NationStates Jolt Archive

So now three Chinese government officials have saught asylum in Australia claiming that they fear for their lives if they have to return to China. It does seem like China has been caught with its pants down. You can read the story here (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1388912.htm) because I'm too lazy to post it.

Yeah, but they are everyone's largest trading partner and a lot of people have relocated their heavy industry over there. We have to be realistic, rhetoric aside, they are untouchable.

China is pushing the Trade hold off you dont need them they need your Steel though!
Their Stainless Steel products Rust!-Something that really shouldnt happen...
I hate Corruption!

Just goes to show you what ultimately happens when "the workers" rebel. If you think this is bad you should hear what the interior regional governments do to root out the Christians. Most of it would probably fit into the category of medieval torture, I’m talking racks, water torture the whole deal.

China is pushing the Trade hold off you dont need them they need your Steel though!
Their Stainless Steel products Rust!-Something that really shouldnt happen...
I hate Corruption!

Chinese knives are shit.

A friend of mine bought a whole knife block of these chinese knives for his kitchen. He was all proud of himself because it cost less than one of my wusthof knives. (I think it actually cost less than my paring knife).

I told him: "May it give you many minutes of pleasure."

Needless to say, the balance was crap and they couldn't keep and edge. They are dead now.

I am sure once people realize how truly crappy chinese products are, (knives, tools etc., some of their electronics are good I suppose), people will stop buying them.

So now three Chinese government officials have saught asylum in Australia claiming that they fear for their lives if they have to return to China. It does seem like China has been caught with its pants down. You can read the story here (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1388912.htm) because I'm too lazy to post it.

I'm not surprised they want to defect & I would be completely amazed if China didn't have spies in Australia, no matter how much either government denies it. DIMIA can't seem to take a trick at the moment.

I am sure once people realize how truly crappy chinese products are, (knives, tools etc., some of their electronics are good I suppose), people will stop buying them.
They are getting better.

Lest we forget what Japanese cars were like in the 1970s.

They are getting better.

Lest we forget what Japanese cars were like in the 1970s.

There is a big difference between 1970s Japan and 2005 China in terms of society though. In the 70s japan was a stable educated democracy, and I think that helped them make the leap to the world class manufacturing nation it has become. I mean you can contrast it with South Korea, which has only recently begun to catch up.

I will grant that China can eventually catch up, but I think it will take a lot longer to make the transformation than japan did, because societally it has so many more structural problems. At the moment much of china's economic sucess is due to low labor costs, and the near fascist way it runs vast sections of the country. This is not conducive to manufacturing high end goods. It also hinders them from making the leap from making tatty rubbish to producing quality marques.

And even though China is far wealthier today than two decades ago, the majority of the population is still mired in poverty. Human rights abuses abound, and the banking system has a whole bunch of troubles. Also they bought a lot of US treasuries that are about to decline rapidly in value. That hardly makes for a stable situation.

True, but left to their own devices, they'll get there. :)

The UK was hardly a beacon of rights and democracy during the Industrial Revolution, after all. We should avoid applying our standards to countries still making their way in the world.

The UK was hardly a beacon of rights and democracy during the Industrial Revolution, after all. We should avoid applying our standards to countries still making their way in the world.

And you wouldn't want a kitchen knife from the UK from back then either. Not by todays standards anyway :p

Seriously though, its certainly possible that china will get there eventually, though I think it will take a while longer than Japan. But it is also possible that the current system will lead to major domestic upheaval which could end up setting them back. If they were smart, they would start to look at some social reforms instead of being so bellicose.

We should avoid applying our standards to countries still making their way in the world.

Oh, of course. If we judged them we would have to abandon our ideas of moral relativity, without which my head would explode. :rolleyes:

Please, what politically correct rubbish.

They did succeed in making the transition from communism to a fascist market economy, a step which was disasterously mismanaged in the USSR.

However, the USSR did give people decent living standards in the 1960s and 1970s, something which China has yet to do.

Maybe urban water shortages or a killer smog or something will force the issue one day. Perhaps China has survived one transition, only to fall at the next hurdle. Difficult to say. But if the whole thing does collapse, bear in mind that all the world's zips are made in just one town. That could hurt. :(

Oh, of course. If we judged them we would have to abandon our ideas of moral relativity, without which my head would explode. :rolleyes:

Please, what politically correct rubbish.
It is possible to envisage any number of societies which would seek to correct the deficiencies in yours, by force. :)

They did succeed in making the transition from communism to a fascist market economy, a step which was disasterously mismanaged in the USSR.

However, the USSR did give people decent living standards in the 1960s and 1970s, something which China has yet to do.

Maybe urban water shortages or a killer smog or something will force the issue one day. Perhaps China has survived one transition, only to fall at the next hurdle. Difficult to say. But if the whole thing does collapse, bear in mind that all the world's zips are made in just one town. That could hurt. :(

I can even see the increasing urban/rural and geographical disparities in income leading to it. That and labor conditions for the uneducated workers. I remember vaguely reading something a decade ago that talked about increasing discontent in rural China - so much so that some people even looked fondly back at Maoism because at least everyone felt they got a fair share*.

Personally, I find the zipper thing less worrying than the orbital capability coupled to the small, but not insignificant nuclear arsenal. I can get by with a button fly, I wouldn't want to be nuked because a revolutionary government was suffering a fit of peak at the west.

(sometimes I wish that governments could find it in themselves to act better than five year olds.)

It is possible to envisage any number of societies which would seek to correct the deficiencies in yours, by force.

I hardly think the US's deficiencies in any way compare to Red China's problems. Just because you can find examples of people that disagree with you, doesn't mean you should abandon you ideals.

On Topic: The reason that China never achieved the prowess of the former USSR was at least some of the Soviet leaders actually believed in the bull they spewed out regularly. Mao and his successors were never about the people. It was all about achieving power for themselves. This is evident when you look out how much they were willing to compromise Communist ideals. Their use of the peasants in the revolution was most notable, because Marx placed the hope in the industrial urban workers, considering the peasants to be backward.

So now three Chinese government officials have saught asylum in Australia claiming that they fear for their lives if they have to return to China. It does seem like China has been caught with its pants down. You can read the story here (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1388912.htm) because I'm too lazy to post it.

Do you think it would be fairly safe to predict a big plummet in the Chinese government's popularity, particularly among the general population of Australia?

It's about time anyway. What they do to the religious minorities and political dissadents is sickening.

Human rights abuses in China? :eek:

If only someone reported such things!

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng

Oh, nevermind, they have an anti-China agenda. :rolleyes:

Human rights abuses in China? :eek:

If only someone reported such things!

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng

Oh, nevermind, they have an anti-China agenda. :rolleyes:

AI's problem is that it is not very good at handling the media. So all most people in the west hear is AI criticizing them.

Also, third parties with axes to grind selectively report what AI says.

That said, I am not actually sure what AI hopes to accomplish.

Human rights abuses in China? :eek:

If only someone reported such things!

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng

Oh, nevermind, they have an anti-China agenda. :rolleyes:

Look, there's a context to this thread. The thread isn't about pointing out China's many human rights abuses, it's about the Australian government's stick-your-head-in-the-sand attitude to security and common sense.

OI! China isn't all bad bones! I've just came back from eastern China and what they have been doing to develop the places demand praise and encouragement! Why doesn't anybody talk about THAT, huh?

They are getting better.

Lest we forget what Japanese cars were like in the 1970s.
Plus their Shitty Tanks!

China is crap!
Their product is crap
Their Communism is crap
They are Crap!

OI! China isn't all bad bones! I've just came back from eastern China and what they have been doing to develop the places demand praise and encouragement! Why doesn't anybody talk about THAT, huh? Probably because the vast majority of China's population still lives in crushing poverty and the government is a massive, corrupt, oligarchic, dicatorial, fascist and oppressive nightmare.

China needs far more social reforms before I'll even begin to think positive things about it.

Also, would it kill them to kick the crap out of North Korea?

Probably because the vast majority of China's population still lives in crushing poverty and the government is a massive, corrupt, oligarchic, dicatorial, fascist and oppressive nightmare.

China needs far more social reforms before I'll even begin to think positive things about it.

Also, would it kill them to kick the crap out of North Korea?

Shall I remind you that China is a DEVELOPING country. It would be really normal for the vast majority of China's population to still live in poverty. But let me remind you that compared with 1840, 1912 and 1949, the standards of living for many many people in China have drastically improved.

Where have you heard about those stories? Wake up from the 1960s! It's the 21st Century! I would say China's government today is far more modernised and efficient than any regime in the nation's history. Stop measuring China's state with Western standards.