NationStates Jolt Archive

When I was in junior high I was taught about all* of the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhism) and what they stood for, but I saw a story online about conservatives seeing a liberal bias in k-12 schools (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/csm/cbill). Now, I am liberal and I am a junior of a public school and I do notice it. There isn't too much debate about that, and it isn't what I want to know.

The conservative groups that were opposed to the bias were, for whatever reason, opposed to teachers informing students about Islam. I attended 7th grade history and the only things they taught us about the religion is breifly of Abraham, Mecca, and the meaning of jihad (since it was just past 9/11, I suppose).

Which leads me to my question: Why are conservatives against the teaching about Islam in school? How is Islam considered liberal?

When I was in junior high I was taught about all* of the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhism) and what they stood for, but I saw a story online about conservatives seeing a liberal bias in k-12 schools (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/csm/cbill). Now, I am liberal and I am a junior of a public school and I do notice it. There isn't too much debate about that, and it isn't what I want to know.

The conservative groups that were opposed to the bias were, for whatever reason, opposed to teachers informing students about Islam. I attended 7th grade history and the only things they taught us about the religion is breifly of Abraham, Mecca, and the meaning of jihad (since it was just past 9/11, I suppose).

Which leads me to my question: Why are conservatives against the teaching about Islam in school? How is Islam considered liberal?
First of all, I disagree that there is a liberal bias in the public school system, but then again, I went through the ALABAMA public school system.

Second, it's probably the same reason that Christians are against teaching evolution.

Because all Muslims are terrorists, obviously. :rolleyes:

When I was in junior high I was taught about all* of the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhism) and what they stood for, but I saw a story online about conservatives seeing a liberal bias in k-12 schools (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/csm/cbill). Now, I am liberal and I am a junior of a public school and I do notice it. There isn't too much debate about that, and it isn't what I want to know.

The conservative groups that were opposed to the bias were, for whatever reason, opposed to teachers informing students about Islam. I attended 7th grade history and the only things they taught us about the religion is breifly of Abraham, Mecca, and the meaning of jihad (since it was just past 9/11, I suppose).

Which leads me to my question: Why are conservatives against the teaching about Islam in school? How is Islam considered liberal?good question... I would guess then it would open the door to allow other religions to be taught such as Creationism, Zen, and others that Athiests (or some Athiest) are against. It could also bring back prayer in schools as well as the Pledge of Alligence which alot of people are also against.

First of all, I disagree that there is a liberal bias in the public school system, but then again, I went through the ALABAMA public school system.

Second, it's probably the same reason that Christians are against teaching evolution.Please!... I am a Christian and am NOT against Evolution. at least put the word SOME and not make it a blanket statement.

good question... I would guess then it would open the door to allow other religions to be taught such as Creationism, Zen, and others that Athiests (or some Athiest) are against. It could also bring back prayer in schools as well as the Pledge of Alligence which alot of people are also against.

Why would an atheist oppose zen?

Simple - knowledge is power. If you know too much they can't control you and mould you into a good flag waving conservative Republican American! If you knew the truth about Islam, they'd be unable to justify their BS. ;)

First of all, I disagree that there is a liberal bias in the public school system, but then again, I went through the ALABAMA public school system.

Second, it's probably the same reason that Christians are against teaching evolution.

That's nothing, I'm in the Idaho school system. But, as my science teacher said when asked who he was voting for he said: "I'm poor and I'm a teacher, who do you think I'm voting for? Not Bush."

But, I don't want this to be a debate about biases in schools. I also had a history teacher put up a Bush/Cheney campaign poster on his wall.

Second, what reason is that?

good question... I would guess then it would open the door to allow other religions to be taught such as Creationism, Zen, and others that Athiests (or some Athiest) are against. It could also bring back prayer in schools as well as the Pledge of Alligence which alot of people are also against.
Either I'm confused or you are. It's the Christians that want the mention of Islam booted from public schools.

I think it's currently a tit-for-tat situation. With the ACLU running around to every town and school and screaming "NO (Christianity) RELIGION!", shouldn't it equally apply to Islam?

Sorry. My mistake. I made a generalization and I'm too lazy to correct it.

Second, what reason is that?

The same reason that some muslims are against the teaching of christianity. They don't want people hearing different viewpoints.

I think it's currently a tit-for-tat situation. With the ACLU running around to every town and school and screaming "NO (Christianity) RELIGION!", shouldn't it equally apply to Islam?

Yah, that too probably.

Why would an atheist oppose zen?

Consider this scenario:

Phil Jackson was coach of the Chicago Bulls and, later, the Los Angeles Lakers.

Undoubtedly, there are atheists who oppose the Chicago Bulls and/or the Los Angeles Lakers.

And by association, they are against Phil Jackson.

Phil Jackson is a student/practitioner of Zen.

By association, then, these atheists come to hate Zen.

That, mis amigos, is how an atheist could come to oppose Zen.

Either I'm confused or you are. It's the Christians that want the mention of Islam booted from public schools.
Not really. Think about it. for all these years, prayers are condemned in schools, the pledge with the words "Under God" is now not encouraged to be said, all Christian symbolism is systematically removed, and now they want to teach Islam? you see, with all of the anti-christian rulings in place, why allow Islam free access to the schools? That's favoring one religion over another.

I, as a Christian, would allow Islam to be taught, but then turn around and demand the same to be allowed for Christian Teachings using the Islam classes as the prescident. thus if it's then refused, then the Christians can take it to the courts an show the favoritisms as well as the Unconstitutional favoring of one religion over another.

But that's me.

The ACLU is fine with teaching about religion in schools, such as history and impact, but feels that teaching religion in school (i.e. participating in religious functions such as praying or making students fast during Passover or Ramadan) is unconstitutional. There is a big difference between discussing or learning about religion and participating in it.
Why should we not have prayer in the classroom? I would not want my teachers telling me how to pray, do you want your teachers telling you how to do it?

Consider this scenario:

Phil Jackson was coach of the Chicago Bulls and, later, the Los Angeles Lakers.

Undoubtedly, there are atheists who oppose the Chicago Bulls and/or the Los Angeles Lakers.

And by association, they are against Phil Jackson.

Phil Jackson is a student/practitioner of Zen.

By association, then, these atheists come to hate Zen.

That, mis amigos, is how an atheist could come to oppose Zen.

So they don't like basketball......? And that's why they hate zen?

Not really. Think about it. for all these years, prayers are condemned in schools, the pledge with the words "Under God" is now not encouraged to be said, all Christian symbolism is systematically removed, and now they want to teach Islam? you see, with all of the anti-christian rulings in place, why allow Islam free access to the schools? That's favoring one religion over another.None of those things you've mentioned involve the teaching of Christianity, they involve the forcing of it on people.

This was news a while ago. I don't give two shits what religions they teach from a historical perspective in school but I want them to tell the whole story. That includes christianity and judaism as well. I want the history of the atrocites commitedby said religions to be spelled out. Such is far from the current case with either judaism or islam, and it's very poorly done with christianity.

Why should we not have prayer in the classroom? I would not want my teachers telling me how to pray, do you want your teachers telling you how to do it?
The problem is that it's been extended to openly ridicule, shun and sometimes punish anyone who does so individually.

Not really. Think about it. for all these years, prayers are condemned in schools, the pledge with the words "Under God" is now not encouraged to be said, all Christian symbolism is systematically removed, and now they want to teach Islam? you see, with all of the anti-christian rulings in place, why allow Islam free access to the schools? That's favoring one religion over another.

I, as a Christian, would allow Islam to be taught, but then turn around and demand the same to be allowed for Christian Teachings using the Islam classes as the prescident. thus if it's then refused, then the Christians can take it to the courts an show the favoritisms as well as the Unconstitutional favoring of one religion over another.

But that's me.
But it is. In 8th grade history i was taught about Jesus, Ponchus Pilot, Religious persecution of Christians in Rome, the Catholic Church, Martin Luther and the Potestants. It's taught much more in-depth than Islam.

The problem is that it's been extended to openly ridicule, shun and sometimes punish anyone who does so individually.
The problem with "individually" is that it usually isn't by an individual; it's by a group of people who ridicule and shun those who don't.

Now here is an idea:
Have some sort of Religion (you could call it "Ethics") class in school for the kiddies. Every half a semester or so you go through a religion and learn what it is about:
-Christianity
-Islam
-Judaism
-Buddhism
-Hinduism
-Taoism and other Chinese things
-Other
You outlaw any praying, any reference to a specific god as the "right" one in the school, and all the kids learn is about the properties of this specific religion.
Then they can decide later for themselves, being well informed.

But it is. In 8th grade history i was taught about Jesus, Ponchus Pilot, Religious persecution of Christians in Rome, the Catholic Church, Martin Luther and the Potestants. It's taught much more in-depth than Islam.
When history was taught in High School, it was usually Western history. The United States and the rest of the western world was far more influenced by Christianity than Islam, so it makes sense you'd go into more detail.

Which leads me to my question: Why are conservatives against the teaching about Islam in school? How is Islam considered liberal?
I am not against the teaching of Islam in school; and I am a conservative.

What I'm against is teaching only about Islam. A friend of mine's sister, up in Massachusetts, learns only about Islam in school.

I'm talking about public schools here, for clarification.

Personally, I don't think that schools should go anywhere beyond tolerance education, or teaching only what is absolutely necessary to understand why certain events in history occured. Religion is a spiritual choice which should only be influenced the people you feel comfortable with; not the public school system.

This is our tax money, going to support education about only Islam. If you don't see a First Amendment violation there, where do you see it?

I think it's currently a tit-for-tat situation. With the ACLU running around to every town and school and screaming "NO (Christianity) RELIGION!", shouldn't it equally apply to Islam?
Yes, of course. But if conservatives want to keep Christian symbolism plastered all over the place, why not allow Islamic crap through the filter too?

The thing is, people are against special treatment for a specific minority. Yes, Muslims are a minority in the US because about 80% of Americans are Christians, although that is an underestimation. Why not favor Hinduism or Judaism? Why not? Because schools want to teach kids that the only correct religion is the godless one. They are teaching kids that religions are incorrect and are covering it up by asking kids to not be offended. They want kids to believe that people came from apes. Unless someone was there with a video camera filming evolution, I don't want to be told that there is noone upstairs(figuratively, of course) and that there just happened to be matter forever. Scientists say that we came from apes because apes and people are simillar. I also don't know why people are against others openly practicing religion is schools when the governmetn is supposed to stay out of religion. Banning its practices is not staying out of it. I was taught about Islam in geography btw. It shaped the world. Why else would we have had 9-11 happen? But, then again, other religions also shaped the world even more, so we're back at square one.

When I was in junior high I was taught about all* of the major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhism) and what they stood for, but I saw a story online about conservatives seeing a liberal bias in k-12 schools (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/csm/cbill). Now, I am liberal and I am a junior of a public school and I do notice it. There isn't too much debate about that, and it isn't what I want to know.

The conservative groups that were opposed to the bias were, for whatever reason, opposed to teachers informing students about Islam. I attended 7th grade history and the only things they taught us about the religion is breifly of Abraham, Mecca, and the meaning of jihad (since it was just past 9/11, I suppose).

Which leads me to my question: Why are conservatives against the teaching about Islam in school? How is Islam considered liberal?

Islam is not liberal and neither is the bias infecting our public schools. It is socialists that have stolen the term liberal and applied to themselves. What they have in common with Islam is that they hate America and both want to change it to fit their own agenda. It is a matter of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Most conservatives really wouldn't care if their kids were familiarized with all major religons, however, leftist organizations such as the ACLU and other special interest groups have mounted a decade long assault to destroy this country from within, by in part attempting to erase our history through the courts and so called political correctness. Allowing the teaching of Islam while eliminating the religon this country was founded on comes much closer to an establishing a government approved religon than swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god.
Until such time that public schools are either returned to local control, or the governemnt figures out that discriminatory practices in hiring at the University level is just as wrong as it is anywhere else, this is the fight we are stuck with.
Another reason many cannot accept the teaching of Islam is that it is the only major religon that advocates violent revenge in its teachings.

That, mis amigos, is how an atheist could come to oppose Zen.


Is not the best way to oppose Zen by supporting Zen?

Now here is an idea:
Have some sort of Religion (you could call it "Ethics") class in school for the kiddies. Every half a semester or so you go through a religion and learn what it is about:
....

Why call it 'Ethics' when it patently isn't a course in ethics? In the UK we call such classes 'Religious Education', which seems to serve the purpose well enough - it isn't neccessarilly education in a religious manner, but rather about religious matters.

Its all part of MY evil plan to wipe out all people with funny accents.
YOUR NEXT ENGLAND!

Liverbreath']Another reason many cannot accept the teaching of Islam is that it is the only major religon that advocates violent revenge in its teachings.

"Eye for an eye, Tooth for a tooth!"

Oh boy, maybe all good right-thinking Americans should move into the woods and start a second country. They could call it RUSA - The Real United States of America. There they could teach their kids that apes are different from us because they are much more furry, that Muslims are different from us because they wear towels on their heads and they speak strange, devious languages. They wouldn't have to teach anything else.

Why call it 'Ethics' when it patently isn't a course in ethics? In the UK we call such classes 'Religious Education', which seems to serve the purpose well enough - it isn't neccessarilly education in a religious manner, but rather about religious matters.

I was about to say, Britain got there first, but you beat me to it.

(I have to point out, though, there's still something of a Christian bias in the UK version... case in point, marriage ceremonies. We were basically taught the entirety of the Catholic vows. Other religions? Not a word on it. That may just have been my school, though... probably was)

Why call it 'Ethics' when it patently isn't a course in ethics? In the UK we call such classes 'Religious Education', which seems to serve the purpose well enough - it isn't neccessarilly education in a religious manner, but rather about religious matters.

I don't care what they call it as long as it isn't biased towards any one of them.
Religions should have some sort of ethics at their centre. Usually that has long been forgotten, but what the heck.

The New York State curriculum is closely regulated, as everybody takes the World History regents at the end of 10th grade (I'm taking it in less than 2 weeks). It doesn't matter what the teacher wants to teach, everyone ends up learning a lot about religion. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are of course the major ones, while there's also some about Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism etc. Mostly you have to know who founded it, what the major principles are, how the religion spread and changed, and in some cases what people did in their gods name. There are also often questions about conflicts caused by different religions, and why some hate each other so much.

You don't know standardized testing until you go through the New York State school system.
Liverbreath']Islam is not liberal and neither is the bias infecting our public schools. It is socialists that have stolen the term liberal and applied to themselves. What they have in common with Islam is that they hate America and both want to change it to fit their own agenda. It is a matter of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Most conservatives really wouldn't care if their kids were familiarized with all major religons, however, leftist organizations such as the ACLU and other special interest groups have mounted a decade long assault to destroy this country from within, by in part attempting to erase our history through the courts and so called political correctness. Allowing the teaching of Islam while eliminating the religon this country was founded on comes much closer to an establishing a government approved religon than swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god.
Until such time that public schools are either returned to local control, or the governemnt figures out that discriminatory practices in hiring at the University level is just as wrong as it is anywhere else, this is the fight we are stuck with.
Another reason many cannot accept the teaching of Islam is that it is the only major religon that advocates violent revenge in its teachings.
Right wing paranoid nutjob here! 2 dollars to see the nutjob, and just 5 dollars to hear him spout paranoia! This is a truly once in a lifetime opportunity, folks!

I was about to say, Britain got there first, but you beat me to it.

(I have to point out, though, there's still something of a Christian bias in the UK version... case in point, marriage ceremonies. We were basically taught the entirety of the Catholic vows. Other religions? Not a word on it. That may just have been my school, though... probably was)

No, I think that is universal in the UK (excepting those schools which focus on a different particular religion), and the particular shade of Christianity that dominates is determined by the religious leanings of your school (we got taught the commandments in the Protestant formulation).*


Of course, the way it was taught was: here is six and a half years of talk about Christianity, and then we'll cram a nod of the head to other faiths when you're too busy panicing over A-levels to pay any attention.




* this is a hideously badly written sentence, in case it escaped your notice.

Religions should have some sort of ethics at their centre. Usually that has long been forgotten, but what the heck.

From whence comes this 'should'? - in order to assert that all religions should have ethics at their centre you first need an ethical system which allows you to make and justify such a claim.

No, I think that is universal in the UK (excepting those schools which focus on a different particular religion), and the particular shade of Christianity that dominates is determined by the religious leanings of your school (we got taught the commandments in the Protestant formulation).*


Of course, the way it was taught was: here is six and a half years of talk about Christianity, and then we'll cram a nod of the head to other faiths when you're too busy panicing over A-levels to pay any attention.




* this is a hideously badly written sentence, in case it escaped your notice.

Ah, we had it /slightly/ better than that. Five years of religion, with maybe a term for each of the non-Christian ones (except for Buddhism, we got a lot of that). And about six lessons spent watching 'Gandhi' for no reason that anyone could discern other than that our teacher liked it. We were studying Christianity again at that time... weird stuff.

Liverbreath']Islam is not liberal and neither is the bias infecting our public schools. It is socialists that have stolen the term liberal and applied to themselves. What they have in common with Islam is that they hate America and both want to change it to fit their own agenda. It is a matter of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Most conservatives really wouldn't care if their kids were familiarized with all major religons, however, leftist organizations such as the ACLU and other special interest groups have mounted a decade long assault to destroy this country from within, by in part attempting to erase our history through the courts and so called political correctness. Allowing the teaching of Islam while eliminating the religon this country was founded on comes much closer to an establishing a government approved religon than swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god.
Until such time that public schools are either returned to local control, or the governemnt figures out that discriminatory practices in hiring at the University level is just as wrong as it is anywhere else, this is the fight we are stuck with.
Another reason many cannot accept the teaching of Islam is that it is the only major religon that advocates violent revenge in its teachings.

What part advocates violence? The part where you're told to accept everyone for who they are? The part where you're told not to take revenge because god will take care of it. The part that tells you that even if you hate someone and want them to die, you should invite them into your home and treat them well, because once again god will take care of it. Or maybe the title, Islam, which translates to peace.

You don't know anything about Islam. You're just a xenophobic idiot who makes stuff up about other groups to justify your own racism and prejuduce.

everyones so anti-christian right now... why not be anti-islam... and plus, islamic extremists attacked us. we SHOULD be kind of wary of them. they're the fasting growing religion in the world. and the fanatic part of it is growing fast too... like it or not, the US is based on christian principles. and it should be. think about it. if you erased all christian principles killing would be a crime, but it wouldn't be "wrong". it's only illegal because the founders of western nations were christian and they used bible law in their governments. same with adulery (although that's not illegal) i think it is definately wrong... and i'm not religious at all. i'm like agnostic. i beleive in god, but i have no faith...

contrasting to christianity.. in islam... killing non-muslims is a GOOD thing... well maybe not good, but if you're "protecting islam" it's ok. you'd be a hero. think of all the wackos running around killing saying it's in the name of allah? NO WAY MAN. but then. if it wasnt for christian principles, i wouldnt think islam was wrong. hm. we cant ditch principles though. it's really tough what should you... what our country should do.

osama... :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :sniper:

Of course, the way it was taught was: here is six and a half years of talk about Christianity, and then we'll cram a nod of the head to other faiths when you're too busy panicing over A-levels to pay any attention.


In my school only the first and second form had mandatory RE. After that it was optional, and didn't resurface unless you took it as an o'level in fourth form. I think those years were all about Christianity, but I wouldn't know because I was excused early to play sports.

Saying that we had a religious assembly every morning. One with hymns and shit. :mad:

http://www.sperryfiles.com/

All of Islam in the US is controlled by Wahabbi(the sect the Taliban were of) Saudi Arabia. Sure there are moderates like the Sufis and some Shi'a and Sunnis. But they are not prominent enough to do anything effectively, not even that Muslims Against Terror March that occurred like 2-3 weeks ago, which only drew 50 Muslims...

Is not the best way to oppose Zen by supporting Zen?
What's the sound of an atheist's prayer?

they're the fasting growing religion in the world.
Well, they don't fast all that often...
and i'm not religious at all. i'm like agnostic. i beleive in god, but i have no faith...
Being agnostic means believing the existance of God is not known or not knowable.
contrasting to christianity.. in islam... killing non-muslims is a GOOD thing...
Huh?
Give us a source, perhaps?

I have nothing against teaching Islam, in fact I encourage it. However, I notice that the same people that want us to teach Islam want to sue you if you teach Christianity. Why not teach them all and let people decide for themselves?