NationStates Jolt Archive

How do you defend against this (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0605/08invade.html)? This guy was confronted by five men outside. Let's just say they forced their way in. I've only got a .45 with a 7 round magazine. With a round in the chamber, that's not enough for five determined foes.

Outside of mining the living room with Claymores, what tactic is going to even stand a chance of success against five determined thugs?

Or is it just not your day?


A Douglasville man was shot and beaten and several other people were tied up Wednesday morning during a home invasion robbery.

Several men in a green Jeep Cherokee were waiting on 23-year-old Robby Robinson in front of his Chisel Court home at about 1:30 a.m., said Stan Copeland, chief deputy for the Douglas County Sheriff's office.

Ak-47

How do you defend against this (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0605/08invade.html)? This guy was confronted by five men outside. Let's just say they forced their way in. I've only got a .45 with a 7 round magazine. With a round in the chamber, that's not enough for five determined foes.
(couldn't see the article without registering. will look later...) BUT:
They would have to force their way in from multiple points. If they didn't, each one through the door (a nice contained target) eats one bullet. That leaves me 2 to spare. (Why on earth wouldn't you have a spare magazine???)
Outside of mining the living room with Claymores, what tactic is going to even stand a chance of success against five determined thugs? Or is it just not your day?Thugs generally aren't that determined. The chance comes in in the fact that after the first one takes a round to the chest, the rest tend to run away. Most home invaders aren't SWAT Teams.

There are several tactics I would consider.

1. Don't engage in selling illegal drugs or other criminal activity. It makes people think you may have large amounts of money or drugs on the premises and people who steal from crooks are usually more aggressive and violent than the average criminal.

2. Install a loud alarm system because:

Thugs generally aren't that determined.

3. Have a security door and bars on the windows. Be sure to check the crime statistics in your area because there is actually a good chance that it will increase your chance of dying in a house fire more than it will save you from home invaders.

4. Jump out the window and run like hell.

5. Be Martin Riggs from the Leathal Weapon movies.

6. Seduce the local swat team so they'll always be hanging around.

7. Failing that, put your hands up and tell them where the money is.

I really hope that you go out and get some extra mags. And in my experience, you can't go wrong with the Wilson Combat #47D eight-round magazine. They are about $28.00 a pop, but if you are serious about combat reliability in your 1911, as I am, you should go buy a half-dozen of them.
Containing them in a doorway is a great idea- they don't know that you aren't armed with something that has a bigger magazine capacity. And, as they are criminals intent on robbery or murder, not soldiers carrying out an assault, if you drop baddy number one as he comes through the door, chances are very good that the other guys will lose heart and take off. If they don't, change positions, switch mags, and keep at it.

A good 870 with extended magazine never hurts in this type of situation, either.

1) Get robbed.
2) Get beaten.
3) Get Killed.
4) Survive by some miracle.
5) Hope that someone sees the shit I'm in and calls the police.
6) Destroy them with my heat vision.

Any firearm will generally do the trick - just aim for the head. Hell, just brandishing a shotgun threatingly will tend to make most people think twice. Especially if it's a SPAS 12.

Swords also work well, by the way.

How annoying, I can't access the article, as I ´can't provide a US address. Fucking bastards.

Always someone posting about swords. How about this: I will invade your home, armed with ANY type of firearm, and we can see how far you get with your sword. This is not the frigging Dark Ages! :-)

5 guys? Sawed-off shotgun. That's what I'd go with.

(couldn't see the article without registering. will look later...) BUT:
They would have to force their way in from multiple points. If they didn't, each one through the door (a nice contained target) eats one bullet. That leaves me 2 to spare. (Why on earth wouldn't you have a spare magazine???)
Thugs generally aren't that determined. The chance comes in in the fact that after the first one takes a round to the chest, the rest tend to run away. Most home invaders aren't SWAT Teams.
I figure I'd have what I could pick up easily. In the dark, awakening from a sound sleep, I don't know if I'd pick up a spare magazine. But if I do have the presence of mind to want it, there is one in the drawer with the Kimber.

At our house, the dogs are the alarm and they are effective. We have been "saved" from numerous deer, 'coons, 'possums, and cats that prowl around outside.

I think this episode involved drug money or had some other motivation that was less than random. Besides, I would be a little suspicious of five guys meeting me in the driveway...Claymores in the bushes, that's more like it.

How annoying, I can't access the article, as I ´can't provide a US address. Fucking bastards.
I agree. We use stupid@stupid.com as the email, username and password. I got it from some site that keeps registrations for all these busybody websites. Just can't remember the address. Sorry.

Keep a fully loaded paintball gun, with a 20 oz. tank. You have have your choice of 250-500 shots. Shoot for the eyes, nose, mouth or ears. Anything else will just sting. To help, keep your velocity turned up past the legal field limit when you have your semiautomatic marker on defensive duty. A typical semiautomatic paintball gun can be turned up to 350 fps, twice the field limit of 180 fps. You can cause serious damage to the soft tissues and you could even fracture the attacker's skull with a good headshot at close range. (Which is what you will face down most robbers at.) Aim true and good luck.

Bladed weapons like swords are impractical in close quarters anyway. You might be able to get away if you were somehow in an ambush position with a bowie knife or short blade, but a sword is simply too big. A shotgun might work, but if said thugs carry their own firearms such as handguns, you want your weapon to be bearing on them first rather than the half half chance of a surprise encounter. If they carry the smaller firearm and both are not ready, there is a higher chance of the smaller one being readied faster assuming you are both of equal skill in firearms use.

I can load and shoot 6 rounds from a Winchester 1897 shotgun,one shell at a time, in less than 8 seconds. If they are in the front yard I'll have time to stoke it which further cuts down on the time. I'll wait and let them come in after me.

Or you could live in such a place that it's obvious you have no valuables... (Or at least they think you don't.) ;)

Or you could live in such a place that it's obvious you have no valuables... (Or at least they think you don't.) ;)
I have three kids in college. By definition, I have nothing of value in the house :).

A semi-auto sks with a 20 round clip would work, I have one of those...But, I do not keep it loaded, because it would be dangerous in my apartment. I also have a 45/70, which, loaded with my new hand-load bear rounds, which are about 2 times the power of a factory remington 405 grain load, with the same bullet weight, anyway it would work, and the noise would deafen them all. 4 rounds plus one in the chamber. But where I live, nobody will try to rob me, and besides, I have nothing worth taking anyway.

You don't have to meet the intruder in full web gear with spare mags just dripping off of your body- but having a couple extra is a good idea. If you only have one, and the spring busts, the lips get bent, or it has a faulty followr, then you are SOL until you purchase another one. With several good, high quality mags, you can alleviate this problem entirely.
I can just imagine what a .45-70 would do indoors, wow!

Reading the blurb, I'd have to say if I came home and there where five dudes waiting for me at 1:30 AM, KEEP DRIVING...They had guns, too, so I'm not about to get into some quickdraw contest even if I had a gun. Shit's replacable, but only if I'm still alive to replace it.

Reading the blurb, I'd have to say if I came home and there where five dudes waiting for me at 1:30 AM, KEEP DRIVING...They had guns, too, so I'm not about to get into some quickdraw contest even if I had a gun. Shit's replacable, but only if I'm still alive to replace it.

Exactly. Then call the police. No response from the police, call in a (false) fire alarm.

Personally, for a home defense weapon, I'd go with a shotgun. If needed for use, it's liable to be dark and me scared. Plus, I may not have my glasses on. And even wearing glasses, my depth perception isn't great. For these reasons, I'm going to hit with a shotgun what I'd be unlikely to hit with a pistol.

5 guys? Sawed-off shotgun. That's what I'd go with.

Ditto. The 45 is meant for stopping baddies one at a time but when you got a group you can't go wrong with scatter-shot. Even the distinctive sound CLACK-CLACK can deter the more weak-hearted foes. Just be prepared to do a lot of cleaning up of the furniture and walls.

But if you just got a 45, try to find a place where they'll be forced to enter in a file (doorway chokepoint) then try to take down the first 4 with fire, keeping one round in the chamber (and also so they don't see the gun's empty - they don't KNOW you only got one magazine right??) and have a large blunt instrument at hand (if you can wield one well) if they're still determined, fire the last bullet into one more baddie, throw the gun into the face of the next guy then go wild with the club or whatever you've got as a melee weapon. The idea is you should be crazier than the bad-guys, it might freak them out.

Maharlikana

Just mount a CWIS gattling gun on your roof, put up a small radar detector, and SPLAT! Instant home-protection!

I would get an alarm.

That would summon the police and probably scare off the attackers.

In a few weeks I shall have my very own dao, it is not a decorative sword either, rather it will be a live blade, it's wicked sharp, like the best kitchen knife you've ever handled.

Always someone posting about swords. How about this: I will invade your home, armed with ANY type of firearm, and we can see how far you get with your sword. This is not the frigging Dark Ages! :-)
"Those who live by the sword get shot by those of us who don't." :sniper:

Just mount a CWIS gattling gun on your roof, put up a small radar detector, and SPLAT! Instant home-protection!

And nobody else in the neighborhood for miles either I bet. From what I recall of the CIWS system, particularly the PHALANX, it doesn't bother with identification, it just shoots at anything it picks on its radar moving at a certain velocity.

first of all, you obviously havent been paying attention to the world news, a guy in Germany managed to slay or seriously injure five people with an undescribed sword at a house of worship before being apprehended.

Anyway, here's the way the situation plays out. Pick up bottle of Bacardi 151 that you were drinking before you passed out, grab your 1911 ACP, throw bottle at first invader sighted, thorw cigarette or lighted match, boom first criminal is toast. proceed to kitchen area at a low crouch to avoid detection keeping 1911 ready, when second criminal is sighted fire aiming low, you do not want to kill them , just cause them enough pain that they flee. Assuming other scumbags have not fled yet, turn on old propane stove, place bottle of Vodka, or schnapps nearby, leave house, shoot out kitchen light from window thus igniting propane, laugh heartily, get marshmellows and pointy stick, then report fire to insurance company as "act of god" collect insurance cheque

How do you defend against this (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0605/08invade.html)? This guy was confronted by five men outside. Let's just say they forced their way in. I've only got a .45 with a 7 round magazine. With a round in the chamber, that's not enough for five determined foes.

Outside of mining the living room with Claymores, what tactic is going to even stand a chance of success against five determined thugs?

Or is it just not your day?


By the way those aren't JFK Assassination "magic bullets" are they? in which case two bullets should take all 5 of them out

Goofballian Skunk Patrol:
http://www.striped-skunk.com/pictures-images-gallery/striped-skunks-01.jpg

Or you could live in such a place that it's obvious you have no valuables... (Or at least they think you don't.) ;)
That seems to have worked for me so far. Although there was an attempted robbery at the house right across the street from mine. I'm not sure how it all went down, but the police found over 1000 lbs of pot inside. Well, some of it was outside in the bed of the robbers' pick-up truck. Anyway, they fled and at least some of them had tried breaking into a neighbooring house to hide before they were caught by police. That could've been my house, or they could've started with the wrong house.

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.
Safe Room OR DOBIE-O-MATIC? :D

[IMG]http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~pariah/photos/farside/dobie.jpg

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.

It's been a while, and I can't seem to find it anymore, but do you remember an old set of online CCW scenarios called "the Red Zone"?

Semi-auto shotgun loaded with the finest lead slugs that are destined to stop anything and everything within range.

How do you defend against this (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0605/08invade.html)? This guy was confronted by five men outside. Let's just say they forced their way in. I've only got a .45 with a 7 round magazine. With a round in the chamber, that's not enough for five determined foes.

Outside of mining the living room with Claymores, what tactic is going to even stand a chance of success against five determined thugs?

Or is it just not your day?


Take Tang Soo Do, like me.

(punches a board in half)

Or failing that, surrender, and show them where the money is. I coulden't see the article, but, if they are using tactics of any sort, and they have scoped the place out, unless you are constantly heavily armed and paranoid, or live next to SWAT headquarters, you can't tak them out.

Unless, of course, your name is Bond. James Bond.

Or Rambo.

Semi-auto shotgun loaded with the finest lead slugs that are destined to stop anything and everything within range.

I'll take a pump over an auto-loader, for reliability issues. Also, the sound of working a pump action puts the fear in most people (having been on the wrong end of that sound I know). And #6 shot - nice spread, good effect, and less chance of collateral damage due to overpenetration through walls.

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.


WOW...

Well, you guys are prepared.

Or just paranoid. I'm not quite certain.

But, out of curiosity, asking as a friend (ok, a guy you debated the iraq war with) (and pardon me, if this seems like a stupid, wimpy, liberal question), but what are you doing that could result in your house being stormed?

Easy way to remove intruders: home-made explosives and the ingestion of two or more bottles of alcohol.

Take Tang Soo Do, like me.

(punches a board in half)

For multiple assailants armed with firearms, that ain't going to work too well.

Or failing that, surrender, and show them where the money is. I coulden't see the article, but, if they are using tactics of any sort, and they have scoped the place out, unless you are constantly heavily armed and paranoid, or live next to SWAT headquarters, you can't tak them out.

Unless, of course, your name is Bond. James Bond.

Or Rambo.

1) In this particular case, they were waiting out front when the guy came home, at least from what part of thes story the OP posted. Avoiding the whole situation, as per Cannot think of a name and my posts.

2) Surrendering may or may not work. If they intend bodily harm, a tactical plan, a la WL's, would be a better option for keeping you alive. You don't need to be Bond or Rambo, just have a thought out plan that you practice.

3) If they've cased the place and know you are armed and ready to defend yourself, they'll most likely avoid hitting you for an easier target. (If it's personal, like the ex-husband WL refered to, they'll either hit you anyway, so a plan is going to be needed.)

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.

Where's the electrical floor and spike traps? Not to mention the gas grenades? If you've got gas masks, all the better to take advantage of your non-gas mask wearing burglars.

Did I mention the steel cages? =p

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.

My God! You're ready for door to door war! Is her ex THAT bad?! Shiiiiiiiit! :eek:

WOW...

Well, you guys are prepared.

Or just paranoid. I'm not quite certain.

But, out of curiosity, asking as a friend (ok, a guy you debated the iraq war with) (and pardon me, if this seems like a stupid, wimpy, liberal question), but what are you doing that could result in your house being stormed?

Uhhh... Mafia? Drug Lords? ;) J/K :p

He's plotting to overthrow the government and is expecting the SWAT to show up at any time. Or maybe people in black suits. =p

Well...if they are ambushing me outside my home, then I have two options.

1. Keep driving (the prefered option :p )
2. I'm screwed...take what you want.

Inside my house...my prefered scenario only works with the lights off.

I have two flare guns and a nice welding mask. They go blind, and I start breaking their wrists with a blunt instrument so they can't use a gun. Carry a knife in case one starts to get too uppity. The second flare gun is for in case the first flare goes out before your done crippling your assailants.

Plenty can go wrong, of course, but when theres five people invading your home, plenty can go wrong no matter what you're armed with. :p

Plenty can go wrong, of course, but when theres five people invading your home, plenty can go wrong no matter what you're armed with. :p

Then your obviously not armed with flashbangs, white phosphorus, C2 gas grenades, full tactical body armor, and an assault rifle. =p

It's been a while, and I can't seem to find it anymore, but do you remember an old set of online CCW scenarios called "the Red Zone"?

Never read them. I'll look around.

Haven't had to deal with multiple assailants yet, but I haven't had any problem convincing the single assailants by just pointing the pistol at them (well, one had the muzzle under his chin).

My wife and I have a drill for home invasion. We assume that they're going to get in, so we fall back in a center peel down the axis of the house (which is a long hallway leading to the master bedroom).

Center peel is where I completely empty my weapon and move back to reload while she empties her weapon - and we alternate all the way back to the bedroom. We practice this drill with empty weapons about once a week.

We're always wearing our pistols, as we might have to deal with her ex-husband (who until he found out we were armed, used to attack us). And we both have two reloads on us.

The bedroom has a steel door in a steel frame and a large blocking bar on the inside. The rest of our ammunition is in there, as is at least one cell phone, two Advantage 1000 gas masks, and a fire extinguisher sized pepper spray dispenser.

You guys are well prepared for the DC area. I'm still far enough out in the country that the events "In Cold Blood" are a little more probable. But I did go out and buy two more Wilson 8 round mags for my .45. The cell phone and extra ammo in our safe room is a great idea. Thanks.

Never read them. I'll look around.

Like I said, it was around several years ago, but I haven't seen it lately. This thread and another recent one made me think of it. The basic set up was a series of role played scenarios in ordinary settings - restaurants, outside a theater after the show, and so on. A situation was presented the "players" posted their reactions, and there was a general critque. The scenarios were pretty interesting, and included a simple mugging, a spree killer, and even a rabid dog.

Personally, at the moment, I don't have any firearms at all. They're pretty strict on the firearms control here - though the average citizen can own a rifle or shotgun for hunting or sport shooting, but not self defense, if they jump through enough hoops.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIB3a.html has lots of good info.

The good news is that there isn't much need for defensive firearms. The bad news is the crime rate is increasing pretty badly.

I would use my mental powers to cause aneurisms in their brains. That would take them out pretty quickly. If I wanted to be mean I would just sever the nerves in the spinal cord.

Now, I know not everyone can do this. Five individual determined to jump you is pretty tough, even if you're armed they have the surprise advantage and you may not have time to reach for your gun. Fortunately most thugs don't plan ahead too much and don't usually want to be the first to take a bullet.

Still, against a determined group it's difficult unless you expect it and are alert.

I would use my mental powers to cause aneurisms in their brains. That would take them out pretty quickly. If I wanted to be mean I would just sever the nerves in the spinal cord.

Now, I know not everyone can do this. Five individual determined to jump you is pretty tough, even if you're armed they have the surprise advantage and you may not have time to reach for your gun. Fortunately most thugs don't plan ahead too much and don't usually want to be the first to take a bullet.

Still, against a determined group it's difficult unless you expect it and are alert.

You could always use extreme flatulence techniques.