NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sure many have heard of D.A.R.E (Drug and Alcohol Resistance Education). But I've had something of an epiphany.

I was typing up a "journal entry" for my little brother who is currently in the DARE program. I can't believe I was enrolled (mandatory I add) in such a preachy and fearsome course.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of narcotics and I do not smoke. However, after looking though his book I found alot of false data and "fear-tactic" information. This sort of course seems almost like propoganda. I ask you, during the Prohibition Era, do you think there were programs like this?

I would say that talking about drug, tobacco and alcohol abuse is task that parents should undertake but, like sexuality, many parents are ignorant themsleves or are flat out too afraid to talk to their children about such a sensitive topic. And that is why we have such shoddy programs dealing with both issues.

Any comments? Ideas?

I'm sure many have heard of D.A.R.E (Drug and Alcohol Resistance Education). But I've had something of an epiphany.

I was typing up a "journal entry" for my little brother who is currently in the DARE program. I can't believe I was enrolled (mandatory I add) in such a preachy and fearsome course.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of narcotics and I do not smoke. However, after looking though his book I found alot of false data and "fear-tactic" information. This sort of course seems almost like propoganda. I ask you, during the Prohibition Era, do you think there were programs like this?

I would say that talking about drug, tobacco and alcohol abuse is task that parents should undertake but, like sexuality, many parents are ignorant themsleves or are flat out too afraid to talk to their children about such a sensitive topic. And that is why we have such shoddy programs dealing with both issues.

Any comments? Ideas?
I liked the DARE program, but then, I'm almost ridiculously anti-drugs, smoking, etc.

My favorite part was at the end, making the DARE posters. I really got to show my creativity. Unfortunately, it was not appreciated. (I didn't even get honorable mention at school level.)

I think education is a better course of action than prohibition for drugs and alcohol

I think education is a better course of action that prohibition for drugs and alcohol

I'd agree. Problem is the teaching methods are...well "off". Not enough facts really, all about fear.

I like how we had DARE like every year. It gets monotonous after a while.

"Okay. Drugs = Bad. We got it."

I'm sure many have heard of D.A.R.E (Drug and Alcohol Resistance Education). But I've had something of an epiphany.

I was typing up a "journal entry" for my little brother who is currently in the DARE program. I can't believe I was enrolled (mandatory I add) in such a preachy and fearsome course.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of narcotics and I do not smoke. However, after looking though his book I found alot of false data and "fear-tactic" information. This sort of course seems almost like propoganda. I ask you, during the Prohibition Era, do you think there were programs like this?

I would say that talking about drug, tobacco and alcohol abuse is task that parents should undertake but, like sexuality, many parents are ignorant themsleves or are flat out too afraid to talk to their children about such a sensitive topic. And that is why we have such shoddy programs dealing with both issues.

Any comments? Ideas?
I don't know about your school, but at mine the DARE program was a pack of lies and fear tactics that did far more harm than good. They deliberately mislead young people about drugs and alcohol, and they overload on the propaganda. Not only does DARE make it appear far more cool to use drugs, but they also are responsible for something I call "gateway disbelief"...here's how it works:

DARE tells lies about pot. They tell kids it makes you impotent, that it's physiologically addictive, that people OD on pot all the time, et cetera. But then a young student learns the actual facts about marijuana, and learns that DARE has been lying to them. The student then figures, "If they lied to me about pot, they probably lied about other drugs being harmful!" The student then does not trust (accurate) information about the harmfulness of drugs like heroine and PCP.

This is a growing problem in particular with the handling of ecstacy. There are even commercials claiming that people have died from taking ecstacy, despite the fact that it is not medically possible for the deaths in question to have been the result of MDMA consumption. I make every effort to give young people correct and accurate information about drugs, including revealing the lies they have been told by organizations like DARE, and to encourage them to ignore any person who tries to use fear tactics on them.

I'd agree. Problem is the teaching methods are...well "off". Not enough facts really, all about fear.
Bah, D.A.R.E is just one of hundreds of pressure groups that all use scare tactics to get their point across. Even organisations like greenpeace can be rightly accused of scare tactics. It appears to be the only way to get things done, at least at the moment. Personally, I think this one sounds a little like a bunch of conservative, ignorant parents unwilling to allow their children to make their own decisions in life, but I guess that view is thanks to experiences with some of my friends' parents.

Did any of you guys have to do G.R.E.A.T.? The anti-gangs thing? That was boring as hell.

I don't know about your school, but at mine the DARE program was a pack of lies and fear tactics that did far more harm than good. They deliberately mislead young people about drugs and alcohol, and they overload on the propaganda. Not only does DARE make it appear far more cool to use drugs, but they also are responsible for something I call "gateway disbelief"...here's how it works:

DARE tells lies about pot. They tell kids it makes you impotent, that it's physiologically addictive, that people OD on pot all the time, et cetera. But then a young student learns the actual facts about marijuana, and learns that DARE has been lying to them. The student then figures, "If they lied to me about pot, they probably lied about other drugs being harmful!" The student then does not trust (accurate) information about the harmfulness of drugs like heroine and PCP.

This is a growing problem in particular with the handling of ecstacy. There are even commercials claiming that people have died from taking ecstacy, despite the fact that it is not medically possible for the deaths in question to have been the result of MDMA consumption. I make every effort to give young people correct and accurate information about drugs, including revealing the lies they have been told by organizations like DARE, and to encourage them to ignore any person who tries to use fear tactics on them.

Blech. What's the point of making efforts to inform kids about drugs if you're not actually going to give accurate information?

Many people have a problem with the way the program teaches. It generally fails to present solid facts that you would need to get a good picture of what the drugs are actually about.

For example, heroin/coke/meth users sometimes report being taught that Marijuana would get them addicted, etc. After having used it and discovered that DARE wasn't accurate, they go on to more dangerous drugs with the conception that DARE was lying about them too. Only later do they realize how big of a difference there is between Pot and heroin/coke/meth.

They usually try to portray pot users for example as malicious thugs just trying to get money off of you. Again, when kids discover it's often just regular people using it, it makes it seem as if DARE was lying, which takes the emphasis off of the actual dangers of hard drugs.

Blech. What's the point of making efforts to inform kids about drugs if you're not actually going to give accurate information?
It's the same as telling kids you can get AIDS from shaking hands with a gay person, or that Jeebus will send you to hell if you kiss outside of wedlock. Some people want to treat children like helpless little morons. They are selfishly interested in forcing children to follow their personal morality, and they don't care how much lying they have to do to get their way.

It's the same as telling kids you can get AIDS from shaking hands with a gay person, or that Jeebus will send you to hell if you kiss outside of wedlock. Some people want to treat children like helpless little morons. They are selfishly interested in forcing children to follow their personal morality, and they don't care how much lying they have to do to get their way.

Traditionalist-conformist bullshit basically.

I don't know about your school, but at mine the DARE program was a pack of lies and fear tactics that did far more harm than good. They deliberately mislead young people about drugs and alcohol, and they overload on the propaganda. Not only does DARE make it appear far more cool to use drugs, but they also are responsible for something I call "gateway disbelief"...here's how it works:

DARE tells lies about pot. They tell kids it makes you impotent, that it's physiologically addictive, that people OD on pot all the time, et cetera. But then a young student learns the actual facts about marijuana, and learns that DARE has been lying to them. The student then figures, "If they lied to me about pot, they probably lied about other drugs being harmful!" The student then does not trust (accurate) information about the harmfulness of drugs like heroine and PCP.

This is a growing problem in particular with the handling of ecstacy. There are even commercials claiming that people have died from taking ecstacy, despite the fact that it is not medically possible for the deaths in question to have been the result of MDMA consumption. I make every effort to give young people correct and accurate information about drugs, including revealing the lies they have been told by organizations like DARE, and to encourage them to ignore any person who tries to use fear tactics on them.
I agree with everything you said, but the MDMA part has me a little confused. MDMA is a CNS stimulant, right? Therefore an overdose of it is likely to cause cardiac arrythmia (sp), and potentially kill you, right?

Many people have a problem with the way the program teaches. It generally fails to present solid facts that you would need to get a good picture of what the drugs are actually about.

For example, heroin/coke/meth users sometimes report being taught that Marijuana would get them addicted, etc. After having used it and discovered that DARE wasn't accurate, they go on to more dangerous drugs with the conception that DARE was lying about them too. Only later do they realize how big of a difference there is between Pot and heroin/coke/meth.

They usually try to portray pot users for example as malicious thugs just trying to get money off of you. Again, when kids discover it's often just regular people using it, it makes it seem as if DARE was lying, which takes the emphasis off of the actual dangers of hard drugs.
Circle gets the Square.

'round here all D.A.R.E. means 'you can buy drugs from that guy.' I've never run into anyone in a D.A.R.E. shirt that wasn't a dealer.

I'm sure some wore them in ernest but got tired of people trying ot buy drugs from them...

In Britain we don't have anything like that, some ex drugs squad officer came to talk about. He was realistic, accurate, funny and it actually ermerged that his daughter had died taking ecstasy so it got really serious at the end.

I agree with everything you said, but the MDMA part has me a little confused. MDMA is a CNS stimulant, right? Therefore an overdose of it is likely to cause cardiac arrythmia (sp), and potentially kill you, right?
MDMA itself cannot cause fatality unless consumed in doses that pretty much nobody can afford on the street. It would be like OD'ing on marijuana...yes, you technically can do it, but it just doesn't happen the way the anti-drug folks tell it. It hasn't even been established conclusively that MDMA is neurotoxic in humans (though I personally believe it probably is), so it's a bit premature for people to be making many of the claims they do.

What is dangerous is that rolls you buy on the street will usually not be MDMA, or will have MDMA cocktailed with a bunch of other crap, and it's the synergy or those other drug effects that actually kill people. Most "ecstacy" deaths that are reported are actually due to speed...a form of speed is produced when cooks make rolls, and it can cause all of the stimulant problems of a typical upper. Kids also very commonly die of heat stroke, not of drug overdose, because they are rolling and dance like fiends and don't rehydrate or eat anything. The drug doesn't kill them, but it is part of the reason why they forget themselves and push their bodies farther than the body can handle.

An actual risk, one that DARE won't tell you about, is that MDMA interferes with its own metabolism. This means that taking the drug repeatedly in a short period of time can be much more dangerous than spacing out uses over longer stretches of time. You can, unknowingly, have much more elevated levels of MDMA in your system than you intended, since residual drug will inhibit your body's ability to process the next pill you take (if you do it too soon after your first roll).

I don't know about your school, but at mine the DARE program was a pack of lies and fear tactics that did far more harm than good. They deliberately mislead young people about drugs and alcohol, and they overload on the propaganda. Not only does DARE make it appear far more cool to use drugs, but they also are responsible for something I call "gateway disbelief"...here's how it works:

DARE tells lies about pot. They tell kids it makes you impotent, that it's physiologically addictive, that people OD on pot all the time, et cetera. But then a young student learns the actual facts about marijuana, and learns that DARE has been lying to them. The student then figures, "If they lied to me about pot, they probably lied about other drugs being harmful!" The student then does not trust (accurate) information about the harmfulness of drugs like heroine and PCP.

This is a growing problem in particular with the handling of ecstacy. There are even commercials claiming that people have died from taking ecstacy, despite the fact that it is not medically possible for the deaths in question to have been the result of MDMA consumption. I make every effort to give young people correct and accurate information about drugs, including revealing the lies they have been told by organizations like DARE, and to encourage them to ignore any person who tries to use fear tactics on them.


The Downmarching Void does a double take @ Bottle.

That soundslike a Dancesafe Pamphlet from back-in-the-day. You wouldn't happen to be Jaded Old Raver, would you. (My friends tell me thats what I am)

If everyone were properly educated about drugs and marijauna prohibition laws were repealed, after 20 years, LESS people would be doing drugs than now.

Irresponsible use of MDMA can lead to death, just like any other drug. Saying that you can't OD on MDMA doesn't change the fact the the E some gets in the club is never really guarenteed to be pure. Cutting it with DXM makes it deadly, for example. Maybe if the education forcused on real results of Ecstasy use. A friend of mine has scorliosis (sp?) a curvature of the spine caused by his use of MDMA/Ecstasy He's 30. Another has depleted his Sertonin and will be on anti-depressants the rest of his life and yet another freind of mine got high on E and just never completely came back down. He's just cracked...
I'm myself have scarred my sinus cavities from my years as a human vacuum cleaner (snort, sssnnnooorrrrt ..It tastes like burning!)

If DARE dared to tell the simple unvarnished truth, they might actually succeed in their goal, instead of teaching drivel

This brings about an important debate- is it Ok to exaggerate and lie to kids if it's for a good cause. An example (besides DARE) is the cigarette ads. Sure, cigarettes are bad for you, but they'd have you believing that one puff will cause your lungs to shrivel up and give you 17 types of Cancer. But if it stops a few people from smoking, is it worth it?

I don't think it is. I say just lay out the truth without the propoganda and bullshit statistics, and let people learn from there. I had real problems with DARE, especially because the kids who really liked it and hung out with the officer at lunch are now the ones doing drugs, and I'm not talking about an occasional joint at a party, I'm talking abou the type of stuff you rob people to pay for.
I don't know about your school, but at mine the DARE program was a pack of lies and fear tactics that did far more harm than good. They deliberately mislead young people about drugs and alcohol, and they overload on the propaganda. Not only does DARE make it appear far more cool to use drugs, but they also are responsible for something I call "gateway disbelief"...here's how it works:

DARE tells lies about pot. They tell kids it makes you impotent, that it's physiologically addictive, that people OD on pot all the time, et cetera. But then a young student learns the actual facts about marijuana, and learns that DARE has been lying to them. The student then figures, "If they lied to me about pot, they probably lied about other drugs being harmful!" The student then does not trust (accurate) information about the harmfulness of drugs like heroine and PCP.

This is a growing problem in particular with the handling of ecstacy. There are even commercials claiming that people have died from taking ecstacy, despite the fact that it is not medically possible for the deaths in question to have been the result of MDMA consumption. I make every effort to give young people correct and accurate information about drugs, including revealing the lies they have been told by organizations like DARE, and to encourage them to ignore any person who tries to use fear tactics on them.
I agree.

Circle gets the Square.

'round here all D.A.R.E. means 'you can buy drugs from that guy.' I've never run into anyone in a D.A.R.E. shirt that wasn't a dealer.

I'm sure some wore them in ernest but got tired of people trying ot buy drugs from them...I missed out on DARE by a couple years, but when I was in high school there were a few guys that got their hands on the t-shirts and they were all pot-heads. I thought it was awesome.

The Downmarching Void does a double take @ Bottle.

That soundslike a Dancesafe Pamphlet from back-in-the-day. You wouldn't happen to be Jaded Old Raver, would you. (My friends tell me thats what I am)

Yeah, I was a candykid back in the day :). I get to feel like an old fogey, since I was in the rave scene back when it was actually the rave scene (rather than the Dateline version everybody found out about 5 years later).


If everyone were properly educated about drugs and marijauna prohibition laws were repealed, after 20 years, LESS people would be doing drugs than now.

Yup. Prohibition is murder. People who support prohibition and the perpetuation of drug ignorance are endorsing increased death and injury for children...but hey, drugs are bad, m'kay?


Irresponsible use of MDMA can lead to death, just like any other drug. Saying that you can't OD on MDMA doesn't change the fact the the E some gets in the club is never really guarenteed to be pure. Cutting it with DXM makes it deadly, for example. Maybe if the education forcused on real results of Ecstasy use.

This is true. But that's the problem...telling kids that the drug ecstacy does these things is untrue, because that drug is MDMA and doesn't have the effects they are claiming. It is better to give the complete story.


A friend of mine has scorliosis (sp?) a curvature of the spine caused by his use of MDMA/Ecstasy He's 30.

MDMA cannot cause scoliosis, as far as I know. It must have been some other substance in his rolls...which still really sucks, so he has my sympathy. If E were legal and regulated you wouldn't have that kind of crap going on.


Another has depleted his Sertonin and will be on anti-depressants the rest of his life

That's one of the main issues with E that worries me. It doesn't kill cleanly, it just fucks with brain chemistry in serious ways. Using once or twice won't do too much harm, but people that were rolling every weekend are now finding out they have cashed out on a whole part of their life.


and yet another freind of mine got high on E and just never completely came back down. He's just cracked...
Of course, I have a friend who was in a coma for over a year after he took a prescription. I don't really trust anecdotal accounts for evaluation of drugs, because there are too many variables. I try to stick to the research as much as possible, and that's what I encourage young people to do.


I'm myself have scarred my sinus cavities from my years as a human vacuum cleaner (snort, sssnnnooorrrrt ..It tastes like burning!)

Bletch! Bummer.


If DARE dared to tell the simple unvarnished truth, they might actually succeed in their goal, instead of teaching drivel
Preach on, brotha man!

...
DARE tells lies about pot. They tell kids it makes you impotent, that it's physiologically addictive, that people OD on pot all the time, et cetera. But then a young student learns the actual facts about marijuana, and learns that DARE has been lying to them. The student then figures, "If they lied to me about pot, they probably lied about other drugs being harmful!" The student then does not trust (accurate) information about the harmfulness of drugs like heroine and PCP.
...You don't know how happy it makes me to see that someone else exposed the gateway drug fallacy before I got to the thread. I was too old for DARE when that got started, but I was subject to the "just say no" propaganda of the '80s. I totally bought it. Hell, as a freshmen in high school, I remember specifically not liking Cyrpress Hill and Dr. Dre because they rapped about smoking pot. When I began to learn that people I knew in school who weren't brain-damaged junkie losers smoked pot, I was astonished. The more I learned about the reality of "drugs", the more betrayed I felt. If it weren't for all the famous people that OD'd on heroin and cocaine while I was in high school, I'm not sure I would've taken those drugs as seriously as I did.

You don't know how happy it makes me to see that someone else exposed the gateway drug fallacy before I got to the thread. I was too old for DARE when that got started, but I was subject to the "just say no" propaganda of the '80s. I totally bought it. Hell, as a freshmen in high school, I remember specifically not liking Cyrpress Hill and Dr. Dre because they rapped about smoking pot. When I began to learn that people I knew in school who weren't brain-damaged junkie losers smoked pot, I was astonished. The more I learned about the reality of "drugs", the more betrayed I felt. If it weren't for all the famous people that OD'd on heroin and cocaine while I was in high school, I'm not sure I would've taken those drugs as seriously as I did.
I pissed off a whole lot of people when I made a joke in my graduation speech about how "winners occasionally do use drugs." Though I didn't say so in my speech, it was common knowledge that I used drugs and alcohol throughout High School, and the school administrators didn't like the fact that I gave a nod to that during my speech. However, there wasn't much they could do...since I was the valedictorian ;).

[QUOTE=Bottle]Yeah, I was a candykid back in the day :). I get to feel like an old fogey, since I was in the rave scene back when it was actually the rave scene (rather than the Dateline version everybody found out about 5 years later).
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This is true. But that's the problem...telling kids that the drug ecstacy does these things is untrue, because that drug is MDMA and doesn't have the effects they are claiming. It is better to give the complete story.
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MDMA cannot cause scoliosis, as far as I know. It must have been some other substance in his rolls...which still really sucks, so he has my sympathy. If E were legal and regulated you wouldn't have that kind of crap going on.
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That's one of the main issues with E that worries me. It doesn't kill cleanly, it just fucks with brain chemistry in serious ways. Using once or twice won't do too much harm, but people that were rolling every weekend are now finding out they have cashed out on a whole part of their life.
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Of course, I have a friend who was in a coma for over a year after he took a prescription. I don't really trust anecdotal accounts for evaluation of drugs, because there are too many variables. I try to stick to the research as much as possible, and that's what I encourage young people to do.

-snip-- QUOTE]

I'm still well into scene, but mostly from the nightclub ened of things. I DJ & Produce so I see it all almost every weekend. I'm nearing the end of a 3 month hiatus I took from the scene because all the sordid BS was getting to me.

E doesn't worry me as much as K. That crap actually makes you stupid...but the stupidity stays, while the effects of the drug don't. I have no science to back up and of my obvservations, though in each case, the (likely misinformed) Doctors invovlved attributed the symptoms to Ecstasy use. Mike (with scorleosis) was known as The Chemical Kid, so truly, who knows just what it was. I just know E can fuck you up as much as any other hard drug. Problem is the kids beleive in the myth of its relative safety and harmlessness. They reject one stupid lie for the comfort of another. It can be pretty depressing to watch.

I agree with everything you said, but the MDMA part has me a little confused. MDMA is a CNS stimulant, right? Therefore an overdose of it is likely to cause cardiac arrythmia (sp), and potentially kill you, right?
There is not one case of an overdose of marijuana. i don't know about you but im going to trust the Harvard Doctor who did an eight year study on just marijuana.

There is not one case of an overdose of marijuana. i don't know about you but im going to trust the Harvard Doctor who did an eight year study on just marijuana.


You are right that there are no OD cases with marijana(if I recall correct, the difference between an active dose of THC and a deadly is a factor of 40.000. I could find it, but I really can't be asked atm :p)

Nevertheless, that is irrelevant, as Drunk Commies was speaking of MDMA, which is the drug known as ecstacy. The active ingredient in marijuana is called THC, as stated above.

Hope that cleared it up a little for you