NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, I have no desire to look at fat ugly naked people, but I wouldn't really give a damn if I happened to see one walking along the street. Running towards me, hell yeah, I'd be scared, but that's not the point. The point is, why does nudity cause outrage? It's like "we can't have people being naked, else our kids might find out what naked people look like". So I guess you want to ban mirrors too? And what's the deal with breasts? The shape is visible through clothes anyway, so the kids are bound to work out that they exist. And think about it this way: if enough fat ugly people go naked, good-looking people will start doing it too.

I never saw what the big deal was. I think it's a bunch of religious bullshit, really.

Now, I have no desire to look at fat ugly naked people, but I wouldn't really give a damn if I happened to see one walking along the street. Running towards me, hell yeah, I'd be scared, but that's not the point. The point is, why does nudity cause outrage? It's like "we can't have people being naked, else our kids might find out what naked people look like". So I guess you want to ban mirrors too? And what's the deal with breasts? The shape is visible through clothes anyway, so the kids are bound to work out that they exist. And think about it this way: if enough fat ugly people go naked, good-looking people will start doing it too.
In my opinion, it's a major flaw in society that public nudity is often considered synonymous with public shame/humiliation.

Adam and Eve, yo.

Adam and Eve, yo.

Sorry, I don't speak religious bullshit (or whatever the PC term is).

Sorry, I don't speak religious bullshit.

That's the spirit!

Sorry, I don't speak religious bullshit (or whatever the PC term is).

That's where the shame of nudity comes from in Christianity. Those two bastards eating the damn apple has screwed us into wearing clothes all the time.

That's where the shame of nudity comes from in Christianity. Those two bastards eating the damn apple has screwed us into wearing clothes all the time.
Oh, dear, what happens when we take a shower? *"God" smites shower takers everywhere.*

I'm no public nudist myself, but I've never had a problem with nudity. Public or otherwise. Look at the rest of the natural world- if we were supposed to have worn clothes, whether to fulfill some religous belief or for evolutionary reasons, depending on your school of thought, we'd have been born wearing t-shirts, jeans, and shoes. A huge percentage of the population sleep and walk around their own homes in their birthday suits, so why should it be so frowned upon in society?

I agree that we stifle the issue of nudity too much. Kids today are so mollycoddled and protected from everything it's ridiculous. But that is a rant for another day.

That's where the shame of nudity comes from in Christianity. Those two bastards eating the damn apple has screwed us into wearing clothes all the time.

Next time I stay in a hotel, I shall put the hidden bible in the toilet.

*They always hide those things in drawers...

That's where the shame of nudity comes from in Christianity. Those two bastards eating the damn apple has screwed us into wearing clothes all the time.

Unless I'm mistaken, that damn section doesn't even explain why it's bad to be naked. It just says that they realised it was bad because they ate an apple. If I wrote the bible it would say that they lived in siberia and had to wear clothes because they were dying of hypothermia. Then they would move to hawaii and live on the beach. Man, this sounds like a much better creation story already.

Unless I'm mistaken, that damn section doesn't even explain why it's bad to be naked. It just says that they realised it was bad because they ate an apple. If I wrote the bible it would say that they lived in siberia and had to wear clothes because they were dying of hypothermia. Then they would move to hawaii and live on the beach. Man, this sounds like a much better creation story already.

Yeah. More or less, because they ate the apple, being naked was bad. Solid logic, to be sure, but it IS where the cultural stigma comes from.

Unless I'm mistaken, that damn section doesn't even explain why it's bad to be naked. It just says that they realised it was bad because they ate an apple. If I wrote the bible it would say that they lived in siberia and had to wear clothes because they were dying of hypothermia. Then they would move to hawaii and live on the beach. Man, this sounds like a much better creation story already.

The Bible Mark Two, Part One: Adam And Eve Go To Eden Nudist Beach

Oh, dear, what happens when we take a shower? *"God" smites shower takers everywhere.*

How old are you?

*Gets naked*

*Gets shot dead by christian religious fundamentalists*

:rolleyes:

*Gets naked*

*Gets shot dead by christian religious fundamentalists*

:rolleyes:

WAH!?

*runs over to TPE's lifeless body*

Look what you've done to my little cable boy... What have you done to my little cable boy!?

*In A Religous Fundamentalist's Loft Window, Somewhere In America....*

:sniper: "Die Nudists!!!"

"Jimmy! Your pie's ready!"

"Hang on, Ma, I gots to kill me some more heathen skinflashers!"

That's where the shame of nudity comes from in Christianity. Those two bastards eating the damn apple has screwed us into wearing clothes all the time.
It's just not christianity, it's also the other religions as well. In the mid-east, for instance, they force woman to go out completely covered, except their eyes.

Once again, I, an admittedly religious fellow, will attempt to explain something in a purely secular way, because of the fact that not everyone shares my spiritual views and the fact that other societies besides the Hebrews had to have a reason for covering up. Here goes:

Thousands of years ago, human beings began leaving their warmer roots and heading into colder regions. They required clothing in these new regions to survive. Meanwhile, back in the warmer regions people began wearing clothes to protect themselves from insects, the ravages of the sun and harsh weather. Eventually, wearing clothes became ingrained in people’s minds. Also, what happened is that people began to see less and less of the opposite genders exposed bodies, thus creating a bit of a mystery to the whole affair, thus sexualizing the naked body. As societies began organizing into stricter family units, it was, of course, inevitable that certain displays would be discouraged, especially for married people, to preserve the foundation of society.

Well, hope I could help.

It's christianity's fault. Damn, that seems to be the answer to a lot of Why is this a problem? questions. Sad but true. Why are we insecure with our bodies, our sexuality? - Christianity. More specifically, when Christianity adopted the ideas of St. Augustin(pretty sure it was augustin), who said all sex was evil. Well, you won't see the sexual organs when your clothed. Another equally important reason is habit. It was neccesary for our distant ancestors to wear clothes, and in many areas today, it is necessary as well. When you do something long enough, it becomes habit, and to go the other way feels "weird." Now stretch that out over thousands of years of existance, and I'd say that habit has evolved into a societal commandment. No shoes, no shirt no service. And if your not wearing pants? You get arrested.

Meh, I don't mind clothes. They keep me warm in the winter and provide some protection from the sun in the summer.

If they made it legal to go completely naked in public tomorrow I wouldn't. I would wait for everyone else to do it long enough that nobody gave a damn anymore. The last thing I need is more creepy guys oggling me than I already get.

I'm reminded of that stupid business in America where Janet Jackson's breast was exposed. It was outrage. OMG a breast! Now we'll have to explain to the kids absolutely fuck all because they already new breasts existed. The only outrage should have been that they should have done it with an attractive pop star.

It's christianity's fault. Damn, that seems to be the answer to a lot of Why is this a problem? questions. Sad but true. Why are we insecure with our bodies, our sexuality? - Christianity. More specifically, when Christianity adopted the ideas of St. Augustin(pretty sure it was augustin), who said all sex was evil. Well, you won't see the sexual organs when your clothed. Another equally important reason is habit. It was neccesary for our distant ancestors to wear clothes, and in many areas today, it is necessary as well. When you do something long enough, it becomes habit, and to go the other way feels "weird." Now stretch that out over thousands of years of existance, and I'd say that habit has evolved into a societal commandment. No shoes, no shirt no service. And if your not wearing pants? You get arrested.

That's actually quite funny, as the man was a frequenter of orgies in Rome, his home city.

It's just not christianity, it's also the other religions as well. In the mid-east, for instance, they force woman to go out completely covered, except their eyes.
They share the same creation story though don't they?

It's all the jewish creation story.

And in those regions, you pretty much need clothes and veils and the like to protect you from the sand and sun.

Meh, I don't mind clothes. They keep me warm in the winter and provide some protection from the sun in the summer.

If they made it legal to go completely naked in public tomorrow I wouldn't. I would wait for everyone else to do it long enough that nobody gave a damn anymore. The last thing I need is more creepy guys oggling me than I already get.

I wouldn't be getting naked either, I just wouldn't go persecuting anyone who was.

Meh, I don't mind clothes. They keep me warm in the winter and provide some protection from the sun in the summer.

If they made it legal to go completely naked in public tomorrow I wouldn't. I would wait for everyone else to do it long enough that nobody gave a damn anymore. The last thing I need is more creepy guys oggling me than I already get.

*oggles*

I wouldn't be getting naked either, I just wouldn't go persecuting anyone who was.

Same here.

Thousands of years ago, human beings began leaving their warmer roots and heading into colder regions. They required clothing in these new regions to survive. Meanwhile, back in the warmer regions people began wearing clothes to protect themselves from insects, the ravages of the sun and harsh weather. Eventually, wearing clothes became ingrained in people’s minds. Also, what happened is that people began to see less and less of the opposite genders exposed bodies, thus creating a bit of a mystery to the whole affair, thus sexualizing the naked body. As societies began organizing into stricter family units, it was, of course, inevitable that certain displays would be discouraged, especially for married people, to preserve the foundation of society.


That's a very valid point you have there. What I'd like to ask is: do you think that in this day and age people should be persecuted for wanting to display their skin? No-one will be making it compulsory- I'm sure that enforcing public nudity in St. Peter's Square during November would be kind of hard. I know a couple who are practising "House Nudists" who recently got their home vandalised because of this. And they don't even practice their, for want of a better word, "hobby" in public.

*oggles*
You don't strike me as creepy, so go ahead.

No shoes, no shirt no service

I think that is more of a hygiene issue than a nudity one. ;)

That's a very valid point you have there. What I'd like to ask is: do you think that in this day and age people should be persecuted for wanting to display their skin? No-one will be making it compulsory- I'm sure that enforcing public nudity in St. Peter's Square during November would be kind of hard. I know a couple who are practising "House Nudists" who recently got their home vandalised because of this. And they don't even practice their, for want of a better word, "hobby" in public.
How did anybody know they were house nudists?

Were they suspicious of parties with blinds closed and no neighbours invited?

You don't strike me as creepy, so go ahead.

I'm not creepy, sweet!

*oggles*

*doesn't remember what Dakini looks like*

*oggles anyway*

How did anybody know they were house nudists?

Were they suspicious of parties with blinds closed and no neighbours invited?

No clue. Maybe they just told the wrong person or something? I only found out because they mentioned the incident to me.

That's a very valid point you have there. What I'd like to ask is: do you think that in this day and age people should be persecuted for wanting to display their skin? No-one will be making it compulsory- I'm sure that enforcing public nudity in St. Peter's Square during November would be kind of hard. I know a couple who are practising "House Nudists" who recently got their home vandalised because of this. And they don't even practice their, for want of a better word, "hobby" in public.

Frankly, I really couldn’t care less what people do on their private property as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. Though, I would appreciate a bit of warning so I, personally can avoid the area. ;) And to these vandalizers I would ask, Why? They are presumably protesting it for religious reasons, but then they go and cause property damage. Funny, I can’t recall Christ ever resorting to that. In fact he would probably be the first to condemn it. Just look at what he had to say about the pharoses (sp?).

Frankly, I really couldn’t care less what people do on their private property as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. Though, I would appreciate a bit of warning so I, personally can avoid the area. ;) And to these vandalizers I would ask, Why? They are presumably protesting it for religious reasons, but then they go and cause property damage. Funny, I can’t recall Christ ever resorting to that. In fact he would probably be the first to condemn it. Just look at what he had to say about the pharoses (sp?).

Who knows why idiots like that do such things? The psyche of the moronic is clouded in mystery.

Another question for everyone: if public nudity was made acceptable, would you ever wander round in the buff?

I s'pose I might, occasionally. I mean, on hot summers days it would be useful. But you'd never catch me parading my skin in the middle of the british winter.

You don't strike me as creepy, so go ahead.
I wish I wasn't creepy... :(

j/k lol

I bet I'm not the only one who didn't give a damn about Janet Jackson's breast thing.

I bet I'm not the only one who didn't give a damn about Janet Jackson's breast thing.
Damn right! Who cares?

In my humble opinion, the fact of clothing merely became evolutionary sound.
The function of clothes is to keep debris out, keep things that could get caught or damaged in, and to provide protection from the elements.

Humans have a unique and special ability: They are capable of donning and shedding their protective layer of 'fur' at will. This layer of 'fur' is actually clothing. It does not take months to remove it, nor does it create a horrific mess with each change. We are born without it because it is easier to put on externally produced protective garmants, and said protective garmants cannot grow with us.

Naturally, the 'shame' of nudity derived from the fact that at some points throughout human history, not wearing clothes would bring you to physical harm In the ice age: Hypothermia anyone? The Ice age lasted thousands and thousands of years. By the time humans were done developing, the instances of humanity existing in the places where they would eventually just happen to advance in culture and technology had already had the necessity of clothes hard-wired to the knowledge-base all of our learned intelligence comes from.

The negative reinforcement known as shame in reference to nudity was merely a tool implemented to make us want to wear clothes when we needed clothes. Ideally, if we were not vulnerable to extremes of heat and cold and had no worry of being damaged by our environments (Instance: The lunar colony in Isaac Asimov's The Gods Themselves, where all living areas were in pressurized climate-controlled sterile tunnels) we probably would walk around naked in public.

I hope this comes to answer many questions.

I bet I'm not the only one who didn't give a damn about Janet Jackson's breast thing.

I was more outraged by the quality of the half-time show itself. Put bluntly, it was awful. Now compare that to Paul McCartney’s beyond words performance at the next Super Bowl and you know they could have done better. Now that’s outrageous!

nor does it create a horrific mess with each change.


A look at most people's bedroom floors proves that theory wrong :p :D

In my humble opinion, the fact of clothing merely became evolutionary sound.
The function of clothes is to keep debris out, keep things that could get caught or damaged in, and to provide protection from the elements.

Humans have a unique and special ability: They are capable of donning and shedding their protective layer of 'fur' at will. This layer of 'fur' is actually clothing. It does not take months to remove it, nor does it create a horrific mess with each change. We are born without it because it is easier to put on externally produced protective garmants, and said protective garmants cannot grow with us.

Naturally, the 'shame' of nudity derived from the fact that at some points throughout human history, not wearing clothes would bring you to physical harm In the ice age: Hypothermia anyone? The Ice age lasted thousands and thousands of years. By the time humans were done developing, the instances of humanity existing in the places where they would eventually just happen to advance in culture and technology had already had the necessity of clothes hard-wired to the knowledge-base all of our learned intelligence comes from.

The negative reinforcement known as shame in reference to nudity was merely a tool implemented to make us want to wear clothes when we needed clothes. Ideally, if we were not vulnerable to extremes of heat and cold and had no worry of being damaged by our environments (Instance: The lunar colony in Isaac Asimov's The Gods Themselves, where all living areas were in pressurized climate-controlled sterile tunnels) we probably would walk around naked in public.

I hope this comes to answer many questions.
Actually, we don't have fur because our large brains put out a lot of heat. In order to cool ourselves, we evolved less and thinner body hair so we wouldn't overheat in Africa. The loss of fur necessitated dark skin to protect from the sun and then in nothern latitudes, the lighter skinned peoples domintated because they could more efficiently obtain vitamin D (which aids in fetal development) more easily from the sun than the darker skinned people.

Basically, we got rid of fur not to cover ourselves, but because we would overheat our brains with it. We add clothing for decorative, protective and heating purposes.

Actually, we don't have fur because our large brains put out a lot of heat. In order to cool ourselves, we evolved less and thinner body hair so we wouldn't overheat in Africa. The loss of fur necessitated dark skin to protect from the sun and then in nothern latitudes, the lighter skinned peoples domintated because they could more efficiently obtain vitamin D (which aids in fetal development) more easily from the sun than the darker skinned people.

Basically, we got rid of fur not to cover ourselves, but because we would overheat our brains with it. We add clothing for decorative, protective and heating purposes.

Wow, you learn something new every day. I never knew that was why biologically there's a difference between light and dark skin. I knew it had something to do with the local climate, but that's cleared it up!

Thanks, Dakini :)

Actually, we don't have fur because our large brains put out a lot of heat. In order to cool ourselves, we evolved less and thinner body hair so we wouldn't overheat in Africa. The loss of fur necessitated dark skin to protect from the sun and then in nothern latitudes, the lighter skinned peoples domintated because they could more efficiently obtain vitamin D (which aids in fetal development) more easily from the sun than the darker skinned people.

Basically, we got rid of fur not to cover ourselves, but because we would overheat our brains with it. We add clothing for decorative, protective and heating purposes.

Though I appreciate your response and acknowledge the sounding-validity of the rest of your statements, I do have some trouble believing the loss of fur to be a quality of heat distribution for the brain, seeing as one of the most vascular areas in the body, the scalp, still has its fur. Why would we be programmed to appreciate the presence of head-hair if it would be counter intuitive to this evolutionary process, and if indeed we did need to distribute and dispell heat, why don't we have long, thin vascular growths like rabbits do, as they radiate excess heat through their ears?

My understanding was that hair was more or less a place for dead cells to go.

More importantly, it's a comfort thing. Do whatever you want in your house, but I wouldn't feel comfortable without clothes on in public.

It doesn't really matter whether or not what I'm looking at is attractive or not, it would still be unnerving. Mostly, this is cultural norms coming out, but I don't see any need for change.

Besides, where I live, if you get sunburned 7 or 8 times, you've almost certainly got cancer, so clothing is good.

Though I appreciate your response and acknowledge the sounding-validity of the rest of your statements, I do have some trouble believing the loss of fur to be a quality of heat distribution for the brain, seeing as one of the most vascular areas in the body, the scalp, still has its fur. Why would we be programmed to appreciate the presence of head-hair if it would be counter intuitive to this evolutionary process, and if indeed we did need to distribute and dispell heat, why don't we have long, thin vascular growths like rabbits do, as they radiate excess heat through their ears?
I dunno, I read it in a science mag last year. It coudl be to prevent too much heat loss. Considering that even with hair, we lose 90% of our body heat through our heads... much of it is also lost through the armpits and groin which are also well covered by hair.

Also, seeing as we walk upright, the head is the part of our body that gets the most sun, so it needs the most protection...

I don't think all the blame should be placed on Christianity. You try walking around without clothes in the dead of winter, you'll see why people started doing it.

I don't think all the blame should be placed on Christianity. You try walking around without clothes in the dead of winter, you'll see why people started doing it.
There's one culture at the tip of south america (the part near the antarctic) that wears little to nothing... they've adapted to the tempratures.

There's one culture at the tip of south america (the part near the antarctic) that wears little to nothing... they've adapted to the tempratures.

I heard eskimos are known to take off clothes if it gets above 8°C

Yeah. The thing is, adults say it's "inappprpriot" for kids to see people naked, such as porn, etc. Then EVENTUALLY they will see that kind of stuff in school and then in there lives! Is it that children, young and teens, are cursed by God to not see a women with no bra on, yet 500,000 adults a day (random guess) see it in movies and clubs and in there own homes!? WHY THE CHILDREN!? *goes into feedle position and sucks thumb*

It's christianity's fault. Damn, that seems to be the answer to a lot of Why is this a problem? questions. Sad but true. Why are we insecure with our bodies, our sexuality? - Christianity. More specifically, when Christianity adopted the ideas of St. Augustin(pretty sure it was augustin), who said all sex was evil. Well, you won't see the sexual organs when your clothed. Another equally important reason is habit. It was neccesary for our distant ancestors to wear clothes, and in many areas today, it is necessary as well. When you do something long enough, it becomes habit, and to go the other way feels "weird." Now stretch that out over thousands of years of existance, and I'd say that habit has evolved into a societal commandment. No shoes, no shirt no service. And if your not wearing pants? You get arrested.
yeah too bad we cant be like those lucky jews/buddhists/hindus/sihks/ba'hais/moslems who dont have the constraints of christianity so they can go around nekkid all the time!


its bad enough having to worry about other people sneezed germs without having to worry about the dampness they leave on the bus seats! think of the poor germ phobics

its bad enough having to worry about other people sneezed germs without having to worry about the dampness they leave on the bus seats! think of the poor germ phobics

Phobias are best confronted.

Phobias are best confronted.
im not germ phobic but the thought of all those naked butts sitting on bus/subway seats gives me the creeps. we would all have to be required to bring along our own germ resistant towels to sit on.

Next time I stay in a hotel, I shall put the hidden bible in the toilet.

*They always hide those things in drawers...

There's no call for that. Doing that would greatly offend the little-known but large group of perfectly reasonable, nice christians.

However, if I wouldn't get arrested for it or freeze them off... I might show off bits my body a few times. Probably wouldn't be habitual.

i dont wanna risk my sight going...so i dont know if i want to sit through all the ugly, fat, people to get to the good looking ones....

I do have some trouble believing the loss of fur to be a quality of heat distribution for the brain, seeing as one of the most vascular areas in the body, the scalp, still has its fur.
If you look at people whose ancestors have long lived in hot sunny environments, you will often find they have dark kinky hair. The dark pigment in the hair absorbs the heat from the sunlight, and the kinkyness creates an insulating barrier to help prevent the heat reaching the scalp. A blonde persom from say, Norway, would have a lot more heat transmitted to their head.

This is one more reason why Kenya pisses on Norway.

Dumb: Ten couples get married in a private group ceremony in Key West. Completely naked.

Dumber: SOme local religious nuts protested the wedding.

*sigh*

As for shame of nudity being ingrained in people, I haven't noticed much nudity shame in Japan. It's quite normal to have a bath with your boss and coworkers. Usually the sexes don't mix, however.

The fuss about Janet Jackson's boob was quite interesting. After it happened I found a perfectly legal CD from the United States showing Janet Jackson's naked back. Does the skin of her boob have some sort of magical property that the skin of her back doesn't have? Is it the nipple that's the problem? If she had a big zit on her back that looked like a nipple, would that be legal? What about if she stuck two rubber nipples to her back?

I am quite sure clothing served a legitimate purpose besides warmth in order to become so popular. Let's not forget that before we "civilized" human creatures had the norms we are used to, we were... well... less civilized. The luxury of a considerate and polite society who enjoy (safely and comfortably) being naked among strangers is not typical for a society where strangers are potentially criminals . Sure some tribal cultures still go nude. I can hardly imagine how scarcely those "traditional" societies have to worry about sexual predators, unwanted attention for timid people, or even incestual relationships. My point in a nutshell is that it is not necessarily the religions of people that cause them to perpetuate the compulsory clothing choice so much as the fact that covering oneself, even with the flimsiest of cloth, gives a person a "layer of protection" from quite a few harms, whether they are real or imagined.

Nudity was made an offense the day Adam and Eve began to wear clothes... :headbang: I've never found an answer in the bible so why should I start looking for it now?? Religion is just another way to oppress people! And for that Guthenburg guy?? :sniper: PROBLEM SOLVED!!

I figure for environmental protection... Cold, heat, rain, sitting on something disgusting, sunburn, etc. This is a practical reason anyhoo... :)