NationStates Jolt Archive

I guess what I'm really trying to say is what if Christianity and the Papacy didn't have their hold on the European world during the Dark Ages? Would the world still be the same as it is now? We would we have more "futuristic" stuff?

I guess what I'm really trying to say is what if Christianity and the Papacy didn't have their hold on the European world during the Dark Ages? Would the world still be the same as it is now? We would we have more "futuristic" stuff?
The Dark Ages didn't come as a result of Christianity and the Church, but from the collapse of the Roman Empire and the occupation of Europe of barbaric tribes moving in from the east. In fact, the Catholic Church actually preserved a lot of Roman knowledge that made the Dark Ages shorter.

If Rome had avoided the fall... maybe, but you still have to consider that without the descendants of those barbarians the Renaissance may not have happened.

The Dark Ages didn't come as a result of Christianity and the Church, but from the collapse of the Roman Empire and the occupation of Europe of barbaric tribes moving in from the east. In fact, the Catholic Church actually preserved a lot of Roman knowledge that made the Dark Ages shorter.
I think he's talking about how the Catholic Church gained such authority and power in the Middle Ages. God is merely a remnant of the Middle Ages, a time when people didn't even know what caused rain. As such, the church billed itself as a direct pipeline to god, and because the most influential force in Europe. The church had a plot of land the size of modern day Germany and Italy combined. Popes could get kings to do whatever they wanted. He's asking how the world would be different if this had never happened, if Rome had picked itself back up and hadn't been destroyed.

For one there would be less stock in god, second there would be higher technology. I don't want to go beyond that, because "What if?" questions can never really be answered well. It's all speculation.

I think he's talking about how the Catholic Church gained such authority and power in the Middle Ages. God is merely a remnant of the Middle Ages, a time when people didn't even know what caused rain. As such, the church billed itself as a direct pipeline to god, and because the most influential force in Europe. The church had a plot of land the size of modern day Germany and Italy combined. Popes could get kings to do whatever they wanted. He's asking how the world would be different if this had never happened, if Rome had picked itself back up and hadn't been destroyed.


Yeah.

Christians need to be lined up and shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sniper:
bit of an over reaction dont u think i mean what about jews, muslims, hindus, jedi, satanists, goths, chavs, bofs, celts, pagans, the welsh? u cant just leave them if gonna do it properly at least do it right. By killing everybody u eliminate the sense of persecution

follow that line of thinking, and you'll just wind up killing everyone though. I'm sure all those groups have at least one distinctive trait that they all share, so it would be persecution of a sort.

I guess I'm saying, just blow up the whole world and be done with it.

*The preceding post was a relatively lame attempt at scorn and sarcasm*

I think he's talking about how the Catholic Church gained such authority and power in the Middle Ages. God is merely a remnant of the Middle Ages, a time when people didn't even know what caused rain. As such, the church billed itself as a direct pipeline to god, and because the most influential force in Europe. The church had a plot of land the size of modern day Germany and Italy combined. Popes could get kings to do whatever they wanted. He's asking how the world would be different if this had never happened, if Rome had picked itself back up and hadn't been destroyed.

For one there would be less stock in god, second there would be higher technology. I don't want to go beyond that, because "What if?" questions can never really be answered well. It's all speculation.

Nope sorry, wrong. The Catholic Church (an idea that had no groundwork in Jesus' teachings) was founded by Emperor Constantine as a political move to restore Roman authority. At the time Roman Citizens were voluntarily converting to Christianity by the million even though they could be killed merely for being Christian because previous Emperors viewed them as a threat to Imperial authority. Constantine however saw an opportunity. He, instead of killing Christians, became one himself, founded the "Catholic" church (Latin catholicus, meaning "universal"), and then set himself up as its head so that he may control ALL Christians. It was a political move, nothing more. If it hadn't happened the Roman citizenry would still be Christian by a massive majority. The world would still be Christian if Rome hadn't fallen, it wouldn't be worshiping Jupiter and Mars and it certainly wouldn't be Atheist.

It did fall. When it did, the Catholic Church remained with the Pope as its figure head, it still claimed to have "universal" authority over Christians, but it just couldn't enforce it as well. Enter Charlemagne, the leader of a reunified Frankish kingdom, the most powerful kingdom in Europe at the time. A deal was brokered to give Charlemagne "divine right" to be king if he supported the Catholic Church. Thus, the Church regained tangible power. It would maintain its power for centuries to come by similar means.

So ya, if Rome hadn't fell Christianity would still be the world's largest religion. Sorry to disappoint. The Dark Ages lie solely on you unwashed, pagan Aryan savages. :p

Oh and check this out, it's based around this idea.

http://www.imperatoronline.com/

I guess what I'm really trying to say is what if Christianity and the Papacy didn't have their hold on the European world during the Dark Ages? Would the world still be the same as it is now? We would we have more "futuristic" stuff?

You'ld have to attempt an extrapolation from the previous periods, as to what would have resulted had the Holy Roman Empire not arrisen from Rome's ashes. In which case, the continent, as opposed to be under domination by the Astrogoths and Visigoths, and Gauls; would have been overrun by the Huns even more, or rather, left in their control for longer periods. Later expansionism vis. the Turks, would have resulted in long-term warfare from the seperate warior tribes, over conquested Europe (Turk vs. Hun). Likewise, it would not have "created" a situation where the "enlightenment" could have occured sooner... Thus replacing the Theocratic Regime of Rome, with that fractionated and militant warrior states. (Not really much better). If anything, the dark ages, brought by Rome's total domination over the sphere of Europe; the framework whereby the Reformation, and subsequent (and reliant) Enlightenment occured.

Another option is the asumption of the constant state of the Roman Empire, lacking internal division, could have continued in line without fracture after Didius Julianus. In which case, power could have maintained which would have left the Goths under Roman dominion, and been a strong power against the tides of Turks and Huns later in the millenium. This may have been more "positive" and left the Roman Republic a constant force in Europe, Africa, and Asia...

It is of course, all speculation.