed on....now i know why people think i am an idiot..theuy are probably right

But wasnt the Arizona severely damaged at Pearl?...also was Pearl mainly a sub base?

Ummm... sunk by a cataclysmic explosion of the ammunition magazine counts as sever damage, doesn't it?
;)

The Pacific Fleet at Pearl had: 8 battleships, 6 cruisers, 29 destroyers, 9 submarines.

oh....so wouldnt it have made more sense to take the Arizona to Japan to sign the treaty?...it was a Brilliant bit of symbology

:eek:

Ummm - no.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/USSArizonaPearlHarbor.jpg

Thanks again Daistillia, i had my states and ships all mixed up

no no i have...i should know these things...Next year i am sta\ring a Two year course on History and intend to do my "icon Study" on Either Montgommerey, Eisenhower, Mcarthur,Patton, Or Dempsy and need to at least know what ship the surrender of Japan was singed on....now i know why people think i am an idiot..theuy are probably right

Your not an idiot E Blackadder. If were you, study Patton. :)

Your not an idiot E Blackadder. If were you, study Patton. :)

:) Thanks for not thinking i am an idiot

hmm...i enjoyed the film..he had a nice dog too..callled william the conqueror(sp?) but i know more on Monty or Dempsy...i could do a Comparison to Patton and Monty...pointing out the differences between the two....However i may do Winston Churchill...there was a brilliant program on TV a few days ago about him

Ok, now that we debated Pearl Harbor....

After the Japanese defeat of the US Pacific Fleet there (Face it, it was an American defeat and it caused us to fight defensively for a time), the Japanese moved down in the naval blitzkrieg of the Pacific. Philippines, Wake, Guam, and many more islands, not to mention French Indochina, Britains Singapore (not to mention the sinking of their battleships by the Japs) also fell. This effectively tossed the Brits and French from the Pacific. Around 1943, I think, the Burma theater of war was instituted. The French were completely driven out of the area (did it matter since France didn't exist since 1940?).

The United States managed to do pinprick strikes for a time. Then in April 1942, LT. Col. Jimmy Doolittle led a raid consisting of B-25s from the Deck of the USS Hornet and dropped bombs over Japan. Though it didn't cause that much damage. It struck a blow to the Japanese Morale not to mentioned they lost face because they stated that no enemy bombs shall fall on the Japanese Homeland. It was shortly thereafter that they launched the Coral Sea Campaign. A Campaign that was checked by the US Navy though it cost us one frontline heavy carrier, USS Lexington and severely damaged the USS Yorktown The Yorktown managed to get back to Pearl and was rebuilt, sort of, in 3 days and left for Midway.

No kidding. Which brings me to a time when I worked at a grocery store. I actually had a customer who served on that ship under Admiral Halsey. That was fun listening to him.

Reminds me of meeting my brother's neighbor a few years ago. Little bro bought himself a farm in Iowa. On Veterans Day, he happened to ask his neighbor (who is of a certain age) if he had served, so he could thank him if he had. Turns out he sure enough had served - '42-'45 as a corpsman with "Uncle Sams Mischevious Children", inclunding Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima, IIRC. Had some 27 battles stars, again IIRC.

I had the pleasure of meeting him when I visited 6 weeks later at Xmas.

Oh, E Blackadder, sorry, those others slipped in while I was writing up mine..

BTW, I suspect they *signed* the surrender treaty, but it would have made history more interesting if they has "singed".
;)
(Sorry, I couldn't help chuckling at that one. We all make mistakes. If it makes you feel any better, a couple of months ago, some of my English students here asked why I had spelled "who is" as "W-H-O-S-E". Doh! :p)

:) Thanks for not thinking i am an idiot

hmm...i enjoyed the film..he had a nice dog too..callled william the conqueror(sp?) but i know more on Monty or Dempsy...i could do a Comparison to Patton and Monty...pointing out the differences between the two....

To borrow a quote from the Movie Patton "We have two premodanna in Monty and Patton" Those two didn't like eachother whatsoever. Comparing them is an excellent idea. :)

However i may do Winston Churchill...there was a brilliant program on TV a few days ago about him

It is ultimately your choice :)

oh cool i got something right
...What was the other question?...oh yes...Was the Pre-pearl U.S helmet the same as the Britich "tommy" helmet?

Ooohh, missed that in the noise. I'm not sure. Hold on a moment, and I'll see what I can google up...

I had a grandfather who was in Changi and then on the Burma railway from the fall of Singapore until VJ day. Not a happy piece of family hsitory.

[QUOTE=Corneliu]To borrow a quote from the Movie Patton "We have two premodanna in Monty and Patton" Those two didn't like eachother whatsoever. Comparing them is an excellent idea. :)



QUOTE]

My dad said that would be a good idea..i did a project a few months ago on them as welll....i will see if i can get anything from it

I had a grandfather who was in Changi and then on the Burma railway from the fall of Singapore until VJ day. Not a happy piece of family hsitory.


No...Definatly not...The worst prison to be in was a japanese one...I hear that alot of guards on Jap Railroads were korean..Anyway..what regiment was he in?

To borrow a quote from the Movie Patton "We have two premodanna in Monty and Patton" Those two didn't like eachother whatsoever. Comparing them is an excellent idea. :)

My dad said that would be a good idea..i did a project a few months ago on them as welll....i will see if i can get anything from it

I wish you luck :)

Ok, now that we debated Pearl Harbor....

After the Japanese defeat of the US Pacific Fleet there (Face it, it was an American defeat and it caused us to fight defensively for a time), the Japanese moved down in the naval blitzkrieg of the Pacific. Philippines, Wake, Guam, and many more islands, not to mention French Indochina, Britains Singapore (not to mention the sinking of their battleships by the Japs) also fell. This effectively tossed the Brits and French from the Pacific. Around 1943, I think, the Burma theater of war was instituted. The French were completely driven out of the area (did it matter since France didn't exist since 1940?).

The United States managed to do pinprick strikes for a time. Then in April 1942, LT. Col. Jimmy Doolittle led a raid consisting of B-25s from the Deck of the USS Hornet and dropped bombs over Japan. Though it didn't cause that much damage. It struck a blow to the Japanese Morale not to mentioned they lost face because they stated that no enemy bombs shall fall on the Japanese Homeland. It was shortly thereafter that they launched the Coral Sea Campaign. A Campaign that was checked by the US Navy though it cost us one frontline heavy carrier, USS Lexington and severely damaged the USS Yorktown The Yorktown managed to get back to Pearl and was rebuilt, sort of, in 3 days and left for Midway.

I have a postcard with the york town on it :D

We drove the Japanese from mainland Asia...genereal slim and so forth..of course that was later on..still Japanese Soldiers didnt step foot on India..due to Chindits who played hell with there supplys. (my great uncle Syrel was in the chindits. he was a cook and in charge of the mules :) )

I wish you luck :)


Tahnkue..i am going to post the file from my project to get some feedback...patton is page 5 i think

It's almost bed time, so not much. Here's some pics of a "US WWII Dough boy helmet".

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/mh246.htm

Looks like a tommy to me.

It's almost bed time, so not much. Here's some pics of a "US WWII Dough boy helmet".

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/mh246.htm

Looks like a tommy to me.

Very similar to the WW1 Tommy helmet..very simmilar...
goodnight daistillia

I have a postcard with the york town on it :D

We drove the Japanese from mainland Asia...genereal slim and so forth..of course that was later on..still Japanese Soldiers didnt step foot on India..due to Chindits who played hell with there supplys. (my great uncle Syrel was in the chindits. he was a cook and in charge of the mules :) )

Yea that did come later. Its cool that you had a relative that fought. :)

Yea that did come later. Its cool that you had a relative that fought. :)

I am not sure if he fought as such...My Family seems to have a strong Military past what about you Corneliu?

No...Definatly not...The worst prison to be in was a japanese one...I hear that alot of guards on Jap Railroads were korean..Anyway..what regiment was he in?

He wasn't in the army: he was a teacher in Malaya and then part of the militia/reserve after his wife and kids were evacuated to Australia.

I am not sure if he fought as such...My Family seems to have a strong Military past what about you Corneliu?

I come from a military background myself. I had an Uncle in the Marines, a cousin in the Navy, had another cousin who was in the Army. My father is still in the USAF and my mother was also in the air force too. Most of my dad's brothers served in the AF too.

So yea, I come from a strong military background too.

He wasn't in the army: he was a teacher in Malaya and then part of the militia/reserve after his wife and kids were evacuated to Australia.

and he was put in a jap prison camp?....they really have no regard for the geneva convention do they

and he was put in a jap prison camp?....they really have no regard for the geneva convention do they

E Blackadder, what the soldiers did at Abu Ghraib is NOTHING compared to what the japs put soldier and civilian through.

I had to make that comparison because Abu Ghraib was bad enough but the Japs Prison Camps were a ton worse. Read up on the Batan Death March. That was a gross violation of the Geneva Conventions. Did the Japs care? No! Why? Because to them, surrendering is dishonorable. They treated our solders the way they did because in their minds because of that culture.

It is interesting to note however, that in World War 1, the Japanese treated their prisioners in accordane WITH the Geneva Accords. They didn't do that in World War 2.

I come from a military background myself. I had an Uncle in the Marines, a cousin in the Navy, had another cousin who was in the Army. My father is still in the USAF and my mother was also in the air force too. Most of my dad's brothers served in the AF too.

So yea, I come from a strong military background too.

Cool. My uncle Ken was in the Artillerey i think..and my Uncle RAy was In the Infantry..My dad was Infantry, his dad was infantry...my mum's dad was a despatch rider in the war....my great Granddad was in the Navy and his Brother as i said was in a cavelry regiment....My Grandma was a Waf and her Brother (syril) was a Chindit...I dont think i will get in the Army though..if i ever have kids though they are going in :p

and he was put in a jap prison camp?....they really have no regard for the geneva convention do they


I believe he was part of the Straits Settlements Volunteer Force, and as such was classified as a combatant.

It is interesting to note however, that in World War 1, the Japanese treated their prisioners in accordane WITH the Geneva Accords. They didn't do that in World War 2.


how odd......why did they stop i wonder?...

I know that it was Hell as a prisoner of war under the Japs..i was reading a book called "Line of Lost lifes" about a british prisoner of war..i met the Author at the book sale, it was his autobiography of the times...interesting read too..although i never finished the book :(

I believe he was part of the Straits Settlements Volunteer Force, and as such was classified as a combatant.

ah yes...

and he was put in a jap prison camp?....they really have no regard for the geneva convention do they

Why should they? The didn't sign it in 1929.

how odd......why did they stop i wonder?...

The government. They weren't under a military government during World War One but they were in World War Two. It also interesting to note that in WWI, Japan was allied with the USA.

I know that it was Hell as a prisoner of war under the Japs..i was reading a book called "Line of Lost lifes" about a british prisoner of war..i met the Author at the book sale, it was his autobiography of the times...interesting read too..although i never finished the book :(

I'll look into it. Do you know the title of the book?

The government. They weren't under a military government during World War One but they were in World War Two. It also interesting to note that in WWI, Japan was allied with the USA.



I'll look into it. Do you know the title of the book?

Line of Lost lives by J.S. Cosford

Why should they? The didn't sign it in 1929.

Incorrect. They signed it but didn't ratify it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bataan/peopleevents/e_geneva.html

In 1929 the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War was signed by 47 governments. Japan signed the 1929 convention but failed to ratify it. However, in 1942, Japan indicated it would follow the Geneva rules and would observe the Hague Convention of 1907 outlining the laws and customs of war.

how odd......why did they stop i wonder?...

They became obstacles in the way of their military plans. It should be noted that despite the wartime belief in the racial superiority of the Japanese, the maltreatment of POWs and civilian internees were not directly a result of these: in some of the camps the conditions were so bad that the Japanese and Korean army guards themselves had as high a fatality rate as the inmates.

They became obstacles in the way of their military plans. It should be noted that despite the wartime belief in the racial superiority of the Japanese, the maltreatment of POWs and civilian internees were not directly a result of these: in some of the camps the conditions were so bad that the Japanese and Korean army guards themselves had as high a fatality rate as the inmates.

oh.....Still..i would hate to be in a Jap P.O.W camp.....Especially after the line about "the conditions were so bad....."

Incorrect. They signed it but didn't ratify it.

Apologies. However, the issue remains basically the same: it wasn't as if they were breaking the convention whilst claiming to uphold it.

That hague convention is pretty long...reminds me of the time i copied and pasted the geneva convention....not all of it just the 4th one i think

The Japs did underestimate a few things.

1. Our resolve. Losing most of your fleet in the opening engagement is enought to cow anyone. The US perservered. I think its because that our carriers were not in port at the time. If they were, I don't think the US would've recovered as fast as they did.

2. They didn't hit the dry docks and oil fields. If they have done that, the ships that were damaged and those that were salvagable, wouldn't have been repaired as fast as they were. We wouldn't have fuel either to keep the fleet going.

3. They underestimated the lengths in which we were reading their mail. We knew they were going to attack Coral Sea and we barely checked them their though we lost 1 and nearly another carrier whereas they lost a light carrier and had a heavy carrier damaged. We knew there were going to hit Midway and that was the death nell of the Japanese in this war. That was the massive turning point though it can be argued that the Doolittle Raid was the turning point.