NationStates Jolt Archive

ira does stand for
Irish Republican Army

This is hardly news to me.

also just checking but did they ever blow themselves up

By which you mean did they intentionally carry out suicide bombings? No, although I seem to recall that they accidentally blew themselves up once or twice.

yet does it nt have its own government or Assembly

nothern ireland is percieved by many people as territory that should be part of southern ireland which is occupied by britain.


a question to you are you catholic or protestant (orange)

see trying to change somones religion
i am quite happy with what i have got and dont plan on changing.

I wouldn't exactly call that trying. I merely suggested that if you don't believe your own holy text you might want to consider looking at some other religions. If you're happy where you are then there is, of course, no need to change.

I spent a lot of time as an agnostic researching various religions before deciding on Islam.

I wouldn't exactly call that trying. I merely suggested that if you don't believe your own holy text you might want to consider looking at some other religions. If you're happy where you are then there is, of course, no need to change.

I spent a lot of time as an agnostic researching various religions before deciding on Islam.

thats nice

on english news today their was an iman who lives in england who refused to condemn the london terrorist attacks

yet does it nt have its own government or Assembly

It has the Legislative Assembly, but this is currently suspended and the province is under direct rule from Westminster.


a question to you are you catholic or protestant (orange)

And the relevance of what foot I kick the ball with is what, exactly? Does it invalidate what I say if I opt for the wrong one?

thats nice

on english news today their was an iman who lives in england who refused to condemn the london terrorist attacks

Thats not nice. Did you have a question?

i am catholic i have know irish blood or family and i live in england


if protestant you would probably side with england
and vice versa

but

the provisional assembly is planned to become an assembly like the scotish and welsh parliments
that is if it starts again

i am catholic i have know irish blood or family and i live in england


if protestant you would probably side with england
and vice versa

but

the provisional assembly is planned to become an assembly like the scotish and welsh parliments
that is if it starts again

A question of my own: why is your grammar so poor?

Thats not nice. Did you have a question?

yes you would nt see the pope say terroism is ok would you

A question of my own: why is your grammar so poor?

i will speak the language of my country however i like
and an american muslim should nt judge me on it because i do nt judge them.
(as islam is at war with america maybe you should stop using its benifits and start leaving and going back to the poor arab world)

yes you would nt see the pope say terroism is ok would you

An imam speaks for himself and the handful of people he knows personally. The pope speaks for all of Catholicism.

Your point is flawed, your tact is lacking, and I don't appreciate the poorly veiled insult.

An imam speaks for himself and the handful of people he knows personally. The pope speaks for all of Catholicism.

Your point is flawed, your tact is lacking, and I don't appreciate the poorly veiled insult.


ok then you would nt see a catholic priest say it

(as islam is at war with america maybe you should stop using its benifits and start leaving and going back to the poor arab world)
*giggles*
You're funny.

Islam is at war with America? Wrong, a select subset of extremist Muslims are at war with America. This would be like saying since some people in the Christian Identity movement kill blacks and Jews, all Christians are at war with blacks and Jews, which is quite false.

*giggles*
You're funny.

Islam is at war with America? Wrong, a select subset of extremist Muslims are at war with America. This would be like saying since some people in the Christian Identity movement kill blacks and Jews, all Christians are at war with blacks and Jews, which is quite false.


*giggles*
go fuck ureself
you dumb arab please go blow ureself up.
because only a muslim would do that for
allah (the devil)
then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave
also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor

also if you want i will send you a link to an article on the bbc saying that across nothern africa christians are being killed because of their refusal to convert to islam

*giggles*
go **** ureself
you dumb arab please go blow ureself up.
because only a muslim would do that for
allah (the devil)
then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave
also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor

Now that you've dropped any pretext of courtesy, I bid you good day.

A question of my own: why is your grammar so poor?

yet saying this is polite

*giggles*
go fuck ureself
you dumb arab please go blow ureself up.
because only a muslim would do that for
allah (the devil)
then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave
also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor
Thank you master, may I please have another?
:)

Oh, and it's funny that you'd tell me to blow myself up for Allah when I'm not even a Muslim.

oh ok then dont do that
if ure not muslim
then you shouldnt be offened


what i have found when talking to members of the islamic faith
they find it impossible to accept that they may actually have done somthing wrong

A question of my own: why is your grammar so poor?

yet saying this is polite

Perhaps it is not very polite to ask, but grammar exists to make it easier to communicate. I find it annoying and impolite on your part when I have to take extra time to decipher what you are trying to say because you can't or won't use basic grammar. Even disregarding this, you have far outclassed anyone else in this topic when it comes to impoliteness in general so your insinuation is empty of validity.

yes you would nt see the pope say terroism is ok would you

An Imam is not vested with the same authority as the Pope though, is he? If we look back at the IRA for parallels we can see examples of Catholic priests not only not condemning terrorism, but actually being actively involved in it.

Would it be fair to condemn Roman Catholicism on their basis alone?

then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave

Hey ... Jesus was born in a cave. How about that.

However, it's clear you're a flaming troll and the mods shall deal with you accordingly.

Perhaps it is not very polite to ask, but grammar exists to make it easier to communicate. I find it annoying and impolite on your part when I have to take extra time to decipher what you are trying to say because you can't or won't use basic grammar. Even disregarding this, you have far outclassed anyone else in this topic when it comes to impoliteness in general so your insinuation is empty of validity.



my validity is that i was on a london train which had a bomb on it and i am slightly pissed off with the muslim faith
which i believe is degraiding to women which comtinually feels it is being picked on.
and is one of the only regligions where in certain cases blowing ureself up to kill others is acceptable

they find it impossible to accept that they may actually have done somthing wrong

I've certainly never blown anything or anyone up. I've also never gone into someone else's thread and started spewing foul mouthed hatred.

Forum terrorist.

Hey ... Jesus was born in a cave. How about that.

However, it's clear you're a flaming troll and the mods shall deal with you accordingly.

i believe that jesus was actually born in a stable because there was no room at the inn

also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor


Muslims are poor? Open season on sweeping generalisations today, is it?

Saudia Arabia (predominantly Muslim) has a population of about 15 million, and 8 billionaires, whilst the UK (predominantly Christian) has a population of about 60 million and just 12 billionaires...

*giggles*
go fuck ureself
you dumb arab please go blow ureself up.
because only a muslim would do that for
allah (the devil)
then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave
also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor

You are very ignorant and I suggest you stop before people start to flame you. If you don't know anything about another religion, I suggest you don't make fun of it and assume. Those people that die for allah and blow themselves up are extremeists, not everyone is like that. People like you disgust me, you discriminate and it's sick, didn't you learn anything growing up? Personally I'm not Muslim but I don't like people who discriminate against other religions or people, it's wrong and doesn't show much character. The least you could do is not say anything at all if that's how you felt about Muslims.

I've certainly never blown anything or anyone up. I've also never gone into someone else's thread and started spewing foul mouthed hatred.

Forum terrorist.


i dont think people can make posts afer they have blown somthing up

my validity is that i was on a london train which had a bomb on it

I call bullshit.


which i believe is degraiding to women which comtinually feels it is being picked on.
and is one of the only regligions where in certain cases blowing ureself up to kill others is acceptable

Islam does not degrade women. There is no case where blowing up yourself to kill others is acceptable. Suicide is a sin and so is murder. Period.

You ....The least you could do is not say anything at all if that's how you felt about Muslims.

I would strongly suggest that you edit out the flaming parts of your own post: this guy is very likely a reincarnation of a well-known troll (Commando2/Commando3/etc...) and will be deleted by the Mods when they find him. There is no point getting yourself deleted as well for flaming a troll.

Let him dig his own grave with the bridge of his nose, but there is no need for you to start breaking rules and then having to pay the penalty for doing so.

I have a question, why make a thread like this? If in fact you are muslim, it seems like you are stereotyping yourself or something. I don't know, it just seems odd to me to make a thread such as this one.

This is one of the best and most usefull threads I have seen at this web site . its only odd in that its not another spam / moron thread like " US vs France who would win " ? etc .

i believe that jesus was actually born in a stable because there was no room at the inn

And what, pray tell, do you think they used as stables in 1st century middle eastern countries? Caves.

You should learn more about whom you worship.

http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/israel/4_sacred_caves.html

ok then you would nt see a catholic priest say it

Hint: do a Google search on 'Father James Chesney'.

my validity is that i was on a london train which had a bomb on it and i am slightly pissed off with the muslim faith
which i believe is degraiding to women which comtinually feels it is being picked on.
and is one of the only regligions where in certain cases blowing ureself up to kill others is acceptable

Beliefs are all well and good, but perhaps you should try researching what it is you're developing beliefs of. Part 6 of this intro deals specifically with women.

http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran-intro.htm

... and if you are up to it you could try reading the Surah named for Women, (chapter 4 of the Holy Qur'an), or the Islamic rules of war (2:190), or where freedom of religion is built into Islam (2:256).

http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran.htm

...or you could continue to stew in your hatred and make matters worse.

I call bullshit.


and for that i really do think you should be shot
do you want me to tell you where i got the train from on what line, and at what time?
northern line from totteridge and wetstone to kings cross st takes around 40 minutes i left totteridge at around 7 50
i was their



Islam does not degrade women. There is no case where blowing up yourself to kill others is acceptable. Suicide is a sin and so is murder. Period.
so where do these people get their ideas. the veil and female curcumsision which is carried out in somalia oh and women being stoned for comiting adultery says it is

*giggles*
go fuck ureself
you dumb arab please go blow ureself up.
because only a muslim would do that for
allah (the devil)
then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave
also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor


Your only reason for existence seems to be that you should be used as an example of years of inbreeding . The world would be a better place without you .

so where do these people get their ideas. the veil and female curcumsision which is carried out in somalia oh and women being stoned for comiting adultery says it is

Female circumcision is an African tradition, having nothing to do with Islam. The veil is descendant from the Jewish faith, and no where in the Qur'an is it stated that women should be stoned.

and for that i really do think you should be shot

Terrorist.

do you want me to tell you where i got the train from on what line, and at what time?northern line from totteridge and wetstone to kings cross st takes around 40 minutes i left totteridge at around 7 50


Everyone who's watched the news knows that. I don't believe you.


so where do these people get their ideas. the veil and female curcumsision which is carried out in somalia oh and women being stoned for comiting adultery says it is

Female circumcision has been carried out in somalia since long before Islam arrived there. That's a national/cultural thing, not a religious thing. It is not in Qur'an.

Same with stoning for commiting adultery. In only one instance is the death penalty given in Qur'an and that's for murder, not for anything else.

Father James Chesney
is dead could you find one that is actually alive because i can find many living islam imams that believe sucicide bombings are ok

female curcumsision which is carried out in somalia

Female circumcision is not part of Islam: it is a cultural tradition in Somalia, rather than a religious one. In fact, the argument has been made that Islamic law guarantees a woman's right to enjoy sexual activity - why else would it allow women to divorce men on the grounds of sexual failure in marriage?

Anytime halo-man,
And 'Noble-Men' without wanting to start up an Islaam vs. Christianity thread, because I really am feeling tired, and i have exams to revise and sit - maybe after that I'll get involved in similar discussions- but, yes, it is true that is our belief, because we believe Jesus was a man, not god, and that when he preached his message of worshipping the 'Father', 'who is in Heaven' then that was Monotheism, and all other elements were added afterwards (BTW, I may not respond to Christians on that point of contention, because it will only distract me from History revision..) Therefore Jesus was upon the religion of 'submission' (which in Arabic produces 'Islam') to the one true God (not himself) and therefore he will naturally return and condemn men who call him God, and have introduced Greco-Roman elements into what was once a pure monothesitic faith..
That good enough for you?

In the Gospels Jesus refers to himself as the son of God, but my personal theory is that he either a) never said that, and it was just added on later to make the religion have greater appeal, or b) in his philosophy, ALL people were children of God, and there was some great theological game of telephone in which someone got the wrong impression.

I don't think Jesus would like the idea of people killing in his name, or trying to forcibly convert others. After all, as a friend of mine said, when Jesus preached that his followers should "turn the other cheek," he was basically saying "don't hit people."

Mohammed definitely wouldn't be happy about people killing in his name either, or about people on either side casting the conflict as a holy war. If only Jesus and Mohammed could appear now and tell everyone to stop being such gits. :rolleyes:

On an unrelated note, you wouldn't happen to be the same commando who became so infamous on the gamefaqs wot board would you?

should i tell you somthing do you now where totteridge is
what london borough?
should i tell you or let you guess
what part of london is it in do you know?
i dont think so should i tell you where i work
what about a home address

On an unrelated note, you wouldn't happen to be the same commando who became so infamous on the gamefaqs wot board would you?


sorry you what

also another barbaric islamic practice
is the removal of the right hand becasue the person had stole somthing

stoneing occurs in most middle eastern counties
for a woman who has comitied adultery
the other half of the relasionship escapes with his life
i thought relasionships were equal

should i tell you somthing do you now where totteridge is
what london borough?
should i tell you or let you guess
what part of london is it in do you know?
i dont think so should i tell you where i work
what about a home address


Simple google searches:

http://www.totteridgeresidents.org/

(gives me all the info I need on Totteridge)

Can also easily research London's railway timetables, though anyone who has watched the news in the last couple of weeks knows exactly when and where the bombs hit, so timetables aren't necessary ... CNN gave all that info.

Can also research what businesses are where and where you could be going if you were on a particular train at a particular time.

If I can do it, so can you. Just drop it. Make your own "Ask a London bombing survivor" thread.

Father James Chesney
is dead could you find one that is actually alive because i can find many living islam imams that believe sucicide bombings are ok

What difference does it make if he is now alive or dead? Are you implying that it was actually okay for him to support terrorism and be actively involved in it because it happened twenty or so years ago?

Simple google searches:

http://www.totteridgeresidents.org/

(gives me all the info I need on Totteridge)

Can also easily research London's railway timetables, though anyone who has watched the news in the last couple of weeks knows exactly when and where the bombs hit, so timetables aren't necessary ... CNN gave all that info.

Can also research what businesses are where and where you could be going if you were on a particular train at a particular time.

If I can do it, so can you. Just drop it. Make your own "Ask a London bombing survivor" thread.


ok greenway is my street
my number
work it out
how about i give you a map to the station aswell

also another barbaric islamic practice
is the removal of the right hand becasue the person had stole somthing


Not an Islamic practice. However, didn't Jesus say, "If thy right hand offends thee, cut it off"?

stoneing occurs in most middle eastern counties
for a woman who has comitied adultery


That doesn't mean it's Muslim custom or sanctioned by Qur'an. The Reverend Jim Jones gave thousands of his followers kool-aid with poison in it during a mass suicide at Guyana. Since Jim Jones was an ordained Christian minister, can I now say that all Christians want to kill their followers or that suicide is condoned and ok in the Bible?

ok greenway is my street
my number
work it out
how about i give you a map to the station aswell

It doesn't matter.

You don't get it. Any information you could possibly give me can be Googled. Hence, I don't believe you. Frankly, I'm not sure why you'd bother unless you just need an excuse to lash out at Muslims.

What difference does it make if he is now alive or dead? Are you implying that it was actually okay for him to support terrorism and be actively involved in it because it happened twenty or so years ago?


no what i am saying is that you will not find a living person who supports terroism and is a priest

catholic priests now condemn all acts of terrorism

sorry you what

also another barbaric islamic practice
is the removal of the right hand becasue the person had stole somthing

stoneing occurs in most middle eastern counties
for a woman who has comitied adultery
the other half of the relasionship escapes with his life
i thought relasionships were equal

Perhaps sometime you'll read through the information in the links I provided. Until then I really have no reason to respond to this sort of thing.

It doesn't matter.

You don't get it. Any information you could possibly give me can be Googled. Hence, I don't believe you. Frankly, I'm not sure why you'd bother unless you just need an excuse to lash out at Muslims.

can i tell you where that picture was taken with the heron
its the middle of totteride land afer the orange tree pub but before the rising sun
at that place their are three ponds
the middle one has that sign

[QUOTE=Keruvalia]Not an Islamic practice. However, didn't Jesus say, "If thy right hand offends thee, cut it off"?


yet christian countries were advanced enough to think of new ways to deal with people who had comited crimes
without cutting somebodies had off.

islam is barbaric

[QUOTE=Keruvalia]Not an Islamic practice. However, didn't Jesus say, "If thy right hand offends thee, cut it off"?


yet christian countries were advanced enough to think of new ways to deal with people who had comited crimes
without cutting somebodies had off.

islam is barbaric

You seem to be forgetting about 1900 years of history.

catholic priests now condemn all acts of terrorism


Even if that were true, the most that it could possibly tell us is that Islam is roughly 25 years behind Christianity...

[QUOTE=Commandos 3]

You seem to be forgetting about 1900 years of history.


ok you have had the same amount of time as us
how come islamic are counrties are nt world superpowers
"allah is on your side isnt he"

yet christian countries were advanced enough to think of new ways to deal with people who had comited crimes
without cutting somebodies had off.

Date of last decapitation by Guillotine in France: September 10th 1977.

yet christian countries were advanced enough to think of new ways to deal with people who had comited crimes
without cutting somebodies had off.

islam is barbaric


Once again ... cutting the hand off of thieves is not Islamic practise. There is nothing in Qur'an that condones it or says it should be.

You clearly have a lot of trouble differentiating between a nations culture and a religion. England is now a Christian country, right? The English used to dance around naked and pray to the Sun and drink goat's blood and whatnot. So can I say that those are Christian customs?

If religion were why western countries ceased such practices as you describe, then it would stand to reason that they should have ceased in the much earlier days of Christianity. Religion is not the cause in either western nations historically, nor Middle Easter nations presently. Corrupt and twisted men are the cause.

Once again ... cutting the hand off of thieves is not Islamic practise. There is nothing in Qur'an that condones it or says it should be.

You clearly have a lot of trouble differentiating between a nations culture and a religion. England is now a Christian country, right? The English used to dance around naked and pray to the Sun and drink goat's blood and whatnot. So can I say that those are Christian customs?


do we still do it
is it law to worship the sun god
we have advanced
islams it seems has nt

[QUOTE=Metzia]


ok you have had the same amount of time as us
how come islamic are counrties are nt world superpowers
"allah is on your side isnt he"


Are you operating under the assumption that being a world superpower is a fitting, good and deeply religious thing. Do you remember a chap, I can't recall his name, said something about 'Blessed are the meek'?

[QUOTE=Metzia]


ok you have had the same amount of time as us
how come islamic are counrties are nt world superpowers
"allah is on your side isnt he"

So you believe Earthly power to be a sign of grace? You believe the Almighty bestows delights of the flesh upon those whom He favors? Did He cast you to the air and show you great cities and say all of this could be yours if you bow before Him?

I believe, my friend, you may be falling into Satan's trap.

do we still do it
is it law to worship the sun god
we have advanced
islams it seems has nt

Lol, you can't even get your trolling right. Proper anti-Muslim trolls denounce us as moon worshippers.

[QUOTE=Commandos 3]

So you believe Earthly power to be a sign of grace? You believe the Almighty bestows delights of the flesh upon those whom He favors? Did He cast you to the air and show you great cities and say all of this could be yours if you bow before Him?

I believe, my friend, you may be falling into Satan's trap.


you would think he would give you a hand though
you are the true believers are you nt

i go to heaven just for believeing in jesus and for being truely sorry for the mistakes i have made

Lol, you can't even get your trolling right. Proper anti-Muslim trolls denounce us as moon worshippers.



i dont care what you do as long as you are in a cage

do we still do it

Yes, some people do 'still' do it, but to be honest most of their druidic religion is an invention of the Victorians.


is it law to worship the sun god

Nope, but in the UK the Christian church and the state are closely linked, and blasphemy legislation only covers anti-Christian offences.

As far as the whole 'sun god' malarky goes... correct me if I'm wrong here, but we celebrate the birth of Jesus at the Winter Solstice give or take three days, don't we? Far be it from me to suggest that Christianity for all its trappings of being a 'new' religion is actually just a hodge-podge of older syncretised elements from other pagan religions...

I haven't read most of this debate, but let's try to keep paganism, Christianity, and Islam seperate please. After all, I'm not to fond of being compared to any religion involving making children to pass through the fires of Molech or condoning mass, drunken orgies in their temples...and I'm sure the Keruvalia and the other Muslims feel the same way.

i dont care what you do as long as you are in a cage

Inshallah America will never return to the days where dejure segregation is politcally acceptable. Perhaps some day you will learn to understand why the right to freedom of religion is important.

islams it seems has nt

How so? Am I not Muslim? Am I not on the same Internet as you? Do you think I ride a camel and live in a cave?

Yes, some people do 'still' do it, but to be honest most of their druidic religion is an invention of the Victorians.




Nope, but in the UK the Christian church and the state are closely linked, and blasphemy legislation only covers anti-Christian offences.

As far as the whole 'sun god' malarky goes... correct me if I'm wrong here, but we celebrate the birth of Jesus at the Winter Solstice give or take three days, don't we? Far be it from me to suggest that Christianity for all its trappings of being a 'new' religion is actually just a hodge-podge of older syncretised elements from other pagan religions...



Not me, I do not celebrate any religious holiday not specifically mentioned in the Bible. After all, I doubt sheperds would have their flocks grazing in the middle of winter ;)

you are the true believers are you nt

When you get down to it the differences between the Faiths of the Book are all pretty minor - we are after all children of Abraham.

How so? Am I not Muslim? Am I not on the same Internet as you? Do you think I ride a camel and live in a cave?



If so....how often does the camel spit on you and others? It would seem to get quite annoying after a while for me anyway.

you would think he would give you a hand though
you are the true believers are you nt

My life is going quite well and I am pretty content with things. Incidently, the one real world super power is the US ... a secular nation. Try to fold that into your mix, will ya?

i go to heaven just for believeing in jesus and for being truely sorry for the mistakes i have made

Well you may have a rough time explaining why you're holding and spewing so much hatred (a sin) for 1.5 billion people.

*giggles*
go fuck ureself
you dumb arab please go blow ureself up.
because only a muslim would do that for
allah (the devil)
then go find out about where mohammed first recited the koran
in a cave
also why is it that even though god is on ureside your religon does nt prosper
and his people are poor


Someone needs a time-out. FORUMBAN, 1 week.

If so....how often does the camel spit on you and others? It would seem to get quite annoying after a while for me anyway.

Dude ... I've been seriously contemplating trading in this camel. You couldn't imagine the embarrassment it causes at parties.

Someone needs a time-out. FORUMBAN, 1 week.

I feel like the Mods have just taken our ball away.

Someone needs a time-out. FORUMBAN, 1 week.

Not long enough if you ask me.

Dude ... I've been seriously contemplating trading in this camel. You couldn't imagine the embarrassment it causes at parties.



Yeah, the newer models don't have that problem. Good luck finding a buyer ;)

Dude ... I've been seriously contemplating trading in this camel. You couldn't imagine the embarrassment it causes at parties.

Do the two hump models have better mileage then the one hump model?

Do the two hump models have better mileage then the one hump model?



I'm guessing so, but it would be a pain in the pocketbook to fill both tanks up.

I learned alot from this thread. Except for Commando's (Whatever number he's using today) chimed in.




Thanks for all the information. It's nice to know what other religions are doing throughout the world.

You're welcome, I'm glad to have been of service.

El bumpo .

Bagels are yum yum good like pie.

Yes, I must say that I also love this thread (with the exception of that Commando idiot).

What do you think about the new fast food resturants that cook food according to Islamic cooking rules? Do you think they will take off? I want to try to eat there... would I get a weird look because I'm not a Muslim (I'm female and it's pretty obvious by looking at me I'm not Muslim)? What are Islamic cooking rules (besides not eating pig)?

I asked this before, but I only got a half answer before this thread faded into answering other stuff.

As a Muslim, do you consider it a matter of racism or a matter of playing the odds if you get checked more often at airports?

What do you think about the new fast food resturants that cook food according to Islamic cooking rules? Do you think they will take off? I want to try to eat there... would I get a weird look because I'm not a Muslim (I'm female and it's pretty obvious by looking at me I'm not Muslim)? What are Islamic cooking rules (besides not eating pig)?

I think it's a pretty good idea considering the large customer base they'd have. No, you wouldn't get any weird looks. It's just a restaurant.

Basically, food must be prepared with Allah in mind. An animal must be slaughtered while facing Mecca and bismillah must be said before the throat cutting. It's not that different from kosher, really.

As a Muslim, do you consider it a matter of racism or a matter of playing the odds if you get checked more often at airports?

Racism? No ... Muslim is not an ethnicity. In general, you probably wouldn't be able to pick a Muslim out of a crowd unles they were in some sort of traditional apparel or had a t-shirt that said, "Look at me, Ma! I'm Muslim!"

Now, if you meant to say Arab, yes. Yes I would consider that racism. It would also be barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for Muslims. Arabs comprise less than 13% of the Muslim world population and there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Arab Christians and other faiths.

Racism? No ... Muslim is not an ethnicity. In general, you probably wouldn't be able to pick a Muslim out of a crowd unles they were in some sort of traditional apparel or had a t-shirt that said, "Look at me, Ma! I'm Muslim!"

Now, if you meant to say Arab, yes. Yes I would consider that racism. It would also be barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for Muslims. Arabs comprise less than 13% of the Muslim world population and there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Arab Christians and other faiths.

That's a really good point and something I was foolish to overlook. But let's say I am talking about Arabs. Would you agree that based on past incidents there are statistically more Arab threats to the average Western airport than non-Arab threats?

Also, what if you could pick them out because of traditional apparel?

Don't troll. :rolleyes:

I am not looking for a racist / white supremacist interpretation here, a historian and linguist whose name I do not recall has actually looked at the languages at the time and suggested that the meaning of some expressions has changed with time. If you don't know, don't reply.
I read about that guy. I have a feeling that no Muslim would support his conclusions, as he also concluded that Mohammed was actually trying to convert Arabs to Christianity. I can't come to any conclusions about it though.

Is the concept of Allah (not to refute the existence of Allah, simply that paradoxically all we have is a concept because Allah is beyond conception) from Islam similar to the concept of the Tao (similarly beyond conception) taken from Taoism?

If so; in what ways are they the same and in what ways are they different?

What do you think about the new fast food resturants that cook food according to Islamic cooking rules? Do you think they will take off? I want to try to eat there... would I get a weird look because I'm not a Muslim (I'm female and it's pretty obvious by looking at me I'm not Muslim)? What are Islamic cooking rules (besides not eating pig)?

Well, I haven't seen any around here, but I don't think they'll take off in the states until a few years after the war on terrorism cools down. "Good" Muslims would not give you any weird looks, males aren't even supposed to look you in the face as a matter of respect, and hospitality rules should prevent any discourteousness to you. Of course, you may encounter those who are ... less inclined towards hospitality, their actions are not condoned or encouraged by their religion.

Islamic cooking rules are really very simple. The animals are to slaughtered facing Mecca (or if they are in Mecca - the Qiblah), the animal's throat is cut and the blood is drained (blood is something else Muslims are not to eat), and a prayer is said. Muslims are forbidden pork, blood, meat sacrificed to a deity other than Allah (false deity), and substances that interfere with one's ability for rational thought (drugs and alcohol).

As a Muslim, do you consider it a matter of racism or a matter of playing the odds if you get checked more often at airports?

To me it makes more sense to do something like that based not on religion but on nationality. We should watch those who come from countries where terrorism is taught. Second generation immigrants however, are American citizens and should not be treated any differently than any other. Likewise, rather an American citizen or not, I would expect anyone preaching violence against America while in America to be arrested and put in prison.

As for me personally, I'm white so unless I strap on the Arabic garb they wouldn't know one way or the other. Personally I think they should check everybody. Whoever it is you give a free ride to is their next means of attack. For example, in Algeria, France started cracking down on the Algerian male population when terrorists started bombing random places. As a result the terrorists started sending in women instead. If you check everyone except old ladies then eventually they'll get an old lady to do their work for them. Its just easier to check everyone because then there's no holes in the system and no reason for anyone to cry foul.

Have you also mistakingly eaten pork at a young age because you were too small to understand the similarities between "pork" and "ham"?

Who the hell decided to come up with two different names for the same meat? :mad:

I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO EAT THAT AT AGE 6!

Is the concept of Allah (not to refute the existence of Allah, simply that paradoxically all we have is a concept because Allah is beyond conception) from Islam similar to the concept of the Tao (similarly beyond conception) taken from Taoism?

If so; in what ways are they the same and in what ways are they different?

I admit it has been some time since I studied Taoism so I am somewhat unfamiliar with specifics, but this much at least I can say with certainty. According to Islam, Allah sent Prophets to every civilization. Some were met with opposition, some were stamped out, many had what they taught edited by later people so that their modern teachings are impure though some teachings are left intact.

I have a copy of the Tao Teh Ching with excerpts from the Hua Hu Ching and from what I have read it seems feasible to me that the Allah may have been the Universal Way it describes.

In terms of defining what Allah is, rather than who, or His function, Islam is fairly ambigous and describes Him as a being without form, or at least any form we can (currently) comprehend of incredible power and wisdom. I like to think of Him as being the human spirit, I suppose in that sense you could call me a theistic humanist.

Have you also mistakingly eaten pork at a young age because you were too small to understand the similarities between "pork" and "ham"?

Who the hell decided to come up with two different names for the same meat? :mad:

I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO EAT THAT AT AGE 6!

Yeah, I remember not knowing the difference. Pork, ham, pig, swine, hog... just too many names for one animal.

please excuse me if im going over past trodden ground on here but im genuinely curius (only read 2 pages on this thread lol) im an atheist but i do beive in following the general rules laid down in all religious books (10 commandments for the names sake) im puzzled the name jesus isnt right in the bible changed from the latin jhova-ihova by a misplaced j (ok ok saw it in the film indiana jones! lol ) an im wondering if the name jump could also be true for allah?, im not saying the man which is what he was is greater than anything just that names change an become misconsrewd over time with changing language (eg english has 26 letters russian about 35! an god knows howmany in arabic! lol) so im my mind its entirely possible goats nads like this can be dropped lol,
its my beilfe something did happen that man cannot understand but over time we fuged up what realy happend as what happens mostly in this world an then as you said in page either 1 or 2 some muppet comes along with a greivence with someone an uses the books to make it ''official'' to kill even when the 1st law said in bold embazon capitals THU SHALT NOT KILL ,
this is why i chose not to follow mainstream religion but my own path take care my frend an i hope u can help

From what I believed that the Muslim religion are more of an evolved state of Christian beliefs. I have always thought of Allah as the same thing as God. Except that Allah is more of a spiritual connection while God is passive in most of the Christian beliefs. I am not too clear on the whole difference though.

Speaking from having a low religious influence, isn't Allah just like God? If it is then why do terrorists base their things as being right? Kinda like the crusades of years past?

Surely this religion must have been misinterpreted somewehere along the line, to allow followers of Islam, a certain minority but still, to come to the United Kingdom, BEING PAID FOR BY MY FAMILY AND OTHER BRITISH TAXPAYERS - and blow themselves and other people up. Does the Koran condone this selfishness?? After all, they are 'biting the hand that feeds them'.

This has got to be the best thread ever. I had so many questions, and I found all the answers I was looking for. Thanks a bunch, all of you.

Speaking from having a low religious influence, isn't Allah just like God? If it is then why do terrorists base their things as being right? Kinda like the crusades of years past?

Allah = God in Arabic. Terrorists have a bad habit of ignoring whatever doesn't suit them. It is kind of like the crusades of old. I think the bible was pretty clear with Jesus's message of not trying to smash up your neighbors, but the kings and popes saw land and power so it went from "love thy neighbor" to "slay those other guys!" Likewise terrorists take rules like respect and deal honorably with your neighbor and some how get kill the infidel. It is not right, it is counter to the religion they claim to be fighting for, but they don't care.

Surely this religion must have been misinterpreted somewehere along the line, to allow followers of Islam, a certain minority but still, to come to the United Kingdom, BEING PAID FOR BY MY FAMILY AND OTHER BRITISH TAXPAYERS - and blow themselves and other people up. Does the Koran condone this selfishness?? After all, they are 'biting the hand that feeds them'.

Venting a bit? I don't blame you. Hopefully in the future Britain will arrest and put on trial for treason or sedition those who preach its destruction and have the audacity to do so on British soil. I could not believe when I flipped on the news and saw a group of at least 20 people chanting "death to..." with Tony Blair and Britain being the subject. There were cops nearby, but not one was arrested, and I believe they all should have been put in prison.

Interesting read, espically the spewing from Commandos 3, that was so funny.
Now, I can't think of any questions off hand, and I remember Keruv had a topic like this a while back where I asked whatever I had (Some very very very weird questions indeed). So, for now I think I'm content with my megre knowladge of Islam.

Well, I had several questions, regarding personal relationships between opposing genders (IE, dating, etc). But that was all answered. As I have my eye on a Muslim girl whom, in the near future and pending certian things, I wouldn't mind courting. However this thread has taught me two things.

1: I would be digging myself quite a deep hole if I tried. (Islam = Complicated to me)
2: I'm screwed in that endavour.

Still, nice read.

Allah = God in Arabic. Terrorists have a bad habit of ignoring whatever doesn't suit them. It is kind of like the crusades of old. I think the bible was pretty clear with Jesus's message of not trying to smash up your neighbors, but the kings and popes saw land and power so it went from "love thy neighbor" to "slay those other guys!" Likewise terrorists take rules like respect and deal honorably with your neighbor and some how get kill the infidel. It is not right, it is counter to the religion they claim to be fighting for, but they don't care.

Ah so it is pretty close. I never believed those terrorists were doing anything right, I know the Muslim religion is peace-loving, much like Christianity. The things that are done in a so-called holy war. Sure the west isn't exactly the pinnacle of morals, but in our eyes neither is the middle east. Need to be more tolerant of both and actually learn to get along really. Though that will never happen. :(

please excuse me if im going over past trodden ground on here but im genuinely curius (only read 2 pages on this thread lol) im an atheist but i do beive in following the general rules laid down in all religious books (10 commandments for the names sake) im puzzled the name jesus isnt right in the bible changed from the latin jhova-ihova by a misplaced j (ok ok saw it in the film indiana jones! lol ) an im wondering if the name jump could also be true for allah?, im not saying the man which is what he was is greater than anything just that names change an become misconsrewd over time with changing language (eg english has 26 letters russian about 35! an god knows howmany in arabic! lol) so im my mind its entirely possible goats nads like this can be dropped lol,
its my beilfe something did happen that man cannot understand but over time we fuged up what realy happend as what happens mostly in this world an then as you said in page either 1 or 2 some muppet comes along with a greivence with someone an uses the books to make it ''official'' to kill even when the 1st law said in bold embazon capitals THU SHALT NOT KILL ,
this is why i chose not to follow mainstream religion but my own path take care my frend an i hope u can help

Allah is simply Arabic for God. Among the reasons why most Muslims try to learn Arabic is so they can speak to each other without confusing local terminology.

Interesting read, espically the spewing from Commandos 3, that was so funny.
Now, I can't think of any questions off hand, and I remember Keruv had a topic like this a while back where I asked whatever I had (Some very very very weird questions indeed). So, for now I think I'm content with my megre knowladge of Islam.

Well, I had several questions, regarding personal relationships between opposing genders (IE, dating, etc). But that was all answered. As I have my eye on a Muslim girl whom, in the near future and pending certian things, I wouldn't mind courting. However this thread has taught me two things.

1: I would be digging myself quite a deep hole if I tried. (Islam = Complicated to me)
2: I'm screwed in that endavour.

Still, nice read.

Its not really all that complicated. Islamic moral philosophy can pretty much be summed up as respect God, respect your fellow humans. Everything else stems from one of those two.

This has got to be the best thread ever. I had so many questions, and I found all the answers I was looking for. Thanks a bunch, all of you.

You're Welcome :)

Really an interesting thread.
I think one of the greatest problem is the nearly complete ingorance that the Western culture have about the Islam (and the other religions... at least here in Italy where I live :p ). I have many curiosities about the Islam (and I'm too lay to start ready the Qu'ran ^^;;;) and I found here some answer.




btw sorry if my grammar is not really good -.-

I have always thought of Allah as the same thing as God. Except that Allah is more of a spiritual connection while God is passive in most of the Christian beliefs. I am not too clear on the whole difference though.

There is no difference. The world only has one god. How you refer to that god is up to you. Muslims call it Allah because that's what Abraham called it and the name given in Qur'an.

have always thought of Allah as the same thing as God. Except that Allah is more of a spiritual connection while God is passive in most of the Christian beliefs. I am not too clear on the whole difference though.


ok ill answer that
its very simple
allah is the arabic word for god
like good morning in english is bonjour in french and sabah el kheir in arabic etc....
allah=god
the word ilah means anything that is worshiped by anyone by buddhist muslims christians hindus any thing while allah is the god or the only god that the religions of the book worship (religions of the book include islam christianity and judaism)

i hope i answered your question

thanks metzia you have been both knowlegable an helpfull i wish the best for you on your path my frend an who knows in the herafter i may share a drink with you in that great bar in the sky lol (ps i know about the no drinking thingy but mead is made with honey not the other stuff u cant religiously drink !) take care and peace be on you :)

thanks metzia you have been both knowlegable an helpfull i wish the best for you on your path my frend an who knows in the herafter i may share a drink with you in that great bar in the sky lol (ps i know about the no drinking thingy but mead is made with honey not the other stuff u cant religiously drink !) take care and peace be on you :)

May peace be upon you as well, friend.

I apologize if this question is already buried somewhere in the 360 posts on this thread. But my question is this:

I've been told that, under Islamic law, any Muslim who converts to become a non-Muslim must be put to death. (1) Is this true? (2) If so, how often is this practiced? (3) If not, did this actually come from somewhere, or was I just being lied to?

Which actually puts another question into my mind: (4) In Islam, when is it ok to lie, if ever?

(1) Is this true?

Not really, no. In Qur'an, the only death penalty that may be handed out by men is for unrepented murder. Some religious leaders have, however, in the past handed out fatwahs against apostates (the most famous being the Rushdie thing). However, Rushdie is alive and well.

(2) If so, how often is this practiced?

Almost never.

(3) If not, did this actually come from somewhere, or was I just being lied to?

It came mostly from power mongering men abusing shari'ah and Qur'an.

(4) In Islam, when is it ok to lie, if ever?

Deception can be used if your life is in mortal danger and you can get out of it. Any law of Allah can be broken to save your life or the life of another with one exception ... you cannot blaspheme no matter what. The first commandment cannot be broken under any circumstances.

I apologize if this question is already buried somewhere in the 360 posts on this thread. But my question is this:

I've been told that, under Islamic law, any Muslim who converts to become a non-Muslim must be put to death. (1) Is this true? (2) If so, how often is this practiced? (3) If not, did this actually come from somewhere, or was I just being lied to?

Which actually puts another question into my mind: (4) In Islam, when is it ok to lie, if ever?

Apostates are not to be put to death, but aren't really well looked upon in the Qur'an. I suspect this is because at the time apostates had a bad habit of joining the enemy for a chance to plunder the Muslim kingdom. Where apostates and killing them is spoken of in the Qur'an it is always in concert with their first having committed treason by attacking Muslims. For the most part, peaceful apostates were meant to be treated with a mild neglect. Unfortunately cultural customs and local rulers have been prone over the years to turn mild neglect into harassment and at some times execution. These actions are not supported by the religion and are wrong. It is only practiced where there are enough Muslims ignorant of their own religion to allow such a heinous crime to take place.

Here in the West the media has a terrible tendancy to take anything bad that someone claiming to be Muslim does and slap "Islamic" in front of it. The most common example is the phrase "Islamic Terrorism" referring to a group of people who claim to be Muslims fighting for political wants that have nothing to do with Islam. Imagine if every time a christian did something bad the whole of Christianity were blamed for it regardless of rather or not what they were doing had anything to do with religion. It would not surprise me if you heard this on the radio or some random cable network from people who take little interest in actually researching things before they start bashing them.

Lying is only condoned by Islam when it is done to save one's life.

According to Islam, Allah sent Prophets to every civilization. Some were met with opposition, some were stamped out, many had what they taught edited by later people so that their modern teachings are impure though some teachings are left intact.

I just got to ask: How do you know that it's not Islam that's had its teachings edited and is therefore impure?

I just got to ask: How do you know that it's not Islam that's had its teachings edited and is therefore impure?

The Qur'an is still intact as it was meant to be by Muhammad. While men can still attempt to twist verses to their own liking the original still exists in abundance.

Under part 7 is given an explanation as to the purity of the Qur'anic text:

http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran-intro.htm

Under part 7 is given an explanation as to the purity of the Qur'anic text:

http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/quran-intro.htm

That's a terrific read, Metzia. :)

That's a terrific read, Metzia. :)

You're welcome :)

Ask a deaf lesbian albino muslim convert to judaism with a dicky eye.

Ask a deaf lesbian albino muslim convert to judaism with a dicky eye.

?

How do you know the however many angelic virgins wasnt a mistranslation of angry virginians? :p and yes thats a serious question

How do you know the however many angelic virgins wasnt a mistranslation of angry virginians? :p and yes thats a serious question

The whole virgins thing isn't real in the first place.

realy cause isnt that all u guys got going for you?

realy cause isnt that all u guys got going for you?

-_-

I mean come on realy isn't that btw u guys r the ones who worship that dome of rock arnt u?

I mean come on realy isn't that btw u guys r the ones who worship that dome of rock arnt u?

No, we worship only Allah.

[QUOTE=Metzia]Vanikoro

Despite what some may say America is not imperialist and by its own constitution can not go about Holy wars. There is even precedence in the form of the Barbary wars and specifically the treaty that ended them that backs this up.

I think that you have put your finger on the problem, albeit inadvertently. Intelligent and moral people can read a document, be it the Qu'ran or the U. S. Constitution, and have differing opinions as to what it contains. The unintelligent and immoral seem to find justification in those same documents for whatever they want to find.

Citing the Barbary wars as an example of how un-Imperialist the U. S. A. is is not really à propos since U. S. (and European) imperialism has gone through a number of stages. Perhaps territorial acquisitions since that time (Central and western parts of the present U. S., Puerto Rico, Philippines) and economic dominance (most of Caribbean and South America) might indicate certain imperialistic tendencies among some U. S. politicians.

One may consider it to be an aberration of a religion when Christian Crusaders visited horrors on the peoples of the eastern Mediterranean (Moslems, Jews, and Orthodox Christians) or when equally fanatical Moslems visited horrors on peoples living in Europe or the U.S.A. (Christians, Moslems, Jews, Buddists, etc.), but do remember that the clergy of those religions preached 'crusade' or 'jihaad'. When Christian and Moslem clergy recognize what their religions are suppose to teach, then the rest of us can feel safe.

How do you know the however many angelic virgins wasnt a mistranslation of angry virginians?

1] There is nothing in Qur'an about getting virgins in Paradise.

2] There was no Virginia when Qur'an was written.

I mean come on realy isn't that btw u guys r the ones who worship that dome of rock arnt u?

The Dome of the Rock is a mosque in Jerusalem. We don't worship it.

Y'know, this thread started of pretty well but then went downhill...

My question is based on an earlier comment,

You declared that you feel for all muslims suffering wherever they are and that you would help them out whenever you could, (this was specifically looking at Indonesia,) and that you feel there is a community between muslims.

But then later on you said something along the lines that you don't have a duty to apologise for Terrorists as they weren't part of your faith. But surely as you debated with Aryavartha- if these people are being misguided to as to the true meaning of Islam you have a duty to help them.

Spread the true word as it were?

btw, why can trolls never spell. That and poor grammar really gets on my nerves

alright, where's my typo

Y'know, this thread started of pretty well but then went downhill...

My question is based on an earlier comment,

You declared that you feel for all muslims suffering wherever they are and that you would help them out whenever you could, (this was specifically looking at Indonesia,) and that you feel there is a community between muslims.

But then later on you said something along the lines that you don't have a duty to apologise for Terrorists as they weren't part of your faith. But surely as you debated with Aryavartha- if these people are being misguided to as to the true meaning of Islam you have a duty to help them.

Spread the true word as it were?

btw, why can trolls never spell. That and poor grammar really gets on my nerves

alright, where's my typo

As a Muslim I would try to talk a terrorist out of being one, but given the way terrorists operate s/he probably wouldn't be able to let me live without joining them if I failed to convince them that what they are doing is wrong. As an American if I failed to convince them that what they are doing is wrong then it would be my duty to stop them, something they would probably know about me if I knew them well enough to know what they were planning. Either I would succeed in persuading him or one of us would die.

I have no duty to apologize for actions not my own nor my causing, nor the right to. I would not presume to apologize on the behalf of someone who would never apologize for what they have done. I would fight that person to the death if need be because as Kant would have it, rational beings are responsible for their behavior and so they are accountable for what they do. Terrorists should be held accountable for what they do, not people who aren't terrorists.

bump

hi all an good to see ya! sorry ive been away been busyhavin a looky at some christian debate sites round these parts an i found something rather alarming and sadly that is as an athiest i seem to be reviled by most supposedly tolerant faiths lol (big surprise ... not)
in support of metzia he has no case to answer for the terrorists are simply not misguided but extremely thick they are told a version of the faith and blindly follow like a cheeta into a landmine filled feild there is no mention of the virgins in paradise as reward for killing either non muslim or even muslim for that matter an if there were im sure they would be big well hung homosexual virgins with a randyness fator of one million for those who do kill an at 72 of em dayum what a nightmare for all eternity as for anyone who has followed a worthy path im not sure but the quran (sorry if misspelt) states and preaches tolerance for followers of a diffrent path an it even has a name for them out of repect i hope i am number'd as one of those tk metzia an stay safe

Hey, just a question:

I heard that Shiis and Sunnis got separated after the dead of the Madhi, and that Shiis expect the return of the Imam as their Messiah; but recently somebody told me that the shiis are originals from the hashishins sect (born in Palestine in the Middle Age).

Which of them is true?

Hey, just a question:

I heard that Shiis and Sunnis got separated after the dead of the Madhi, and that Shiis expect the return of the Imam as their Messiah; but recently somebody told me that the shiis are originals from the hashishins sect (born in Palestine in the Middle Age).

Which of them is true?


The Sunni and Shia split began at the death of Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a dispute in leadership. The Shia believed that those within Muhammad's family could only rule like Ali, however the Sunni believed the people should elect a leader and therefore hold Abu Bakr as the first legitimate caliph. There within, the Sunni and Shia had different doctrines.

You are right by saying that the Shia believe the Imam Mahdi is alive today and is one of the 12 imams and the Sunni do not believe this is the case. But this isn't the cause of the split between Sunni and Shia.

Thank you for the info.

BTW, could you give me web links where I can find stuff about muslim art - preferently sculpture? Thank you in advance :p

http://www.islamicarchitecture.org/art/index.html


That's the best I can find sorry.

That's right, you heard me ... BUMP!

Still folks out there with questions, concerns, and whatnot.

I was wondering, I am sure someone has asked, but please answer anyway.
what do Muslims believe about heaven and hell?
what do you believe about sin?
what do you believe about other religions?
Is it true that you believe you should kill anyone who isn't Muslim? ( I didn't ever really believe it, but if I hear the truth from a Muslim it will make it easier for me to state the facts in a debate with friends.)

I would really like a practicing Muslim to answer these questions. I already know what I have heard from others who aren't reliable sources.

What are your views on Naskh (abrogation)?

what do Muslims believe about heaven and hell?

Heaven is pretty much where everyone goes, just on different levels. Hell is reserved for the truly evil.

what do you believe about sin?

I think I may have put a list somewhere around here, but there are around 70 specific things that Muslims consider to be "sins". However, sin is not without forgiveness. We are human and, thus, imperfect. We will sin. The trick is to avoid it as much as possible.

what do you believe about other religions?

To each their own. Or, in the words of Qur'an: "To you be your Way and to me be mine" 109:6

Is it true that you believe you should kill anyone who isn't Muslim?

No.

What are your views on Naskh (abrogation)?

I see the Word of God as a living thing, not something carved in stone. It's why we've received God's word several times. First through Torah, then through the teachings of Jesus, then through Qur'an.

God is very smart.

Keruvalia-

thanks like I said the last question was only asked so basically when someone says that I can say "that isn't true, I know a Muslim and they said so"

Keruvalia-

thanks like I said the last question was only asked so basically when someone says that I can say "that isn't true, I know a Muslim and they said so"

Well ... there are those who call themselves Muslim who will tell you it is true, but they cannot back it up with Qur'an. It simply isn't there.

However, those people are no more Muslim than the Rev. Jim Jones could be rightfully called Christian.

What is your view on Sharia?
If you disagree with the interpretation of Sharia adhered to by groups such as the Taliban and nations such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, why?

What is your view on Sharia?
If you disagree with the interpretation of Sharia adhered to by groups such as the Taliban and nations such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, why?

Sharia is a stain upon all of Islam. It should be abolished entirely and the Muslim people return to Qur'an.

Sharia is a stain upon all of Islam. It should be abolished entirely and the Muslim people return to Qur'an.
The Qur'an exclusively (no hadith)?

The Qur'an exclusively (no hadith)?

No Hadith. Muhammed specifically warned people against Hadith. He was afraid it would elevate him to a place he wasn't supposed to be and that people would start looking to it instead of Qur'an for guidance.

He was right. Look at the shahadah, the phrase you state when converting to Islam. "La ilaha illa Llah Muhammadun rasulu'Llah" or "I bear witness that there is no god save Allah and that Muhammed is his messenger" ... this places Muhammed's name in the same sentence and context as Allah's and, thus, places Muhammed next to Allah in violation of Qur'an.

Good read on that: http://www.submission.org/islam/myth.html

Hadith must go, too.

How do you feel about former Muslims who have converted to another religion? Do you feel Islamic countries should "open up" for teachings and conversions of all faiths?

How do you feel about former Muslims who have converted to another religion? Do you feel Islamic countries should "open up" for teachings and conversions of all faiths?

That is their business. It is between them and Allah, not between them and me. Some cultures will kill apostates, but there is nothing in Qur'an which sanctions such murder.

Is there an online translation of the Qur'an that you would recommend as accurate?

Is there an online translation of the Qur'an that you would recommend as accurate?

Here: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM

(Assuming you meant English)

Well ... there are those who call themselves Muslim who will tell you it is true, but they cannot back it up with Qur'an. It simply isn't there.

However, those people are no more Muslim than the Rev. Jim Jones could be rightfully called Christian.
great analogy. I so get it now.

Here: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM

(Assuming you meant English)
I did.
Things I don't understand:
5.51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

This appears to read that Muslims should not associate with non-Muslims.

5.72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

This appears to read that all Christians will go to hell.

5.116. And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Christians don't believe this, where did he get this idea from?

4.15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

This appears to read as, "If women cheat, lock them up until they are dead."
whereas

4.16. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

men should receive a simple punishment, unless they repent, in which case all is forgiven.

4.24. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

This appears to suggest that you can sleep with a married woman if she is your slave.

4.34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

This appears to read as, "If your wife is constantly disobedient, beat her."

2.223. Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

This appears to read that a wife has no say over her own body, it is her husband's decision when and in what manner they will have sex.

Keruvalia

Why do you not consider Abu Musab Al Zaquari a terrorist ? From what I have read in this thread you seem reasonable . In fact I bookmarked this thread in my favorites because it helps me understand something of Islam and muslims . For some reason in the other thread you said I was a shit and should chant my Bush mantra or some such non-sense . Why cant Abu Musab Al Zaquari be judged by his actions such as the beheadings and the other actions he has taken in the name of Islam ?

Originally Posted by Keruvalia
Don't care, you shit. You only label him a terrorist because of your preconceived notions.

Unfortunately, you've forgotten your own Bush rally cry

I have no pre concieved notions . I am judging him a terrorist based on the actions he takes and the way he takes them and by his words . The people he targets and kidnaps and kills and explodes , the men women and children . The civilians of Iraq . There deaths at his and the hands of his followers lead me to call him a terrorist .

Keruvalia

Why do you not consider Abu Musab Al Zaquari a terrorist ?

Because I'm not an arrogant American Nationalist.

Because I'm not an arrogant American Nationalist.

Ok I see now , " there is nothing between us need to be explained, there is only killing and neck smiting " . Its no wonder things are the way they exist .
Thank you for helping me understand .

Ok I see now , " there is nothing between us need to be explained, there is only killing and neck smiting " . Its no wonder things are the way they exist .
Thank you for helping me understand .

You're the one making accusations and placing labels when there has been no due process. What are you ... a communist?

I will not call anyone a terrorist until they have been tried in a court of law, given their right to defense, and plead their case before a jury of their peers.

Go ahead, ask away. I'll answer to the best of my ability or refer you to a source that can better answer.
Why is every holy book, like the Bible, of the Jewish book (forget what it was called) corrupted accept the Koran? No offense, but I think Muhammed was f**ked up when he wrote that suff.

Why do Muslims get too religious with Islam and start to become terrorists?

Why does Muhammed think Islam is so great that it should rule the world?

Why is the religion so great, to Iraqi terrorists, if it takes away many rights to a woman and Christianity does not?

Finally...
Why is the Jihad so important, but it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere to the Western and more modern regions? bin Laden is so devoted but his Jihad network is barely getting anywhere to us Americans and others. He's such a fag.

(Once again, no offense, I thought Islam was pretty interesting, but when I read that Muhammed thinks the Bible is corrupt, the Jihad has no point and is too worthless, and it discriminates the rights of females. I would rather be a follower to Judaism if I wasn't a Christian)
(LONG LIVE CHRISTIANITY!)

Why

Every one of your questions has already been answered. Read the thread before asking questions.

Why is the religion so great, to Iraqi terrorists, if it takes away many rights to a woman and Christianity does not?

Islam doesn't take away rights from women. Some governments have, but Islam does not. Do not confuse the two lest I start bringing up Paul again and reminding you that your women are not allowed to talk in church, preach, and must be held as property to their husbands. Just read Paul's letters to the Cornthians.

In Islam, as in Judaism, women are equal to men.

From Muhammad's farewell sermon:
"O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right, then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."

In Islam, as in Judaism, women are equal to men.


Dunno abt Judaism and don't care too (coz they ain't blowing me up :D )

I am terribly sorry if it is a hadith which mandates this and correct me if I am wrong....but doesn't the Qur'an say that the word of a women is only half of the word of a man (meaning that evidence of a man would be considered more than the evidence of a woman) ?

Also, what about the rule that allows a muslim man to marry a woman of ahl-e-kitab with no conversion required but a muslim woman can never marry anybody outside the faith, without the man converting before marriage?

Is this not discrimination? Why are men allowed to marry outside the faith but women are not?

Is it the Qur'an which mandates that or the hadiths?

Dunno abt Judaism and don't care too (coz they ain't blowing me up :D )

Muslims aren't blowing you up either.

I am terribly sorry if it is a hadith which mandates this and correct me if I am wrong....but doesn't the Qur'an say that the word of a women is only half of the word of a man (meaning that evidence of a man would be considered more than the evidence of a woman) ?

Judaism has similar laws, and in both such things can be construed, but it's generally taken out of context in its meaning.

Also, what about the rule that allows a muslim man to marry a woman of ahl-e-kitab with no conversion required but a muslim woman can never marry anybody outside the faith, without the man converting before marriage?

Again, as compared to the reverse in Judaism. In Judaism, if your mother is a Jew, then you are a Jew. Hence, it is very strongly encouraged that Jewish men only marry a Jewish woman so that his bloodline be Jewish. In many Muslim circles, but not by Qur'an only by culture, if your father is Muslim, then you are Muslim.

There is nothing about this in Qur'an. It's hadith. Qur'an encourages every man and woman to find a compatable mate. Marriage is a cornerstone of Muslim life.

bin Laden is so devoted but his Jihad network is barely getting anywhere to us Americans and others. He's such a fag.

I wasn't aware that bin Laden slept with men.

Anyway, don't put down gay people like that. It's not nice.

Islam doesn't take away rights from women. Some governments have, but Islam does not.

Actually, most of the laws for women do come from Islam. And, you forget that the laws could from Islam because the only governments that do this stuff to women's rights are Islamic governments - Middle Eastern nations are the ones that do this and they are all run by Muslim leaders, just not a hierarchy.

I wasn't aware that bin Laden slept with men.

Anyway, don't put down gay people like that. It's not nice.
I called him a fag not gay.

I called him a fag not gay.
fag
n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

Oh dear... :rolleyes:

Actually, most of the laws for women do come from Islam.

Where? I've looked all through my Qur'an and I simply cannot find where in Islam it says women are to be treated as second class citizens. It's just not in there. Matter of fact, I keep stumbling across all these passages which give women a rather lofty status in humanity.

Maybe you have a different Qur'an than I do?

Originally posted by Keruvalia
Do not confuse the two lest I start bringing up Paul again and reminding you that your women are not allowed to talk in church, preach, and must be held as property to their husbands. Just read Paul's letters to the Cornthians.

Hmm, an interesting point. After I read this, I naturally went to my Bible and read through 1 Corinthians, and it turns out that you are technically right. The most controversial bit is the speaking in church bit - here's the verse:

As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to enquire about something, they should ask theit own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. 1 Corinthians 14 v 33 - 35

Now, as you say, this means that women in the Christian faith shouldn't speak in church. However, remember that Paul was quite probably heavily influenced by the culture of his time - basically that women were worth very little, and should be afforded very few if any rights. Also, Paul himself doesn't appear to think overly much of women himself. Besides which Paul was after all just a human.

Now I know the Bible is God-breathed (remember I'm speaking as a Christian, stating my beliefs etc, I'm not in any way trying to say that you should all accept this as true, or trying to slight Islam in any way) but surely what man has written other men may change? So what Paul said, other men can change - so more modern Christian dogma allowing women more rights than this is more valid. I dunno really - just a suggestion.

ANd btw, I couldn't find anywhere anything saying that they shouldn't preach (unless you count the whole not speaking in churhc, but then you can preach outside church as well) and the closest he gets to saying women are the property of men is saying 'a woman's body belongs to her husband, just as a man's to his wife' which is basically saying that a married couple belong together and so on.

Having said all that however, I must admit that after I read that passage my opinion of Paul did drop somewhat.

Having said all that however, I must admit that after I read that passage my opinion of Paul did drop somewhat.

It's one of the reasons we Muslims say the Bible is corrupt. In the Bible, the holy words of Allah, as spoke through Jesus, are placed side by side with the words of man (Paul, Peter, etc).

That's blasphemy to us.

Muslims aren't blowing you up either.

Tell that to the more than 40,000 dead in the ongoing jihad against my country.

Judaism has similar laws, and in both such things can be construed, but it's generally taken out of context in its meaning.

Don't care what Judaism says or does not say.

Please tell me in what context am I to understand this

4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half.


[QUOTE]4:176 They ask thee for a pronouncement. Say: Allah hath pronounced for you concerning distant kindred. If a man die childless and he have a sister, hers is half the heritage, and he would have inherited from her had she died childless. And if there be two sisters, then theirs are two-thirds of the heritage, and if they be brethren, men and women, unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females. Allah expoundeth unto you, so that ye err not. Allah is Knower of all things.

Are the verses wrongly intrepreted? What is the meaning of when it says "a male has the equivalent share of two females"

I think that it is based in this, the sharia courts mandate that a male witness's word is worth two female witnesses's word.


There is nothing about this in Qur'an. It's hadith. Qur'an encourages every man and woman to find a compatable mate. Marriage is a cornerstone of Muslim life.

Then why are muslim women punished for zina (adultery) when they marry a non-muslim, when all they are doing is to find a compatible mate as they see it?

Why is it that they cannot marry outside faith (without being accused of zina and consequent punishment for that), while the male can?

I don't think this is a purely cultural/social thing, becuase I haven't seen an instance of a muslim woman marrying ourside faith and still being accepted as a muslim (as in going unhindered to the mosque as before marriage etc).

Have you?

Have you?

All the time. Plenty of women at my mosque married to non-Muslim men.

So, yeah, it's a cultural thing, not an Islamic thing.

Thanks to all for a great (2 hour straight) read!
Congrats on your patience.

Aryavartha, just a small note. You should start differntiating between a religion and people who use this religion to further their political, economic, personal aims.

BTW, I'm atheist, but it was still an excellent read ;)

All the time. Plenty of women at my mosque married to non-Muslim men.

So, yeah, it's a cultural thing, not an Islamic thing.

hmmm..this is an unheard of thing in non-western Islamic societies.

I know of an instance where the poor girl was ostracized by her community elders and boycotted and the girl and her non-muslim husband had to eventually relocate.

Btw, what about the verses 4:11 and 4:176 that I referred in my earlier post?

You should start differntiating between a religion and people who use this religion to further their political, economic, personal aims.


But the ummah is one ummah, no? :confused:

All the time. Plenty of women at my mosque married to non-Muslim men.

So, yeah, it's a cultural thing, not an Islamic thing.


Hahaha, thanks Keruv, new hope in my venture for the young lady.

Which brings me to an odd question.
I'm currently doing first year Arabic at my university and am interested in making an attempt at reading the Qur'an (As I would think it the best resourceto practising reading Arabic) once I get far enough into the course to be able to read more then 5 letters, and when I get the money.
So, I was wondering what would be a good copy of the Qur'an to pick up here in the west? Anything avalible in the US and/or Canada I can do. I ask because knowing me I'll end up with the worst print version around if I go look myself.

Oh, and my note on Arabic: Those dots kick ass.

It's just that your original post sounded like it could have been written by the Stormfront crowd that was over here in 2003. :eek: Really. Perhaps that was not your intention, but they certainly had their distinct brand of Cultural Imperialism Lite, as anyone who can remember that far back will recall.
*shudder* yes...

But the ummah is one ummah, no? :confused:

Not since the dissolution of the Caliphate. We now have no central headquarters that deals with such things as the poor treatment of women, etc.

Hence, folks like bin Laden, etc, are allowed to go around calling themselves "Muslim" and blowing up schools.

The only authority we have now is Qur'an.

Sorry if this simple question as been asked already(I read about 9 pages, so I skipped ahead), but is it true that some Muslims find the Koran spelling offensive, and would rather see Qu'ran be used?

Sorry if this simple question as been asked already(I read about 9 pages, so I skipped ahead), but is it true that some Muslims find the Koran spelling offensive, and would rather see Qu'ran be used?

Heh ... first I've heard of it. But, then, apparently I have somehow managed to only encounter some strange breed of Hippie Muslims that don't exist anywhere else in the world.

Or ... at least ... so I've heard.