NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello. I have a few questions about faith and the Christian system.

I'd like to start off by saying a young person, and I'm not very religious, but I do consider myself to be Chirstian.

My questions are related to the topics of self-pleasure and pornographic images. If you feel that you could help, please leave a post. Although flaming is not encouraged, it is your right to do so, if you want to do so.

What exactly is your question?

Although flaming is not encouraged, it is your right to do so, if you want to do so.
Everyone also has a right to get banned :D

This is the wrong forum for such questions. You should consider visiting the forums on beliefnet instead. http://www.beliefnet.org

What exactly is your question?

Well, just exactly where I'd be after my death, and how doing things now could effect that fate. Like, they tell us that Jesus saves, but how far can you stray off the path before you cannot be saved?

This is the wrong forum for such questions. You should consider visiting the forums on beliefnet instead. http://www.beliefnet.org

Or we can lend a hand. We may not have theological training but we're pretty good.

Or you can come to the newly created NSChristians forums.

http://nschristians.armageddonproject.com/

Well, just exactly where I'd be after my death, and how doing things now could effect that fate. Like, they tell us that Jesus saves, but how far can you stray off the path before you cannot be saved?

There is no 'limit' as I understand it. However I suspect Jesus will be a lot more demanding of your repentance if you have been particularly bad.

So, it's not set at all, it's kind of up to his Judgement? And so, you can only do your best, right? That's what I was thinking, but I wanted to see if there was something I was perhaps missing.

From a Biblical perspective: How "far" you can "stray off the path" isn't the issue. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. If you are have sinned, you are guilty. Period.

Unless your heart is hardened, you can be saved. Only people who die without being saved will face eternal damnation. So, if you haven't been saved and your heart has not been hardened, then you either need to get serious as soon as possible about recognizing that Christ's death was the only acceptable sacrifice for sin, repenting of your sin, and asking God to forgive you of your sin. Otherwise, you risk dying without being saved.

Well, just exactly where I'd be after my death, and how doing things now could effect that fate. Like, they tell us that Jesus saves, but how far can you stray off the path before you cannot be saved?

It is worse to sin thinking you can always repent later. It is basically brushing off Salvation and belittering it.

However, you can stray far and come back as you as you come back and be "saved"

Now do you mean Catholic Christian, Protestant Christian, Restoration Christian (LDS Church), or what?
Catholics as you know have Pope as guide.

Protestants have no real leader and are so many various types.

LDS/Restoration Christians currently are nicknamed "Mormons". They are the Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints. Restoring the church that Jesus created while on Earth. They have a Prophet that leads churfch and authory with power of Preisthood's both Aaronic and Melchezdiak.

Anyway, back to your question:
The only time when you won't have a chance are:
1) Suicide, you can't get past lowest Kingdom Telestrial. It is a Sin that can't be repented because dead (Repenting must occur while alive not dead).

2) Gaining Perfect Knowledge and than Blasphemying the Holy Ghost: Judas is an example of a man that knew with 100% Clarity what he was doing but did it anyway. This is sadly unforgiveable. He is cast down into Outer Darkness
You have no worries because you have not much Knowledge of the Gospel or God's plans thereof.

3) Debateable but Cold Blooded murder is also a possible way to not be forgiven. Many times it comes up in Scriptures as such. So I assume same punishment as Suicide (Kingdom wise).

Back to your fate:
First have you repented?
Repenting means more than saying sorry. It means stop participating in the action that you are apologizing for.
It might be a hard thing to do at first, but it will be ;like a burden lifted from your shoulders.

If yes: you've repented and stopped.

Than how good a person are you. Stopping doing bad things doesn't make one clean. You need to have Charity (love/being helpful), Hope, and Faith to be your best.

I'll list the three Kingdoms think Sea Turtle: All three kingdoms even the lowest are Kingdoms of Glory.
1. Highest Kingdom Celestrial: Heavenly Father resides
2. Terestrial
3. Telestrial

Those in Telestrial will be in Spirit Prison for a time deemed neccessary by God (his punishment are eternal meaning as long as he says basically). After that you released to the kingdom.

After that is the place known as Outer Darkness. A Kingdom without Glory.

How could I forget, but before you even reach that you have the place Paradise or whatever other place is called.

You won't even reach your kingdom till the Second Coming. Everyone in this dipentation has yet to be assigned there Kingdom. Waiting in Comfort ot uncomfort as is there fate of Paradise or non-paradise.

You say you consider yourself Christian but not very religious. Being a non religous Christian is probably the best way to go. That is, to try to use the advice that Jesus gave without believing in all the supernatural aspects of the bible. The supernatural being God, magic and the afterlife. I don't think Jesus mentioned self-pleasure or pornography, so you'll have to decide for yourself about them.

From a Biblical perspective: How "far" you can "stray off the path" isn't the issue. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. If you are have sinned, you are guilty. Period.

Unless your heart is hardened, you can be saved. Only people who die without being saved will face eternal damnation. So, if you haven't been saved and your heart has not been hardened, then you either need to get serious as soon as possible about recognizing that Christ's death was the only acceptable sacrifice for sin, repenting of your sin, and asking God to forgive you of your sin. Otherwise, you risk dying without being saved.

Name that Verse!

Romans 3:23

Don't believe anything said in here if it is contrary to the teachings of the Bible.

Don't study creeds, don't study tenets of denominations, don't do nothin' but study the Bible....you don't learn truth by studying what is false. Knowing the truth helps you recognize what is false.

If someone tells you blah blah blah from that person's church's teachings and it doesn't square with the Bible, quickly cast it out and as far from from you as you can

Convert to atheism lol we have no problem as long as you dont harm others :fluffle: :p

What BastardSword posted was mostly BS. It's the dogma of one church. The first bit was on though.

On the matter of self-pleasuring and pornography, the opinion of theologians is rather divided. On one hand, "The sin of Onan" (in Genesis 38: 7-10) probably isn't what it's commonly conceived to be. Onan was killed not for "spilling his seed opon the ground", but for ppurposely failing to impregnate his brother's wife in doing so. While that puts you on fairly safe ground on the self-pleasuring front, it does raise a question mark towards contraception.

As for pornography, Jesus is reputed to have said that whoever looks at a woman with lustful thoughts commits adultery with her in his heart. While that seems pretty directly a case of repentance-needed, do bear in mind: if you intend to really repent for something, that kind of implies that you'll do your utmost not to do it again later...

(Incidentally, for the record, I'm not a Christian, but I am a Theologian)

As for pornography, Jesus is reputed to have said that whoever looks at a woman with lustful thoughts commits adultery with her in his heart.

1. This could be taken to mean that all lust towards women is wrong. (Could this be an arguement in favour of male homosexuality?)

2. Is commiting adultery in the heart a bad thing?

3. Is it okay to look at men with lustful thoughts?

4. If you aren't married is it okay to look at a woman with lustfull thoughts? What about if that woman is married?

Unless Jesus expanded on this statement, it doesn't seem very clear or helpful. It could actually end up making people feel bad about lust, so I would reccommend not paying attention to it.

I mean, I have some kind, wise, friends; but I don't pay attention to everything they say.

1. This could be taken to mean that all lust towards women is wrong. (Could this be an arguement in favour of male homosexuality?)

2. Is commiting adultery in the heart a bad thing?

3. Is it okay to look at men with lustful thoughts?

4. If you aren't married is it okay to look at a woman with lustfull thoughts? What about if that woman is married?

Unless Jesus expanded on this statement, it doesn't seem very clear or helpful. It could actually end up making people feel bad about lust, so I would reccommend not paying attention to it.

1) yes, because lust in itslef is a sin (no it isn't, because you aren't supposed to lust, period).

2) yes, because it's still adultery (sorry I don't really know how to expand on this, except maybe what's in the heart shows the true intentions of the person).

3) no, see number 1.

4) no, because lust is still a sin, I don't really know if the other woman being married matters.

Convert to atheism lol we have no problem as long as you dont harm others :fluffle: :p

Why stop there convert to Satanism, then you can harm anyone you want. lol.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

Why stop there convert to Satanism, then you can harm anyone you want. lol.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~
But then they have to deal with the law

But then they have to deal with the law

Only if you get caught. lol.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

Only if you get caught. lol.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~
Yeah I suppose lol

Actually, it is my belief that, for all you guys out there, lust would be acceptable after marriage if directed towards your spouse.

Hebrews 13:4 (New American Standard)

4(A)Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; (B)for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.



Also, Matthew 5:27-28


27"(C)You have heard that it was said, '(D)YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';

28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman (E)with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.



Refers to lust as adultery of the heart. If you're married to the person, the thoughts would not be adulterous.

1) yes, because lust in itslef is a sin

"Waiter, this religion isn't very good."
"Oh, I'm terribly sorry sir. Perhaps you'd prefer something a little less patriachal?"
"Anything that has bass reliefs of people doing it on the temple walls is fine with me."

On the matter of self-pleasuring and pornography, the opinion of theologians is rather divided. On one hand, "The sin of Onan" (in Genesis 38: 7-10) probably isn't what it's commonly conceived to be. Onan was killed not for "spilling his seed opon the ground", but for ppurposely failing to impregnate his brother's wife in doing so. While that puts you on fairly safe ground on the self-pleasuring front, it does raise a question mark towards contraception.
<snip>
Another interpretation of that passage runs like this:
The child that would have come about would have been considered the heir of Onan's brother. Onan deliberately did not impregnate her so as to ensure his brother did not have an heir.
Thus Onan was guilty of either greed (he wanted his brother's inheritance) or disobedience (he disobeyed God's will).
With the above interpretation, it has nothing at all to do with contraception (or self-pleasuring).

Actually, it is my belief that, for all you guys out there, lust would be acceptable after marriage if directed towards your spouse. Maybe some kind of drug to turn it on/off as needed?
Hey, that'd be useful.

Actually, it is my belief that, for all you guys out there, lust would be acceptable after marriage if directed towards your spouse.
Why would anyone get married in the first place if you didn't feel lust?

Why would anyone get married in the first place if you didn't feel lust?I've worked it out. God wants us to get married when we're six. Then as we develop lust we'll have a spouse to feel it towards. (Are women allowed to feel lust towards their husbands, or is it only supposed to work one way?)

Why would anyone get married in the first place if you didn't feel lust? Ever heard of a thing called "love"?

Ever heard of a thing called "love"?

:D

Reminded me of something from Futurerama:

Zoidberg: Is it love when you care for a female for reasons beyond mating?

Fry: No, must be some weird alien emotion.

A statement of our times I tells ya.

Ever heard of a thing called "love"?I love my father, but I don't particulary want to marry him.

Don't believe anything said in here if it is contrary to the teachings of the Bible.

Don't study creeds, don't study tenets of denominations, don't do nothin' but study the Bible....you don't learn truth by studying what is false. Knowing the truth helps you recognize what is false.

If someone tells you blah blah blah from that person's church's teachings and it doesn't square with the Bible, quickly cast it out and as far from from you as you can
Which version of the bible though?

Dude, here's the deal. If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He came to this earth and lived a perfect life as a human, was cruicified, and rose again on the third day all because He loves you, that is what matters. If you believe that in your heart, then you are going to heaven. While being involved in porn and such will not get your salvation taken away from you, it is still wrong. Once you have accepted this free gift of salvation, nothing can take it away. Works did not earn you your salvation, nor will they help you keep it or lose it. But, if you are a Christian, then you are called to spread the message of the Gospel. You are called to try and live a holy life. Being involved in porn is not part of living a holy life. It won't cause you to lose your salvation, but it does not send an image to non-Christians that you are following what you believe.

Dude, here's the deal. If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He came to this earth and lived a perfect life as a human, was cruicified, and rose again on the third day all because He loves you, that is what matters. If you believe that in your heart, then you are going to heaven. While being involved in porn and such will not get your salvation taken away from you, it is still wrong. Once you have accepted this free gift of salvation, nothing can take it away. Works did not earn you your salvation, nor will they help you keep it or lose it. But, if you are a Christian, then you are called to spread the message of the Gospel. You are called to try and live a holy life. Being involved in porn is not part of living a holy life. It won't cause you to lose your salvation, but it does not send an image to non-Christians that you are following what you believe.

Agreed. :)

I love my father, but I don't particulary want to marry him. Different kind of love.

Which version of the bible though?


He's asking the quesiton from a Christian's perspective. So, the "Bible" to which I refer includes the New Testament.

By referring to the truth of the Bible versus the doctrines, creeds, tenets, dogma of a denomination or a religion that does not recognize the fundamental Biblical doctrine of Christ and Christ alone for the remission of sin, I'm not talking about translations of the Bible (the King James, New King James, New International, Revised Standard, etc.).

The original King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying. Essentially, it wa the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza in 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus (@1520), which was based on a few medieval manuscripts.

We now have access to many more ancient manuscripts of the New Testament and are far better equipped to recover the original wording of the Greek text from manuscripts written close to the date the original books were written.

Good answer, very good and the kind I was hoping to elicit. I think it is important to be specific about which version/edition of the Bible one means when citing it as it can affect interpretation drastically. Thanks.

Different kind of love.Is this different kind of love allowed to have an element of lust in it?

You gotta remember back in JC's day arranged marriages were all the go, so maybe you could sort of try to get away with not feeling any lust towards anyone but your wife/husband, but now a days it would seem pretty silly to marry someone you don't feel any lust towards, so I think you can't take what Jesus said too seriously.