NationStates Jolt Archive

Should we? Make your case and discuss.

Good God, yes. We should pull out of all world bodies and entangling alliances.

Yes, exclude yourselves from the benefits of free trade.

Yes, exclude yourselves from the benefits of free trade.

So we pull out of WTO we wouldn't have free trade? We have free trade agreements with various nations as well as NAFTA. Next.

As for pulling out of the WTO, what precisely has the WTO done for the US?

What has the WTO done for anybody?

Good God, yes. We should pull out of all world bodies and entangling alliances.

Please do.

Actually, here's an idea. Lock down the US completely. Seal off all boarders, completely. Allow no traffic in and out, including radio traffic and other forms of communication. Use your military to defend those borders aggresively, but never set foot outside them.

Think about it. The half of the continent you own is large enough to provide for you - you don't need the rest of the world.

We'll take you back in a couple of hundred years, and call you a social experiment.

(Note: You are allowed to interact with us outside the limits of the atmosphere, but not to communicate with our populations save through human intermediates on our side)

What has the WTO done for anybody?

1 - They solve trade disputes. As trade expands in volume, in the number of products traded, and in the numbers of countries and companies trading, there is a greater chance that disputes will arise. The WTO system helps resolve these disputes peacefully and constructively.

2 - The WTO takes away the burden of any nation to have to negotiate trade agreements with all individual states, one at a time.

3 - Trade increases your choices on what to consume, it decreases the cost of living, and increases overal economic efficiency.

So we pull out of WTO we wouldn't have free trade? We have free trade agreements with various nations as well as NAFTA. Next.

As for pulling out of the WTO, what precisely has the WTO done for the US?

YES OH GOD I BEG YOU TO LOBBY IN YOUR COUNTRY TO DO THIS!

And i'm dead serious! Please :)

It would be sooooooo nice to put huge tariffs on US products, then infiltrating your nation with European exports! After all, if you have free trade with ONE nation, all others can use that for a thing called re-exportation :D

Its so nice to agree with you for a change :)
:fluffle:

YES OH GOD I BEG YOU TO LOBBY IN YOUR COUNTRY TO DO THIS!

And i'm dead serious! Please :)

The House is debating a resolution to pull out. I have to read it and see if its right personally. Besides that, this is the first I've heard of it so I need to research this more.

It would be sooooooo nice to put huge tariffs on US products, then infiltrating your nation with European exports!

You don't understand something apparently. You put huge tariffs on our products, we'll put huge tariffs on yours.

After all, if you have free trade with ONE nation, all others can use that for a thing called re-exportation :D

Its so nice to agree with you for a change :)
:fluffle:

I'm sure something is going to be set up to stop this from happening. Come on, the US ain't stupid you know.

Yes, exclude yourselves from the benefits of free trade.

We don't need to be a member of a world body to have free trade.

Please do.

Actually, here's an idea. Lock down the US completely. Seal off all boarders, completely. Allow no traffic in and out, including radio traffic and other forms of communication. Use your military to defend those borders aggresively, but never set foot outside them.

Think about it. The half of the continent you own is large enough to provide for you - you don't need the rest of the world.

We'll take you back in a couple of hundred years, and call you a social experiment.

(Note: You are allowed to interact with us outside the limits of the atmosphere, but not to communicate with our populations save through human intermediates on our side)

Jesus Christ, why is it that every person on this forum equates non-interventionism with cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world!? :mad:

i agree, we shouldnt intervene with stupid things that wont help us, (remember VIETNAM anyone?) because in the end it will just hurt us. I say we should only intervene if something is really going to mess up the world, such as Hitler did. There is no reason to hurt ourselves just because of a dictatorship, because look where Iraq has gotten us. 1,500 US soldiers dead, plus countless Iraqi civilians and all we get for it is hate from the UN. Jeez.

And we can just only trade with china or something, because they make everything we need anyways and are supposed to take up 1/3 of the whole economic market by 2045.

Jesus Christ, why is it that every person on this forum equates non-interventionism with cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world!? :mad:

Oh, I don't. Nor do I think you're particularly non-interventional. I'm saying what I think you should do, not what you're planning on doing.

(And I think inquiries to Jesus have to be transmitted via prayer. I don't think he spends much time on the Jolt forums)

(And I think inquiries to Jesus have to be transmitted via prayer. I don't think he spends much time on the Jolt forums)

Lol, I don't think so, either. :D

Jesus Christ, why is it that every person on this forum equates non-interventionism with cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world!? :mad:
Because all Americans are extremist fanatics?


What do you mean your not?

Because all Americans are extremist fanatics?


What do you mean your not?

This couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not an extreme fanatic. My parents aren't extreme Fanatic. My friends aren't extreme fanatics. That blows this right out of the water.

Sure, why not?

The US already makes a game out of flouting WTO rulings. US-Canada Lumber Dispute, anyone? If I remember correctly, the WTO has ruled in Canada's favour with every appeal. And the US has done nothing to live up to its end of the contract.

They should leave, that and the UN (we'll just move the HQ to The Hague), NATO, and every other organzation with rules it never follows.

Sure, why not?

The US already makes a game out of flouting WTO rulings. US-Canada Lumber Dispute, anyone? If I remember correctly, the WTO has ruled in Canada's favour with every appeal. And the US has done nothing to live up to its end of the contract.

They should leave, that and the UN (we'll just move the HQ to The Hague), NATO, and every other organzation with rules it never follows.

In that case, the French should leave NATO and the UN! Germany should leave NATO and the UN! Russia and China should both leave the UN. They don't follow UN rules either. Next!

Sure, why not?

The US already makes a game out of flouting WTO rulings. US-Canada Lumber Dispute, anyone? If I remember correctly, the WTO has ruled in Canada's favour with every appeal. And the US has done nothing to live up to its end of the contract.

They should leave, that and the UN (we'll just move the HQ to The Hague), NATO, and every other organzation with rules it never follows.I agree completely.

In that case, the French should leave NATO and the UN! Germany should leave NATO and the UN! Russia and China should both leave the UN. They don't follow UN rules either. Next!
Aha. Does any country follow all the UN rules? I'm afraid not.

The thing people forget is that you have to be in it to influence it.

It does not matter whether you believe in the body's mission (eg America's membership of the UN, the UK's membership of the EU), membership gives you influence, rejection of membership relegates you to the sidelines.

The US will not leave the WTO, because then it will be excluded, every bit as completely as if the WTO kicked the US out. And the WTO is important to US economic interests. Just as, like it or not, the UN is important to US diplomatic interests and the EU important to the future of the UK.

In a globalised world, isolationism, non-interventionism, unilateralism, are no longer an option, if you want to keep up.

Aha. Does any country follow all the UN rules? I'm afraid not.
I think there are a few...Iceland, Norway, Sweden Finland, Canada(?)....?

Aha. Does any country follow all the UN rules? I'm afraid not.

Yea! If they did, there'll be peace in the Mid-East. Iraq would've been taken care of already. Pakistan and India wouldn't be at eachother's throats over Kashmir....

Yes, exclude yourselves from the benefits of free trade.

Free trade is crap. FAIR trade is what is needed.

Free trade is crap. FAIR trade is what is needed.
What's fair trade?

What's fair trade?
Good question. Despite my left leanings in some areas, I don't agree that there can be such a thing. All trade is fundamentally about seeking economic advantage over others. You want the best deal for yourself, at the expense of some other node in the network. Just the way it works.

Obviously one can strive to avoid excesses, such as slavery and material acquisition by outright conquest. But aside from that, I see mutually beneficial trade to be an unattainable ideal, someone will always reap a greater share of the rewards from a transaction.

T
I'm sure something is going to be set up to stop this from happening. Come on, the US ain't stupid you know.

what like a sort of trading organisation :rolleyes:

Obviously one can strive to avoid excesses, such as slavery and material acquisition by outright conquest. But aside from that, I see mutually beneficial trade to be an unattainable ideal, someone will always reap a greater share of the rewards from a transaction.
Well, one can always say that the seller is trying to profit by selling the product for a higher price than its cost; but the buyer will only buy if the value is higher than the price.

So, as long as everybody is free to buy and sell whatever products they have available and at a freely established price, that would be fair trade. Which would also be free, by the way, and is what the WTO and Free Trade Agreements seek to accomplish.

I really don't know what the US would win by pulling out of the WTO, it would give other governments free reign to tax their products. The US would also be able to tax other countries' products, but that would just drive market prices insanely high in the US, while keeping them low outside.

. Next!
That is easily the most self absorbed thing someone can end a statement

Thing is, you have this sort of situation...

Coffee Grower: "I want £1 per kilo of my beans"

Multinational: "Our lowest-cost supplier is £0.70 per kilo."

Coffee Grower: "But my cost of manufacture is £0.80!"

Multinational: "So you're inefficient."

Coffee Grower: "What do you expect? I live in a mud hut on a mountain which takes a week to reach by donkey."

Multinational (to local militias/dictator): "Can you lean on these guys? The raw material prices around here are kinda communist."

Coffee Grower: "WTF DID YOU DO TO MY HOUSE?!"

Multinational: "£0.70 per kilo."

Coffee Grower: "Ugh. FINE! But when the Revolution comes..."

Multinational (to customers): "The price of our coffee is £5 per kilo."

Customers: "Whoa, that's cheap. You sure no-one's getting exploited?"

Multinational: "Well the WTO has looked into it and it's fine."

WTO: "Yeah, it's all cool."

And that's why we need the WTO. :p And why it can't really be any other way, because the stronger party will always have complete freedom to dictate their terms.

Just as an FYI - the current House resolution was defeated by a 86-338 vote.

The background is that under the authorizing language included in the bill that allowed for US participation in the WTO, every 5 years the President is required to report to Congress on the status of US participation, and provides Congress with the opportunity to remove the US from the organization. The second of these reports was filed in May.

There was no way this was going to pass - it was defeated by an even larger margin in 2000. It was really used as a placeholder for the debate on CAFTA, and allowed the House to get some floor debate going about CAFTA before that moves later this month.

Should we? Make your case and discuss.

Please do. The US has a tendency to ignore WTO rulings anyhoo. Take NAFTA and shove it as well. :)

what like a sort of trading organisation :rolleyes:

:confused:

In Economics there is a concept called "pareto efficiency".
One is pareto efficient when no trade can occur (ie no one can improve their utility) without making someone else worse off.
Strictly speaking, trade is mutually beneficial, otherwise it wouldn't occur.
We don't live in a free market though, and therefore outside forces force trade sometimes even when its not mutually beneficial.

I say leave the WTO. The US' record concerning it is appaling and it will work better without its' interference. Same goes for the IMF.
And yet, without support from others small players in the 3rd world will be unable to resist US Demands for an opening of their markets. Just take Bush's trade deals with Africa a while back. If you look at it, all the major agricultural exports of Africa into the US aren't included and tariffs and quotas are put on them.

PS: You cannot raise tariffs against a particular country and maintain free trade with others. Goods would just move through the nations you still have free trade with like other NAFTA members.