NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you? Don't you? Why?

All I ever did really was Hashish. I have next to zero knowledge about it, but when people offer, I accept...haven't done it in an age though.

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

I guess Crack is really something else, and Heroin is no good because you can overdose so easily, and the needles often transmit Aids.
Marihuana (spelling?) is really not a problem, and I don't know about Magic Mushrooms (they seem to be pretty popular in the UK these days...)

War on Drugs???

Hmmm, if you consider drugs a bad thing, then it's probably good to stop their use. I don't think you can stop supply though. I reckon they would have to attack demand, do education campaigns and the like, cuz as long as anyone would pay for it, someone will supply it, no matter how many people you throw into jail.

So how to address the issue?

If you ask me, you'd legalise soft drugs like Marihuana, sell them in stores with licence, like Alcohol. Hard drugs should probably be provided in state-run centres for those that need them. Free of cost. You'd make the whole process a lot safer, no overdosing, no Aids, and they could keep a tab on whether you can keep your life together and help if necessary.
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Seems to me like drugs is the one issue were most people here think alike, be they libertarian or socialist. Maybe it's because so many of us are young people...
So what do you think?

Leave them as illegal as they are, but strike at the sources of the problem rather than just jailing addicts.

Drugs are bad my old friends did the drugs i did not
War on Drugs is good
Indonesia has the right idea
Ban them all especially Herbal pills/Party pills
We need another World War!

Alcohol is not a Drug!

Leave them as illegal as they are, but strike at the sources of the problem rather than just jailing addicts.

When you talk about striking at the sources of the problem are you talking about the general disillusionment with the system that leads to drug abuse or are you talking about wiping out the rainforests in order to destroy a plant that has been in existence since the stone age?

Some drugs are fun sometimes. Mushrooms and hash is all I've had. We need better education about these things, I reckon. Also, some serious studies before anything's legal status is changed.

Also, mushies are legal (and ought to stay that way), but I don't know for how much longer. Government's pushed/ is trying to push some bill through.

Drugs are bad my old friends did the drugs i did not
War on Drugs is good
Indonesia has the right idea
Ban them all especially Herbal pills/Party pills
We need another World War!

Alcohol is not a Drug!

Well done! :p

Alcohol is not a Drug!

Why not? Please elucidate.

To find the best view on this subject, look at the people in treatment for each of the drugs, and listen to the stories the people tell. Pot addicts will tell of fun times, munchies, and near minimum wage jobs. No harm done there cuz we all need people to bag our groceries. Crack addicts eventually own nothing, get sick easily, lose thier teeth, have stolen from virtually ev eryone they know, and have sacrificed every ounce of self esteem in persuit of thier next hit. Cocaine addicts will tell stories of potential success, marred with extreme highs and lows, disfunctional relationships, and eventual medical and financial problems. Peeps that use party drugs are typically people that could be diagnosed with any number of psychological problems. This is because of the escapist nature of the drug, people want to escape thier inhibitions and reality in search of a good time. The consequence of this is sad tho, as these drugs typically destroy mood regulation centers in the brain, making real life less and less tolerable. Depression, anxiety, and loss of memory are the long term rewards of party drugs like xtacy.
The drugs themselves arent the problem, its the reason people use them in the first place. If you lead a good life, and smoke a joint every couple of weeks or at maby a special occasion, then you should be fine. If you cant handle the day you've been having and feel you NEED something to take off the edge, then you have a problem.
To fix the probl;em we need to develop drugs that counter the effects of the bad drugs, in that if someone cant get high off of crack, thier motivation to use it goes away. Also drastically increase the penalty for doing illegal acts while on drugs. Drug users dont respect law, but they do respect fear.

Do you? Don't you? Why?

I do.
Other than the blatantly obvious like alcohol, caffeine and nicotine, the last roll call was: hash; skunk (if we're differentiating, even though it's essentially the same drug); shrooms; E; MDMA; ketamine; dexedrine; speed; base; 2CI (what's that?! http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ci/2ci.shtml); cocaine; amyl nitrate (if that even counts)..

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

Many. But how do you define 'bad'? I'll categorise them into personal and general.

PERSONAL:
I think amphetamines like speed, base and the like are filthy, have scary side effects, and mess you up a bit too much, health-wise. They also make you more aggressive, which puts it in my disapproval category alongside alcohol. Cocaine is too addictive, and the type of person who takes it is just too much of an asshole really. Then it turns them into a bigger asshole with more to say (usually about themselves). Yeah, great, cheers.. Ketamine, although fun, just rots through your brain, so I hear; and also has a bit of a filthy feeling about it.

GENERAL:
Obviously there's opiates like herion, methadone, morphine, and opium, which are too destructive to one's personal life, due to their addictiveness, and the mindset one adopts when in the habit. Crack turns you into a self-centred infant like Pete Doherty. No thanks.

War on Drugs???

I think we have our hands tied with too many wars already, frankly. Other than with amphetamine or alcohol, with most drugs you're just harming yourself, which is a personal choice to which we all have the right. I am totally against the idea that we humans are stupid and need a nanny-state to tell us what is and isn't good for us. We know! We make the decision to slightly harm ourselves every day with cigarettes, coffee and booze. (So why are they allowed, then? Well, we have this thing we call tax..) If all drugs were legalised and taxed tomorrow, the UK economy would profit to the tune of something like £12 billion. There aren't any drugs I'd want to totally stamp out (except, perhaps, herion and crack, for the above reasons), but cannabis should definitely be legal. Follow Holland's example, hardly anyone smokes weed there now, it's mostly tourists..

So how to address the issue?

If not legalise, then at least decriminalise most drugs. Psychedelics only harm the user. Cannabis only harms the user (and even that is under debate). Etc.. Once decriminalised you'd be surprised at how quickly they'll lose their attraction. Plus, if you really must, tax 'em! No more goverment whining about how skint we are. Hey, another £12 billion would sort the NHS out.

Do you? Don't you? Why?

No, because I don't feel like poisoning my body(thats why I don't do alcohol or tabacco).

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

Cocaine, Crack, Herion, and many more. A few aren't that bad(yet still not good for ye) like Marijuana, but drugs just aren't a good thing. Take 'em if you want, but I'd rather live a long, healthy, successfull life where I am fully in control of my mind.

War on Drugs???

It's a good idea. Not just because it will clear loads of REALLY harmful drugs off the market, but it will also take down those Colombian drug dealers. They are some of the most ruthless men on the planet, and having them make millions while our population gets stoned and then jumps to their death because they think they can fly isn't a great thing.

So how to address the issue?

Education, obviously. Of course, there will still be some drug users, so I guess you can legalise drugs like Marijuana(yet only for those over 21 and only for PRIVATE HOME USE). However, the "hard" drugs like Cocaine should be still be banned, unless needed for medical purposes. Then the drugs can be sealed up tight in government clinics who will give out the drugs only if you have a certified perscription. The ones that have little or no health value should still be considered "No-no"s.

I smoke weed, but only socially. Anything you have to inject into yourself is seriously bad news. Heroin quickly destroys your immune system, though if you are able to stay permanently high then it can supplant the system. Don't take pills if you don't know what you're doing.I don't know about crack, but sticking money up your nose will seriously damage your wealth, and remember what happened to that coke-head celeb woman. THE BRIDGE OF HER FUCKING NOSE FELL OUT. Don't take loads, don't do skunk (It's strong, and you get a different high, but it's much worse on the way down). Natural is good, but smoke in moderation. Smoke weed, not solid, as solid is cut with tranquilisers and is much harsher on the throat.

And never smoke your own if you can help it.

...Colombian drug dealers...
Care to elaborate?
Aren't they entrepreneurial spirits?
As I said, if someone demands it, someone will supply it. You could only replace them with other producers.

Do you? Don't you? Why?

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

I guess Crack is really something else, and Heroin is no good because you can overdose so easily, and the needles often transmit Aids.
Marihuana (spelling?) is really not a problem, and I don't know about Magic Mushrooms (they seem to be pretty popular in the UK these days...)

There are loads of different drugs. You can OD on many more drugs than heroin. Heroin isn't the only drug in which people use needles either.

War on Drugs???

Hmmm, if you consider drugs a bad thing, then it's probably good to stop their use. I don't think you can stop supply though. I reckon they would have to attack demand, do education campaigns and the like, cuz as long as anyone would pay for it, someone will supply it, no matter how many people you throw into jail.

You can't stop supply. It has to be on the demand side, however drug education is nearly useless in my opinion. The only thing to do, is not THROW THEM IN JAIL, but get them into treatment. It's a medical issue, not a legal issue.


So how to address the issue?

If you ask me, you'd legalise soft drugs like Marihuana, sell them in stores with licence, like Alcohol. Hard drugs should probably be provided in state-run centres for those that need them. Free of cost. You'd make the whole process a lot safer, no overdosing, no Aids, and they could keep a tab on whether you can keep your life together and help if necessary.

Giving heroin, coke, meth, and those type of drugs free is ridiculous. You'll have half the country addicted. The cost of something like that would be insane, not to mention, no addict would live in a state run center or have their supply monitored. You'd have people getting their state run dope, and then getting more on the street.

Besides, it's economically impossible. Think about it... The cost of a state run center would be impossibly high. Not doable. It just couldn't happen.

Where I live drugs are illegal. Therefore I won't tell you if I do them or not... (I can already hear you saying, "What is that guy taking?";))

The main bad thing about drugs is that one of their side effects is megalomania.






Oops, shouldn't have said that... *Runs away*

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Do you? Don't you? Why?


War on Drugs???

It's a good idea. Not just because it will clear loads of REALLY harmful drugs off the market, but it will also take down those Colombian drug dealers. They are some of the most ruthless men on the planet, and having them make millions while our population gets stoned and then jumps to their death because they think they can fly isn't a great thing.



The United States has provided more than $3 billion in aid during the past four years to help Colombia battle leftist rebels and the drug trafficking that fuels a 40-year-old insurgency. Outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups also are in the fray, battling rebels while committing massacres, trafficking drugs and carrying out kidnappings and extortion. U.S. law allows as many as 800 U.S. troops in Colombia to train Colombian armed forces and provide logistical support. It also allows up to 600 American government contractors in the country.
On March 29, 2005 five U.S. soldiers were arrested after 35 pounds of cocaine was found aboard a U.S. military plane that flew to El Paso, Texas, from the Apiay air base east of Bogota.

Do you? Don't you? Why?
I used to. It was great fun. Tried a lot of them. The only one I ever became addicted to was tobacco. Talk about the real gareway drug.


Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?
We should legalize all of them. Regulate the purity, provide clean needles and tax the crap out of it to provide rehab for those who want it. Treat them the same way alchohol with regards to being under the influence.


War on Drugs???
Stupid waste of time, resources and lives. Chuck the whole thing.


So how to address the issue?
Legalisation. The government has no business telling me what I can do with my body. What next, random cholesterol tests?

On February 10, 1986, Robert Owen wrote Oliver North regarding a plane being used to carry "humanitarian aid" to the contras that was previously used to transport drugs. The plane belongs to the Miami-based company Vortex, which is run by Michael Palmer, one of the largest marijuana traffickers in the United States. Despite Palmer's long history of drug smuggling, which would soon lead to a Michigan indictment on drug charges, Palmer receives over $300,000.00 from the Nicaraguan Humanitarian Aid Office (NHAO) -- an office overseen by Oliver North, Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Elliott Abrams, and CIA officer Alan Fiers -- to ferry supplies to the contras.

Do you? Don't you? Why?

1 - Take 'em if you want, but I'd rather live a long, healthy, successfull life where I am fully in control of my mind.

2....it will also take down those Colombian drug dealers. They are some of the most ruthless men on the planet, and having them make millions...

3 Then the drugs can be sealed up tight in government clinics who will give out the drugs only if you have a certified perscription. The ones that have little or no health value should still be considered "No-no"s.

1 - Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Just because you don't take drugs means your life will read like the end chapter of an Anthony Robbins book. There are likely to be more successful, older and healthier people than you who have taken recreational drugs at some stage, or maybe quite a bit. Likewise, there are those who have never touched drugs who regularly lose whatever little control of their minds they had in the first place. Straight people get paranoid, too, even lazy. The irony is delicious, but I commend your libertarian instincts. And whether you use drugs or not, you're always stuck with your own mind.

2 - The Colombian drug dealers are mere go-betweens. Established criminal networks in the United States, without whom these Colombians go-betweens would be legally, politically and commercially stranded, make a higher margin from their transactions.

ECNs here in Australia make most of their money from drugs. Interestingly, they have counted some politicians, state and federal police detectives of any level of rank, state police commissioners, barristers, mining and agricultural executives, sports stars, airline employees and bank directors amongst their members. Prohibition has led to unrivalled profit margins and corruption.

The DEA says ECNs in Europe are moving away from trafficking ecstasy, towards cocaine, since the margin is much greater. Is this true in the UK? Are the XTC producers benevolent mad scientists trying to confound ECNs?

A lot of ECN players connected to Dutch XTC manufacturers (80% of world supply) are Dominican and Israeli. Urban legend says:

*some Mossad operatives in the US fund their espionage projects by selling speed and XTC
*Iranians, who have mysteriously been allowed to overstay their tourist visas by ten years or more in Japan, after that government had been granted special oil concessions by the Iranian govt after Gulf War 1, are the Yakuza's foot soldiers in the drug trade. They sell hash, XTC, and crystal meth which comes from the Yak's links with North Korean meth labs, which pre-date WW2.

3 - According to our laws the perceived benefits (medical) of pharmaceutical drugs usually outweigh their potential risks. From time to time certain drugs, like Vioxx, are introduced to the market but prove to carry lethal risk. But with a drug like ecstasy, its inconsiderable medical risks (the most serious of which is perhaps dehydration) are seen to outweigh the perceived benefits (recreation).

This year over 2 million (mostly well-educated, employed, remote from social welfare services) Americans decided that the benefits of recreationally using MDMA outweighed the perceived risks. More than 1.1 million Australians have taken XTC (7.4% of the total population), which makes prevalence of use here the highest in the world.

In consumer societies, people willingly pay for sensual gratification and psychosomatic novelty. Drugs sell themselves. That's why even natural social stigmas will only restore reasonable levels of use, and not completely root them out of the culture.

Some people will destroy themselves with the fatal lack of imagination which leads them down the path of addiction. But this process is not unique to recreational drugs. It is part of a greater malady.

BTW, one of my siblings, who is a TV news director, just broke a case in a North Eastern Australian city where two American Navy sailors, and a third man, a Canadian who was a native of - you guessed it- Iran, smuggled 11kgs of crystal meth off a US warship. The warship came here via Okinawa. So the North Koreans made the shabu, sold it to the Yakuza, some US soldiers got paid maybe $20,000 to hide it on their ship and pass it on to a Canadian/Iranian middleman who wanted to sell it on to a big, highly liquid Aussie distributor (who can source tens of millions of dollars). My sibling was actually on the warship when a call came via mobile, confirming the scoop. The funny thing is, all the media were searched as they went on!

On July 28, 1988, two DEA agents testified before the House Subcommittee on Crime regarding a sting operation conducted against the Medellin Cartel. The two agents said that in 1985 Oliver North had wanted to take $1.5 million in Cartel bribe money that was carried by a DEA informant and give it to the contras. DEA officials rejected the idea. The Kerry Committee report concluded that "senior U.S. policy makers were not immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras' funding problems.

I own my body, not the government. I'm morally allowed to put anything into my body as long as I accept the responsibility of my actions. I must also be careful not to impose myself on others in the process of by stupid behavior.

Do you? Don't you? Why?


Although I've been offered just about everything under the sun, I've never partaken except for Absinthe (yes, it's alcohol, but it's illegal and it's NOT normal...) I don't, because I have enough vices already.

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

There is no good or bad drug. An object is an object.

They should ALL be legalized. Prohibition didn't work, gun control doesn't work (as the London knife problem shows)... people only want things that are banned all the more. If drugs were legalized (and people had to be **gasp** responsible for themselves), crime would plummet.

War on Drugs???

Given they are illegal in the US, it's necessary. However, it's as doomed as Prohibition. Too much money to be made.

So how to address the issue?

If you ask me, you'd legalise soft drugs like Marihuana, sell them in stores with licence, like Alcohol. Hard drugs should probably be provided in state-run centres for those that need them. Free of cost. You'd make the whole process a lot safer, no overdosing, no Aids, and they could keep a tab on whether you can keep your life together and help if necessary.

I agree with this, except with the hard drugs: they should also be sold at the corner drug store, just heavily taxed (like cigarettes are!).

The war on drugs is bad. The price increase of decreasing the supply makes drug dealing an attractive industry. In the process the U.S. losses money by wasting tax payer money and feeds the demand.

The war on drugs is bad. The price increase of decreasing the supply makes drug dealing an attractive industry. In the process the U.S. losses money by wasting tax payer money and feeds the demand.

If you take a look at some of the posts I've submitted you'll see the U.S. government is accomplishing exactly what it wants to achieve as far as the war on drugs is concerned.

Make them all legal...and as pure as possible. Let all the morons who'd rather smoke pot/inject heroin/snort coke/etc than deal with reality overdose and wipe themselves out. The gene pool will thank you.

(Yes, I'm in one of those moods today.)

Legalize the herbal stuff, it's not bad.

I've had pot, alcohol and the over the counter kinds of drugs, oh and caffiene...

The only thing I could see where total restriction is really good are stuff like heroin or pcp... pcp especially.

Make them all legal...and as pure as possible. Let all the morons who'd rather smoke pot/inject heroin/snort coke/etc than deal with reality overdose and wipe themselves out. The gene pool will thank you.

(Yes, I'm in one of those moods today.)
That's rather idiotic. That's like saying make all alcohol 100% so everyone who wants to escape their life with it will die of alcohol poisoning.

I smoke pot the same way I drink, recreationally.

Also, it's impossible to overdose on pot. You would need to have it distilled rediculously and shoot it up or something to even come close. The intoxication to overdose ratio for pot is something like 1:400,000, whereas for alcohol it's 1:9, so that if three drinks get you intoxicated, 27 will kill you. With pot, you would pass out or forget what you were trying to do long before reacing 400,000 times your intoxication rate. Not to mention that obtaining that much pot would probably require ownership of several grow-ops.

To find the best view on this subject, look at the people in treatment for each of the drugs, and listen to the stories the people tell. Pot addicts will tell of fun times, munchies, and near minimum wage jobs. No harm done there cuz we all need people to bag our groceries.

1. Crack addicts eventually own nothing, get sick easily, lose thier teeth, have stolen from virtually everyone they know, and have sacrificed every ounce of self esteem in persuit of thier next hit.

2. Cocaine addicts will tell stories of potential success, marred with extreme highs and lows, disfunctional relationships, and eventual medical and financial problems.

3. Peeps that use party drugs are typically people that could be diagnosed with any number of psychological problems. This is because of the escapist nature of the drug, people want to escape thier inhibitions and reality in search of a good time. The consequence of this is sad tho, as these drugs typically destroy mood regulation centers in the brain, making real life less and less tolerable. Depression, anxiety, and loss of memory are the long term rewards of party drugs like xtacy.

4. The drugs themselves arent the problem, its the reason people use them in the first place. If you lead a good life, and smoke a joint every couple of weeks or at maby a special occasion, then you should be fine. If you cant handle the day you've been having and feel you NEED something to take off the edge, then you have a problem.

6. To fix the problem we need to develop drugs that counter the effects of the bad drugs, in that if someone cant get high off of crack, thier motivation to use it goes away. Also drastically increase the penalty for doing illegal acts while on drugs.

5. Drug users dont respect law, but they do respect fear.


These are some SERIOUS generalizations. Some of this is correct. Some of it is NOT. Some drug addicts actually stick to their ethics while addicted. Not stealing, not losing their self esteem, not resorting to things that they wouldn't do if they weren't addicts. Many do end up doing something they consider morally wrong, but not all of them steal, etc.

1. Many crack addicts have not all lost their teeth or stolen from anyone, nor dumped their self esteem in search of their next hit.

2. Your take on cocaine is pretty accurate.

3. Party drugs, in most cases are just that. Fun for a night. Not any indication of neurosis or psychological issues at all. Neurotransmitter regulation isn't going to be destroyed by occassional use of party drugs.

4. Many people use drugs because of undiagnosed chemical imbalances in the brain. This is especially true of bipolar people, for example. They are unconsciously regulating their brain chemistry.

5. Fear of imprisonment or anything else will NOT stop an addict. They NEED the drug. They don't just WANT it.

6. There ARE drugs that counteract other drugs and alcohol so there is no effect, however, the addict isn't necessarily going to take them.

The only thing that works so far, is that the addict gets so far down that they WANT to help themselves and go for treatment. Being forced into treatment is useless. Most addicts and alcoholics end up going through treatment several times over a period of years before they get straight.

Another issue is needles. Most large cities have a needle exchange program, and I believe this is vital to reduce the spread of blood borne diseases.

This is a MEDICAL issue, not a LEGAL issue. Throwing addicts in jail is a waste of space and accomplishes nothing.

I don't much care what other people do with their own money, body and life. They can take all the drugs they want to. They should be legal, and regulated, to ensure that as few people die from.... whatever the hell goes wrong with them. I don't know, and don't care enough to find out.

However, I won't take any. I don't want to. And I have shown a tendancy to become increasingly hostile to those who encourage me to take them, "even just once so I know what it's like."

I don't try and make them stop, I expect the same courtesy in return.

Make them all legal...and as pure as possible. Let all the morons who'd rather smoke pot/inject heroin/snort coke/etc than deal with reality overdose and wipe themselves out. The gene pool will thank you.

(Yes, I'm in one of those moods today.)

That is a ridiculous statement. Many brilliant minds are addicts. The gene pool will NOT thank anyone.

Pot addicts will tell of fun times, munchies, and near minimum wage jobs. No harm done there cuz we all need people to bag our groceries.
Pot addicts is almost a contradiction in terms. It's like message board addicts. Neither is a physical addiction, only psychological.
Furthermore, I know a number of regular marijuana useres who are very productive, creative and make a shitload of money.

Pot addicts is almost a contradiction in terms. It's like message board addicts. Neither is a physical addiction, only psychological.
Furthermore, I know a number of regular marijuana useres who are very productive, creative and make a shitload of money.

I think Successoria was mostly referring to other drug users.

Pot should be legalized with the same restrictions as alcohol, with regard to driving under the influence, etc.

And it DOES cause lung cancer even more so than cigarettes.

Back in college, I knew several people who were always so stoned they couldn't get shit done, but I assume that was just a phase.

Really depends on how the user goes about their business. i got drunk every now again and it's cool

Do you? Don't you? Why?

I do. Why? Because I want to and it doesn't hurt anyone else. At least, it shouldn't. The way anti-drug legislation is set up, however, it probably does. You might not like alcohol and tobacco companies but they don't do drive-bys or firebombings...

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?[/B]

They're all bad, to varying degrees. NORML will tell you marijuana is the most begign substance on the planet, and the DEA will tel you that smoking it will damn you to coke and.or heroin addiction. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Regardless of how bad they are for us, they should all be legalized anyway. The fact of the matter is, we could outlaw all products and all social interation if we really wanted to protect $CITIZEN from everything that was bad for them. People should have the right to control the contents of their bodies and minds--because that's what you're talking about when you're talking about psychoactive drugs. You're talking about the contents of your mind. You'd figure it would be a pretty basic right.


War on Drugs???
It's a crock of shit and they will never win it. Ever.

The mottom line is, the 'demand' side of the drug trade could not be effectively 'attacked' unless we strapped us all to chairs and completely broke our psyches like in A Clockwork Orange. A certain amount of us will always be inclined to do drugs, regarldess of the ONDCP or DARE or any other anti-drug crusader institution you care to mention.

Ther are real dangers involved with drugs; I've seen a good many of them firsthand. But we don't and shouldn't need to learn this kind of shit from the government. The government's method of distributing information like this is: "This is your brain. This is your brain on heroin. Any questions?"

Genius.

So how to address the issue?
Legalize and regulate would be my party line, but the more specific nuances of just how to handle the transition and distribution of the product and the attendant information I can't get into since I can't address it from a postion of knowledge.

Do you? Don't you? Why?

Ethanol, mainly. I've also tried tobacco, marijuana (note the correct spelling), amphetamines, opiates, peyote, mescaline, and a few others, in various forms, some prescribed, some legal where I have lived.

Why? Various reasons. Sometimes for legit medical reasons - opiate pain killers. Sometimes to see what the big deal is for my own self. Sometimes just because I can. And sometimes just because someone else says I can't.

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

All should be legal.

War on Drugs???

Stupid, racist, hypocritical, and counterproductive.

So how to address the issue?

1) Drugs are a product like any other. If you provide a dangerous product (a bad trip), you should be brought up on criminal fraud.

2) Drugs do not excuse any behavior. In fact, they should be considered an agrivating factor.


Seems to me like drugs is the one issue were most people here think alike, be they libertarian or socialist. Maybe it's because so many of us are young people...
So what do you think?

Heh. Just like any other continually rehashed issue here, there is a wide variation of thought on it. There doesn't seem to be any special agreement on it, regardless of age.

Do you? Don't you? Why?

All I've done is Weed and MDMA (Ecstasy). The latter is brilliant, but not a good idea to take regularly.

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

All the highly addictive drugs are bad, but all of them should be legal. I have many long, detailed reasons for these, but this page (http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.shtml) explains them well.

War on Drugs???

Hopelessly impractical and morally wrong.

So how to address the issue?

Legalise them all and regulate them just like alcohol/tobacco.

Some drugs are fun sometimes. Mushrooms and hash is all I've had. We need better education about these things, I reckon.

This is one of the reasons for Legalisation. If they were legal, all the information would be easily accessed.

War on Drugs???

It's a good idea. Not just because it will clear loads of REALLY harmful drugs off the market, but it will also take down those Colombian drug dealers. They are some of the most ruthless men on the planet
Actually, wars on drugs do not successfully eliminate the drugs market, nor do they eliminate dealers. In fact, the war on drugs is the Colombian dealer's best friend. If drugs were legal, he would not even have a job as a gangster drug trafficker.

At the end of the day, people should be given the choice. I have taken dope, mushrooms, extacey and cocain. All bar one, extacey I found enjoyable.

I think a good book to read on this subjest is High Society by Ben Elton, it talks about the many benefits from legalising all drugs, it may only be an oppinion, but it does make sence.
Personally I support the legalisation of all drugs, because at the end of the day, it's choice, just because someting is Illegal it isnt going to stop people doing it, as we can see with drugs. With them being legalised the government will have fare greater controll over them, be able to set up safe areas for people to use to injet themselfs, with clean, safe needles, the money for such places would come not from a taxs rais, but from the taxes put upon the drugs. But I don't think that if this were to happen hat there should be just one tax for all drugs, i think the tax should vary from drug to drug, progressively getting higher the "worse" the drug is.

At present there is very little anyone can do about drugs, the huge importers have far to much power. If they were legalised then it would instantaneously remove this power from the importers. It would also drasticly reduce the ammount of HIV thats passed around, along with prostitution, because they wouldt be as dependant on the drug.

This is a fairly vauge chapter of mine explaining my oppinions. But I do suggest anyone with a large interest on this topic should read the above mentioned book.

As far as I can see, the prohibition of drugs is a waste of money, and causes more problems than it solves. Most of the harm from drugs comes from the illegality of it, since there can be no mass-research or illegal manufacturing.

Surely freeing the police, taxing drugs, and whatever ways the government uses to take our money and putting that money into rehab for those who want it would be better for those who want to quit, 'cause they can get proper help, and those who want to continue, for obvious reasons. The Taxman also gets money for health, education, defence etc. Everyone wins!

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, as someone's grandad might say...

For the record, i've smoked weed a few times, and enjoyed it :p (Apart from when mum caught me, going home was such a bad idea...)

Do you? Don't you? Why?

I do weed once a fortnight or so, sometimes more, sometimes less. Once I did white widow (weed with crack in) basically because I couldn't get any regular weed and i really wanted a smoke. It was good but I wouldn't do it again.

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

Any drug can be bad, it all depends on how often people do it.
Legalise everything, I don't think it's ethical to penalise people for deciding what they do with their own body. Ecstasy, Speed, LSD, Mushrooms, Weed to be sold like alcohol but harder drugs to be highly regulated so people can only do them under controlled conditions so they dont die.

War on Drugs???

A pile of bullshit.

So how to address the issue?

Discourage drug use (except for marijuana which should be promoted over alcohol) but allow people the freedom to do them

Alcohol is not a Drug!

how is it not? it changes the brians chemistry for a period of time as other drugs do, and it has permanent mental and physical detriments like other drugs...it is a drug-just because it's legal doesn't change the fact that it is a drug

Legalize weed, LSD, magic mushrooms, peyote, and ecstacy (although some safety precautions would have to be taken with ecstacy such as selling them in clubs with ample water access).

A few people seem to be misinformed about the dangers of lsd. With a little resaerch, with what would become common knowledge if it were legalized, lsd becomes very safe. It is less addictive than weed (read: not addictive at all) and can even have some very beneficial emotional and mental effects.

And it DOES cause lung cancer even more so than cigarettes.

Only if you smoke it and even then, only becuase it's unfiltered.

Originally Posted by Hyperslackovicznia
And it DOES cause lung cancer even more so than cigarettes.

That's one of those misleading propaganda messages. Sure, it could cause lung cancer, but only if you smoked it like people do cigarettes: a dozen per day, nearly every day, for 30 or so years. I doubt it.

The United States has provided more than $3 billion in aid during the past four years to help Colombia battle leftist rebels and the drug trafficking that fuels a 40-year-old insurgency. Outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups also are in the fray, battling rebels while committing massacres, trafficking drugs and carrying out kidnappings and extortion. U.S. law allows as many as 800 U.S. troops in Colombia to train Colombian armed forces and provide logistical support. It also allows up to 600 American government contractors in the country.
On March 29, 2005 five U.S. soldiers were arrested after 35 pounds of cocaine was found aboard a U.S. military plane that flew to El Paso, Texas, from the Apiay air base east of Bogota.

Hey, no army is perfect, buddy. Of course some people were smuggling drugs, it's human nature to try to get rich quick, no matter the consiquences.

On the topic of the civil war...

I know all about that. It is a really, really sad story. If our people actually cared about the civil war and WANTED to stop it, the international community could. However, the world is too pre-occupied with other areas *cough* the Midde East *cough*

The only thing I could see where total restriction is really good are stuff like heroin or pcp... pcp especially.
Why should they be banned? If anything, they are the drugs that should be first priority for legalisation. It's the dealers of heroin that are destroying the inner cities, it's not the pot dealers.

However, I won't take any. I don't want to. And I have shown a tendancy to become increasingly hostile to those who encourage me to take them, "even just once so I know what it's like."
Yeah, I find E-vangelists quite annoying.

Why should they be banned? If anything, they are the drugs that should be first priority for legalisation. It's the dealers of heroin that are destroying the inner cities, it's not the pot dealers.
Pcp should be banned for what it can do.. the whole psychotic tendencies thing... plus the immunity to pain... people on pcp have been known to take multiple bullets to the torso and keep running at someone. That's why it should be banned.

Pot is harmless, banning it is stupider than having alcohol banned.

Heroin is kinda iffy, but I guess if coccaine is legal in this hypothetical, then why not.

Legalize them all, it's no one's business but your own.

I've done more then a few drugs, and the list of one I'd never try is pretty short, crack and PCP.

Heroin can be used without getting addicted if you simply wait long enough in between doses (that's not to say I have any real interest in doing heroin, other opioids from medical sources are going to be safer then any street heroin).

So have fun with your drugs, just educate yourself before you try something.

And alcohol is not just a drug but an addictive one, so consume with moderation.

Pcp should be banned for what it can do.. the whole psychotic tendencies thing... plus the immunity to pain... people on pcp have been known to take multiple bullets to the torso and keep running at someone. That's why it should be banned.
Wow, I didn't know that about PCP. But you have merely explained why it is bad. Explain why it should be illegal. Keep in mind the fact that it is illegal does not stop people from buying and taking it.

Wow, I didn't know that about PCP. But you have merely explained why it is bad. Explain why it should be illegal. Keep in mind the fact that it is illegal does not stop people from buying and taking it.
As far as I know, it's not the easiest thing to come by and it should be kept that way. Being so horribly bad, putting it on a store's shelf will only allow more people access to it... and that can be bad for the aforementioned reasons.

Isn't it strange that we have so very few people against drugs and for huge penalties when you get caught with them?
Maybe this is the one holy grail topic that the extreme left and the extreme right can agree on!
Question remains why the US Government hates drugs so much...

Do you? Don't you? Why?

i did smoke weed daily, most of the day, up until about a month ago. i'm cutting back, but am starting up again this week, and will be going to Amsterdam in a month or so :)

other than that, i've only used salvia divinorum, but have almost tried peyote and mescaline (almost as in the other dude chickened out last minute :mad: )

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

weed good - legalise but only to govt. licenced private retailers. this is to remove the criminal element and stop weed being a 'gateway' drug.
hard drugs like heroin, cocaine, etc, should be illegal. others like LSD, speed and E should be decriminalised or at least made less illegal.

War on Drugs???

...is failing. resources should be pulled away from relatively harmless drugs like pot and some others, and piled into policing the supply - not posession - of hard drugs

So how to address the issue?

more drugs education in schools - and not just "drugs are bad, mmkay" like we got, i mean real info on the dangers, side effects, costs and physical effects so you really can make an informed decision.

arrestable drugs offences should be dealt with using rehabilitation rather than criminal sentences, particularly for addictive drugs like heroin.

Pcp should be banned for what it can do.. the whole psychotic tendencies thing... plus the immunity to pain... people on pcp have been known to take multiple bullets to the torso and keep running at someone. That's why it should be banned.

All of those effects are either completely false or highly exaggerated urban legends. AFAIK, there are very few, if any, actual incidences of any of those.

Mythology

More so than any other illegal substance, PCP has developed an elaborate mythological history surrounding itself, spread by sources such as D.A.R.E. PCP is said in this urban legend to cause such entirely realistic hallucinations, such as that of spiders on the users' faces, which in turn causes them to create deep lacerations in the attempt at removing them.

Another famous mention is in the movie Terminator, where the violent attacks by the character played by Arnold Schwarzenegger, including punching through a glass window without feeling it, are attributed to PCP by the police. However, dissociative anesthetics (including PCP) most typically induce closed eye hallucinations, though fully-formed open eye effects are occasionally reported. Studies of PCP users fail to substantiate a significant correlation between use of the drug and subsequent violent behavior in previously non-violent individuals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine#Mythology


"There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel. Both aspects concern the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive behavior. There are reports of increased aggressiveness and 'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take phencyclidine.

Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only extremely infrequently.

Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be less aggressive than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.

Khajawall et al. (1982) found no difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification. Thus, phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon, if it occurs at all."

cited references:

Wish, E.D. PCP and crime: just another illicit drug? _Natl Inst Drug Abuse Res Monogr Ser_ 64:174-189, 1986.

Brecher, M.; Wang, B.W.; Wong, H.; and Morgan, J.P. Phencyclidine and violence: clinical and legal issues. _J Clinical Psychopharmacology_ 8:397-401, 1988.

Khajawall, A.M.; Erickson, T.B.; and Simpson, G.M. Chronic phencyclidine abuse and physical assault. _Am J Psychiat_ 139:1604-1606, 1982.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MISC/pcpviol.htm
http://unreasonable.org/drug_policy/PCP.and.violence.html


And if drugs are banned due to their potential to cause psychopharmacological violence, ethanol would be the number one candidate.

other than that, i've only used salvia divinorum, but have almost tried peyote and mescaline (almost as in the other dude chickened out last minute :mad: )

On peyote and mescaline - I found them a bit over hyped, but I had only a small amount once.

And they are a good example of how screwed up Japan is. Marijuana is highly illegal and considered an exceedingly dangerous drug. But peyote and mescaline are legal and available in shops.

Legalize them all, it's no one's business but your own.

I've done more then a few drugs, and the list of one I'd never try is pretty short, crack and PCP.

Heroin can be used without getting addicted if you simply wait long enough in between doses (that's not to say I have any real interest in doing heroin, other opioids from medical sources are going to be safer then any street heroin).

So have fun with your drugs, just educate yourself before you try something.

And alcohol is not just a drug but an addictive one, so consume with moderation.

If your brain is wired for addiction, and people who become addicts do have different brain chemistry, it doens't matter how you moderate, you can try something once and become an addict immediately. You're speaking as a non addict. Medicinal opoids are just as addicting as heroin. OC, fentanyl, morphine, dilaudid. All stronger than heroin (except morphine). Doesn't matter. It hits the opoid receptors and the addict is hooked. Educating yourself means NOTHING if you're an addict. You don't have to do a drug many times to become addicted to it. Your brain is wired for it. Same with coke. It goes crazy on your dopamine receptors, and some people's brains are more receptive than others. An addict CAN'T wait between doses, even if they've only done it twice, people can become addicted right then and there. I know someone who became addicted to cocaine after using it ONE TIME. She started using every day after that. These situations are hardly rare.

Hey, no army is perfect, buddy. Of course some people were smuggling drugs, it's human nature to try to get rich quick, no matter the consiquences.

On the topic of the civil war...

I know all about that. It is a really, really sad story. If our people actually cared about the civil war and WANTED to stop it, the international community could. However, the world is too pre-occupied with other areas *cough* the Midde East *cough*

If when you say "our people" you are talking about the U.S. government, they're the ones who are prolonging the war.

If your brain is wired for addiction, and people who become addicts do have different brain chemistry, it doens't matter how you moderate, you can try something once and become an addict immediately. You're speaking as a non addict. Medicinal opoids are just as addicting as heroin. OC, fentanyl, morphine, dilaudid. All stronger than heroin (except morphine). Doesn't matter. It hits the opoid receptors and the addict is hooked. Educating yourself means NOTHING if you're an addict. You don't have to do a drug many times to become addicted to it. Your brain is wired for it. Same with coke. It goes crazy on your dopamine receptors, and some people's brains are more receptive than others. An addict CAN'T wait between doses, even if they've only done it twice, people can become addicted right then and there. I know someone who became addicted to cocaine after using it ONE TIME. She started using every day after that. These situations are hardly rare.

I know medical opioids are as addicting as heroin, I wasn't discussing their addictiveness, I was saying I would prefer to get my opioid high from a product I can control my dosage of.

I'd like to see some evidence of this 'addicted from doing it once' with cocaine, it sounds like hearsay, and I'd much prefer some scientific research on the topic.

Additionally addiction to amphetimines, cocaine, alcohol, tobacco ect is much different the addiction to opioids. Cocaine addictions are caused by the effects of the drug on your dopamine receptors, the brain becomes hardwired to rewarding itself for taking coke and thus you get addicted.

Heroin addiction is most similar to the effect steroids have on your body(more specfically, the nut-shrinking one). Heroin addiction is caused by the body ceasing to make endophines because there is already a constant stream of opioids in the body, and it feels there doesn't need to be more. (Much like how steroid use causes your boys to stop making natural testosterone, which according to urban legend, makes your nads shrink)

Thus, these two forms of addiction are quite different, both in their effects and in their onset.

Many drugs are alleged be psychologically addictive, people feel a need to go back and take more, but this is not the same as a physical addiction, it's more like how you can be addicted to watching Jerry Springer, or posting on message boards, or reading www.jesusblog.com, get it?

If when you say "our people" you are talking about the U.S. government, they're the ones who are prolonging the war.

By "our people" I meant the WORLD. The Europeans, the North Americans, the Latinos, the Arabs, the Chinese, etc, etc. If the world could pull together, then we could stop the war.

Also, we aren't prolonging it. We're just in it. Do you seriously think the rebels would win without our help? They may, but not for at least a few decades. If they come to power, Colombia will be nothing more than a drug-state, like Afghanistan used to be. Do you see how succesful Afghanistan was? For the sake of all of Latin America, and the world, the Colombian government needs to win(if the rebels win, not only will they uberly-screw up Colombia, the govenmnet will become rebels, and then the war will go on again for another half century).

Sorry for going off-topic :(

By "our people" I meant the WORLD. The Europeans, the North Americans, the Latinos, the Arabs, the Chinese, etc, etc. If the world could pull together, then we could stop the war.

Also, we aren't prolonging it. We're just in it. Do you seriously think the rebels would win without our help? They may, but not for at least a few decades. If they come to power, Colombia will be nothing more than a drug-state, like Afghanistan used to be. Do you see how succesful Afghanistan was? For the sake of all of Latin America, and the world, the Colombian government needs to win(if the rebels win, not only will they uberly-screw up Colombia, the govenmnet will become rebels, and then the war will go on again for another half century).

Sorry for going off-topic :(

I will look for the quote, but on a fact finding tour during Bill Clinton's first term in office, a military advisor declared that without American aid the rebels would take over Colombia in five years.

With regards to the rest of what you said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Look up history of FARC, AUC, ELN, School of the Americas, Mujahideen, Oliver North and the Iran Contra Scandal. Atleast look up a couple, then we can have an intelligent conversation.

1. If they come to power, Colombia will be nothing more than a drug-state, like Afghanistan used to be.
2. the govenmnet will become rebels, and then the war will go on again for another half century
3. Sorry for going off-topic

1. Aha, drug states. Another good one. Aren't they only farming drugs because other exports are so highly regulated, taxed and so on by Western Countries? Isn't that another case for legalising them?

2. Unlike now...

3. That's okay, drugs are the topic, drug related policies are part of it.

1. Aha, drug states. Another good one. Aren't they only farming drugs because other exports are so highly regulated, taxed and so on by Western Countries? Isn't that another case for legalising them?

2. Unlike now...

3. That's okay, drugs are the topic, drug related policies are part of it.

Saying that the Colombian government is run by rebels is the equivalent of saying George Bush is a beatnick.

Soft Drugs Are Already Legal Here In Holland (The Netherlands)...

Saying that the Colombian government is run by rebels is the equivalent of saying George Bush is a beatnick.

That's not what I meant. I meant the war will go on for 50 years no matter who is in charge right now.

Just as bootleggers were forced out of business in 1933 when Prohibition was repealed, making the sale of liquor legal (thus eliminating racketeering), the legalization of drugs would put drug dealers out of business. It would also guarantee government-approved quality, and the tax on drugs would provide an ongoing source of revenue for drug-education programs. An added plus: there would be far less crowding in our prisons due to drug-related crimes. It's something to consider.

That's not what I meant. I meant the war will go on for 50 years no matter who is in charge right now.

Are you familiar with what is going on in Colombia?

[QUOTE=Leonstein]Do you? Don't you? Why?

90% of people have or do smoke weed, the other 10% lie. HA!!! I guess I would have too say yes, but very rarely, and when I do it's Marijuana. If you asked me "back in the day", my answer would be drastically different.

Which ones are bad? Should we legalise any of them?

I guess all drugs are bad for you in some way, shape, or form. Tobbacco, Alcohol, Cocaine (any form), and Heroin are some of the "badder" drugs.

Legalize them all I say. Just because they are illegal, does not mean people cannot still get them. Where there is a will there is a way. I think we could get a better grip on the drug epidemic by making them all legal. It would cut down on our wasted tax dollars, eliminate alot of the crime that goes with the illegal drug trade, and also it would benefit the economy by serving as a taxable good, and by not having to spend a plethora of money on jailed offenders.

War on Drugs???

It's a farce, and a massive deception. Funny how some of the worst drugs (Tobbacco/Alcohol) are legal, but Marijuana is not??? Fact is, the big Corporations like DuPont pay alot of money to keep weed illegal. Alot of the things they produce could be made from hemp at a much cheaper cost to the consumer, and also be much more enviormentaly friendly.Too much to go into, so I'll leave it at that

So how to address the issue?

Good question, and one we all should ponder. There are lots of options, but the laws in place now simply do not work. All they do is fill our jail cells, which in return costs us taxpayers even more money.


I'm new and just wanted too chime in and say hello to everyone. Peace.

Are you familiar with what is going on in Colombia?

Not really. But in the end, if they can destroy FARC somehow, all they do is create Martyrs. New ones are gonna come and challenge them and so on.
Killing your enemies never actually solves the problem.

Not really. But in the end, if they can destroy FARC somehow, all they do is create Martyrs. New ones are gonna come and challenge them and so on.
Killing your enemies never actually solves the problem.

Agreed, but there is a way to end the war without having to destroy the FARC or the rainforests.

I was wondering if you guys that have knowledge about drugs could answer a question for me. Is weed addictive? I have heard it isn't "medically" addictive but you can be addictive to the high right? I have a few friends that do it and they seem to be able to keep themselves in check. They will do it like once a week or so or on a special occassion. If it isn't addictive then why is it illegal? The only drug that I have had experience with was Ambien (im not sure what the medical name is) and that was bad news. I got addicted to it hard and wasted a year of my life and ruined my GPA in school. Glad I got over that.

I was wondering if you guys that have knowledge about drugs could answer a question for me. Is weed addictive? I have heard it isn't "medically" addictive but you can be addictive to the high right? I have a few friends that do it and they seem to be able to keep themselves in check. They will do it like once a week or so or on a special occassion. If it isn't addictive then why is it illegal? The only drug that I have had experience with was Ambien (im not sure what the medical name is) and that was bad news. I got addicted to it hard and wasted a year of my life and ruined my GPA in school. Glad I got over that.

Observe the tolerance level of your friends. People say that it isn't addictive physically but it is definitely habit forming.

I was wondering if you guys that have knowledge about drugs could answer a question for me. Is weed addictive? I have heard it isn't "medically" addictive but you can be addictive to the high right? I have a few friends that do it and they seem to be able to keep themselves in check. They will do it like once a week or so or on a special occassion. If it isn't addictive then why is it illegal? The only drug that I have had experience with was Ambien (im not sure what the medical name is) and that was bad news. I got addicted to it hard and wasted a year of my life and ruined my GPA in school. Glad I got over that.
depends if you've got an addictive personality etc... it, in itself, is not addictive.

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/101.htm

This has all the answers to the legalization of drugs and many other questions you didn't think to ask.


AIN'T NOBODY'S BUSINESS IF YOU DO
The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Country

Peter McWilliams
Prelude Press
8159 Santa Monica Boulevard
Los Angeles, California 90046


© 1998 by Prelude Press. All rights reserved. ISBN: 0-931580-58-7

Editor: Jean Sedillos
Research: Chris GeRue
Chart design: Scott Ford, David Goldman
Desktop publishing: Jean Bolt

I know medical opioids are as addicting as heroin, I wasn't discussing their addictiveness, I was saying I would prefer to get my opioid high from a product I can control my dosage of.

I'd like to see some evidence of this 'addicted from doing it once' with cocaine, it sounds like hearsay, and I'd much prefer some scientific research on the topic.

Additionally addiction to amphetimines, cocaine, alcohol, tobacco ect is much different the addiction to opioids. Cocaine addictions are caused by the effects of the drug on your dopamine receptors, the brain becomes hardwired to rewarding itself for taking coke and thus you get addicted.

Heroin addiction is most similar to the effect steroids have on your body(more specfically, the nut-shrinking one). Heroin addiction is caused by the body ceasing to make endophines because there is already a constant stream of opioids in the body, and it feels there doesn't need to be more. (Much like how steroid use causes your boys to stop making natural testosterone, which according to urban legend, makes your nads shrink)

Thus, these two forms of addiction are quite different, both in their effects and in their onset.

Many drugs are alleged be psychologically addictive, people feel a need to go back and take more, but this is not the same as a physical addiction, it's more like how you can be addicted to watching Jerry Springer, or posting on message boards, or reading www.jesusblog.com, get it?

I did mention that cocaine affects dopamine receptors, and opiates affect opoid receptors. Stopping cocaine causes severe depression because the body has stopped making it's own dopamine as the brain has been inundated with it for so long from an outside source.

I know the addiction to opiates and cocaine are completely different.

I also know the difference between physical addiction, psychological addiction, and dependence...

Using cocaine once and becoming an addict immediately? I HAVE evidence.

I would bet I know more about drug addiction of all types than anyone on these boards. I'm rather an authority on just about all forms of drug addiction. Including synergizing and paradoxical reactions.

You can't tell me anything I don't already know. ;)

I did mention that cocaine affects dopamine receptors, and opiates affect opoid receptors. Stopping cocaine causes severe depression because the body has stopped making it's own dopamine as the brain has been inundated with it for so long from an outside source.

I know the addiction to opiates and cocaine are completely different.

I also know the difference between physical addiction, psychological addiction, and dependence...

Using cocaine once and becoming an addict immediately? I HAVE evidence.

I would bet I know more about drug addiction of all types than anyone on these boards. I'm rather an authority on just about all forms of drug addiction. Including synergizing and paradoxical reactions.

You can't tell me anything I don't already know. ;)

What do you know about basuco?

What do you know about basuco?

It's not purified coke paste, slopped on/in pot. Pre-crack, I guess you could say... The U.S. is beyond that now.

It's not purified coke paste, slopped on/in pot. Pre-crack, I guess you could say... The U.S. is beyond that now.

Do you have personal experience with it?

I'm a good girl, i've never done any drugs :)

I'm a good girl, i've never done any drugs :)

With a name like Lashie?

...Tease.

Do you have personal experience with it?

I will never under any circumstances (I think) answer any questions about any drugs I may have taken. Let's say I'm not like Lashie. I've been a naughty girl. ;) And leave it at that. Draw your own conclusion if you like. ;)

I will never under any circumstances (I think) answer any questions about any drugs I may have taken. Let's say I'm not like Lashie. I've been a naughty girl. ;) And leave it at that. Draw your own conclusion if you like. ;)

Okay, let me rephrase the question... Have you ever done any academic research on basuco that revealed the way it is consumed and what effect it has on the consumer?

Okay, let me rephrase the question... Have you ever done any academic research on basuco that revealed the way it is consumed and what effect it has on the consumer?

Yes, but it was a very long time ago. It's impure. I remember that. Yes, it's smoked, sometimes mixed in a joint...

Why do you do this stuff? If you do, (I don't know where the hell you live where you could get that garbage.), give it up and just smoke crack. At least it's further processed.

I hathn't done any illegal drugs.

All drugs should be illegal, by drug I mean illegal drugs not medicational. Why?, because it adds to corruption, people get rich off it (I hate rich people :mad: ), and other things. Also the Colombian drug makers are becoming rich.

Also they should raise the stakes on having illegal drugs, it should be a capital offense. Not only would that be a detorrent, it will be a detorrent (I thought I had something else and I was too lazy to delete although this is more work.).

I hathn't done any illegal drugs.

All drugs should be illegal, by drug I mean illegal drugs not medicational. Why?, because it adds to corruption, people get rich off it (I hate rich people :mad: ), and other things. Also the Colombian drug makers are becoming rich.

Also they should raise the stakes on having illegal drugs, it should be a capital offense. Not only would that be a detorrent, it will be a detorrent (I thought I had something else and I was too lazy to delete although this is more work.).

After reading your post, I'm convinced you're on loads of acid...

Prescription drugs are abused and people become seriously addicted to them. It's as serious as illegal drugs. And prescription drugs aren't necessarily "soft" drugs. I don't even know what a "soft" drug is. People use it to refer to pot. I say a soft drug is one that is mushy. :p

Post later when you're done tripping. ;)

I don't do anything really illegal. I'm such a lightweight. I don't drink much, and I use prescription painkillers (Vicodin's nice) at times. I do a little NyQuill and over-the-counter stuff. I might go a little bit more than the directed dose. It's a nice little high. I don't want to get really fucked up or anything. I know, I'm a loser.

I have no problem with marijuana personally. A lot of experts say it's safer than alcohol or cigarettes. I wouldn't like cocaine or heroin or crack or anything like that being legal, though.

And of course, I'm for rehabilitation rather than incarceration. And I don't think drug dealers are that evil. People are always blaming the pusher (typical), and they generally don't know how the gangs are run.

Wait a minute; whoa. A capital offense. Rape isn't even a capital offense. Are you serious?

I don't do anything really illegal. I'm such a lightweight. I don't drink much, and I use prescription painkillers (Vicodin's nice) at times. I do a little NyQuill and over-the-counter stuff. I might go a little bit more than the directed dose. It's a nice little high. I don't want to get really fucked up or anything. I know, I'm a loser.

I have no problem with marijuana personally. A lot of experts say it's safer than alcohol or cigarettes. I wouldn't like cocaine or heroin or crack or anything like that being legal, though.

And of course, I'm for rehabilitation rather than incarceration. And I don't think drug dealers are that evil. People are always blaming the pusher (typical), and they generally don't know how the gangs are run.

Wait a minute; whoa. A capital offense. Rape isn't even a capital offense. Are you serious?

You make a very good point. Stop blaming the supplier. The user is responsible for taking the drug. Even when they are in a state where they can't think, it is not the fault of the supplier.

It's simple economics, where there is demand, there will be supply.

Note: If you like Vicodin, try OxyContin or Dilaudid :p IV Dilauded or Morphine is heaven... I have had to get it in the ER for SEVERE migraines that didn't react to my usual medication. IV hospital narcotics are not that different from heroin or opium depending on the dose. Just pure and you don't have to worry about an icky cut.

Just a little clarification on my first post on this subject. It has been stated that I made generalizations about the specific types of people that use the alotted drug. Guilty as charged. As with any circumstance, ther will be those people that can survive or even thrive in any given circumstance. So you know creative rich people that are die hard pot smokers. Cool, but can everyone do that? Or are most habitual drug users running at not the potential they could be? Thats the point I was making. In addidtion, while the live and let live attitude toward drugs bieng legalized and the my body my right stand are excellent in idealism, they dont work in practice. Any form of mood altering suibstance MAY make a person do something out of character, and there Will be an outcome of some kind. Statistics and common sense show that when a person doesnt have thier normal frame of mind with them , then the outcome is typically negative. Heres some examples:
Person goes out drinking, wakes up next day realizing that they have had sex with someone they normally wouldnt have, (if I had a dollar for every time I'v done this)
Any drunk driving statistic.
Person misses interview, class, event, because they were enjoying a phatt blunt.
Person misses an entire day because they havent slept in 48 to 72 hours, then collapses.
Person goes missing after a night on the town, someone saw them leave with someone friends have never seen before, they tried to tell the person, but person wouldnt listen. Next stop..morgue.
Once successful person ends up way over thier head in debt, owes everyone they know money, and has no intention of paying any of it back, squanders a lifetime of effort in less than 2 years just to get that first feeling back.

If you can match any of these examples to thier drug then you know what i'm talking about.

One could say, so what? They are only hurting themselves. It's their bodies.
In most cases I'd agree. But if anyone in my family were to be crippled or killed by someone under the influence of drugs, then it would be considered a public service to have them removed...ill leave that alone. In short, if all people had the caopacity to maintain thier existance without negative effects on others then this would not be an issue. But most people are too weak, and the drugs are too strong to maintain control. That is the issue.

Sagir, Emperor of Successoria
-----------------------------
Play the game, dont let it play you.

You make a very good point. Stop blaming the supplier. The user is responsible for taking the drug. Even when they are in a state where they can't think, it is not the fault of the supplier.

It's simple economics, where there is demand, there will be supply.

Note: If you like Vicodin, try OxyContin or Dilaudid :p IV Dilauded or Morphine is heaven... I have had to get it in the ER for SEVERE migraines that didn't react to my usual medication. IV hospital narcotics are not that different from heroin or opium depending on the dose. Just pure and you don't have to worry about an icky cut.

Thanks.

I never tried any of those things you stated. I'm not going to go asking for it either, man. I have an ingrown toenail. It's my second time, so I have to get the infection permanently killed on the 28th. I'm gonna need something good then. Now I'm taking Ibuprofren (sp?) three at a time. Yesterday, I got the initial procedure (energency surgery). I didn't get any numbing or drugs or anything, and it hurt. But it was totally worth it, because it felt a million times better. My mom said she couldn't have done that, but I doubt it. It wasn't that bad. By the way, do those IV hospital narcotics make you constipated like heroin? I saw most of Trainspotting, and after hearing that, I decided I'd never do heroin. Not to be gross or anything.

Okay, let me rephrase the question... Have you ever done any academic research on basuco that revealed the way it is consumed and what effect it has on the consumer?

I have not done academic research on that drug, it isn't interesting to me. (I may have read a bit about it years ago, but it's moot now. However, I have done academic, (and LOTS OF IT) research on most other drugs.

I think basuco research isn't that important. No one uses it here. What a particular rare impure drug that hasn't been processed that extra step does, doesn't interest me and isn't that relavent. I would think it almost impossible to find someone who uses it, when it's processed into crack now.

With a name like Lashie?

...Tease.

I was bein serious... :rolleyes: my name comes from fluttering my eyelashes all the time when i get mad, or embarrassed, or roll my eyes... :D

a quick question: what exactly is legal in the netherlands/amsterdam?

weed, yes, but what else?

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/101.htm

This has all the answers to the legalization of drugs and many other questions you didn't think to ask.


AIN'T NOBODY'S BUSINESS IF YOU DO
The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Country

Peter McWilliams
Prelude Press
8159 Santa Monica Boulevard
Los Angeles, California 90046


© 1998 by Prelude Press. All rights reserved. ISBN: 0-931580-58-7

Editor: Jean Sedillos
Research: Chris GeRue
Chart design: Scott Ford, David Goldman
Desktop publishing: Jean Bolt
I LOVE Peter McWilliams. I have that site bookmarked. Are you familiar with the details about his death?

Thanks.

I never tried any of those things you stated. I'm not going to go asking for it either, man. I have an ingrown toenail. It's my second time, so I have to get the infection permanently killed on the 28th. I'm gonna need something good then. Now I'm taking Ibuprofren (sp?) three at a time. Yesterday, I got the initial procedure (energency surgery). I didn't get any numbing or drugs or anything, and it hurt. But it was totally worth it, because it felt a million times better. My mom said she couldn't have done that, but I doubt it. It wasn't that bad. By the way, do those IV hospital narcotics make you constipated like heroin? I saw most of Trainspotting, and after hearing that, I decided I'd never do heroin. Not to be gross or anything.

All opioids can cause constipation, not just heroin.

a quick question: what exactly is legal in the netherlands/amsterdam?

weed, yes, but what else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

Wikipedia. ;)

Yes, but it was a very long time ago. It's impure. I remember that. Yes, it's smoked, sometimes mixed in a joint...

Why do you do this stuff? If you do, (I don't know where the hell you live where you could get that garbage.), give it up and just smoke crack. At least it's further processed.

I don't and never have used cocaine or a coca product (that includes coca cola). But I'm writing a thesis on the drug war that's going on in Colombia and was hoping to get the kind of information regarding basuco that's difficult to find in textbooks.

I hathn't done any illegal drugs.

All drugs should be illegal, by drug I mean illegal drugs not medicational. Why?, because it adds to corruption, people get rich off it (I hate rich people :mad: ), and other things. Also the Colombian drug makers are becoming rich.

Also they should raise the stakes on having illegal drugs, it should be a capital offense. Not only would that be a detorrent, it will be a detorrent (I thought I had something else and I was too lazy to delete although this is more work.).

Where do you draw the line between what is and isn't a medicinal drug? Cocaine was once perscribed by Sigmund Freud. Heroine was developed to cure American Civil War soldiers who were hooked on morphine. The coca leaf has been used as a herbal remedy by the indegenous people of the Andes for thousands of years.

In the late eighties Forbes (or Fortune) Magazine listed Pablo Escobar as the seventh richest man in the world. But he built his fortune on a trade that was initiated by the U.S. and after his death it is the CIA that continues to manipulate the flow of drugs into the U.S.

I was bein serious... :rolleyes: my name comes from fluttering my eyelashes all the time when i get mad, or embarrassed, or roll my eyes... :D

Fluttering lashes... super tease!

Fluttering lashes... super tease!

I can't help it... :rolleyes:

Fluttering lashes... super tease!

Tell me about it. I have to put up with her doing it. :sniper:

Tell me about it. I have to put up with her doing it. :sniper:
I'm sorry :(

I'm sorry :(

Don't be. It's one of the many things I love about you. :fluffle:

i haven't done drugs mainly because i have no idea were you get them. i would try pot but thats probabli it. i've tried alchol and tobacco (im underage) and tobacco i didn't like. alchol was ok.