NationStates Jolt Archive

I admit, being someone who's somewhat religiously geared (and living in Kansas City, where at any respectable coffeeshop, you get this kind of intelligent discussion), I am more prone to leafing though the religious discussions on the boards than most of the other things. What has gotten to me lately, and pushed me to extreme annoyance over the reading of the "Why do Theists hate Atheists" thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424932), is the seemingly varied degrees to which people will label themselves, whether or not their described beliefs truly match what they're calling themselves.

Here, to the best of my ability, are the four major aspects:
atheist - n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
agnostic - n. 1. One who believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God; 2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
theist - n. One who believes in existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.
spiritualist n. One who follows a philosophy, doctrine, or religion emphasizing the spiritual aspect of being.

These threads are fraught with people saying things about how they must be agnostic, because they're anti-organized religion. No. You're just a run-of-the-mill non-denominational theist, maybe a spiritualist at the outside guess, unless there's some aspect of that you're not bringing to light.

However, I'm not sure if the people who actually profess these beliefs are going by the same definitions as I am (though, mine are pulled from a dictionary), so I'd be interested to know, if you are a self-labeled anything, what exactly are your personal (or religious, if you're on the believing side) views on why you are what you say you are?

Just trying to clear the air, PLEASE let's not get some huge debate going, I'm trying to do this more for understanding than for some jerk to come in and bash everybody.

I am an atheist in the traditional sense, dismissing any notion of religion or spirituality. However, additionally I maintain that the very question of religion and spirituality is irrelevant in the context of observable reality, so even sceptical contemplation of such things can bring no further understanding of our surroundings.

It is, I suppose, a brand of atheism which not only states that there are no gods, but that the question itself is irrelevant.

Simonist']

atheist - n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.


Not to be nitpicky here, but that's something of a biased definition. Calling an atheist "one who disbelieves" implies that there is in fact something to disbelieve or deny. A more accurate definition is TG's, along the lines of "one who believes the idea of the supernatural to be irrelevant and false."

Or something like that.

Not to be nitpicky here, but that's something of a biased definition. Calling an atheist "one who disbelieves" implies that there is in fact something to disbelieve or deny. A more accurate definition is TG's, along the lines of "one who believes the idea of the supernatural to be irrelevant and false."

Or something like that.

Sorry, but the word "atheist" refers to God. A (without) + theos (god).

Good ole' dictionary.com. You do realise that the primary source for that website is the American Heritage Dictionary, which is self-professed to be a dictionary of Americanisms?

Simonist']atheist - n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
Actually, that should read:
atheist - n. Godless freaks with no real belief system other than that humans are the be-all, end-all of existence.
I'M KIDDING!
please don't delete me *puppy dog eyes*

I'm a spiritualist, and an evil one at that.

Simonist']However, I'm not sure if the people who actually profess these beliefs are going by the same definitions as I am (though, mine are pulled from a dictionary), so I'd be interested to know, if you are a self-labeled anything, what exactly are your personal (or religious, if you're on the believing side) views on why you are what you say you are?
I am religious, and I believe in god, but I adhere to no organized religion. "Religious" refers to building and having a relationship with an individual's concept of divinity.

Some people consider everyone not-Christian to be atheist; after all, they don't believe in God, you know. ;)

Sorry, but the word "atheist" refers to God. A (without) + theos (god).
Etymologically, that may be the definition. However, here we are attempting to define the words in their common usage. So an atheist is one who finds the idea of a god or gods totally irrelevant.

Don't know if that really belongs here, but in terms of definition I find it a lot harder with people who claim to be Christian (I'm kind of counting me in there, as I'm of Catholic background, even though I stopped believing in their exact doctrines), but have so different views of their religion/spirituality. You start discussing some topic, elaborating the point of view of the Catholic church (the easiest one, as they tend to be rather clear on most issues) and find the other person saying "But I don't believe in Catholicism, my church believes that Jesus had three mothers and Noah only took those anmilas on board he could fornicate with and that's why dinosaurs are extinct" or something on those lines...

I know that there are many different beliefs within Christianity, so it would be helpful if people stopped calling themselves Christian but rather Southern Baptist, Orthodox Lutheran or Reformed Unitarian or whatever it is they are.

Simonist']I admit, being someone who's somewhat religiously geared (and living in Kansas City, where at any respectable coffeeshop, you get this kind of intelligent discussion), I am more prone to leafing though the religious discussions on the boards than most of the other things. What has gotten to me lately, and pushed me to extreme annoyance over the reading of the "Why do Theists hate Atheists" thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424932), is the seemingly varied degrees to which people will label themselves, whether or not their described beliefs truly match what they're calling themselves.

Here, to the best of my ability, are the four major aspects:
atheist - n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
agnostic - n. 1. One who believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God; 2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
theist - n. One who believes in existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.
spiritualist n. One who follows a philosophy, doctrine, or religion emphasizing the spiritual aspect of being.

These threads are fraught with people saying things about how they must be agnostic, because they're anti-organized religion. No. You're just a run-of-the-mill non-denominational theist, maybe a spiritualist at the outside guess, unless there's some aspect of that you're not bringing to light.

However, I'm not sure if the people who actually profess these beliefs are going by the same definitions as I am (though, mine are pulled from a dictionary), so I'd be interested to know, if you are a self-labeled anything, what exactly are your personal (or religious, if you're on the believing side) views on why you are what you say you are?

Just trying to clear the air, PLEASE let's not get some huge debate going, I'm trying to do this more for understanding than for some jerk to come in and bash everybody.
I'd prefer not to label myself a "spiritualist"-it sounds so primitive.

I'd prefer not to label myself a "spiritualist"-it sounds so primitive.

What's wrong with being primitive, it scares people :)

Etymologically, that may be the definition. However, here we are attempting to define the words in their common usage. So an atheist is one who finds the idea of a god or gods totally irrelevant.

I know what an atheist is, I am one. Someone else defined it as something that doesn't mention God. I am also a disbeliever of the supernatural, but the word "atheist" doesn't cover this.

atheist - n. Godless freaks with no real belief system other than that humans are the be-all, end-all of existence.

Why do you have such a problem with people having a differing opinion to you on this matter?

I'd prefer not to label myself a "spiritualist"-it sounds so primitive.
Wouldn't a primitive spiritualist be an 'animist'? *shrugs*

Why do you have such a problem with people having a differing opinion to you on this matter?


I find it funny he says that Atheists have no 'real' belief system...

Freud wins again!

Why do you have such a problem with people having a differing opinion to you on this matter?

Just get used to him. I have.

Also, I feel a sense of pride that the thread I started spawned another. Maybe this thread will spawn yet another...

Scary

I find it funny he says that Atheists have no 'real' belief system...

Freud wins again!

Can you explain how Freud wins for those not as learnèd in the field of Psychology?

Why do you have such a problem with people having a differing opinion to you on this matter?
Apparently my warped sense of humor is way too un-PC for some people.

*sighs and goes to take a shower*

Apparently my warped sense of humor is way too un-PC for some people.

*sighs and goes to take a shower*

No, I have no problem with the lack of PC, it just seemed like a hateful comment in the guise of a joke.

No, I have no problem with the lack of PC, it just seemed like a hateful comment in the guise of a joke.

Ignore him. Hopefully he'll go away.

Ignore him. Hopefully he'll go away.
Hah. Tex? Go away? Not until he crosses enough lines to be banned.

I am an atheist in the traditional sense, dismissing any notion of religion or spirituality. However, additionally I maintain that the very question of religion and spirituality is irrelevant in the context of observable reality, so even sceptical contemplation of such things can bring no further understanding of our surroundings.

It is, I suppose, a brand of atheism which not only states that there are no gods, but that the question itself is irrelevant.

well put, you must have answered this question before.

while i am an atheist i still like to consider the ethical implications of different beliefs and whether or not i should ACT like a christian or buddhist or moslem or whatever. if following christian ethics can give me a better life, then i see no reason not to follow them just because i dont believe in the religious part.

well put, you must have answered this question before.

while i am an atheist i still like to consider the ethical implications of different beliefs and whether or not i should ACT like a christian or buddhist or moslem or whatever. if following christian ethics can give me a better life, then i see no reason not to follow them just because i dont believe in the religious part.

Good point.

I, however, just decide what is right for the particular situation. Sometimes this complies with religious ethics, sometimes it doesn't.

Not to interrupt, but..

Originally Posted by [NS]Simonist
agnostic - n. 1. One who believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God; 2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

I've always believed that to be agnostic is less about being skeptical and more about being vague when it comes to belief. For example, an agnostic might say 'I don't really follow a set religion, but I believe such-and-such about God and such-and-such about the afterlife.' A sort of make-it-up-as-you-go-along system.

Would this simply be non-denominational?

Not to interrupt, but..



I've always believed that to be agnostic is less about being skeptical and more about being vague when it comes to belief. For example, an agnostic might say 'I don't really follow a set religion, but I believe such-and-such about God and such-and-such about the afterlife.' A sort of make-it-up-as-you-go-along system.

Would this simply be non-denominational?

Agnostic is sitting on the fence.


ag·nos·tic
n.

1.
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

All right. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Not to interrupt, but..



I've always believed that to be agnostic is less about being skeptical and more about being vague when it comes to belief. For example, an agnostic might say 'I don't really follow a set religion, but I believe such-and-such about God and such-and-such about the afterlife.' A sort of make-it-up-as-you-go-along system.

Would this simply be non-denominational?
well OK

what WOULD you call someone who pretty much believes in jesus but is "agnostic" about all of the theological trappings. doesnt know what to believe about the trinity, jesus as the only begotten son of god, the ressurection, transubstantiation, the virgin birth, the bodily assumption of mary etc etc etc.

I'm Catholic so i'm just boring

I'm Catholic so i'm just boring
I'm Catholic and I'm not bored with it. I think if you're bored with it, you could find something better. Except I heart church, most of the time. Unless you don't mean that you're bored with it, you mean you're actually boring, in which case.......sorry, dude.

Thanks for the intelligent replies, it gives me a much broader idea of what people ACTUALLY believe than what I've gotten so far.

please don't delete me *puppy dog eyes*
Who could ban a face like that?




oh right...the mods ;)