NationStates Jolt Archive


U.S. contractor alleges abuse by Marines in Iraq

The Cat-Tribe
11-06-2005, 10:04
Perhaps someone will believe this white, American, ex-Marine or is he a lying terrorist too?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/10/iraq.contractors.ap/index.html

Security contractors were heckled, humiliated and physically abused by U.S. Marines in Iraq while jailed for 72 hours with insurgents, one of the detainees said Friday.

"It was disbelief the whole time. I couldn't believe what was happening," said Matt Raiche, 34, an ex-Marine who was one of 16 American and three Iraqi contractors detained at Camp Falluja last month.

"I just found it crazy that we were being held with terrorists, that we were put in the same facility with them," he told The Associated Press in an interview at his lawyer's office. "They were calling us a rogue mercenary team."

Defense officials said Thursday that the security guards for Charlotte, North Carolina-based Zapata Engineering were detained for three days. The contractors fired on Iraqi civilian cars and U.S. forces in Falluja, 40 miles west of Baghdad, the Defense officials said.

Company president Manuel Zapata said the only shot fired by his workers was a warning blast after they noticed a vehicle following them. (More on Falluja incident)

The military has denied the contractors were abused. No charges have been filed against any of the contractors, who the military said were separated from suspected insurgents.

Raiche, of Dayton, Nevada, said the contractors were stopped and taken into custody on May 28. He said a Marine told him that shots had been fired, and Raiche told him, "It wasn't us."

Raiche said several of the contractors were interrogated before they were released June 1 with no official explanation for their detention.

A detainee's allegations
Raiche said guards intimidated the detainees with dogs, made them strip and told them to wear towels over their heads going to the restroom, so insurgents in the facility would not recognize and harm them, Raiche said.

One of his colleagues was slammed to the ground by a guard, he said.

"His head bounced off the asphalt." Raiche said. "He told me he heard one guard say to another, `If he moves, let the dog loose."'

Raiche said his colleague told him that a guard then reached down and "squeezed his testicles so hard he could barely move."

When Raiche first arrived at the facility, he said a guard ordered him to the ground and put a knee in his back. He said he heard one Marine say, "How does it feel now making that big contractor money?"

Raiche said the Marines handcuffed them with "zip lock ties." When the detainees complained they were so tight they were losing circulation in their hands, they were cursed at and told to shut up, Raiche said.

Raiche returned to Reno on Thursday night. He said he had been in Iraq for about two years before returning to Nevada earlier this spring, then headed back to Iraq on May 2.

An estimated 20,000 Americans, many of them former military personnel, are believed to be working in Iraq for contractors. More than 200 private workers have died in Iraq.

Zapata Engineering contracts frequently with the Defense Department and Zapata said he was waiting for completion of the military's investigation before he draws conclusions about how the military treated his workers.
Leonstein
11-06-2005, 10:20
Sounds like a reliable source and a credible story.

As to why it couldn't possibly be true, I'm not creative enough. Wait a day or so and we'll know. ;)
Also quite likely that someone will argue that his company (or he himself) is somehow un-American.
Otherwise it probably was a few "bad apples" again, I'm sure it won't take long for that to come up...
The Cat-Tribe
11-06-2005, 23:03
*bump*
Tactical Grace
12-06-2005, 01:08
Maybe the contractors (or the majority) were black?

Seriously, you know what the traffic cop mentality is, could be the same situation only with no rules.
Underemployed Pirates
15-06-2005, 22:34
If it went like this:

I'm a Marine on patrol, and you're a civilian security contractor who hasn't coordinated his presence with my patrol. You think I'm a bad guy, and you fire a warning shot. You're going down.

Being detained for a few days in the same facility as insurgents sure beats being riddled with responsive fire from a Marine patrol.


If this is how it went down, the guy shouldn't be complaining.

If you are an armed civilian in a war zone, you must ensure that the US troops know where you are and who you are....anything else is foolish.
Lunatic Goofballs
15-06-2005, 22:40
Opportunities for the Marines for entertainment are few and far between. They have to take em when they can get em. :p
Lacadaemon
15-06-2005, 22:44
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?
Dobbsworld
15-06-2005, 22:50
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?

That depends. What, specifically strikes you as being ironic?
Sinuhue
15-06-2005, 22:53
He is clearly a terrorist sympathiser. /sarcasm
New Shiron
15-06-2005, 23:05
I heard the story on NPR yesterday... the construction company owner felt that the shooting incident was the responsibility of another group of contractors, not his, and the Marines detained the wrong people.

Now if I was a marine I wouldn't be too happy with them, and I can see how hard feelings are being developed. Its pretty clear though that the Marines were shot at, and that a group of contractors did refuse to follow instructions and failed to let anyone of authority know they were in the area. A bad idea, that gets people killed. So the Marines have a right to be pissed.

Its important to maintain discpline though. Roughing up contractors isn't a good idea. Especially if these were the wrong guys.

On the other hand, these contractors are basically what were called mercenaries in most other wars, and they are loosely supervised, and may be counterproductive to US and Iraqi efforts in the long run. Its too bad they appear to be necessary at the moment.

In other words, I am not sure how I feel about all this just yet. I will wait for more information.
Underemployed Pirates
15-06-2005, 23:30
In my first tour in Viet Nam, there still were French mercenaries -- really bad hombres (like a cross between Apaches on speed and piranahs) --- and ocassionally a few hapless-but-armed-observers. The French mercenaries weren't a problem, but the hapless observers could get you killed.

If you don't know what you're doing and you are in a war zone, don't fire on Marines and then complain that you had to cool your heals in a holding tank for a few days.

As you can guess, I don't have much sympathy for civilian want-a-be mercenaries.
The Cat-Tribe
15-06-2005, 23:53
1. These were contractors hired by the Army Corps of Engineers.[I]

2. It is not merely that they were detained. It was that they were [I]abused. Relatively minor compared to other allegations, but those are usually dismissed on the grounds that the victims are terrorists and "trained to lie."

3. Here is some of the treatment described:

Raiche said guards intimidated the detainees with dogs, made them strip and told them to wear towels over their heads when they went to the restroom so insurgents in the facility would not recognize and harm them, Raiche said.

One of his colleagues was slammed to the ground by a guard, he said.

“His head bounced off the asphalt,” Raiche said. “He told me he heard one guard say to another, ‘If he moves, let the dog loose.”’

Raiche said his colleague told him that a guard then reached down and “squeezed his testicles so hard he could barely move.”

When Raiche first arrived at the facility, he said a guard ordered him to the ground and put a knee in his back. He said he heard one Marine say, “How does it feel now making that big contractor money?”

Raiche said the Marines handcuffed them with “zip lock ties.” When the detainees complained they were so tight they were losing circulation in their hands, they were cursed at and told to shut up, Raiche said.



Here are additional stories (there are numerous versions of the same AP storie online, these are stories that have additional information):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1502474,00.html
http://www.t-g.com/story/1099111.html
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2005/06/14/101750.php
Domici
16-06-2005, 00:23
If it went like this:

I'm a Marine on patrol, and you're a civilian security contractor who hasn't coordinated his presence with my patrol. You think I'm a bad guy, and you fire a warning shot. You're going down.

Being detained for a few days in the same facility as insurgents sure beats being riddled with responsive fire from a Marine patrol.


If this is how it went down, the guy shouldn't be complaining.

If you are an armed civilian in a war zone, you must ensure that the US troops know where you are and who you are....anything else is foolish.

I don't think the complaint was that the marines were excesively bureacratic in acknowledging their alliance, but rather the conditions of the imprisonment and proof that just being rounded up by US forces doesn't mean that you're automatically a terrorist. As such, people in these prisons deserve to be treated like human beings.
Domici
16-06-2005, 00:27
He is clearly a terrorist sympathiser. /sarcasm

Obviously. If you say something bad about the results of anythig favored by the republican party, then you're clearly biased against the American government, which is mostly republican. If you're that clearly un-american then you support our enemies. Terrorists and those who have anything in common with them (think Bush is a lousy leader, worship Allah, breathe oxygen etc.) ought to be sent to Gitmo. They may get abused, but that just proves that they're terrorists, because if they weren't criticizing American policy before, they certainly will afterwards, and that makes them de facto terrorists.
Domici
16-06-2005, 00:33
In my first tour in Viet Nam, there still were French mercenaries -- really bad hombres (like a cross between Apaches on speed and piranahs) --- and ocassionally a few hapless-but-armed-observers. The French mercenaries weren't a problem, but the hapless observers could get you killed.

French Mercenaries? Surely you jest. Everyone knows that all French people are socialist effeminate cheese eating surrender-monkies. To claim that a Frenchman can be tough, or willing to trade work for money, is flagrantly unamerican. It is akin to claiming that there can be a negative attribute that might not be appropratly applied to the act flying a plane into a building (of course we all know that such an act is cowardly, atheistic, communist, fascist, anarchistic, liberal, intellectual, stupid, low-class, and elitist). You'll never get a talk show with that attitude buddy.
German Nightmare
16-06-2005, 01:07
You're just asking for trouble, aren't you? So far, this thread has been quite interesting. Then came you...
Sumamba Buwhan
16-06-2005, 01:11
the Republican think-tank hasn't release it's talking points yet. give them time.
Underemployed Pirates
16-06-2005, 03:48
I don't think the complaint was that the marines were excesively bureacratic in acknowledging their alliance, but rather the conditions of the imprisonment and proof that just being rounded up by US forces doesn't mean that you're automatically a terrorist. As such, people in these prisons deserve to be treated like human beings.


Point 1: Yes, whether they were contractors, mercenaries, or insurgents, they deserved to be treated like human beings;

Point 2: Security contractors who act like wanna-be soldiers and get in the way or otherwise threaten regular troops place themselves in danger -- if I were the Marine receiving a warning shot, I'd have made sure that the wanna-be had sufficient reason to reconsider his actions so that the next time I was on patrol in the area he was in he'd make sure not to fire a "warning shot" to me -- he's committing an act that reasonably could be interpreted as being aggressive and result in a wholly unnecessary fire-fight;

Point 3: If this guy telling the story was not in the group thaqt fired the warning shot, he's still one lucky hoser not to have been killed.