NationStates Jolt Archive

I am married to a Japanese woman and have lived in Japan for 5 years. We are trying to have children but no luck so far. In the future we plan to move back to the US because I am an only child so I need to take care of my parents while she has brothers and sisters to take care of hers.
Now on to the point. In Japan is is customary for fathers to bath with their children. Father will bath with their children until the child is 11 or 12 years old. My wife bathed with her father until she was 12 and thought nothing of it. She expects me to do the same with our kids.
I am in a bit in a bind. I want our children to be comfortable in both cultures. I want them to experience Japanese and American life so I would like to honor my wife's culture in this area. But. . .bathing with a kid, especially a daughter if we have one, that late in their life 11 or 12 would severely frowned upon in the states. I have had nightmare thoughts about my kid going into school and telling her friends this and bammo I am in jail for molestation and the kids are in a foster home.
I am just curious what people think about this.

I am married to a Japanese woman and have lived in Japan for 5 years. We are trying to have children but no luck so far. In the future we plan to move back to the US because I am an only child so I need to take care of my parents while she has brothers and sisters to take care of hers.
Now on to the point. In Japan is is customary for fathers to bath with their children. Father will bath with their children until the child is 11 or 12 years old. My wife bathed with her father until she was 12 and thought nothing of it. She expects me to do the same with our kids.
I am in a bit in a bind. I want our children to be comfortable in both cultures. I want them to experience Japanese and American life so I would like to honor my wife's culture in this area. But. . .bathing with a kid, especially a daughter if we have one, that late in their life 11 or 12 would severely frowned upon in the states. I have had nightmare thoughts about my kid going into school and telling her friends this and bammo I am in jail for molestation and the kids are in a foster home.
I am just curious what people think about this.

Wear swimming trunks.

If you're going to respect her culture, she should respect yours.

And the law overrides any consideration of culture.

Wear swimming trunks.

This had me laughing. It is such a simple solution.

If you're going to respect her culture, she should respect yours.

And the law overrides any consideration of culture.

True true. I wonder what the law would say specifically about this. Is there a law about not bathing with children? Of course, considering the other laws that are on the books there probably is one.
In all honesty I am creeped out by it.

While 11-12 might be a bit on the older side, I don't see the problem. Here kids bathe with their parents and nothing bad comes of it.

If you're planning on coming to the US before having kids, give her a noncommittal. She might see that it's not an generally acceptable practice in the US. All you would need is a 5yr old going to school and saying "I took a bath w/ daddy last night" and you will be in jail.

While 11-12 might be a bit on the older side, I don't see the problem. Here kids bathe with their parents and nothing bad comes of it.

Part of me agrees with you but in this case a larger part of me agrees with Whispering Legs. Knowing my nation I know that if I did do this it would land me in a world of trouble.
And also from having been raised in the culture it does wierd me out. I don't think my wife would insist upon this so there is no danger of trouble there but she is going to think I am strange for my position.

Yes, that could end up bad, but I guess the question is are you more worried about respecting your wife's cultural values, or the possiblility that the government might intervene? I mean they can think it's wierd all they want, but they have no legal right whatsoever to remove a child from your care because you bathe with them - they are only allowed to do so in cases of abuse or neglect. If they cannot prove abuse, then they won't put the kid in a foster family.

It's still a tough choice, because considering the general american outlook on doing anything outside the immediate norm with children as an adult ala Michael Jackson, it could be a powderkeg. I guess it depends on how important it is to your wife, and whether you are willing to face down "the Man" to keep that element of Japanese culture in your family.

If you're planning on coming to the US before having kids, give her a noncommittal. She might see that it's not an generally acceptable practice in the US. All you would need is a 5yr old going to school and saying "I took a bath w/ daddy last night" and you will be in jail.

Yeah, exactly. I am not going to do it, I have pretty much made up my mind. Just interested in what people thought.

I think it is going to be difficult to raise a child in both cultures, either way.
If you are going back to te States, some of the Japanese customs will at least be frowned upon, if you happen to come across a nasty person they may cause you immense trouble.
If you stay in Japan and try to raise your child accoreding to your own custom, I'm pretty sure either you or the kid would end up in trouble as well.
In my opinion, you will have to decide this case to case. This you can do, this you can't. Take all that's possible from both cultures and teach it to the child, but leave the impossible aside.
The good thing about that is, it will force you to really think about every step you take, so you won't end up doing things "because that's how they've always been done"

Go with what is comfortable to you. You do not have to adhere to every single Japanese custom in order to respect your wife's culture. Some things you will simply be unable to get over. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it.

It is kind of sad though, when you think about it, that this should even be an issue. Yes, there are parents out there who abuse their children. But the majority of normal adults do not view children as sexual objects. Mothers in North America can bathe with their children, but only up to a certain age...and the issue is very gender specific. Kids are frowned upon if they run around naked. Fathers in particular are not supposed to be too 'touchy-feely' with their children (or in the case of teachers, with their students). Frankly, I think this undercurrent of fear about sexuality (in ourselves or our children) is vastly blown out of proportion, and unhealthy.

Nonetheless, I would share your discomfort.

It is really sad that a good parent has to worry about whether or not to bathe/sleep in a bed with their children because of a few bad parents out there. If it makes you personally uncomfortable, or if it ever begins to make the future child uncomfortable, don't do it - but don't refrain because you are worried what others might think.

If you think it could cause embarrasment for your child in school, then don't do it. If you think it could get you in unecessary trouble with the law, then don't do it.Your wife should be compassionate to your culture just as you are to hers. And since this not part of your culture, if you don't want to do it, she should understand.

A long termer here in Japan - this is one of those that even after 14 years here still makes me uncomfortable. I acknowledge that children bathing with parents of the opposite sex is ok here but, having a father walk into the sento or onsen with a daughter who's old enough to know what's what (and trust me, Japanese sex ed starts at mid-elementary) is not comfortable.

Sinuhue - I agree about the touchy feely-thing, especially as a children's ESL teacher.

Cabra West - Trust me, a kid here with a gaijin daddy is going to stick out - in both positive and negative ways. If daddy doesn't bathe with the kids, or has the kids sleep in another room, it's just a part of having a gaijin daddy. (And yes children commonly sleep in the same bed as their parents here.)

... in the US. All you would need is a 5yr old going to school and saying "I took a bath w/ daddy last night" and you will be in jail.
lately..US justice system is screwed...people assumes you are guilty until you prove your innocence...
I would stay in Japan.

Part of me agrees with you but in this case a larger part of me agrees with Whispering Legs. Knowing my nation I know that if I did do this it would land me in a world of trouble.
And also from having been raised in the culture it does wierd me out. I don't think my wife would insist upon this so there is no danger of trouble there but she is going to think I am strange for my position.

Yes, there are cases of people going to jail for taking pictures of their children in the tub because it was taken to be child pornography. I don't think there've been any convictions, but still, to even be arrested for it...

(And yes children commonly sleep in the same bed as their parents here.)
What if the parents want to uh... make more kids...?

What if the parents want to uh... make more kids...?

Sorry, that's one area I really have avoided poking my nose into.

Not having first hand experience, the best answers I can give you:
1) It seems to be fairly common for couples to sleep in different rooms. AFAIK, children generally sleep with one or the other parent, so night time visits may be one answer.

2) "Love hotels" (local version of no tell motels) are popular for a reason:
Japan's love hotels differ from the typical roadside motel in that a majority of the clientele are, in fact, married to each other and only seeking the privacy not available in their own small accommodations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_hotel

3) There are many sexless marriages here (the exact number is debated, but is sgreed by all to be significant). Add the low birthrate - around 10/1000, and you can see that there doesn't appear to be a lot of post children conjugal biss. :(

What if the parents want to uh... make more kids...?
As Daistallia has pointed out...some couples sleep separately.

The kids sleep with me...one in a play pen, the other always ends up with me half-way through the night. Sometimes the baby does too. It's amazing how little people can take up all the space...

My husband snores something awful. And can't stand little diggy feet during the night, so he sleeps downstairs.

Sex is an adventure...you have to make time for it, and that can be hard with kids around...but I've never been a fan of nighttime adventures, as I treasure my sleep, and even more so since I've had kids.

The occasional weekend at a hotel is necessary.

Coming home during lunch break, also necessary.

It works if you make it work.


However, some people have been 'weirded out' when I tell them my kids sleep with me. I have to roll my eyes. My brother had nightmares and ran to my mom's bed until he was seven. (Dad worked out of town) There's nothing wrong with it, and I refuse to let people's own inhibitions and weird ideas about children interfere with how I raise mine. Only my own weird ideas and inhibitions are allowed:).

I wouldn't advise the bathing with children not only because of legal reasons but if you're in the states the child will figure out it's not normal here and might be uncomfortable with it. Especially young girls. I know once I got to 10 I didn't even want my mom to see me in the nude and we're a very open all female family.

P.S. About sleeping with parent, I don't think that's weird or unacceptable in the US. I know plenty of younger folks do that. My 15 year old sister quite often sleeps with my mom still.

Considering I started to develop very young and could have gotten pregnant by that age I think that your wife needs to cop herself on if ye are going to live in the US, that stuff might've worked 20 years ago in the neither regions of Japan but someone will call in social services if you do it now.

A friend mine used to shower while her Dad and brother used the bathroom u til she was 13, and I used to think that this was gross!

As Daistallia has pointed out...some couples sleep separately.

The kids sleep with me...one in a play pen, the other always ends up with me half-way through the night. Sometimes the baby does too. It's amazing how little people can take up all the space...

My husband snores something awful. And can't stand little diggy feet during the night, so he sleeps downstairs.

Sex is an adventure...you have to make time for it, and that can be hard with kids around...but I've never been a fan of nighttime adventures, as I treasure my sleep, and even more so since I've had kids.

The occasional weekend at a hotel is necessary.

Coming home during lunch break, also necessary.

It works if you make it work.


However, some people have been 'weirded out' when I tell them my kids sleep with me. I have to roll my eyes. My brother had nightmares and ran to my mom's bed until he was seven. (Dad worked out of town) There's nothing wrong with it, and I refuse to let people's own inhibitions and weird ideas about children interfere with how I raise mine. Only my own weird ideas and inhibitions are allowed:).

Theres nothing at all wrong with kids sleeping in their parents beds, tho letting them constantly do it from when they are babies can result in very bad habits when they're old enough to get their own room. (Most ppl I know have their kids sleeping in cots in their rooms til they are about 16-20 months.

While 11-12 might be a bit on the older side, I don't see the problem. Here kids bathe with their parents and nothing bad comes of it.
I agree.
Besides, if I remember correctly, bathing children usually floods the bathroom - it's definitely easier if you are in the tub as well.
I think 4-5 year olds start to decide for themselves whether they want to join you in the tub or not.
And if you're not comfortable with it, tell your wife or make it a family experience, just like going to the sauna. No big deal, after all!

there will come a time when your children will become naturally modest. this is the time to stop having them bathe with you. it will probably happen way before they are 11 years old. until then its no big deal. its a lovely family tradition that you will miss terribly when its over.

I was born and raised in Canada, both my parents European immigrants. We were naked around each other and I took baths with them up until I was 9. One of the reasons it stopped was because when my friends found out, they made huge deal of it and made me feel like I was from a creepy family full of weirdos. Being sexualy abused by my babysitter's daughters then threatened with death by my babysitter's husband because of it was the clincher for me. It completley ruined what was until then a perfectly innocent aspect of my families private life.

I didn't tell my parents about the abuse until 20 years later, but as soon as I showed signs of discomfort around bathing and nudity in front of them, my parents immediately stopped. I think its a pretty sad comment on our culture when children and adults in the bath or bed together is automaticly equated with sexual abuse. The Lowest Common Denominator seems to be the standard by which North Americans judge anyone and everything. I'm so glad I was born into a family that doesn't adhere to the NA culture of shame and repression. Growing up with a cultural inclination to having your mind in the gutter has got to suck.

How about a compromise? If you have a son, you could shower with him until the age of 8 or so... If you have a daughter, your wife can shower with her until the age of 8 or so... That seems fair to me. I don't think it's a big deal if parents and kids of the same gender shower together. My Nana and I showered together until I was around the age of nine, and it wasn't a big deal. It was mostly to save water and for her to help me wash my hair (which is very thick). If I showered alone, I took FOREVER... but when she was there, I hurried up.

I agree.
Besides, if I remember correctly, bathing children usually floods the bathroom - it's definitely easier if you are in the tub as well.
I think 4-5 year olds start to decide for themselves whether they want to join you in the tub or not.
And if you're not comfortable with it, tell your wife or make it a family experience, just like going to the sauna. No big deal, after all!

From what I heard, Americans don't even go to the sauna completely nacked. They would wear a towel or something... that got my father in a very uncomfortable situation once when he was in a hotel over there and wanted to use the sauna :eek:

From what I heard, Americans don't even go to the sauna completely naked. They would wear a towel or something... that got my father in a very uncomfortable situation once when he was in a hotel over there and wanted to use the sauna :eek:
yeah, have you seen US porno movies..the women are never completely naked..they always wearing shoes :confused:
and they always suck :D

I think there is too much paranoia about a lot of this.

I mean, as a child I would, if I saw big creepy shadows, go and sleep with my dad (I couldn't with my mom because she shared her bed with her boyfriend who didn't like me).

I had naked baths with a cousin in order to save water.

When I was about 12, I shared a bath with a toddler who was over with his parents. His mother was in the bathroom. We had only one bath, so sharing was an option in order to save water.

I don't think it's weird if it's innocent.

But then that whole culture shock thing definitely leaves the door open for questions.

yeah, have you seen US porno movies..the women are never completely naked..they always wearing shoes :confused:
and they always suck :D

Shoes??? You sure you're not into some weird kind of fetish? :eek:

Shoes??? You sure you're not into some weird kind of fetish? :eek: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :mad:

i meant footwear...like high heels, boots , etc

:mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :mad:

i meant footwear...like high heels, boots , etc

Americans are strange...
Why is it important that they wear shoes? I know I normally don't in bed.