NationStates Jolt Archive

Jane Fonda, whose trips to North Vietnam during that War propeled her onto the world stage, has returned to public life with her autobiography, My Life So Far, and the release of Monster-in-Law, her first feature film in 15 years. At a special Hollywood double feature of two suppressed documentaries, the feisty two-time Academy Award winner also showed herself to be as antiwar as ever.

The rare screening at the Directors Guild of America's theaters last month was only the third projection of the restored print of FTA (Fuck The Army).

Vietnam veteran Oliver Stone, director of the '80s films Platoon and Born on the Fourth of July, called FTA "The highest form of free expression we've seen in America in a long, long time."

FTA grew largely out of the G.I. resistance movement to the Vietnam war, as well as the classism, racism and sexism perpetrated by the military brass against soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen and women. The shows consisted of songs and skits, often with a comic panache, always with an anti-militaristic thrust and sometimes with a feminist consciousness. A counterpoint to Bob Hope's pro-war USO tours.The overseas audiences for what Fonda called FTA's "political vaudeville" was composed mainly of 64,000 disaffected servicemen and women.

Following the screenings Stone moderated a panel discussion with Fonda. Commenting on FTA's removal from distribution, Fonda said, "I must say, looking at it now, it's no wonder. Think of all the propaganda that those of us who opposed the war were 'anti-troops.' When you see thousands of guys and women with their fists in the air who were active duty military personnel, it's a different slant. Now, in the context of Iraq, it's very -- what's the word? Subversive."

"By the way, it's happening today with the Iraq veterans," Fonda added. "For example at the second invasion of Iraq, at Fort Bragg, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, there was the largest antiwar rally since 1970, which I was at. This time, all the speeches were made by returned American veterans of the Iraq war, and families and parents. It's an example of what's happening now within the military in Iraq. They're not getting the kind of help that they need."

Fonda denounced "the cutback of hundreds of millions of dollars to the Veterans Administration the day after the troops were sent to Iraq to invade, just after the 'Support Our Troops' resolution. Reach out to military families because they're living it, and give support to them," she encouraged the audience.

Stone asked: "Is it possible for what you call the Iraq protest movement in the military to ever get recognized publicly?" Fonda replied to applause from the audience: "Well, we have to make sure that it is. Yes, I think so. The movement is definitely growing."

Stone asked Fonda how America had changed since 1971. "We never came to terms with the war," she replied. "Revisionism set in and Americans were made to believe that we could have won the war, if it hadn't been for the antiwar movement and so-called 'liberal media.' That was during the Reagan administration and it was very handy for the first Bush administration when we went into the Gulf War.

"Remember what happened? 'Oh, if you're against this war you're going to be a traitor like those people back in the sixties and seventies.' People got scared because they didn't know what the truth was. That's continuing today. Of course, this administration is just totally brilliant at playing on our fears. With the invasion of Iraq, it was raised to an art form. You know, 'you're either with us or against us.' If you speak out against the war you're considered a terrorist," Fonda said.

On a more upbeat note she mused, "Today, Nixon and Reagan are looking mighty good. I think this is the scariest time I've ever lived through. It's a dying beast, and they're always the scariest and most dangerous. Just below the crust of the surface there is a volcano ready to erupt. It's our job to create critical mass and ignite it.

"It's a really confusing time; it's more complicated than Vietnam," she continued. "There was no Saddam Hussein during Vietnam. Everybody agreed Saddam had to go. Did there need to be an invasion where 100,000 innocent civilians die in the process? I don't think so. People are waiting out there for leadership. I was asked: 'What's happened to the Left?' Progressivism is alive and well, but it's women who are going to have to rise up and lead it now."

"Jane is a great revolutionary," Stone said admiringly. "We need that type. 'Storm the barricades.'"

Since the rights to FTA are owned by Fonda, Stone suggesting re-releasing the film. "You've got to get it out there, Jane. You can do a lot with digital now. Would you like to see it on the Internet?"

"We'd have to think very hard about who we would try to get the film distributed to," Fonda said. "I'm not sure that our main audience isn't the military. Technology has made it possible for us to get stuff out there in such an easier, democratic and inexpensive way.

"I just spent five weeks traveling around the country, and except for one incident where a vet spit at me, what I'm seeing is that people are ready and hungry for statements like this. They really are. I'm talking in the heartland, in those red states."

alternet.org

oh the trolling and flaming is gunna be good in this one

LOL, i thought she was dead untill i saw the commercial trailer on tv.

Keeeeerist! Will this psycho nutbag ever die? She's like Cher, but with less talent.

Keeeeerist! Will this psycho nutbag ever die? She's like Cher, but with less talent.

LOL !

Hey is this TRA's newest incarnate?

oh the trolling and flaming is gunna be good in this one
huh?

LOL, i thought she was dead untill i saw the commercial trailer on tv.
if thats how she looks being dead Id do her

Hey is this TRA's newest incarnate?
sei stato testimonte dei miracoli

she's just trying to jump start the old career, that pot money was bound to run out some time

sei stato testimonte dei miracoli
Translation please?

You know, a protest might help the effort of bringing the troops home earlier.

If we really want to get the job done though, we should go chill in the mosques and look for the blue eyed tank drivers through our rocket launcher sights. That would probably help facilitate the movement of the ships back to this way.

Or we could let Kerry talk to the Senate again.

I can see progress rearing it's head now.

Translation please?
your a spy for the mods arent you?

Hey is this TRA's newest incarnate?
I think it is.

your a spy for the mods arent you?
Yup it is TRA.

your a spy for the mods arent you?
Geez, I just want to know some Latin.....

And what evidence do you have that allows you to state that it's a war for oil? If you don't have any, I'll be forced to call you a hippy.

Geez, I just want to know some Latin.....
then learn this and let it be the philosophy of your life

VOX POPULI VOX DEI

Yup it is TRA.
identity is amorpheus

And what evidence do you have that allows you to state that it's a war for oil? If you don't have any, I'll be forced to call you a hippy.
because Bushs entire foreign policy is based on oil terrorism and corporate fascsism

because Bushs entire foreign policy is based on oil terrorism and corporate fascsism

Hurrah for catchphrases!

Bravo for Jane!! This war on Iraq is more politically wrong than the Vietnam War.

*CanuckHeaven* muses about Bush's possible slogans for the war on Iraq:

"Killing innocent people to prove that killing innocent people is wrong"

"We will give you "democracy" even if it kills you"

"Our "democracy" is to die for"

"Don't worry people of Iraq, we will save your oil wells first"

Hurrah for catchphrases!
in the future people will speak in one word sentences

because Bushs entire foreign policy is based on oil terrorism and corporate fascsism
Then refute this, biaaatch!
The idea of preemptive war is based on the fact that it's better to hit at your enemy first than having to be provoked by an act of war (and suffering some nasty damage first).

So would you rather be hurt by terrorists first, then fight back, or take the fight to them?

identity is amorpheus
Ok, but I really don't get what you mean?

Bravo for Jane!! This war on Iraq is more politically wrong than the Vietnam War.

*CanuckHeaven* muses about Bush's possible slogans for the war on Iraq:

"Killing innocent people to prove that killing innocent people is wrong"

"We will give you "democracy" even if it kills you"

"Our "democracy" is to die for"

"Don't worry people of Iraq, we will save your oil wells first"
Bush is the biblical whore of Babylon

Then refute this, biaaatch!
The idea of preemptive war is based on the fact that it's better to hit at your enemy first than having to be provoked by an act of war (and suffering some nasty damage first).

So would you rather be hurt by terrorists first, then fight back, or take the fight to them?
Iraq couldve been an important ally in the fight against terrorism but Bush blew it.

also preemptive war is inherently unamerican because its an act of aggression.If every country used the same logic then the world would be in a state of eternal never-ending warfare. And as it was Bush allowed them to hit us first anyway didnt he-then proceeded to invade the people who didnt do it

Bush is the biblical whore of Babylon
But, as a liberal, what do you have against whores? After all, you'd legalize prostitution....

Ok, but I really don't get what you mean?
it means everything you are is just a projection of your thoughts

Iraq couldve been an important ally in the fight against terrorism but Bush blew it.

also preemptive war is inherently unamerican because its an act of aggression.If every country used the same logic then the world would be in a state of eternal never-ending warfare. And as it was Bush allowed them to hit us first anyway didnt he-then proceeded to invade the people who didnt do it
Your theories are strange and disturbing.

Iraq couldve been an important ally in the fight against terrorism but Bush blew it.
So you'd want to ally yourself *with* a dictator like Saddam?

And what evidence do you have that allows you to state that it's a war for oil? If you don't have any, I'll be forced to call you a hippy.
What is wrong with being called a "hippy"?

Bush is the biblical whore of Babylon
Down with whores!! :D

So you'd want to ally yourself *with* a dictator like Saddam?
Ronald Reagan and George Herbert Bush didn't find that to be a problem?

We did ally with a dictator like Saddam. In fact, we gave him chemical weapons, which he used against the Iranians and later the Kurds.

I don't know how Jane Fonda can really talk about how she speaks for Veteran's Rights when she went over and played with the VC during Vietnam. Makes no sense to me, unless I am missing something really big.

But, as a liberal, what do you have against whores? After all, you'd legalize prostitution....
your correct--I believe whores should have global unions

But Bush isnt a freelove whore--hes a greedwhore with the values of the grave who leaves nothing but the stench of burning flesh in his wake

your correct--I believe whores should have global unions

But Bush isnt a freelove whore--hes a greedwhore with the values of the grave who leaves nothing but the stench of burning flesh in his wake
Do you care?

We did ally with a dictator like Saddam. In fact, we gave him chemical weapons, which he used against the Iranians and later the Kurds.

I don't know how Jane Fonda can really talk about how she speaks for Veteran's Rights when she went over and played with the VC during Vietnam. Makes no sense to me, unless I am missing something really big.
in her earlier incarnations Jane Fonda was prone to over excitablitity but her values have always been above reproach

Do you care?
I care because the people buried in mass graves wont let me forget

in the future people will speak in one word sentences
Yes.




OMG TEH FUTURR IZ NOWW!!!!111one!

I care because the people buried in mass graves wont let me forget
Saddam did that not Bush.

Iraq couldve been an important ally in the fight against terrorism but Bush blew it.

also preemptive war is inherently unamerican because its an act of aggression.If every country used the same logic then the world would be in a state of eternal never-ending warfare. And as it was Bush allowed them to hit us first anyway didnt he-then proceeded to invade the people who didnt do it
Iraq could have also been the world's largest supermarket if Hussein wanted it to be. He didn't want that, nor did he want to fight terrorism.

Don't start that crap about Bush knowing about 9/11. If Clinton had handled Bin Laden when he had the chance to, there would have been no worries about him.

What is wrong with being called a "hippy"?

Because hippies are filthy, anti-corporate, protesting-for-no-reason, drug-smoking, scum-of-society-type people.

Because hippies are filthy, anti-corporate, protesting-for-no-reason, drug-smoking, scum-of-society-type people.
There's a homeless man that hangs out in B'ham, and he has a sign that says "Protester" on it. No one knows what he's protesting though.

I wouldn't call him a hippy, just homeless with nothing to do.

Iraq could have also been the world's largest supermarket if Hussein wanted it to be. He didn't want that, nor did he want to fight terrorism.
Reagan and Bush Sr. handed the ball off to Saddam and when he got near the goal line, they tripped him, took the ball off of him and threw a few long bombs over his goal line.

Don't start that crap about Bush knowing about 9/11. If Clinton had handled Bin Laden when he had the chance to, there would have been no worries about him.
Is this the same Bin Laden that George was going to smoke out of his cave, and hunt him down four years ago? Perhaps the US could have caught him if they didn't send 150,000 troops into Iraq instead?

Because hippies are filthy, anti-corporate, protesting-for-no-reason, drug-smoking, scum-of-society-type people.
Do you really know any "hippies"?
Most of the ones I grew up with, are respectable businessmen today with families and responsibilities. Damn liberals!! :D

Kaaaaaahhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!

Do you really know any "hippies"?
Most of the ones I grew up with, are respectable businessmen today with families and responsibilities. Damn liberals!! :D
Bah, hippy is only really an insult if said in a Cartman voice. Otherwise it's got no actual insulting power.

Bravo for Jane!! This war on Iraq is more politically wrong than the Vietnam War.

*CanuckHeaven* muses about Bush's possible slogans for the war on Iraq:

"Killing innocent people to prove that killing innocent people is wrong"

"We will give you "democracy" even if it kills you"

"Our "democracy" is to die for"

"Don't worry people of Iraq, we will save your oil wells first"

I'm still waiting on proof that this is a war for oil. I haven't seen nothing yet to this affect.

in the future people will speak in one word sentences

TRA give up. Do I have to drag my sister out of bed to wack you some more?

Iraq couldve been an important ally in the fight against terrorism but Bush blew it.

Now this is funny as hell! How the hell can Iraq be an ally when Saddam already declared himself an enemy of the United States? Anyone see something wrong with this picture?

also preemptive war is inherently unamerican because its an act of aggression.If every country used the same logic then the world would be in a state of eternal never-ending warfare. And as it was Bush allowed them to hit us first anyway didnt he-then proceeded to invade the people who didnt do it

Inherently unamerican? That's it. Now I"m dying from laughter. LOL!!!

Your theories are strange and disturbing.

Get used to it Tony. He never posts factual information. Just tease him like the rest of us.

Ronald Reagan and George Herbert Bush didn't find that to be a problem?

The enemy of thy enemy is thy friend.

We did ally with a dictator like Saddam. In fact, we gave him chemical weapons, which he used against the Iranians and later the Kurds.

Actually this is false. The USSR actually did that and not the US. We didn't give Saddam chemical weapons. Saddam used the weapons he made using USSR methods or those given to him by the USSR. That's been proven in studies.

I don't know how Jane Fonda can really talk about how she speaks for Veteran's Rights when she went over and played with the VC during Vietnam. Makes no sense to me, unless I am missing something really big.

Your not. This is ludicrous and a ploy to to redo her image with the military.

in her earlier incarnations Jane Fonda was prone to over excitablitity but her values have always been above reproach

LOL!!! I don't consider consorting with the enemy to be above reproach.

I care because the people buried in mass graves wont let me forget

Then you should be supporting Bush because he ousted the leader that put people into mass graves.

Bah, hippy is only really an insult if said in a Cartman voice. Otherwise it's got no actual insulting power.

Cartman: "What did I do?!"

Officer Barbrady: "You can't kidnap people and lock them in your basement."

Cartman: "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"

:D

I'm still waiting on proof that this is a war for oil. I haven't seen nothing yet to this affect.
I gave you more than enough proof to choke a horse. You just choose to ignore it and most other posts that reflect badly on your leader.

Fuck Jane Fonda, I really couldn't give less of a shit what she has to say about anything.

Then you should be supporting Bush because he ousted the leader that put people into mass graves.
You mean the Iraqi people who ended up in mass graves the last time they supported a Bush?

During the 1991 Gulf War, then President George Bush, father of the present White House incumbent, urged Shi'ite Muslims in the south and Kurds in the north of Iraq to rise up against Saddam.

Then he stood by and watched the Iraqi president slaughter tens of thousands of them.

It appears that Bushs are bad for Iraqis?

I gave you more than enough proof to choke a horse. You just choose to ignore it and most other posts that reflect badly on your leader.

You haven't provided any. THere is no evidence that it is for oil. Now provide some or admit that you are wrong on this too. You still haven't admitted the last time you where wrong.

You mean the Iraqi people who ended up in mass graves the last time they supported a Bush?

What about the people that wound up there BEFORE that happened? WHat about the Torture Rooms? The Rape Rooms? Have you forgotten about those? I guess you just don't care about those.

During the 1991 Gulf War, then President George Bush, father of the present White House incumbent, urged Shi'ite Muslims in the south and Kurds in the north of Iraq to rise up against Saddam.

I remember that but backed down to, of all things, pressure.

Then he stood by and watched the Iraqi president slaughter tens of thousands of them.

He was pressured to back down. Something along the lines of creating a power vaccuum or something along those lines.

It appears that Bushs are bad for Iraqis?

And yet this President Bush liberated 25 million people! Next

You haven't provided any. THere is no evidence that it is for oil. Now provide some or admit that you are wrong on this too. You still haven't admitted the last time you where wrong.
I did not admit I was wrong because I wasn't. I could post another 20 posts and you would deny them all. You get stuck and stay stuck.

Now, back to why this war in Iraq is wrong.......

I did not admit I was wrong because I wasn't. I could post another 20 posts and you would deny them all. You get stuck and stay stuck.

Now, back to why this war in Iraq is wrong.......

Which it isn't. I"m still waiting on Proof that its for oil :rolleyes:

What about the people that wound up there BEFORE that happened? WHat about the Torture Rooms? The Rape Rooms? Have you forgotten about those? I guess you just don't care about those.
You mean like Abu Gharib and Guantanamo? Yes I remember those only too vividly.

I remember that but backed down to, of all things, pressure.
That is not what Noam Chomsky believes?

He was pressured to back down. Something along the lines of creating a power vaccuum or something along those lines.
Something like the vacuum in Iraq right now that is sucking the lives out of innocent Iraqis, and coalition forces?

And yet this President Bush liberated 25 million people! Next
What a hell of a way to liberate a country, by killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, destroying their cities and towns, forcing elections, building bases, and disrupting their power and water supplies.

A forced, illegal, immoral liberation. :(

alternet.org
Unadulterated bullshit!

You mean like Abu Gharib and Guantanamo? Yes I remember those only too vividly.

Nice dodge of my question. Did we rape those people? Nope. Torture? Not really. Next?

That is not what Noam Chomsky believes?

Who cares what that idiot believes!

Noam ChomskyHe was pressured to back down. Something along the lines of creating a power vaccuum or something along those lines.
Something like the vacuum in Iraq right now that is sucking the lives out of innocent Iraqis, and coalition forces?

*yawns*

What a hell of a way to liberate a country, by killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, destroying their cities and towns, forcing elections, building bases, and disrupting their power and water supplies.

And Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and we didn't kill tens of thousands. Only 10 thousand and even then we're not responsible for all of those either. I also like to know just how many of those "civilians" are actually insurgents/terrorists!

A forced, illegal, immoral liberation. :(

How is enforcing 17 UN resolutions immoral? How is enforcing a UN Cease-Fire immoral?

You mean like Abu Gharib and Guantanamo? Yes I remember those only too vividly.


That is not what Noam Chomsky believes?

Noam ChomskyHe was pressured to back down. Something along the lines of creating a power vaccuum or something along those lines.
Something like the vacuum in Iraq right now that is sucking the lives out of innocent Iraqis, and coalition forces?


What a hell of a way to liberate a country, by killing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, destroying their cities and towns, forcing elections, building bases, and disrupting their power and water supplies.

A forced, illegal, immoral liberation. :([/QUOTE]

Yeah, because we're really raping all those Terrorists in AG and GB. :rolleyes:

Most of the Iraqis we killed were insurgents.

90% of Iraqis turned out on election day. I wouldn't call that forced by any stretch of the word "force".

Read this: http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/2000/09/iraq-000918.htm The liberation was completely justified.

Most of the Iraqis we killed were insurgents.
Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have died as the result of the US invasion.

It is okay to kill "insurgents", even if they are trying to protect "their" country?

90% of Iraqis turned out on election day. I wouldn't call that forced by any stretch of the word "force".
Nowhere near 90% turnout for the election. Nice try.

The US picked the election date.

US troops guarded the polling stations.

Most Sunnis boycotted the election.

Read this: http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/2000/09/iraq-000918.htm The liberation was completely justified.
The crime list against Saddam does not jusify the illegal invasion of Iraq, and killing innocent, men, women, and children.

They're not defending their country, they're defending the Baathist Regime.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.main/
It was actually 72%, but still, much more of a turnout than America's election.

Would you expect a country in turmoil to be able to choose their own election date? We did them a favor.

We guarded polling stations to make sure insurgents wouldn't bomb them.

The War in itself was justified. Would you rather have let Saddam in power, and have him continue conducting mass genocide?

Thank you Mods for removing that awful VectorBlaze from the game. We hates him, we do.

(Fire, FIRE FIRE!! EH HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH!)

Like how they're going to d-e-l-e-t-e you Junior?

OMG Jane Fonda is speaking up for the troops!! That means supporting our troops is Communism!!

Well, back to Fonda. Hopefully she's a little more careful this time. Last time she let them talk her into going over and posing for a few pictures with the enemies of American service personnel and they took pictures of her sitting in their most effective weapon, the anti-aircraft battery.

If she hasn't learned her lesson, this time they'll talk her into going over there to pose for some picture, then they will have her pose with their most effective weapon and they'll likely strap a vest full of explosives onto her back and tell her to smile next to the intersection as a convoy drives by, just before someone pushes the button...

Wow, she's back? Amazing, I mean without her family name nobody would give a shit about her anyway.

They're not defending their country, they're defending the Baathist Regime.
The "Baathist Regime" doesn't exist anymore, because it was outlawed by Bremer's Orders. They are defending "their" country from the illegal occupiers.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.main/
It was actually 72%, but still, much more of a turnout than America's election.
Do I hear less than 50% (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/election/2005/0120legitimise.htm)?

Would you expect a country in turmoil to be able to choose their own election date? We did them a favor.
Why chose an election date while the country is still in turmoil and foreign troops would be needed to guard the polling stations?

We guarded polling stations to make sure insurgents wouldn't bomb them.
How conducive is that to free and fair elections?

The War in itself was justified. Would you rather have let Saddam in power, and have him continue conducting mass genocide?
Saddam hasn't been mass murdering civilians since the Gulf War.

Is it justified to kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis to prove that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong?

Ahhh, good ol' trolls and their musty flamebait.