NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm beginning to wonder how someone like this can continue to breathe air. How parents somehow trust these people. How our system can continue to be ineffective at identifying, prosecuting, and executing these people.

And before you think, "only in the US..." think again. The UK has a very effective program that is arresting hundreds of these monsters by trapping them on the Internet. What is your country doing to stop this sort of thing?

From the New York Times...

SAN FRANCISCO, June 16 - A convicted child molester jailed in California may have sexually assaulted hundreds of young boys in the United States, Brazil and Mexico, the police said Thursday, based on a search of the man's San Jose home that the police said uncovered a cache of child pornography and detailed journals describing, sometimes in code, the sexual acts performed on children.

Calling the man, Dean Arthur Schwartzmiller, a "serial child predator," the police in San Jose said they had been holding him in the Santa Clara County Jail without bail since June 7, pending a preliminary hearing. Mr. Schwartzmiller, 63, has been charged with seven counts of child molestating of multiple victims, including one count of aggravated sexual assault on a child under 14 and six counts of lewd and lascivious conduct on a child under 14.

The police, who discussed the case for the first time Thursday, in part to urge other victims to come forward, said Mr. Schwartzmiller, a contractor, was arrested in Washington on May 23 and transferred to San Jose.

The police had already searched his home, where they said they found seven wire-bound notebooks with names, mostly of boys ages 8 to 18, listed on the front and back of each page. The police said that in total, the ledgers contained 36,000 entries, each listing a name, hair color, age and sexual act, often noted in an elaborate code that the authorities are trying to unravel.

"The most astonishing and disturbing part is the number of names he has listed in these spiral notebooks," said Lt. Scott Cornfield of the San Jose police sexual assault investigations unit.

The police have yet to determine how many of the journal entries are duplicates. "If you assume 10 percent of them are actual cases, that's 3,600 acts," Lieutenant Cornfield said. "Even if you assume 1 percent, that's 360 victims."

The police also seized several computers and a descriptive narrative of what they believe are Mr. Schwartzmiller's sexual exploits with the children listed in the ledgers.

The police said records show that Mr. Schwartzmiller had been arrested in Alaska, Idaho, Washington, Oregon and California and, beginning in 1972, convicted multiple times for child molesting.

The police became aware of Mr. Schwartzmiller on May 22, when a 12-year-old boy, accompanied by his parents, told the authorities he had been molested by the man. Mr. Schwartzmiller had already fled San Jose, the police said, but had telephoned the boy and told him to obtain the notebooks and pornographic pictures and destroy them.

All I'm going to say is: I'm glad I hadn't eaten breakfast by the time I read this!

I'm trying to figure out how the number could be so large.

I have to wonder if a great deal of them aren't just acts he's fantasized about. We'll have to see how many victims actually come forward.

Along their trend....

Even .5% is 180 kids....
Even .1% is 36 kids....

All I'm going to say is: I'm glad I hadn't eaten breakfast by the time I read this!

Well, aren’t you lucky.

Anyway, this Mr. Schwartzmiller should be executed. He is disgusting, not deserving of any sympathy. Usually I am against the death penalty, but this kind of thing infuriates me. Simply put, he doesn’t deserve to be among us.

Even .5% is 180 kids....
Even .1% is 36 kids....

Even just one is nauseatingly despicable.

Well, aren’t you lucky.

Anyway, this Mr. Schwartzmiller should be executed. He is disgusting, not deserving of any sympathy. Usually I am against the death penalty, but this kind of thing infuriates me. Simply put, he doesn’t deserve to be among us.

How quickly feeble integrity of principle is undermined by weak sentiment.

I have to wonder if a great deal of them aren't just acts he's fantasized about. We'll have to see how many victims actually come forward.

Along their trend....

Even .5% is 180 kids....
Even .1% is 36 kids....

I'm wondering why you complained about this thread in Moderation. What, specifically, is wrong with it?

I'm wondering why you complained about this thread in Moderation. What, specifically, is wrong with it?

Neo Philopolis posted a rather disturbing image. Cog modbombed it, but... not in time to spare my virgin eyes...

Neo Philopolis posted a rather disturbing image. Cog modbombed it, but... not in time to spare my virgin eyes...
I've seen some pretty disturbing porn...but that has to be one of the few images that not only makes me want to give up sex for a while...but also give up masturbation for a while. F'n GROSS. *ugh*

Neo Philopolis posted a rather disturbing image. Cog modbombed it, but... not in time to spare my virgin eyes...

Good thing I missed it.

36000? Somehow, I doubt that is possible...unless they are counting multiple molestations in each incident. Still, that would be very hard to do....either way, it's disgusting X.X

The crimes themselves are enough. I dont know why so many need to document them.

The punishments need to be swifter and more severe-and more public. Maybe it will cause some to think again before they victimize someone else.
The ones that are caught, prosecuted and convicted need much harsher punishment.
If there is no death penalty for it, they really need to have all of their exterior plumbing removed. Any that are released should have the satellite transponders implanted in them, as well as a collar or bracelet.

I've seen some pretty disturbing porn...but that has to be one of the few images that not only makes me want to give up sex for a while...but also give up masturbation for a while. F'n GROSS. *ugh*


There is some really sick shit out there. Makes you wonder when you're out and about how many "actors" or people who like this shit you come in contact with.

Apparently, the researcher Kinsey found a man named "Rex King" who had a similar rampant pedophilia - and who also documented his acts extensively.

Not 36,000, but definitely a large number of children in the case of Rex King.

I do not believe for a minute that there are only one or two people like this. I believe there are many.

I do not believe for a minute that there are only one or two people like this. I believe there are many.


Sadly, I'm willing to believe for every one we document there are a dozen that arent known.
And thats in the US. Imagine what its like in the areas devastated by last years tsunami? I'm hearing that so many children, presumed dead, are being used as sex slaves. There is no record of their existance, so they are handled in any way their controllers see fit.

Sadly, I'm willing to believe for every one we document there are a dozen that arent known.
And thats in the US. Imagine what its like in the areas devastated by last years tsunami? I'm hearing that so many children, presumed dead, are being used as sex slaves. There is no record of their existance, so they are handled in any way their controllers see fit.

:( This kind of stuff, it just makes me feel so helpless. I wish I could do something about it, but then I realize I really can’t. Just depressing. :(

:( This kind of stuff, it just makes me feel so helpless. I wish I could do something about it, but then I realize I really can’t. Just depressing. :(
Help protect and educate your children.

Join a local movement to help with the eradication...

We should pool our money, and start a one plane airline.

We then run a fake tour service to Thailand, and lure the pedos into paying for a two-week vacation.

Once on the plane, we throw them out of the plane at 36,000 feet over the Pacific.

I'm wondering why you complained about this thread in Moderation. What, specifically, is wrong with it?

Yeah, New Philopolis posted some pretty vile pornography. It was nothing against the topic of the thread. Sorry for any confusion.

Help protect and educate your children.

Join a local movement to help with the eradication...

I was referring to the Asian children affected by the Tsunami. Besides giving money (which I have done) there is really nothing that the average person can do.

Yeah, New Philopolis posted some pretty vile pornography. It was nothing against the topic of the thread. Sorry for any confusion.

Well, I'm glad I missed it. I went to a short meeting and came back.

I was referring to the Asian children affected by the Tsunami. Besides giving money (which I have done) there is really nothing that the average person can do.
Oh sorry - I mis-interrepted you.

Is that really happening in the tisumi affected regions, I havn't heard anything about it. If it is then it's vile and dispicable.

This man should be locked up for life.

There are "tours" set up for pedophiles to go to places like Thailand (this has been going on for years) from airports in Europe.

The UK is extremely aggressive about monitoring who among its citizens go on these tours. Germany is much less aggressive, and other European nations don't monitor it at all.

A lot of Americans apparently take a trip to Europe, and then connect with these tours. The US doesn't monitor this much either.

It's become an institution.

Anyone remember Gary Glitter?

There are "tours" set up for pedophiles to go to places like Thailand (this has been going on for years) from airports in Europe.

The UK is extremely aggressive about monitoring who among its citizens go on these tours. Germany is much less aggressive, and other European nations don't monitor it at all.

A lot of Americans apparently take a trip to Europe, and then connect with these tours. The US doesn't monitor this much either.

It's become an institution.

Anyone remember Gary Glitter?
No, I've never heard of these things. Do they really happen?

No, I've never heard of these things. Do they really happen?

That's how the UK busted Gary Glitter.

i can't balive this stuff is happening and I've never heard of it. Is there no campagn? Especcially about the tisumi thing. gary Glitter was before my time.

Fantasising about it is one thing, actualy performing it is a henious crime, these, pardon my French, assholes should be lined up and shot, many lives are ruined because of these scumbags.

Speaking of which, who's Gary Glitter? I don't remember him.

Sex Slavery is Big Business in Europe. (http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/sex_slavery_big_business_in_europe.htm)


Prostitution in Bosnia sprang up to serve the United Nations troops and international aid workers who flooded into the country at the end of the war in former Yugoslavia. Malarek slams home the irony of these supposed emissaries of civilization feeding a barbaric industry with descriptions of 60-year-old U.S. military officers showing up at social events with their 14-year-old sex slaves. UN police demand "freebies" in return for curtailing raids on brothels packed with UN soldiers. Malarek documents how attempts to clean up the Bosnian cesspool have been blocked by UN brass and the U.S. private security firm contracted to stock the UN police. He discovers similar conditions on a visit to Kosovo.

Anyone else feel like vomiting?

And how silly is it that this comes out just after the Michael Jackson trials ended?

We should pool our money, and start a one plane airline.

We then run a fake tour service to Thailand, and lure the pedos into paying for a two-week vacation.

Once on the plane, we throw them out of the plane at 36,000 feet over the Pacific.

I agree-one at a time, wired to the previous pedo's privates. Just to make sure they enjoy their ride down to the sea.

No, I've never heard of these things. Do they really happen?


I've heard of these crimes numerous times. Why it isnt more widespread, front page news, I dont know.
I guess life is much cheaper there, so no one cares.


There was another story re-surfaced just a few days ago-I want to say the BBC reported it- a story involving African children being used in ritual or cult-type sacrafices-but not in Africa- IN ENGLAND !
Since its hard to believe, some people pass the point of morbid curiosity and move on.
It cant be true,right?

Speaking of which, who's Gary Glitter? I don't remember him.

Rock and Roll Part II (Hey!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is a fact that child molesters and predators can't be rehabilitated. Once caught, they should never be allowed out of prison ever again. They will continue to re-offend. As it was said once "What gets you off, gets you off."

A molester many times will admit that he can't stop. These men cannot be allowed back into society to reoffend.

I'm beginning to wonder how someone like this can continue to breathe air. How parents somehow trust these people. How our system can continue to be ineffective at identifying, prosecuting, and executing these people.


The guy looks like the evil Emperor from Star Wars so magnify that thought by 10,000.

That really is truly sickening. I just don't understand how & why some people can do that sort of thing.

Canada has laws that allows us to prosecute Canadian sex tourists. A Vancouver man recently had the rather dubious honour of being the first person convicted under the new law. It is my hope that he is not the last. Canada also has internet cops who go after online pedophiles. We've had several high profile rings busted, some of which were done in partnership with the UK.

Many of you guys seem to feel that sex tourism is a bad thing; perhaps you should consider lobbying for a bill similar to Canada's in that regard.

As for cyber-pedophiles, doesn't the FBI have agents working in that area (in the same way that the UK and Canada does)?

Although it doesn't happen as much with the ACLU and other such groups around today there's always a chance of post-trial "sentencing" for him. Kinda like what happened with Damier. The guards just 'happen' to be in another room, the person in question then just 'happens' to slip. Repeatedly, against a wall, even accidentally shanking themselves a few dozen times.

You ever hear of Rick Roberts bounty he placed on NAMBLA members? (link) (http://www.760kfmb.com/personalities/rick_roberts/archives/2005/02/nambla/index.php)

Just to echo Equus - the UK law was changed a few years ago to allow prosecution for acts of paedophilia commited abroad, so when you come home from your little paedophile holiday you can (and will) be arrested.

Referring back to the original post, talking in terms of 1% being real would be 360: 36,000 would mean one a day, every day, for almost 100 years. That number cannot be accurate.

As for cyber-pedophiles, doesn't the FBI have agents working in that area (in the same way that the UK and Canada does)?

Yes. The only reason I know is because a few months ago they busted an Arab guy attempting to solicit what he thought was an extremely underage girl. Anyway, the FBI set up a fake meeting with the pervert and, of course, arrested him at the place of the meeting. Turned out that he had diplomatic immunity, though, so he wasn’t prosecuted, just deported. We can only hope that he isn’t doing the same thing in his home country. Small chance that he isn’t, though. :(

I'm trying to figure out how the number could be so large.
The average pedophile molests more than thirty kids before the first time he is caught.

Yeah, but for a guy his age to have got to that number would require two or three a day every day of his adult life.

Yeah, but for a guy his age to have got to that number would require two or three a day every day of his adult life.
But he may have molested a number of the kids multiple times, or could be describing each act with the child, not each different child. If i remember correctly, the police have not broken his code.

Indeed, I was just doing a sum like the "if 10%..." to indicate that we're talking about an absolutely staggering number.

It is a fact that child molesters and predators can't be rehabilitated.

prove it to me.

i would also like to point out that those of you consumed with a burning desire to torture and kill pedophiles are just as sick and evil as the molestors themselves.

i would also like to point out that those of you consumed with a burning desire to torture and kill pedophiles are just as sick and evil as the molestors themselves.

Maybe not, but I think they're letting their emotions get the worst of them.
But statistics show that rehabilitation of sex offenders is frequently ineffective. The recidivism rate is abyssmally high, even when compared to other serious crime.

I understand the strength of feeling on this thread, I really do. Your first thought when confronted with the fact that someone has abused a child in this way really is that violence should be done. But this is why we have courts and juries and sentencing, not vigilantes.

I abhor these crimes as much as the next person, perhaps more so. But these things must be taken through the legal system, and the perpetrators (usually, not in all cases) must be given the chance to be rehabilitated.

Blessings
Cyber

prove it to me.

It has been proven over and over again, different rehab methods, diffferent parole support programmes. Every country has tried different ways of rehabbing these people.

Best solution, lock em up and throw away they key. Let them rot in a single cell with a dunny, and food given to them once a day. No visitors, books, or ability to go outside.

Oh, and leave a piece of rope in the cell so if they want to hang themselves, they're more than welcome to do so.

The police said records show that Mr. Schwartzmiller had been arrested in Alaska, Idaho, Washington, Oregon and California and, beginning in 1972, convicted multiple times for child molesting.


And they still let him on the streets... The most painful death imaginable would be too good for this monster.


How quickly feeble integrity of principle is undermined by weak sentiment.

How quickly NS's resident pervert stands up to support "his" pedophile ilk.

I understand the strength of feeling on this thread, I really do. Your first thought when confronted with the fact that someone has abused a child in this way really is that violence should be done. But this is why we have courts and juries and sentencing, not vigilantes.

I abhor these crimes as much as the next person, perhaps more so. But these things must be taken through the legal system, and the perpetrators (usually, not in all cases) must be given the chance to be rehabilitated.

Blessings
Cyber
I hate to say it but I have to agree with you. Thats why I said that they shouldn't be killed, I don't agree with the death penilty in any way. Lock them up in a room with no light, no books, no bed, nothing, yes, feed them once a day yes. But only after you've tried them and proved them guilty. rember, innoccent until proven guilty.

And they still let him on the streets... The most painful death imaginable would be too good for this monster.




How quickly NS's resident pervert stands up to support "his" pedophile ilk.

"This Monster" still has to be convicted and sentenced in accordance with the law.
You don't torture a Rabid Dog to death. You put it down as cleanly and humanely as possible.

Child molesters are like rabid animals-mostly incurable, too dangerous to be allowed to roam free, and too costly to keep contained.

convict, sentence, execute. I recommend beheading-so that there is no question about the nature of the removal.

"This Monster" still has to be convicted and sentenced in accordance with the law.
You don't torture a Rabid Dog to death. You put it down as cleanly and humanely as possible.

Child molesters are like rabid animals-mostly incurable, too dangerous to be allowed to roam free, and too costly to keep contained.

convict, sentence, execute. I recommend beheading-so that there is no question about the nature of the removal.
No one deserves to die, not even a murderer or a rapist, what happens if it turns out he didn't do it? Death is kinda final.

I hate to say it but I have to agree with you. Thats why I said that they shouldn't be killed, I don't agree with the death penilty in any way. Lock them up in a room with no light, no books, no bed, nothing, yes, feed them once a day yes. But only after you've tried them and proved them guilty. rember, innoccent until proven guilty.

Again, understand where you are coming from. And I don't believe in the death sentence either. But I have always been of the opinion that your loss of liberty is your punishment and not how you are treated in prison. Plus, it's harder work for the guards if prisoners are bored and frustrated.

Blessings
Lucrece

How will it give more work to the prisoners..........oh.......yuck :headbang:

No one deserves to die, not even a murderer or a rapist, what happens if it turns out he didn't do it? Death is kinda final.
That's why you have rules of evidence, and why a death-penalty convict has so many appeals available (including automatic appeals that are instigated without requireing his consent...)
Death is final, and there's always the remote possibility of a conviction being incorrect. This is what makes the Death Penalty so harsh. It is the ultimate that Society can do to punish a felon because once it is done, it can not be un-done.
Evidence in capital crimes must be overwhelming, the Jury must NOT have any doubts remaining. The state gets one shot to convict-they can't reopen the case with new evidence...or without. the Appeals judge can't add to a sentence either.

The finality of Death is why the Death penalty exists-criminals know that if they lose their appeals, (and make no mistake, most may claim innocence, but they did what they did...) their life is forfiet, no last-minute saves, no respawn point, it's game over.

In a way, the presence of that responsibility, in the hands of most jurors, can be enough to save an innocent man who's being railroaded... because the penalty is so harsh, and the finality of it i so much more real than a prison sentence, that most reasonable jurors will look for any reason they can find not to convict a capital suspect. This serves to protect the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" far better than words that can be weaseled around by slick operators.

On a practical note, the recidivism rate of persons executed for their crimes is zero from the date of execution.

i would also like to point out that those of you consumed with a burning desire to torture and kill pedophiles are just as sick and evil as the molestors themselves.


Not!

I hate to say it but I have to agree with you. Thats why I said that they shouldn't be killed, I don't agree with the death penilty in any way. Lock them up in a room with no light, no books, no bed, nothing, yes, feed them once a day yes. But only after you've tried them and proved them guilty. rember, innoccent until proven guilty.



Compared to that, death is the easy way out. IMO.

Unless it's a slow painful death.

But he may have molested a number of the kids multiple times, or could be describing each act with the child, not each different child. If i remember correctly, the police have not broken his code.


Maybe they need to break something else first, then the code will be easier.

Maybe not, but I think they're letting their emotions get the worst of them.
But statistics show that rehabilitation of sex offenders is frequently ineffective. The recidivism rate is abyssmally high, even when compared to other serious crime.


Some are emotional, yes. Humans confronted with unspeakable crimes tend to have emotions. There is nothing wrong with this.

Years of study and testimony from the offenders themselves have proven "rehabilitation" efforts are a waste of time.
How many victims need to pay the price at the hands of released convicts that have done their time?

Do you try to rehabilitate cancer? Do you try to reason and discuss the situation with a cockroach infestation in your home?

For the cases where the criminal has been convicted, beyond any doubt-voluntary confession-which is often the case-DNA evidence,etc... No question they commited the crime-
Execute them swiftly and cleanly. Move on to the next case.

How quickly feeble integrity of principle is undermined by weak sentiment.
How quickly NS's resident pervert stands up to support "his" pedophile ilk.

I don't think this is fair. OK, Fass shouldn't have gloated, but I think, Drakedia, that calling him a "resident pervert" and associating him with pedophiles is an over-the-top response. Especially in this thread.

I don't know the history between you, if any, so for all I know this may be some sort of weird blokey running joke. Or you may have been really hurt by his comment, or yours may be out of character for you.

But when I read your post, without any of the visual clues that would tell me how you meant it, I found myself tempted to agree with Fass; even though, actually, I'm wholly with Cyberpolis.

The topic seems to be turning into another death penalty debate, so that's it for me.

And they still let him on the streets... The most painful death imaginable would be too good for this monster.
How quickly NS's resident pervert stands up to support "his" pedophile ilk.

I believe that's in the neighborhood of a flame.
I don't believe Fass was taking up for pedophiles.
Being gay does not make one a pedophile.
They are not of his 'ilk.'


And I am the NS resident pervert.

How quickly NS's resident pervert stands up to support "his" pedophile ilk.
I don't give a damn what your opinion on gays may be, that comment was totally uncalled for. As a personal attack, it's against site rules. As a general statement, it's simply unacceptable.

I'm not going to give you an official warning for being making a grossly unacceptable generalization, but I'm going to give you some unofficial advice. Apologize to Fass. You were WAY out of line.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

How quickly NS's resident pervert stands up to support "his" pedophile ilk.
Did you just call Fass a peadophile?

i still haven't gotten any concrete evidence, you know. how about some actual statistics?

and another thing, execution isn't necessarily cheaper, as all of the appeals and whatnot can get rather pricey for the state.

I believe that's in the neighborhood of a flame.

Everything is a flame...


And I am the NS resident pervert.

Thats nice.


You were WAY out of line.

Agreed. Although to be fair the "person" who this thread is about is gay.

"A convicted child molester jailed in California may have sexually assaulted hundreds of young boys in the United States, Brazil and Mexico"

seems a tad homo to me...

Anyway sorry Fass.

It has been proven over and over again, different rehab methods, diffferent parole support programmes. Every country has tried different ways of rehabbing these people.



Actually, that is a blatant lie. If what you say were true, then the recidivism rate among sex offenders would be nearly 100%. This is not the case. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of released sex offenders will never reoffend. Your statement is proof of the old addage that the best lie is the big lie, or that if you repeat a lie enough times people will believe it. Recidivism rates among sex offenders are actually lower than that of the general prison population. They are MUCH lower than the recidivism rates for some of the more serious crimes like robbery, assault, and drug dealing. Even if we pretended that they were higher than they really are, the number would not even come close to the 100% rate required to make your statement about the impossibility of rehabilitation correct.