NationStates Jolt Archive

All information requests and recruitment information can be found here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424949)

This thread is for comments about our new neoclassical party.

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Ribs were dry, fries lacked salt, Ketchup was made out of mustard seed. Bad service.

6.6847/10

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I'd have to say economically you should focus on low taxes, but generate enough welfare to give businesses a push to create a bigger job market. Pro-business policies also don't hurt, providing corporations pay as much taxes as small businesses (or small businesses pay no taxes). I'm pretty against social welfare, and I'd suggest you have none, since the moment you introduce it, there will be sentiment to raise the amounts paid to recipients. I'll decide if I want in based on what your economic policies are, but I like the fact that you recognize that a decline in morality is what causes society to go to shit.

The only area the Party is having problems with is with our economic policy. Vineyard is pushing for more liberal (Raise taxes for the rich, and that stuff), while I am leaning towards more conservative policies.

Are there any good sources that point to the advantages of conservative economic policy other than this one?

http://pages.prodigy.net/krtq73aa/economic.htm

Our manifestus is nearing completion; this needs a bump.

oh lord, not you people again!

oh lord, not you people again!

You have a problem with the Romans or something? Or just conservative social policies?

Even then we are not excluding anyone. Even liberal ideas are under consideration for use in our manifestus. :)

I'd have to say economically you should focus on low taxes, but generate enough welfare to give businesses a push to create a bigger job market. Pro-business policies also don't hurt, providing corporations pay as much taxes as small businesses (or small businesses pay no taxes). I'm pretty against social welfare, and I'd suggest you have none, since the moment you introduce it, there will be sentiment to raise the amounts paid to recipients. I'll decide if I want in based on what your economic policies are, but I like the fact that you recognize that a decline in morality is what causes society to go to shit.
I disagree with your proposal. We should support some social welfare but only for those who really really need it. Social Welfare should not be used to support the professional homeless.
As for multinational corporations, they have a bigger responsibility (taxwise) than do small businesses or the individual in mainstreet, nation. And hence, while I support low taxes for people and for small businesses, I think the taxes on multinationals should be at least a little higher than for anyone else. I would prefer some kind of environmental/social impact tax.
This would force them to account for the impact of their policies on the environment and on society.

Well, as promised, I am keeping my comments here. This is taken from their recruitment thread, and I thought I'd give an evaluation of my own.

I really must apologize, I've been busy all week.

I feel we should make a 'stances' category, to inform the public of our perceptions and our insight of the world. Despite what Crimson Sith claims, we are not a racist or supremist party.

Well, we shall see. If this is true, you have my sincerest apologies. Though I maintain that Whittier's comments in the original recruitment thread would suggest otherwise.

Now. MY ideals:

-School Children should wear radio transmitters that will tell their location at all times. This will curtail kidnaping, and keep these kids away from drugs and crime.

That's just......are you kidding me? I can't even wrap my head around this blatant violation of the human right to liberty.

-Science funding should be boosted DRAMITACLLY. The only real economic edge this country possesses over other nations is its science and learning. people from all over the world flock here to learn and to be trained in the latest breakthroughs and developments in science.

Which country? The USA? This is not an American parliament, but a Nation States parliament. Does that compute with you at all?

-We must crackdown on, and completely halt illegal immigration. It is causing inflation and is taking jobs away from legitimate American citizens. Illegal immigrants take jobs for pay that is under the minimum wage limit. This is making our economy weaker.

No, apparently it doesn't compute at all. I'd like to congratulate you on effectively rejecting just under half of the the NS community by catering exclusively to the American public. Bravo.

-Taxes should be raised in order to properly fund our schools and health programs. Without proper funding for these key areas, we have no future.

Hmmm, an authoritarian nation, with flawed socialist policies, and a facination with Roman glory. At this point, I draw the conclusion that your party is nothing more than an attempt to renew Mussolini's Fascist Party, catering to Americans, rather than Italians. Gee, that's appealing.

--With these tax increases in mind, seniors and people making less than $30,000 a year will NOT have taxes. Taxes will be greater(percentage wise) on people making over $200,000 a year.

So you basically plan to discriminate against the wealthy? You represent the working class, but are a conservative party? Typical fascist rhetoric.

-The IRA should be better funded and expanded to ensure there are no tax frauds in the USA.

What does the Irish Republican Army have to do with American tax fraud? And what does American tax fraud have to do with the NS Parliament? I just don't get it.

-Fishing (I apologize If I seem to be skipping around topics... I'm typing these as they come to me.). The European nations refuse to abide to international laws regarding fishing, and always over-fish at OUR cost. It is time to pull a 'European' on them. We should no longer follow these fishing laws that the European refuse to follow. I believe this will effectively stop seafood imports from other countries.

Once more I would like to stress that this is an NS parliament, not an American one. I'm not sure I would want you in our parliament, seeing as how you don't seem to have the imagination to think outside your own national borders.

-Abortion should be HIGHLY illegal, unless the person (mother to be) has been raped, or has the signed approval of a doctor stating that carrying a child will kill the mother.

What's the difference between "HIGHLY illegal" and just illegal? Also, this is a very pompous and self-righteous stance you have taken, but what exactly do you plan on doing with the thousands of unwanted children who will be abandoned in garbage bins, roaming the streets, or suffering from neglect due to your awesomely conservative position on this issue?

-Tax breaks should be granted to everyone who uses hybrid or electric cars, reducing our dependence on foreign oil (especially OPEC).

Wow, something we agree on. That's amazing.

-Our heritage should be protected, and our national parks preserved, even at the cost of the economy. Such as oil in Alaska. National parks should not be destroyed for drilling oil. Instead, we can establish low key oil drilling sectors that are highly restricted to a ver small plot of land within an national park. Buildings should be not taller than the trees, and should not dump wastes into the wild. these areas will be fenced off and these fences patrolled by rangers to ensure no animal deaths or mishaps occur with these small facilities. We should also assign environment activists to these oil sites, to criticize and to point out any disturbances made by the sites and to find every flaw within these facilities regarding wildlife safety.

An endevor which will cost tax payers billions of dollars annually if it is to be implemented in a sound and effective manner. No thanks, keep your hands off my paycheck!

-On that note, Animal rights organizations should be cracked down on for bombings and attacks that these lunatics make in the name of animal rights. Is blowing up humans really going to save a squirrel?

What the hell are you talking about?

-The KKK should all be arrested and sentenced to death for vile terrorist acts, along with the Neo-Nazis.

Sure, its prudent for a fascist party, once it comes to power, to eliminate its closest ideological competition. Can't be losing party members to other, similar political movements, hey?

Responding to the remarks by Crimson Sith:

1. According to NS rules, your comment is a personal attack and would constitute an attempt at flamebaiting. In fact you have made repeated attempts in this thread in an attempt to bait me.
None of my comments were racist in nature. You keep referring to what I said about gays. Fact is that gays are not a race of people. Fact is that being gay is a conscious decision that people make. Now if you want to call, said comments, anti gay, then go ahead. But they are neither racist nor bigoted.

2. Children, since they are incapable of rational mature thought, do not have the same rights as adults. In fact the concerns of the parents take precedence over the goals of extremist liberal socialist groups. As regards children, it in the national best interest to allow parents to place radio transmitters on their children. This is not to violate the children's rights or even their privacy, but to keep them safe from pedophiles, kidnappers, and others who want to do them harm.

3. Then our platform should include devolution of power from the NS parliament to the various national (or regional depending on what term you choose) legislature. I propose we include in our platform, a large decrease in national powers and a huge increase in local powers. This would account for the various cultures and nationalities on NS.

4. Actually the vast majority of NSer's are American Citizens located here in the US of A. I think it's like 60 or 70% of somewhere around there. The admins did a poll a while back. You might be able to find it by going through the news section.

5. We need basic healthcare. But it needs to emphasize prevention rather than having everyone always getting emergency care as the current systems do. I speak of all national health care systems and not just the American ones. If we emphasize prevention and penalize those who do things to damage their health and get themselves seriously injured, the cost of national healthcare would drop dramatically and every nation on earth would see huge national savings. For example, I would support free universal healthcare for all children under 12. But I would ban state funded healthcare for people who smoke and or engage in wanton sex with hundreds of partners thus ending up with aids. Cause those are irresponsible behaviors that cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars. I am not proposing that we ban said behaviors but I am proposing that if people must do them, we make them pay for it out of their own pockets. Why should those who do what is right be punished and forced to pay for the lives of selfish immoral people who don't care about anyone but themselves?

6. This is not fascist rhetoric it is just reality. This is how every nation in the rw does their tax system. It is based on fairness. Those with more money should pay more in taxes. Percentages however should not increase significantly until you get to the $100,000 bracket. Again, those who should pay the biggest percentages are multinational corporations because they are always acting without regarding for effects on the environment or on the local cultural or historical legacies.

7. Vineyard meant the IRS. I propose the NS parliament create a similar institution to enforce the tax laws otherwise the mega rich and all the multinationals will not pay their taxes and the poor will be punished as a result. The fact is that just about all rich people and every multinational corporation avoids paying any taxes in any nation whatsoever. This is not fair to small businesses nor is it fair to poor or middle income people who do pay their fair share of taxes.

8. Leave those fish alone. There must be an fishing authority to regulate fishing in all of the world's fishing grounds and to ensure fairness. Also due to sharply declining fish populations, there must be strict qoutas that are enforced on everyone that does fishing.

9. I stand by the stand that our party has already taken on this issue.

10. I propose that we put in taxbreaks for those who buy compressed air engine vehicles. These vehicle use no fuel. The pressure of moving compressed air makes the engine run.

11. Again, the problem is dependence on oil. This can be remedied by:
a. switching over to compressed air vehicles (since air is free).
b. building more nuclear power plants and solar power plants. Fossile fuels are predicted to run out in 20 years anyway. So any move to increase yeild will be futile.

12. I propose that there be a crackdown on all terrorist groups. Why should we just target animal rights groups? Any group that uses violence should be cracked down on.

13. See above. Again we are not fascists.

I think the taxes on multinationals should be at least a little higher than for anyone else. I would prefer some kind of environmental/social impact tax.

This would force them to account for the impact of their policies on the environment and on society.
How left-wing of you, Whittier! :)

-School Children should wear radio transmitters that will tell their location at all times. This will curtail kidnaping, and keep these kids away from drugs and crime.

Implausible.

Imagine the cost of such a policy - manufacturing and maintaining transmitters for every kid in the country, monitoring the data and taking court action against those who refuse to wear the transmitters. Is the crime rate really crippling enough to justify such measures?

Also, I think this would be of limited effectiveness. Although you know where people are, you don't necessarily know what they're doing. A major issue, particularly with 'unreported' crimes such as drug abuse.

Yes Whittier, because confronting you with your own words is "flamebating".

Some interesting Whittier quotes:

Gays should not have rights because they are always busy trying to take away everyone elses.

To discriminate against immigrants who seek to break our laws and cause our people harm, is not only American but is called patriotism in the United States.
I am not the only American who has a problem with all the gays forcing their militant gayism in our faces at virtual gun point.

I don't mind em picking grapes to support their America hating children. People got a right to get whaat work they can to support their families. What they don't have a right to do, is come to America, and rape our women and murder our police officers. The fact is that 70% of illegal immigrant males are pedophiles. Criminals have no right to enter the United States. The border must be sealed and jose strawberry picker ends up being locked out because of it, so be it.

The only militancy there is in the USA is from the wacko brainfried liberals seeking to ban all religion, seeking to repeal the constitution and set up one of their own as absolute dictator of America and give away our soverignty to the Revived Roman Empire that calls itself the European Union. If people want to be gay, that's their right. But their right ends at the precise point my personal space begins. They have no right to extort me of my money whereby forcing me to finance their immoral lifestyle which is going to get them sent straight to hell and that's from Bible. That's from Jesus himself. As I have aptly proven in another thread.

Nay that was not a mistake. Militant anti american homos are out to destroy America and as such constitute a serious threat to the national security of the United States and to the law abiding citizens of our nation.
The only thing that poses a greater threat is all the America hating, US flag burning illegal aliens shooting at our border patrol agents as they run across our border.

I am a real American. And the views of the unreal or hypothesis or qoutation mark Americans, take second seat to those of real Americans such as myself.

How left-wing of you, Whittier! :)
Its not a matter of left wing or right wing. Its an issue of fairness. And the fact is that multinational corporations don't pay taxes for any one. But they do get a lot of their projects funded with taxpayer money. Now how fair is that?

Again, to Crimson Sith:

1. The comment is anti gay, it is not racist. You said it was racist.
Nor is it bigoted. Those who seek to repeal the rights of others do not have foundation for retaining such rights for themselves. But such rights are of necessity governed by written national constitutions.

2. Pointing out that illegals not only enter the US but continue to break our other laws and physically assault our citizens is not racist. It is a fact backed up by local police stats and the stats that are collected by the US Department of Justice. Illegals commit more violent crimes than any other group in the US.

3. You claim racism here. When there is none. This about securing the US right to defend itself. Criminals have no right to enter the US. And the fact is that the US intell community has proof that human smugglers along the us mexico border have been smuggling in people who are members of terrorist organizations and are planning to bring more into the US. The terrorist groups llike Al Qaeda are paying them huge sums to do this. The only way to stop it is to close the border and secure it. Even if this means eliminating all illegal immigration.

4. I'm sure you must have a logical reason for this qoute. Though it is not related to your claims.

5. Again you claim racism. There is none here either. Nor can you use to support calling me homophobic. You really should read what you are qouting. I said militant homos, not all homos. Homos like everone else are free to do what they want as long as they don't invade my personal space with their extremist anti americanism. There is a line. I prefer they keep to their side of it. That is not too unreasonable to ask for.
As for the illegals, all the stats show they commit the most violent crimes of any group in the US. That is not saying that all illegals are violent criminals. If you read what I said in your other qoutes you should be able to figure that out if you chose to think critically.
What I have proposed is that all illegals be required to undergo criminal background checks. Those who have criminal records whether in the US or in their home nations, would be deported. Those whose only crime is being in the US illegally, (or some minor traffic violation) would be looked at on an individual basis to determine whether they warrant being allowed to stay in the US. This would be mandatory and any illegals who refuse to undergo such a background check, must of necessity, be assumed to have rap sheets and thus must be deported.
The other thing I have proposed, for your information, is that illegals be given incentives to work with law enforcement such as a fast track for US citizenship or automatic legal residency status. A lot of crimes could be solved if we could get the illegals to cooperate instead of them, indirectly giving aid and comfort to criminals. But fear of imprisonment or deportation prevents them from doing so. We must send a message that if you work with law enforcment, the opposite of deportation will occur.

6. There is only one American in the US. And it ain't the hyphenated kind. Those who refer themselves as some kind of hyphenated american, or as gay americans or christian americans are not real Americans. You are either just American or you are not a real American at all.

Implausible.

Imagine the cost of such a policy - manufacturing and maintaining transmitters for every kid in the country, monitoring the data and taking court action against those who refuse to wear the transmitters. Is the crime rate really crippling enough to justify such measures?

Also, I think this would be of limited effectiveness. Although you know where people are, you don't necessarily know what they're doing. A major issue, particularly with 'unreported' crimes such as drug abuse.
Come back and talk to me when your 6 year old daughter is kidnaped, raped, then stabbed several times; only to be dumped into a garbage dump. Now that's only a typical case...

I believe that its preventable with this system(Raising taxe precentage on fatcats).

Well, as promised, I am keeping my comments here. This is taken from their recruitment thread, and I thought I'd give an evaluation of my own.



Well, we shall see. If this is true, you have my sincerest apologies. Though I maintain that Whittier's comments in the original recruitment thread would suggest otherwise.



That's just......are you kidding me? I can't even wrap my head around this blatant violation of the human right to liberty.



Which country? The USA? This is not an American parliament, but a Nation States parliament. Does that compute with you at all?



No, apparently it doesn't compute at all. I'd like to congratulate you on effectively rejecting just under half of the the NS community by catering exclusively to the American public. Bravo.



Hmmm, an authoritarian nation, with flawed socialist policies, and a facination with Roman glory. At this point, I draw the conclusion that your party is nothing more than an attempt to renew Mussolini's Fascist Party, catering to Americans, rather than Italians. Gee, that's appealing.



So you basically plan to discriminate against the wealthy? You represent the working class, but are a conservative party? Typical fascist rhetoric.



What does the Irish Republican Army have to do with American tax fraud? And what does American tax fraud have to do with the NS Parliament? I just don't get it.



Once more I would like to stress that this is an NS parliament, not an American one. I'm not sure I would want you in our parliament, seeing as how you don't seem to have the imagination to think outside your own national borders.



What's the difference between "HIGHLY illegal" and just illegal? Also, this is a very pompous and self-righteous stance you have taken, but what exactly do you plan on doing with the thousands of unwanted children who will be abandoned in garbage bins, roaming the streets, or suffering from neglect due to your awesomely conservative position on this issue?



Wow, something we agree on. That's amazing.



An endevor which will cost tax payers billions of dollars annually if it is to be implemented in a sound and effective manner. No thanks, keep your hands off my paycheck!



What the hell are you talking about?



Sure, its prudent for a fascist party, once it comes to power, to eliminate its closest ideological competition. Can't be losing party members to other, similar political movements, hey?


I think it is now VERY clear that Crimson Sith is racist. Very racist.

The WORLD hunts down the Al Quaida and other terrorist across the world, yet does nothing about the KKK! Why? Why leave the KKK, who are proven murders and killers of people of color, alone? Clearly this guy has NO idea what he is talking about. Mabye he is even part of the KKK.

And YOU'RE calling US racist!? You support people burning crosses and chanting "White Power! White Power!" Do you even consider this wrong!?

And the IRA thing was a typo. Instead of Internal Revenue Service, I thought InternalRevenue Agency.

Also, Some Europena nations don't have a IRS type agency, and that causes people to lie about their income. Take croatia for instance. 1/3ed of the population out of work!? That's baloney. And i'm saying this AS a Croatian.

FACIST!? Don't make me gag.

FIRST OFF, you are NOT a liberal. You're either a communist, or one of those radical independants that feel if anyone even thinks differently than you, they are inferior.


So sue me If I made a mistake. I was kinda caught off guard.

-Typical scene with TGSr and Vineyard-
"Hey vineyard!"
"Hmmm."
"Guess what?"
*raises eyebrows*
"We have a political party! I telegramed you a link."
"Cool."


So little did I know that this is an NS parliment. So sue me. I am European. Go light yourself a cross and do a little dance around it, racist pig. Don't bother posting here, your KKK kind are unwanted.


-Little aside-
Too harsh?

*Aside*

Yea. Might want to edit it a little. Keep at least neutral feelings between you and him/her.

I think it is now VERY clear that Crimson Sith is racist. Very racist.

I'd like you to go ahead and justify this statement.

The WORLD hunts down the Al Quaida and other terrorist across the world, yet does nothing about the KKK! Why? Why leave the KKK, who are proven murders and killers of people of color, alone? Clearly this guy has NO idea what he is talking about. Mabye he is even part of the KKK.

Why doesn't the world do anything about the KKK? As far as I know, the KKK is an exclusively North American problem. Then again, I could be wrong, I don't really know that much about it. Why doesn't the USA do something about the KKK? Again, I don't know. Though I would agree that something should be done, apparently in the States it is unconstitutional for some reason. I'd appreciate your input in this matter.

I don't know what I'm talking about? If you say so...
I see parallels between your ideals and those of other extreme right wing groups in the USA. Hence, to me, your aggressively eliminating the KKK would seem more like eliminating competition on the far right wing. Where you got the idea that I'm a racist, or a member of the KKK for that matter, is beyond me. I am, however, a long time member of Anti Racist Action, if you've ever heard of that organisation. To me, it would seem that you don't know what you're talking about.

And YOU'RE calling US racist!? You support people burning crosses and chanting "White Power! White Power!" Do you even consider this wrong!?

I do? That's news to me. Way to jump to irrational conclusions. I can only assume that my post angered you so much that you wrote whatever furious drivel came to your mind. Why are you getting so worked up? This is only a game. I would suggest you get anger management counciling, before you hurt yourself, or someone else.

Also, Some Europena nations don't have a IRS type agency, and that causes people to lie about their income. Take croatia for instance. 1/3ed of the population out of work!? That's baloney. And i'm saying this AS a Croatian.

You're Croatian? Cool. I've spent quite a bit of time in Croatia. Zagreb is lots of fun, and your rocky coasts are simply stunning in the summer time. Do you live in Croatia? Sorry, I kind of assumed you did. :)

FIRST OFF, you are NOT a liberal.

I didn't say I was. I'm more of a moderate conservative.

You're either a communist, or one of those radical independants that feel if anyone even thinks differently than you, they are inferior.

Well, no, I'm not a Communist, and I'd love for you to explain how you came to this conclusion. And I don't think you're inferior to me. I just don't agree with your politics. Please don't push your inferiority complex on me.

So little did I know that this is an NS parliment. So sue me. I am European. Go light yourself a cross and do a little dance around it, racist pig. Don't bother posting here, your KKK kind are unwanted.

I find your blatant irrational flaming to be completely unecessary, and really quite disapointing. I was hoping for some kind of counterargument, too bad. I'm not a racist, I'm not in the KKK, and I won't have you spreading lies based on nothing about me. If you continue to defame me, I will seek a moderator's intervention.

I despise all and any racist and/or terrorist group out there. Forgive me, I jumped to conclusions.

I despise all and any racist and/or terrorist group out there. Forgive me, I jumped to conclusions.

Well then, there is something we do agree about. :)

Update!

People are now free to comment on our offical manifestus here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9341394&postcount=4).