NationStates Jolt Archive


Do you think that the gay rights movement is militant?

Swimmingpool
10-06-2005, 08:53
A lot of people (conservatives) sure seem to think so. I don't. Where are the armed gay militia groups?
Crimson Sith
10-06-2005, 08:55
Oh God, I knew you were going to do this. :D
Cabra West
10-06-2005, 09:08
Militant??? In what way militant?
Undelia
10-06-2005, 09:13
Well I think I saw some at the Gap. Everyone knows they like to hang out there, just look at those commercials. Its where they hold their secret meetings. And the hair care. Obviously its just a front for some sort of chemical weapons depot. You only need to look at all those peaceful protest to determine that they are up to something. NOBODY IS THAT PEACFUL DANG IT!!!! We have to act now before we're all wearing pink sweaters and listening to Barbara Streisand. For the sake of good taste, open your eyes man!
Martel France
10-06-2005, 09:18
Michael Swift

First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987

"Gay Revolutionary" from Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987. (reprinted from The Congressional Record, with preface restored


We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us.

Women, you cry for freedom. You say you are no longer satisfied with men; they make you unhappy. We, connoisseurs of the masculine face, the masculine physique, shall take your men from you then. We will amuse them; we will instruct them; we will embrace them when they weep. Women, you say you wish to live with each other instead of with men. Then go and be with each other. We shall give your men pleasures they have never known because we are foremost men too, and only one man knows how to truly please another man; only one man can understand the depth and feeling, the mind and body of another man.

All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men.

All homosexuals must stand together as brothers; we must be united artistically, philosophically, socially, politically and financially. We will triumph only when we present a common face to the vicious heterosexual enemy.

If you dare to cry faggot, fairy, queer, at us, we will stab you in your cowardly hearts and defile your dead, puny bodies.

We shall write poems of the love between men; we shall stage plays in which man openly caresses man; we shall make films about the love between heroic men which will replace the cheap, superficial, sentimental, insipid, juvenile, heterosexual infatuations presently dominating your cinema screens. We shall sculpt statues of beautiful young men, of bold athletes which will be placed in your parks, your squares, your plazas. The museums of the world will be filled only with paintings of graceful, naked lads.

Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable and de rigueur, and we will succeed because we are adept at setting styles. We will eliminate heterosexual liaisons through usage of the devices of wit and ridicule, devices which we are skilled in employing.

We will unmask the powerful homosexuals who masquerade as heterosexuals. You will be shocked and frightened when you find that your presidents and their sons, your industrialists, your senators, your mayors, your generals, your athletes, your film stars, your television personalities, your civic leaders, your priests are not the safe, familiar, bourgeois, heterosexual figures you assumed them to be. We are everywhere; we have infiltrated your ranks. Be careful when you speak of homosexuals because we are always among you; we may be sitting across the desk from you; we may be sleeping in the same bed with you.

There will be no compromises. We are not middle-class weaklings. Highly intelligent, we are the natural aristocrats of the human race, and steely-minded aristocrats never settle for less. Those who oppose us will be exiled.

We shall raise vast private armies, as Mishima did, to defeat you. We shall conquer the world because warriors inspired by and banded together by homosexual love and honor are invincible as were the ancient Greek soldiers.

The family unit-spawning ground of lies, betrayals, mediocrity, hypocrisy and violence--will be abolished. The family unit, which only dampens imagination and curbs free will, must be eliminated. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory. They will be bonded together in communal setting, under the control and instruction of homosexual savants.

All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. We adhere to a cult of beauty, moral and esthetic. All that is ugly and vulgar and banal will be annihilated. Since we are alienated from middle-class heterosexual conventions, we are free to live our lives according to the dictates of the pure imagination. For us too much is not enough.

The exquisite society to emerge will be governed by an elite comprised of gay poets. One of the major requirements for a position of power in the new society of homoeroticism will be indulgence in the Greek passion. Any man contaminated with heterosexual lust will be automatically barred from a position of influence. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men.

We shall rewrite history, history filled and debased with your heterosexual lies and distortions. We shall portray the homosexuality of the great leaders and thinkers who have shaped the world. We will demonstrate that homosexuality and intelligence and imagination are inextricably linked, and that homosexuality is a requirement for true nobility, true beauty in a man.

We shall be victorious because we are fueled with the ferocious bitterness of the oppressed who have been forced to play seemingly bit parts in your dumb, heterosexual shows throughout the ages. We too are capable of firing guns and manning the barricades of the ultimate revolution.

Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.
Texpunditistan
10-06-2005, 09:27
Michael Swift

First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987

"Gay Revolutionary" from Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987. (reprinted from The Congressional Record, with preface restored


We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us.

-snip-

Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.
Yep. I'd say that's pretty militant.

Maybe we should lock up all gay people as "enemy combatants". :p
Free Soviets
10-06-2005, 09:41
Where are the armed gay militia groups?

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

not technically militant though. and most of the militant radical queers i know aren't very well armed.
Hakartopia
10-06-2005, 09:51
Violence is so heterosexual.
New Exeter
10-06-2005, 10:00
There are violent/militant people in EVERY group that exists.
Blackfoot Barrens
10-06-2005, 10:01
Even Pacifism.

"Be peaceful or I'll BLOW YER FECKIN HEAD OFF!"
Texpunditistan
10-06-2005, 10:05
D00d...homosexuals are gay.

:p

And with that... I sleep. :zzz:
NERVUN
10-06-2005, 10:06
*snip*
Nan da HELL? Did someone write a homosexual version of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion?
Martel France
10-06-2005, 10:12
Nan da HELL? Did someone write a homosexual version of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion?


Yes, homosexuals did...
Non Aligned States
10-06-2005, 10:24
Whoever this Micheal Swift is, I wonder if he ever thought that if he had his way, the human race would be extinct within a generation?
NERVUN
10-06-2005, 10:25
Ah! I found it, you left a bit off the top part (the joys of Google and orginal sources).

In short, your post SHOULD have had:

"This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."

before the rest, which makes the rest make MUCH more sence... unless of course you were trying for something else, like the use of this rant to further an anti-homosexual agenda like all the wonderful web pages I had to crawl through to find the orginial, which was strangly not linked to.

*I feel like I need a shower, stupid hate sites*
Martel France
10-06-2005, 10:36
Ah! I found it, you left a bit off the top part (the joys of Google and orginal sources).

In short, your post SHOULD have had:

"This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."

before the rest, which makes the rest make MUCH more sence... unless of course you were trying for something else, like the use of this rant to further an anti-homosexual agenda like all the wonderful web pages I had to crawl through to find the orginial, which was strangly not linked to.

*I feel like I need a shower, stupid hate sites*

Sorry, I didn't get it off that pro-gay site, I got it off a site that warns us of what is going on inside the mind of most gays.
NERVUN
10-06-2005, 10:41
Sorry, I didn't get it off that pro-gay site, I got it off a site that warns us of what is going on inside the mind of most gays.
Well, now you know that the essay in question isn't a policy statement at all, but rather a work of satire, a power wish (like those we've all had, when we wanted to be able to abuse those who have abused us with impunity), and not what is going on in the minds of homosexuals at all.

Learn something new every day and the day is not a total waste then. :)
The Mindset
10-06-2005, 10:45
Sorry, I didn't get it off that pro-gay site, I got it off a site that warns us of what is going on inside the mind of most gays.

Someone sounds paranoid. Are you that insecure in your own sexuality that you believe we could "convert" you?
Dolarosa
10-06-2005, 10:47
1. I don't think the movement as a whole can be militant. There are a lot of reading circles and discussion groups in the queer rights movement. I don't think anyone would count those as militant. Many people within the movement fight for gay marriage, while there are some radical groups that would like to see the abolishment of the institution of marriage itself. So, it runs the gamut.

2. That Michael Swift piece - was that really discussed in Congress? Jeebus. You can read it however you want, but I read it as overwhelmingly satirical - how can you really take it seriously? It's painting the stereotypical "Gay Revolutionary" image that some ultra-conservative people are so afraid of - some kind of "queer conspiracy" to convert the children of America. Yet, take for example the Boy Scouts, whose only reason for booting queer counselors out was that they feared the counselors would molest little boys... even though they knew full well that studies have consistently shown that heterosexual men are far more likely to molest children than homosexual men. These fears aren't based in fact, they're based in homophobia. And that someone can say that this piece of extreme satire, which doesn't even actually represent the opinion of the person who wrote it, is "what's going on in the minds of most gays," shows just how much misunderstanding there is of the fact that homosexuals are actually just the same as everyone else, except for gender preference.

3. It's all fun and games to joke about putting all queers in jail and fashion stereotypes when you assume you're among just heterosexuals, but just remember, sometimes you aren't, and you might just be stereotyping a person right to their face.

4. Heterosexuality is so violent. ;)
Martel France
10-06-2005, 10:49
http://www.covenantnews.com/dirkhising.htm
The Mindset
10-06-2005, 10:52
http://www.covenantnews.com/dirkhising.htm
Gya men are still men, and therefore still capable of committing the same crimes that anyone else is. However, gay men are statistically less violent than straight men, and heterosexual abuse of young children is statistically much higher than homosexual abuse of young children.

If you're assuming that all homosexuals want to rape young boys due to one crime by two gay men, then I should assume you want to rape young girls because of one arbitary case involving a heterosexual.
Martel France
10-06-2005, 10:54
Gya men are still men, and therefore still capable of committing the same crimes that anyone else is. However, gay men are statistically less violent than straight men, and heterosexual abuse of young children is statistically much higher than homosexual abuse of young children.

If you're assuming that all homosexuals want to rape young boys due to one crime by two gay men, then I should assume you want to rape young girls because of one arbitary case involving a heterosexual.



Lie, homosexual men are MUCH more likely to assault boys, because the very nature of such a crime makes them homosexual.

Heterosexuals do not sexually assault people of the same sex, the definition of heterosexual would get in the way. If they do assault a same-sex person, it makes them at least bi-sexual.
The Mindset
10-06-2005, 10:56
Lie, homosexual men are MUCH more likely to assault boys, because the very nature of such a crime makes them homosexual.

Heterosexuals do not sexually assault people of the same sex, the definition of heterosexual would get in the way. If they do assault a same-sex person, it makes them at least bi-sexual.

Heterosexuals are statisically much more likely to abuse young children.
Martel France
10-06-2005, 10:57
Heterosexuals are statisically much more likely to abuse young children.


If they're men abusing boys, they are NOT heterosexuals.
The Mindset
10-06-2005, 10:58
If they're men abusing boys, they are NOT heterosexuals.
You're still assuming that homosexual abuse of boys is more common than heterosexual abuse of girls is. It isn't.
NERVUN
10-06-2005, 11:00
Lie, homosexual men are MUCH more likely to assault boys, because the very nature of such a crime makes them homosexual.

Heterosexuals do not sexually assault people of the same sex, the definition of heterosexual would get in the way. If they do assault a same-sex person, it makes them at least bi-sexual.
That makes no logical sense what-so-ever. I THINK what you"re attempting to say is that a heterosexual male can not assult a boy sexually as that would make him homosexual or bi-sexual, am I correct?

In any case, that is false as sexual assult has been used as a shame/punishment in many cases by heterosexual males to younger boys. In any case, the point being that of the total amount of child abuse, sexual or otherwise, cases, the vast majority is commited by heterosexual adults (and I use that term losely). Even looking at ratios, homosexuals are less likly to commit said crimes.

Of course there could be any number of reasons for the disparity, not just that homosexuals are nicer people.
Cadillac-Gage
10-06-2005, 11:16
A lot of people (conservatives) sure seem to think so. I don't. Where are the armed gay militia groups?

Not 'militant', strident, maybe, often obnoxious, Hysterical, and a bit too well-funded, but not militant. (BTW: There are Armed Gay orgs, but they're not affiliated with the "Official" movement and its leftwing lapdogs.)
Brizoa
10-06-2005, 11:21
http://www.pinkpistols.org/

not technically militant though. and most of the militant radical queers i know aren't very well armed.
Wow I must be a militant femmenist for not wanting to be raped/murdered. Maybe even more so since I live in a right to carry state. Who knew?
Monkeypimp
10-06-2005, 11:26
Considering the amount of times gay people get abused or physically attacked just because they're gay, I'd say the anti-gay movement tends to be more militant. That doesn't really answer your question though.
Neo Rogolia
10-06-2005, 11:31
You're still assuming that homosexual abuse of boys is more common than heterosexual abuse of girls is. It isn't.



That's odd, IIRC, pedorasty is far more common than it's counterpart.
Cadillac-Gage
10-06-2005, 11:33
Wow I must be a militant femmenist for not wanting to be raped/murdered. Maybe even more so since I live in a right to carry state. Who knew?

Nah, you're just smarter than the average Feminist who won't carry, and doesn't want anyone else to either.
you understand that surrendering to bullies doesn't keep you from being victimized, and it doesn't stop the bully from victimizing others.
The PP has something that the Media-Recognized gay movement lacks-the courage to take responsibility for their own safety, and the wisdom to understand that Society not only can not, but will not take that responsibility.
The Mindset
10-06-2005, 11:59
That's odd, IIRC, pedorasty is far more common than it's counterpart.
Pedorasty/pedophilia has nothing to do with the sexuality of those involved.
Brizoa
10-06-2005, 12:36
I'm curios why those people who continue to vilify homosexuals ignore what science has discovered about sexuality. Such as the fact that gay men have female pattern finger prints(1). Or that lesbians have male type inner ear stuctures(2).

1.prints (http://myweb.lsbu.ac.uk/~stafflag/pressgene.html#Fingerprints)

2. 1994 Behavioral Neuroscience vol 108 and March 7 1998 The economist

recommeded reading
biology daily (http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Homosexuality)
New Fuglies
10-06-2005, 13:08
I'm curios why those people who continue to vilify homosexuals ignore what science has discovered about sexuality.

It's called projection.
Swimmingpool
10-06-2005, 13:12
Oh God, I knew you were going to do this. :D

It was actually inspired by this quote:

I am not the only American who has a problem with all the gays forcing their militant gayism in our faces at virtual gun point.
I mean, seriously :rolleyes:

Michael Swift

First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987

"Gay Revolutionary" from Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987. (reprinted from The Congressional Record, with preface restored

-snip-
Man, that's fucking nuts!

Sorry, I didn't get it off that pro-gay site, I got it off a site that warns us of what is going on inside the mind of most gays.
Let me guess, www.stormfront.org

I'm not surprised you look there if you think that this is how most gays think!

Do you know any homosexuals?

Not 'militant', strident, maybe, often obnoxious, Hysterical, and a bit too well-funded, but not militant.
Yeah man those damn gays! They should just shut up and do what they're told! :rolleyes:

(BTW: There are Armed Gay orgs, but they're not affiliated with the "Official" movement and its leftwing lapdogs.)
I was waiting for someone to call me a communist for supporting gay rights.

Nah, you're just smarter than the average Feminist who won't carry, and doesn't want anyone else to either.
you understand that surrendering to bullies doesn't keep you from being victimized, and it doesn't stop the bully from victimizing others.
The PP has something that the Media-Recognized gay movement lacks-the courage to take responsibility for their own safety, and the wisdom to understand that Society not only can not, but will not take that responsibility.
I am fully in favour of American gays, and liberals too, arming themselves. :)
Tekania
10-06-2005, 13:26
That's odd, IIRC, pedorasty is far more common than it's counterpart.

pederasty (pederast); not pedorasty. From Greek (Paiderastes), pais, paid [child] (see Ped-) and erastes [lover] (from erasthai [to love]).

Greek roots meaning "love"
erasthai [lover, (sexual love)]
phile [beloved]
agape [love via goodwill, benevolent love]
Neo Rogolia
10-06-2005, 13:29
And I thought I was a spelling nazi :(
NERVUN
10-06-2005, 13:30
I was waiting for someone to call me a communist for supporting gay rights.
Ok, You Pinko (wearing) commie (choice of insulting status here), (gay bashing insult here) lover you! ;)
Chicken pi
10-06-2005, 13:34
Sorry, I didn't get it off that pro-gay site, I got it off a site that warns us of what is going on inside the mind of most gays.

Apparently the original was written as a satire of what people think goes on in the minds of homosexuals.

http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/GayAgenda.html

The Radical Religious Right has repeatedly referenced an article written by Michael Swift in 1987 at the request of the Gay Community News as satirical "proof" of the so-called "Gay Agenda". The article is titled "The Gay Manifesto".

As other posters have pointed out, the all-important preface was deliberately edited out.
Whispering Legs
10-06-2005, 13:44
A lot of people (conservatives) sure seem to think so. I don't. Where are the armed gay militia groups?

No, I don't think they are militant. Yes, there are gay shooting clubs and gay self defense groups that arm themselves with firearms.

I think that's a great idea. They have a saying, "Matthew Shepard would still be alive and well today if he had been carrying a gun."

Everyone has the right to defend themselves.

Oooh, and I'm a Republican conservative!
Martel France
10-06-2005, 13:59
No, I don't think they are militant. Yes, there are gay shooting clubs and gay self defense groups that arm themselves with firearms.

I think that's a great idea. They have a saying, "Matthew Shepard would still be alive and well today if he had been carrying a gun."

Everyone has the right to defend themselves.

Oooh, and I'm a Republican conservative!


Matthew Shepard would still be alive today if he hadn't been trolling for anonymous homosexual sex in a redneck bar in the middle of the night. And had he been able to take "no" for an answer, rathering than feeling up a heterosexual man.
Whispering Legs
10-06-2005, 14:02
Matthew Shepard would still be alive today if he hadn't been trolling for anonymous homosexual sex in a redneck bar in the middle of the night. And had he been able to take "no" for an answer, rathering than feeling up a heterosexual man.

So, you're saying that he "deserved" to die?

I think not. Oh, so the next time I go into a bar and troll for anonymous heterosexual sex in a redneck bar in the middle of the night, and can't take no for an answer, and feel up a heterosexual woman, it will be OK for them to take me out to the middle of nowhere and beat me to death?

I think not.
Martel France
10-06-2005, 14:04
So, you're saying that he "deserved" to die?

I think not. Oh, so the next time I go into a bar and troll for anonymous heterosexual sex in a redneck bar in the middle of the night, and can't take no for an answer, and feel up a heterosexual woman, it will be OK for them to take me out to the middle of nowhere and beat me to death?

I think not.


I agree, he didn't deserve it, but he has to share some of the blame, he was basically sexually molesting a man and he got attacked back.

Had they shot him then and there for sexual assault, it would have been self-defense, but the very nature of them taking him off into the middle of nowhere, he was no threat then, they were in control of the situation then.

If they had shot him when he felt them up and tried to assault one of them, that would have been legit.

As it was, the killing as murder, not legit.
Brizoa
10-06-2005, 14:06
Matthew Shepard would still be alive today if he hadn't been trolling for anonymous homosexual sex in a redneck bar in the middle of the night. And had he been able to take "no" for an answer, rathering than feeling up a heterosexual man.
So it wouldn't have been so bad if I had killed the two men who last night called me all sorts of obscene names because I told them I was completely uninterested in "getting to know them better"? Oh wait, no now I remember, many, many, many men are offencively persistent in trying to get laid. It's obnoxious at best and dangerous at it worst but it's also something women experience all the damned time. Most of us don't kill men over it though.
Martel France
10-06-2005, 14:07
So it wouldn't have been so bad if I had killed the two men who last night called me all sorts of obscene names because I told them I was completely unintersted in "getting to know them better"? Oh wait, no now I remember, many, many, many men are offencively persistent in trying to get laid. It's obnoxious at best and dangerous at it worst but it's also something women experience all the damned time. Most of us don't kill men over it though.


If a man shoved his hands down your pants and touched your private parts, would you feel inclined to shoot him over that?
Chicken pi
10-06-2005, 14:08
I agree, he didn't deserve it, but he has to share some of the blame, he was basically sexually molesting a man and he got attacked back.

Had they shot him then and there for sexual assault, it would have been self-defense, but the very nature of them taking him off into the middle of nowhere, he was no threat then, they were in control of the situation then.

I doubt you'd take the same view if it had been a lesbian feeling up a heterosexual woman.
Martel France
10-06-2005, 14:08
I doubt you'd take the same view if it had been a lesbian feeling up a heterosexual woman.


Homosexuality is an abomination, lesbianism is homosexuality, it's an abomination.

Thus your doubt was wrong.
Chicken pi
10-06-2005, 14:13
Homosexuality is an abomination, lesbianism is homosexuality, it's an abomination.

Thus your doubt was wrong.

I fail to see the logic in that. Wouldn't murder be a greater abomination than homosexuality, since it's against the ten commandments?