NationStates Jolt Archive


Bono, Penelope Cruz, Brad Pitt, and Pat Robertson cooperate! Say what???

Eutrusca
11-06-2005, 15:42
NOTE: This is amazing, and great! I love it! As they say about good movies, "Two thumbs way, way up!" :D


Odd Alliance Brings About Debt Relief (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11debt.html?th&emc=th)

By ELIZABETH BECKER
Published: June 11, 2005

WASHINGTON, June 10 - It took them more than five years and required the star power of Hollywood names like Brad Pitt and leading evangelicals like Pat Robertson.

But the potent campaign built by Granola Belt charities, flamboyant rock musicians and movie celebrities, number-crunching economists, conservative and liberal religious groups - not to mention the Dalai Lama - finally helped persuade the world's wealthiest nations to forgive the debt of some of the world's poorest. The British and American proposal goes before the industrialized countries meeting this weekend.

It is a story reminiscent of the global campaign to abolish land mines, only this is just the first chapter.

Half a dozen commissions and reports have already called for the elimination of the more than $40 billion in debt that has hobbled the world's poorest countries for decades. Experts agreed that the money would never be paid back and that simply keeping up with interest payments was forcing countries to charge fees for elementary schools and health care at the most rudimentary clinics.

But policy makers from Washington to Berlin hesitated, torn between memories of corrupt governments that misspent and pocketed much of the aid themselves and contemporary fears that debt relief was just the opening salvo in a campaign that would require far more money than some wanted to spend.

They were right. But in the end it did not matter. The dam broke as the campaign grew in numbers - about 150 million people at the last count - and in sophistication. Led by Bono, the Irish rock star, the African debt-relief campaign made enough strategic alliances, especially with conservative groups and within the Bush White House, that some success proved inevitable.

Bono applauded Mr. Bush one minute, then chastised Paul Martin, the Canadian prime minister, for failing to pledge more money for global poverty reduction. And lately the flashy stars leading the way have adopted a political sophistication that would have been abhorred by their predecessors in the antiwar movement of the 1960's and 70's.

In a video, which is also broadcast as an advertisement on national television, Penélope Cruz, Jamie Foxx and other celebrities join Mr. Pitt and Mr. Robertson in asking Americans to demand that the government give 1 percent of the national budget to reduce poverty.

That works out to about $25 billion. There will be live rock concerts around the globe for the summit meeting of leaders of the Group of 8 nations, not violent protests, and sophisticated pitches for the aid.

"Give credit where credit is due," said Max Lawson, the debt expert for Oxfam, the charity that has been one of the movement's leaders. "The Bush administration has increased its aid budget, but it has to do much, much more."

Neither the Bush administration nor the government of Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, which has pushed the hardest for debt relief among the leaders of the rich industrial powers, has ceded the moral high ground to their critics. Mr. Bush said this week that poor countries trying to improve their governments "shouldn't be burdened by mountains of debt," making it clear that corrupt and incompetent countries were ineligible.

If those standards had been applied when governments granted some of the original loans, the poor nations of Africa, Latin America and Asia would not be in such a mess, according to Jeffrey D. Sachs, the Columbia University economist who led a United Nations-sponsored report on poverty, and helps the movement with its economic statistics.

During the 1970's and 1980's, the United States, France and other rich Western countries lent billions of dollars to corrupt governments whose only qualification was their opposition to communism. Some of those regimes disappeared but the loans remained, many with flexible interest rates tied to the ups and downs of the global financial marketplace.

The costs shot up and a downward spiral began. Countries had to borrow just to make their interest payments. Many of the loans from the World Bank were used to cover those interest payments but they came with conditions, often including cutting budgets. Soon children in the poorest African nations were forced to pay fees to attend public schools and families lost free coverage at rudimentary health clinics.

When the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund began to slowly reduce the debts of some of the 18 countries now scheduled to receive full debt forgiveness, those programs were the first to be reinstated. Tanzania spent its $3 billion in debt relief to eliminate its education fees and an additional 1.6 million enrolled in its elementary schools.

"This is a recognition at the very minimum that the debt burden has impeded economic growth - has strangled many of these countries - and I would like to believe it is a recognition by the advanced industrial nations of a degree of culpability for much of the overall debt," said Joseph E. Stiglitz, a former chief economist at the World Bank.

The World Bank disputes much of the criticism, especially since Paul A. Wolfowitz, its new president, has made helping Africa his top priority.

"We don't get kudos for helping reform courts, beginning debt relief and financial systems but we get knocked about the head for just about every negative aspect of globalization," said Damian Milverton, the spokesman at the World Bank.

Rich nations are right to consider this week's negotiations to wipe out debt only the first episode in an unfolding story. This stage will last through the G-8 summit of the seven industrial nations, plus Russia, at Gleneagles, Scotland, next month.

The second big push will be in September when the United Nations holds a global summit meeting in New York and the United States will be under special pressure.

"Debt is only a small part of the total needed," Mr. Sachs said. "The most consequential element is development assistance and the White House isn't doing what is needed."

The last stop will be Hong Kong where the World Trade Organization meets in December to try to change rules to aid poor countries. "This is a pitch for the poor we've never seen before," Mr. Lawson said. "It's quite exciting and it just might work."
Kanabia
11-06-2005, 15:50
Finally!

It's a nice start...hopefully the shape of things to come, but I remain under the influence of a healthy dose of skepticism. :p
Texpunditistan
11-06-2005, 15:59
OMG!!!111!one! Robertson MUST be doing it for publicity, since we ALL know ONLY lefties care about the poor. :rolleyes:

(Oh, how I wish we had a :barf: smiley.)
Eutrusca
11-06-2005, 16:18
Finally!

It's a nice start...hopefully the shape of things to come, but I remain under the influence of a healthy dose of skepticism. :p
Ditto. Healthy skepticism is always a good thing to have. But you're right ... it is a good start. One can hope that we will build on this and finally begin working toward a world where children won't go to bed hungry.
The South Islands
11-06-2005, 16:18
Long article...
Eutrusca
11-06-2005, 16:19
OMG!!!111!one! Robertson MUST be doing it for publicity, since we ALL know ONLY lefties care about the poor. :rolleyes:

(Oh, how I wish we had a :barf: smiley.)
I know what you mean. People on here discover I was US military and automatically assume that I'm cold, mean, and cruel ... and a friggin' neo-con, for crying out loud. Sigh. :(
Eutrusca
11-06-2005, 16:20
Long article...
Don't read it! You might learn something. The horror! The horror! :D
Texpunditistan
11-06-2005, 16:30
I know what you mean. People on here discover I was US military and automatically assume that I'm cold, mean, and cruel ... and a friggin' neo-con, for crying out loud. Sigh. :(
Same here. Since I'm a right-leaning libertarian (note the small L), people automatically assume that "OMG! J00 R SELFISH! J00 HATE TEH POOR!", which couldn't be farther from the truth. I believe in helping the poor and do so when I can. I just don't believe that the government should rob me at gunpoint to "help" the poor (of which it does an absolutely LOUSY job). I think it should be people's CHOICE on whether or not they help the poor. True, some people wouldn't help them...but there will always be people like me who DO help the poor when and how we can.
The Chocolate Goddess
11-06-2005, 16:30
I am happy star power can be useful for something...

I would like to say that the Canadian Finance Minister did agree to the plan, along with the other finance ministers of the G-8 countries (Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050611.wdebtrelief11/BNStory/International/)). we'll see what happens with everyone's good intentions at the G-8 sommit.

on a side note, i get the feeling The New York Times really doesn't like Canada for some reason. but maybe it's just me and i'm being too sensitive...
Texpunditistan
11-06-2005, 16:31
on a side note, i get the feeling The New York Times really doesn't like Canada for some reason. but maybe it's just me and i'm being too sensitive...
Don't feel bad. The New York Times hates the US, too. ;)
The Chocolate Goddess
11-06-2005, 16:34
Don't feel bad. The New York Times hates the US, too. ;)

OH, well in that case, i feel much better... ;)
Ekland
11-06-2005, 16:54
Awesome stuff Eutrusca, great to hear. :)
Hyperslackovicznia
11-06-2005, 17:06
Same here. Since I'm a right-leaning libertarian (note the small L), people automatically assume that "OMG! J00 R SELFISH! J00 HATE TEH POOR!", which couldn't be farther from the truth. I believe in helping the poor and do so when I can. I just don't believe that the government should rob me at gunpoint to "help" the poor (of which it does an absolutely LOUSY job). I think it should be people's CHOICE on whether or not they help the poor. True, some people wouldn't help them...but there will always be people like me who DO help the poor when and how we can.


And they think you drive around in a truck with a gun rack with 3-5 rifles and shotguns on it, and you do so while drinking a can of beer.

I agree with you as far as being taxed for social programs. There are people so damned wealthy they could donate the entire amount the entire country (personal, not business, I'm speaking of right now) is taxed. I've also seen too many of the poor take their welfare checks, the checks to support their children, etc., spent in one day on crack. That kind of shit pisses me off. I'm paying to support someone's drug habit. Mind you, I am NOT dissing addicts. My point is ME paying for THEIR dope. You would be surprised how much of this goes on. People from IL drive to Milwaukee to get welfare there too! Then they go home! (They used to. I don't know if this has been eradicated or not.)

I donate when I can, especially to Vets, Firemen, Cancer. But right now, we ARE the poor, and seeing 1/3 of a paycheck going to the government makes me want to cry. I know SS and social programs, and infrastructure, etc., has to be paid for, but I would love to see a major progressive tax system... and high taxes on large corporations. Oh yeah... that will happen under Bush. :rolleyes:

Gee, I didn't read the subject. I hope I'm on track... I'm just adding to Tex's comments.
Hyperslackovicznia
11-06-2005, 17:09
Ooops... guess I was a bit off topic. However, it's important to note that a good share of foreign aid never gets to it's correct destination. There is a huge gap between foreign aid, and how much is used correctly. Sometimes foreign aid just makes another country's economy worse.
Swimmingpool
11-06-2005, 19:20
OMG!!!111!one! Robertson MUST be doing it for publicity, since we ALL know ONLY lefties care about the poor. :rolleyes:

Only lefties care about the government taking action about it.
Texpunditistan
11-06-2005, 19:56
Only lefties care about the government taking action about it.
Why don't lefties get off their asses and go out and help the poor themselves? Why are they so damned lazy that they'd rather sit home and want the government to take care of the poor? They're either too busy, lazy or disgusted by the poor to actually do something about it. They like the idea of the government taking everyone's money at gunpoint and doing what they can't be bothered to do. It gives them more time to whine about how "unfair" everything is.
Guadalupelerma
11-06-2005, 19:58
I saw the TV Ad on this just yesterday. First thought, Pat Robinson and Brad Pitt?!?!
2nd thought,: just think. If we combined the take on one year of movies/music/tithes released by these big wigs....now that's debt relief.
3rd thought: yeah, if I had that much money I'd care about causes too.
Last thought...Golly, I've gotten cynical these days. :)
Swimmingpool
12-06-2005, 19:21
Why don't lefties get off their asses and go out and help the poor themselves? Why are they so damned lazy that they'd rather sit home and want the government to take care of the poor? They're either too busy, lazy or disgusted by the poor to actually do something about it.

They like the idea of the government taking everyone's money at gunpoint and doing what they can't be bothered to do. It gives them more time to whine about how "unfair" everything is.
Maybe you should ask them yourself. I said that it was surprising that Pat Robertson wanted the government to do something about the poor because right-wingers are usually against the government helping the poor.

Don't you ever get sick of typing "tax robbery at gunpoint?" It's misleading and sensationalist. I'm willing to bet that no government official has ever actually taken your money at gunpoint.

The idea of the government helping the poor is just that. We have the government do it because we don't have too; and the fact is that most people will not voluntarily give their money to help the poor. People are selfish like that.
Texpunditistan
12-06-2005, 19:26
Don't you ever get sick of typing "tax robbery at gunpoint?" It's misleading and sensationalist. I'm willing to bet that no government official has ever actually taken your money at gunpoint.
Tell that to the (at least) hundreds of business owners that have had armed IRS agents is full SWAT gear raid their offices. THAT is "at gunpoint".

It's pretty sad that the truth is now "sensationalist". :(
New Fuglies
12-06-2005, 20:03
Tell that to the (at least) hundreds of business owners that have had armed IRS agents is full SWAT gear raid their offices. THAT is "at gunpoint".

It's pretty sad that the truth is now "sensationalist". :(

Kinda like Enron, Tyco, WorldCom, Arthur Andersen...?