NationStates Jolt Archive

Wow. The police were really taking a chance on pepper spray. There are police in the US who have been killed by the same sort of sword when trying to subdue the subject with pepper spray. It doesn't always work. The main problem is that you have to get within the sword's striking distance to use the spray, and the spray doesn't affect everyone it hits.

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Ein Toter nach Amoklauf in Stuttgarter Kirche

Übersicht

Bei einem Amoklauf in einer evangelisch- methodistischen Kirche in Stuttgart ist heute ein Mensch getötet worden. Mehrere Menschen wurden verletzt, drei davon schwer. Eine Frau soll in Lebensgefahr schweben. Der Täter wurde festgenommen.

Nach Polizeiangaben feierten in der Kirche zum Tatzeitpunkt Dutzende Gläubige - vor allem Tamilen und Inder - einen Gottesdienst. Der 25-jährige Täter, angeblich ebenfalls Tamile, stürmte in das Gotteshaus und schlug mit einem Samuraischwert um sich.

"Bild des Grauens"

"Abgeschlagene Gliedmaßen liegen in der Kirche herum", sagte eine Sprecherin der Polizei. Die Beamten hätten "ein Bild des Grauens vorgefunden". Die Polizei überwältigte den Täter mit Pfefferspray. Das Tatmotiv liege vermutlich in seiner familiären Situation, sagte ein Polizeisprecher.

Die Polizei war von Anrainern der Kirche alarmiert worden, die am Nachmittag kurz vor 16.00 Uhr sehr lautes Geschrei aus der Kirche gehört hatten. 65 geschockte Gottesdienstbesucher wurden von den Einsatzkräften betreut. Angeblich soll der Mann schon früher Kirchenbesucher bedroht haben.

And here's an example in the US of pepper spray having no effect:
http://www.metrokc.gov/proatty/news/2003/herzpr.htm

:rolleyes: Its always some nutter with a samurai sword.

But your right, pepper spray has been proven not to work effectively on many occasions.

:rolleyes: Its always some nutter with a samurai sword.

But your right, pepper spray has been proven not to work effectively on many occasions.

Too bad you weren't there with sword in hand. Would have been interesting to see a trained swordsman face a nutty amateur.

Messy, though. I'm sure it would have take more than a mop and a bucket to clean him off the floor.

They should use mustard gas. No! just mustard!

Too bad you weren't there with sword in hand. Would have been interesting to see a trained swordsman face a nutty amateur.

Messy, though. I'm sure it would have take more than a mop and a bucket to clean him off the floor.

Thing is, its usually some stainless steel piece o crap thats just as dangerous to the person swinging the damn thing. The b******s give people in my hobby a bad name. But I wouldn't face anyone, i'm not that skilled, i need to practise more.

Besides, in this case, laying the guy out with a baton would be more effective.

Thing is, its usually some stainless steel piece o crap thats just as dangerous to the person swinging the damn thing. The b******s give people in my hobby a bad name. But I wouldn't face anyone, i'm not that skilled, i need to practise more.

Besides, in this case, laying the guy out with a baton would be more effective.

There's a funny video I saw of some home shopping TV channel selling a stainless steel "ninja" sword. The demonstrator was bragging about how durable the stainless steel was, and he whacked it side-on on the counter.

The blade shattered into pieces, and the tip somehow came flying back at him and embedded itself in his abdomen - all the way.

He collapsed behind the counter, and the camera kept running, and he said, "oh, it really got me."

I've always favored knives made of L6 tool steel. Sure, I have to worry about rust, but it sharpens well and is very tough. Under real stress, it can bend and take a set, but it can be bent back without harm. Very unlikely to shatter.

what about mace?

what about mace?

the big pointy, club-like weapon or the spray?

the big pointy, club-like weapon or the spray?

the spray but now we are on it what do we reckon would be most effective? :D

There's a funny video I saw of some home shopping TV channel selling a stainless steel "ninja" sword. The demonstrator was bragging about how durable the stainless steel was, and he whacked it side-on on the counter.

The blade shattered into pieces, and the tip somehow came flying back at him and embedded itself in his abdomen - all the way.

He collapsed behind the counter, and the camera kept running, and he said, "oh, it really got me."

I've always favored knives made of L6 tool steel. Sure, I have to worry about rust, but it sharpens well and is very tough. Under real stress, it can bend and take a set, but it can be bent back without harm. Very unlikely to shatter.

Yup this one

- finding link thats not on ebaumsworld -

56K modem warning of course.

Never touch a sword made of stainless steel. Thing is, afterwards, as it only pricked him, he didn't even bleed much, apparently they said he was playing it up a bit. Still prob suprised him a bit.

L6 is one hell of a good steel. Of course any carbon steel, properly heat treated of course, is the right kinda stuff you want. 5012 is a very good kind too.

what about mace?

Even less effective than pepper spray. I, for one, am immune to Mace and CS. This caused no end of consternation at basic training (where we had to deliberately unmask in a room full of CS gas). I stayed in there 15 minutes before the drill sergeants gave up trying to get me to react to it.

I remember doing pushups and telling about myself while inhaling deeply.

Besides, you have to get within blade reach of the sword wielder to be effective. If he was not an amateur, but actually someone who knew how to use the sword, when you put your arm out to spray, he would take it off in a split second.

There's a video of an attempt by police armed with guns to restrain a man armed with a sword more to Kellarly's liking - it's a two handed sword - and they keep their guns in their holsters, thinking that they can just grapple with him (after all, there are so many police present).

The swordsman, on video, guts the first officer with a single, expert stroke.

Then the cops woke up and shot him. Never, ever come within blade reach of someone with a sword. If you survive, it is because you were lucky.

the spray but now we are on it what do we reckon would be most effective? :D

both, i would say. spray first and bludgeon the person to death while they are blinded. but if i had to choose between one or the other i would go for the spray.

both, i would say. spray first and bludgeon the person to death while they are blinded. but if i had to choose between one or the other i would go for the spray.

There's an interesting video from here in the US where a crazy guy with a samurai sword is being confronted by police. They use pepper spray, and "bean bag" rounds from a shotgun (non-lethal rounds intended to knock people down without really hurting them).

None of those options work.

Fortunately, he's outside, and some bright wag gets the fire department to bring up a hose, and they pin him to the wall with the stream of water. Eventually, he can't stand up and he can't hold on to the sword.

Ok, i can't find a functioning link out side of ebaumsworld. If you wish to see the video, google it :D

Point still stands, stainless steel swords are NOT for use at all. They can be nice to look at though.

Wasn't there some kind of rapidly setting epoxy or resin that hardened up once you sprayed it on someone? I remember it was withdrawn later because it had a tendency to cover up the mouth and nose, suffocating the guy you were supposed to subdue.

Wasn't there some kind of rapidly setting epoxy or resin that hardened up once you sprayed it on someone? I remember it was withdrawn later because it had a tendency to cover up the mouth and nose, suffocating the guy you were supposed to subdue.

It's called sticky foam. It's been used experimentally by the US military, who have stopped using it. Too bulky to carry a canister on your back that has just enough foam to stop one person.

That, and if you hit the face, it's lethal because you can't get it off fast enough, even with the release agent.

It is still used in stationary locations at Los Alamos, at the entryways to restricted areas. Try to force the door, or have an invalid badge swipe, and the foam fills the entire hall.

They don't care if it kills you.

I remember hearing something about paintballs filled with irritants. That would keep you out of range, but I guess it wouldn't matter if they were immune to it.

I remember reading about that foam thing in a chemistry textbook, and thinking that it would suffocate someone if it hit thier mouth. I guess I thought right.

I remember hearing something about paintballs filled with irritants. That would keep you out of range, but I guess it wouldn't matter if they were immune to it.

I remember reading about that foam thing in a chemistry textbook, and thinking that it would suffocate someone if it hit thier mouth. I guess I thought right.

I still think that one solution used against a sword in the US, the fire hose, is pretty effective if you have the time and place to get it ready.

I'm sure you could drag a fire hose into the church, and I don't think a sword makes any difference against a strong stream of water.

I'm sure you could drag a fire hose into the church, and I don't think a sword makes any difference against a strong stream of water.

Or a 40mm block of wood launched out of an underbarrel mounted M203. Those things hurt plenty.