NationStates Jolt Archive


Were the brothers right?

HaMalachi
13-06-2005, 06:32
In Genesis I found a story that made me laugh, but made sooo much sense at the same time.

Its the story of Dinah and the Shechemites.

Dinah, daughter of Jacob and Leah went out to visit with the women, while on the trip Shechem the local ruler saw her, kidnapped her and raped her.

He then talks about how much he loves her and wants her to be his wife, telling his father to tell Jacob that he wants her as a wife.

Jacob hears about it, but doesn't do anything right away because all the males were in the field at the moment

Well, the sons get word about it, and come in from the fields while Shechem's father is talking to Jacob. He asks that Dinah becomes wife to his son and that they intermerry amongst the two peoples to become one people, and put all this bad stuff behind them.

Shechem then tells the brothers to name the price that he may be redeemed for his deeds, asking them to name a price for the marriage, no matter the cost, as long as he still marries Dinah.

So the brothers, still pissed off about what had happened to their sister respond with no, can't do it because they can't marry any people that the males are not circumsized. They stated that the only way they would allow the marriage to happen was that every male from the region had to be circumsized.

Shechem agrees and goes home to tell all the males. They all agree with their ruler and they all get circumsized.

3 days later, while the men were still in the pain of what they had done, two of Jacob's sons crept down and slaughter all the males, put Shechem to the blade and took Dinah home.

Jacob heard about it and told them they shouldn't have done such a thing, that now war could come down upon their house and that he didn't think they could win such a war if the other regions banned against him. The son's simply stated...

"Should he have treated our sister like a prostitute?"

I had to agree, I would be pretty upset if someone had done that to my sister. I don't think I would have taken it to the extreme as they did, but at the same time, maybe. If they had said no, then Shechem would have made war, costing lives on both sides, simply because he couldn't control himself with a woman. So I guess it saved bloodshed this way. I would have at the very least taken Shechem down.
Salvondia
13-06-2005, 06:35
Care to list chapter and verse numbers?
Evil Arch Conservative
13-06-2005, 06:52
Interesting question. Should you let your sister be a prostitute or should you defend her dignity but be forced to fight or flee in the process? It seems that you would be obliged to save your sister, but you also have to think about the toll that war would take. It comes down to what you value more: your sister's dignity or your brothers' lives. Do you value honor or life more? If you do save your sister then some of your people probably will die in the ensuing war. At least your sister wouldn't have been dead, but then that life might be a fate worse then death. Just the same, why should your family pay for her fate with their blood? Is there a line that you can cross when a situation becomes sufficently harsh that, when that line is crossed, you can ignore your obligations and still keep your honor intact? That would depend on the obligation, and that obligation would be decided by society.

Are you obligated to sacrifice a finite or infinite amount of lives to protect a family (tribe?) member's dignity? If the answer is inifinite, then does everyone conveniently forget their obligation when a sufficent number of lives have been lost? If the answer is finite (or if everyone conveniently forgets to protect the sister and stops fighting), then what is the number at which you have saved your honor and can hand the sister back over to her husband in exchange for peace?

I could probably examine this from quite a few different angles, and I'm sure each angle has an overarching philosophy, but I don't know enough about those philosophies (I don't even know their names) to give a good breakdown of your options and the consequences of each.

First, killing all those men would have been what started the war. Your first option says that killing them prevented the war. Second, I don't think your poll has enough options. What about an option saying something like "No, I don't think the ensuing war is worth saving her from prostitution... not that I'd be against killing all those guys if there weren't a possibility of war."? Being a pacifist who isn't willing to kill a few assholes to save your sister from being raped endlessly isn't the only reason you can say no
Chewbaccula
13-06-2005, 06:59
Definitly right, your sisters dignity here, if shes entittled to it, as most are, is definitely worth defending, even if it means some brothers die.
Life wouldnt be worth living, no matter how long it was, if you decided to be a coward instead and not defend her.
Undelia
13-06-2005, 07:09
Care to list chapter and verse numbers?

Its chapter 34 of Genesis.