NationStates Jolt Archive

Who would have a better shot at beating Hillary in 2008? I would say Condoleezza Rice has a better shot at it, but that's just my opinion... the way I figure, the Rednecks wouldn't vote for her, and thus not vote at all, while many blacks and other minority groups would probably vote for her just to see the first black in office, because if she were to lose they probably wouldn't have another chance for a hundred years. I'm thinkin' Condi probably won't run, though. Who do all of you think would have a better chance at taking Hillary down, keeping in mind "The Bill Factor," of course?

PS: I know many of those listed probably will not run, and some will definately not run. I am just interested in which of these you think could beat Hillary assuming both they and she ran.

No dice. Hillary is the man!

Condi has no chance, she isn't a credible candidate. Plus, she's got that look on her face like she's been sucking on a lemon.

EDIT : Rudy could take it if he ran. Everyone loves Rudy.

I agree. Go, Condi, go Condi!

Hillary is the man!
Well, you're right about one thing...

Condi has no chance, she isn't a credible candidate. Plus, she's got that look on her face like she's been sucking on a lemon.
She may not be credible, but I said to assume it is each of those people versus Hillary, and choose who you think would do the best.

Niccolo, just curious: why do you say McCain?

Well, you're right about one thing...
I think that joke was implied.


She may not be credible, but I said to assume it is each of those people versus Hillary, and choose who you think would do the best.
I know. I think Rudy could win, I just don't see any others on the list as presidential material, especially Condoleeza. I don't think she could hack the pressure and voters would sense that in her campaign.

Though you know Bush Jr. is going to be there running at some point.

I think that joke was implied.
Haha, I am aware, I was just dragging it on until it was dead like I always do.

I know. I think Rudy could win, I just don't see any others on the list as presidential material, especially Condoleeza. I don't think she could hack the pressure and voters would sense that in her campaign.

Though you know Bush Jr. is going to be there running at some point.
Well, I don't know about Condi not being able to hack the pressure, she's been in some pretty mean situations defending the Bush White House and held her own without breaking too bad. I like Rudy much more than I like Condi, I just think she has a better chance of winning than he does.

Who would have a better shot at beating Hillary in 2008?

A large man named Bruno that lives down the street. I hear he is good with a bat...

Rofl!

Haha, I am aware, I was just dragging it on until it was dead like I always do.


Well, I don't know about Condi not being able to hack the pressure, she's been in some pretty mean situations defending the Bush White House and held her own without breaking too bad. I like Rudy much more than I like Condi, I just think she has a better chance of winning than he does.

Lol.

Yeah you're probably right about Condi. I just don't like her, no charisma. Everyone loves Rudy though, even many liberals. He has the sympathy vote. If over half of America voted for Bush, who was behind the war on terror so much, how much love is the guy who got so much coverage in NYC after 9/11 for being such a good leader gonna get?

Anyway, I'm not an American so I don't know what the perception is like over there ATM anyway. Well I'm signing off, time to catch them ZZZZZs.

Yeah you're probably right about Condi. I just don't like her, no charisma. Everyone loves Rudy though, even many liberals. He has the sympathy vote. If over half of America voted for Bush, who was behind the war on terror so much, how much love is the guy who got so much coverage in NYC after 9/11 for being such a good leader gonna get?

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Condi, but, in my not-so-humble opinion, she's a lot better than Hillary.

Giuliani is vulnerable because he lacks Federal experience. He might get the White House sometime, but he'd need to go through either a Governorship, or a prominent Cabinet post (maybe Attorney-General, considering how he cleaned up New York). He also might be too liberal to get past the primaries.

John McCain has two problems, first, he's a Senator, and they rarely get elected, and secondly, he's a RINO (Republican In Name Only)

Jeb Bush, possibly, he's shown good leadership in a crisis (hurricanes), and has executive experience.

Cheney, too old, and in relatively poor health. There'd be serious concerns about his medical fitness to serve a full term.

I went for Rice.

McCain isn't Republican enough for them to nominate him.

Jeb Bush has publicly said that he doesn't want to be the President (of course he might run anyway :rolleyes: )

There's no way in hell the current Republican party is going to try to elect an African American woman for President.

Dick Cheney is a robot.

Rudy Giuliani is going to lose major points with the religious right due to his somewhat questionable moral record.

Giuliani is vulnerable because he lacks Federal experience. He might get the White House sometime, but he'd need to go through either a Governorship, or a prominent Cabinet post (maybe Attorney-General, considering how he cleaned up New York). He also might be too liberal to get past the primaries.
That is true, but he helped New York so much that I'm sure he could get a lot of support.

John McCain has two problems, first, he's a Senator, and they rarely get elected, and secondly, he's a RINO (Republican In Name Only)
I agree completely, I really don't like McCain, I just put him up because a lot of people do.

Jeb Bush, possibly, he's shown good leadership in a crisis (hurricanes), and has executive experience.
Maybe, but I doubt he could take on Hillary. He doesn't have the national appeal required to take on a Clinton.

Cheney, too old, and in relatively poor health. There'd be serious concerns about his medical fitness to serve a full term.
Agreed, but I know there are a few people that want to see him run. I wouldn't mind him if he weren't such an old bastard... He's heartless and obnoxious, my kind of guy.

There's no way in hell the current Republican party is going to try to elect an African American woman for President.
I wouldn't be so sure, it may be our best bet, and despite what many Dems seem to think, the vast majority aren't ignorant rednecks, or biblethumpers.

Dick Cheney is a robot.
Yeah, well, Kerry was a tree hugger, and look how much support he got.

Rudy Giuliani is going to lose major points with the religious right due to his somewhat questionable moral record.
Pfft, bullshit. The religious right's gonna vote Republican no matter what we do; there's no way in Hell they'd vote for a Democrat, which is why it pisses me off when Republicans give them what they want.

As a Democrat, the only one on that list who keeps me sweating--and this is because I'm factoring in who can make it through the primaries--is McCain, because he's got this undeserved reputation as a moderate and is still conservative enough that the base won't leave him in droves, like they would a Giuliani. Jeb would be a formidable opponent, but for him so much depends on how Iraq is doing, since he's a PNAC signatory, and on how his daughter is doing, if she's managed to stay out of jail for a while. But McCain is the one who makes me worry.

There's no way in hell the current Republican party is going to try to elect an African American woman for President.

Donkey bollocks. They've had more African-American Sec's State than the Democrats (2-0). They also don't have a problem with Hispanics, Asian-Americans, and an Arab-American (Spencer Abraham).

Who has a better chance of beating Hillary in 2008? Assume she runs.
I don't see "The guy with the stick" on the poll.

John McCain has two problems, first, he's a Senator, and they rarely get elected, and secondly, he's a RINO (Republican In Name Only)

I always laugh when I see this--McCain has one of the most solidly conservative voting records in the Senate and has for years, and yet somehow he has this rep as being a RINO. It's almost as funny as the right's attempt to paint john Edwards as the 4th most liberal Senator last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manawskistan
Rudy Giuliani is going to lose major points with the religious right due to his somewhat questionable moral record.

Pfft, bullshit. The religious right's gonna vote Republican no matter what we do; there's no way in Hell they'd vote for a Democrat, which is why it pisses me off when Republicans give them what they want.

The concern on the part of the Republican establishment is not that the religious right would suddenly switch to voting Democrat, it's that they would become sufficiently disenchanted as to stay away from the polls altogether, which would swing certain key states to the Democrats.

Donkey bollocks. They've had more African-American Sec's State than the Democrats (2-0). They also don't have a problem with Hispanics, Asian-Americans, and an Arab-American (Spencer Abraham).Appointed vs. elected--try running Condi in South Carolina and see how far she gets--that's the state that derailed McCain in 2000 because of push-polling that told voters McCain had a mixed-race child. And the rest of the south is the same way. Sure, she'd pull some black voters away from the Dems, but would it be enough? I doubt it, and at the very least, it would make safe Republican states competitive for the Dems.

As a Democrat, the only one on that list who keeps me sweating--and this is because I'm factoring in who can make it through the primaries--is McCain, because he's got this undeserved reputation as a moderate and is still conservative enough that the base won't leave him in droves, like they would a Giuliani. Jeb would be a formidable opponent, but for him so much depends on how Iraq is doing, since he's a PNAC signatory, and on how his daughter is doing, if she's managed to stay out of jail for a while. But McCain is the one who makes me worry.

LOL! McCain's reputation as a dirty moderate is very deserved. He's probably one of the ten most conservative conservatives, economically speaking, out there; one of the ten least conservative conservatices, socially speaking, out there; and I believe his tendency as a conservative to side with the liberals on foreign policy is second to only one person, though their name escapes me at the time. Giuliani is definately more widely appealing because too many conservatives don't like McCain very much for being such a lollygagging pussy.

"Who Would Have a Better Shot at Beating Hillary?"

What about Colin Powell? Has he completely ruled out a run for the Presidency? I have enormous respect for this man and would work my ass off to help him win.

Of those you listed, I think Rudy Guilianni and Condoleeza Rice would have the best chance.

Appointed vs. elected--try running Condi in South Carolina and see how far she gets--that's the state that derailed McCain in 2000 because of push-polling that told voters McCain had a mixed-race child. And the rest of the south is the same way. Sure, she'd pull some black voters away from the Dems, but would it be enough? I doubt it, and at the very least, it would make safe Republican states competitive for the Dems.

Ummm, wrong. McCain is one of the least conservative conservatives in the Senate. Look it up, he's probably in the bottom fifteen percent.

Hahaha, Condi would still win the redneck vote overall. Granted, two-thirds of my family members down south are Democrats, but I'm 75% redneck, so I do know rednecks - only on my Dad's Grandpa's side do I not have ancestry in "the South." Most are not as racist as everyone seems to think they are, and, even the super-redneck ones that are racist would still take a Republican over a Democrat any day.

"Who Would Have a Better Shot at Beating Hillary?"

What about Colin Powell? Has he completely ruled out a run for the Presidency? I have enormous respect for this man and would work my ass off to help him win.
Yeah, I think Sean Hannity is a more probable candidate than Powell.

Of those you listed, I think Rudy Guilianni and Condoleeza Rice would have the best chance.
Agreed.

I always laugh when I see this--McCain has one of the most solidly conservative voting records in the Senate and has for years, and yet somehow he has this rep as being a RINO. It's almost as funny as the right's attempt to paint john Edwards as the 4th most liberal Senator last year.
John Edwards was Governor of my State, North Carolina. He is a rather left-leaning individual, and his voting record in the State bear this out.

The concern on the part of the Republican establishment is not that the religious right would suddenly switch to voting Democrat, it's that they would become sufficiently disenchanted as to stay away from the polls altogether, which would swing certain key states to the Democrats.
Hehe, despite what you may have heard, the true "religious right," like, the ones that go down the street singing horrid songs and patting their bibles and molesting small children, the religious right is not that prevalent on a state-by-state basis. Most people that a Democrat would call members of the religious right are actually not that big on pushing God into politics, they are just highly moral.

Hmmm, that's somewhat surprising; Condi is trailing Giuliani and McCain in the polls. Discuss, lol.

Just curious, is everyone that voted for McCain as the GOP's best bet against Hillary a Democrat, or at least fairly liberal? I don't know them all, but they're Geecka, Niccolo Medici, The Nazz, Ubiqtorate, Uginin, and Willamena. Not asking this in a mocking way, I just want to know if he is actually getting some support from the Republicans as our best bet.

Any man could beat her.

It isn't that hard. More people would go for a male president than a female one, simply because there are enough chauvist pigs out there to make it happen.

And if anything, Rice would run into trouble because she's black and a woman... thus earning more bigots who won't vote for her.

Any man could beat her.

It isn't that hard. More people would go for a male president than a female one, simply because there are enough chauvist pigs out there to make it happen.

ROFL! Wrong. You're completely ignoring "The Bill Factor." She's married to what many Democrats see as the best President since JFK - neither of which I like, but I'm not a Dem, either.

I can't believe a couple of people voted for Cheney and DeLay..lol If you want to ruin the Republican party, pick them..lol :D

I can't believe a couple of people voted for Cheney and DeLay..lol If you want to ruin the Republican party, pick them..lol :D

Hey, now! I loathe the latter, but I like the former. Cheney is a heartless, arrogant, self-centered prick who is obnoxious as hell and never thinks with his heart... my kind of guy. Sure, he's gonna die soon, and he doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell at beating Hillary, but don't bash people just for likin' him.

Sure, she'd pull some black voters away from the Dems, but would it be enough?

The Republicans are already pulling black voters away from the Dem's, and will increasingly do so provided the Dems stick to treating blacks as a given block vote.

Rice will only accelerate black departure from the Democrat's plantation.

Ummm, wrong. McCain is one of the least conservative conservatives in the Senate. Look it up, he's probably in the bottom fifteen percent.

Hahaha, Condi would still win the redneck vote overall. Granted, two-thirds of my family members down south are Democrats, but I'm 75% redneck, so I do know rednecks - only on my Dad's Grandpa's side do I not have ancestry in "the South." Most are not as racist as everyone seems to think they are, and, even the super-redneck ones that are racist would still take a Republican over a Democrat any day.
Born and raised in the south, with southern ancestry stretching back as far as the eye can see, so I know whereof I speak as well. I'm not saying that the entire south is racist--I thought I made that pretty clear, although that might have been another post on the same subject. But what the racist base in the south does do for the Republicans is provide their margins of victory--that ten to twelve percent that puts them over the top--and without that vote, the south is suddenly in play again, and the Republicans need the south to win presidential elections. They can't win without it.

So if Condi were able ot get the nomination, that group would largely either stay home or go third party, sort of like what happened to the Democrats in the late 60s, early 70s with the Dixiecrats. Don't get me wrong--I'd love to see an African-American head either major ticket--my reasons for not liking Condi have to do with her job performance thus far, not her race--but the way the electoral college shakes out right now, it won't happen in the Republican party. It won't happen any time soon in the Democratic party either, which is a shame as well.

And I have looked it up with McCain--I suggest you do so as well, because it may surprise you. He's pro-life, he's very economically conservative, he's as big a hawk as you'll find. The reason he's got a rep as a moderate is because of campaign finance reform--that's it. I'm not trying to dis anyone here--I was thinking about voting for him 6 years ago until I actually looked at his record and discovered how socially conservative he was. It shocked the hell out of me, let me tell you.

John Edwards was Governor of my State, North Carolina. He is a rather left-leaning individual, and his voting record in the State bear this out.No he wasn't Eutrusca--he was your Senator, and while he may have seemed left-leaning to you, his voting record over his limited career in the Senate put him on the right side of the Democratic party--about 35th out of the 49 Democratic Senators we had at the time. That's pretty moderate by the scale we have to work with in the Senate.

Anyone and everyone :sniper:

I really hope Condi runs, she'd lay the smack down on Hillary. As for "Maverick" John McCain, he once again won't make it past the primaries.

Born and raised in the south, with southern ancestry stretching back as far as the eye can see, so I know whereof I speak as well. I'm not saying that the entire south is racist--I thought I made that pretty clear, although that might have been another post on the same subject. But what the racist base in the south does do for the Republicans is provide their margins of victory--that ten to twelve percent that puts them over the top--and without that vote, the south is suddenly in play again, and the Republicans need the south to win presidential elections. They can't win without it.
Are you actually going to sit there and tell me that the entire racist base of the South vote Republican, and that twenty percent of Republican voters in the South are racist (10% of all voters out of 55% or so is around 20%)? You're high. The Republicans would do much better without the redneck vote than the Democrats would do without the minority vote.

So if Condi were able ot get the nomination, that group would largely either stay home or go third party, sort of like what happened to the Democrats in the late 60s, early 70s with the Dixiecrats. Don't get me wrong--I'd love to see an African-American head either major ticket--my reasons for not liking Condi have to do with her job performance thus far, not her race--but the way the electoral college shakes out right now, it won't happen in the Republican party. It won't happen any time soon in the Democratic party either, which is a shame as well.
To suggest that a black will never be elected as a member of the Republican party, but that in the distant future it might happen in the Democratic party, is completely laughable, considering the fact that Republicans have had more black Presidential appointees than the Democrats.

And I have looked it up with McCain--I suggest you do so as well, because it may surprise you. He's pro-life, he's very economically conservative, he's as big a hawk as you'll find. The reason he's got a rep as a moderate is because of campaign finance reform--that's it. I'm not trying to dis anyone here--I was thinking about voting for him 6 years ago until I actually looked at his record and discovered how socially conservative he was. It shocked the hell out of me, let me tell you.
I did look those stats up, you presumptuous dolt. They are complete fact, he is relatively close to the liberal end of the conservative spectrum according to how he has actually voted overall, not just based on campaign finance reform. And a pro-life stance is not a very conservative stance, either, there are many Democrats who are pro-life because their hearts are too big. Congratulations on making a fool of yourself.

No he wasn't Eutrusca--he was your Senator, and while he may have seemed left-leaning to you, his voting record over his limited career in the Senate put him on the right side of the Democratic party--about 35th out of the 49 Democratic Senators we had at the time. That's pretty moderate by the scale we have to work with in the Senate.

He said is a left-leaning individual, not was or has been. As per his most recent years in the Senate, he was in the top five, not thirty-fifth.

Any one of them could do it, Clinton is too polarizing to win an election. I doubt she'll even get the nomination, since the Democrats seem to know this.

If that woman becomes Preisdent of this country, I will be forced to seriously consider leaving the country. At least until she's out of office. I know a lot of people say that about a lot of presidents, but I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate that woman.

ROFL! Wrong. You're completely ignoring "The Bill Factor." She's married to what many Democrats see as the best President since JFK - neither of which I like, but I'm not a Dem, either.

Bill Clinton was the best Republican President since Reagan. :D

(Seriously... I take the impotent gun control legislation and the welfare reforms as GOP issues anyway!)

Seriously, can everyone that has voted for McCain so far post here with their party of choice? Because I would be truly surprised if 3 out of the 11 were Republicans.

Rogue Newbie, do you want to rule out George Allen, Sam Brownback, Mitt Romney,and George Pataki? Each one of them is a possible '08 Rebublican nominee, am I wrong?

Bill Clinton was the best Republican President since Reagan. :D

(Seriously... I take the impotent gun control legislation and the welfare reforms as GOP issues anyway!)
I must note that the only reason Clinton was anything near competent in office was because he had a Republican congress to balance out and reject all of his stupid shit and vice versa. To me, this was the best argument for voting Kerry in the '04 election: to keep the White House and Congress in opposition.

Rogue Newbie, do you want to rule out George Allen, Sam Brownback, Mitt Romney,and George Pataki? Each one of them is a possible '08 Rebublican nominee, am I wrong?

Do you really think Pataki's got a better shot at taking Hillary than Giuliani? If so, I apologize for not listing them.

I must note that the only reason Clinton was anything near competent in office was because he had a Republican congress to balance out and reject all of his stupid shit and vice versa. To me, this was the best argument for voting Kerry in the '04 election: to keep the White House and Congress in opposition.

I gotta agree: most of the time, the markets do better when Congress is split AS WELL.

Do you really think Pataki's got a better shot at taking Hillary than Giuliani? If so, I apologize for not listing them.
I don't think so, but Pataki is a viable candidate for a nomination, and I think that his chances to become a Republican candidate are better than those of Cheney and Jeb, not to mention DeLay.

I must note that the only reason Clinton was anything near competent in office was because he had a Republican congress to balance out and reject all of his stupid shit and vice versa. To me, this was the best argument for voting Kerry in the '04 election: to keep the White House and Congress in opposition.

I hate to say it, but I, too, must agree... however, I would have rathered seen Bush stay and the Senate switch power, while keeping the House the same.

I don't think so, but Pataki is a viable candidate for a nomination, and I think that his chances to become a Republican candidate are better than those of Cheney and Jeb, not to mention DeLay.

Fair enough, but I picked those three because there are things that make them more unique candidates that also may give them a step-up on Hillary in some people's eyes.

Cheney: He's got balls. I like balls.
Jeb: He's a Bush.
DeLay: He's a moron.

As much as I think Dubya is a complete waste of flesh and oxygen, his brother, Jeb Bush seems like a slightly more reasonable moderate alternative choice. Plus, he has also shown that he knows the bounds of the law, such as with Mrs. Shiavo. Yes, he wanted to take her into state custody, but after a court ruling, he cited that he respected tht decision. And, his handling of the hurricanes was also fairly good. For a Republican, he's not too repulsive, but he is still right wing, but he's not one of those 'Look at me, I went off the deep end but I'm not that extreme - let's ban homosexuals from breathing!' kind of douche; just an average politician kind of douche-y asshole. :D

Against Hillary Rotham-Clinton? That might be a good match up. It'd be an interesting race.

Who would have a better shot at beating Hillary in 2008? I would say Condoleezza Rice has a better shot at it, but that's just my opinion... the way I figure, the Rednecks wouldn't vote for her, and thus not vote at all, while many blacks and other minority groups would probably vote for her just to see the first black in office, because if she were to lose they probably wouldn't have another chance for a hundred years. I'm thinkin' Condi probably won't run, though. Who do all of you think would have a better chance at taking Hillary down, keeping in mind "The Bill Factor," of course?

PS: I know many of those listed probably will not run, and some will definately not run. I am just interested in which of these you think could beat Hillary assuming both they and she ran.


No way. To be President you have to have a certain element of chrisma. Hillary does, Condalezza doesn't. Hillary has really changed her ways. Most surprisingly she has assoiciated herself with prominent Republicans. I don't know if she could ever win the Presidency. A woman as the American President is a huge step. You can't really compare Tatcher to her. But to the best of my knowledge a women hasn't run for PM since.
Any more memebers of the Bush family and it'll be time to throw ourselves off a very tall building. A lot of people like Mc Cain, Dean too. Guliani would make a terrible president. Yes he was great after 9/11,but theres noway he'd cut it on the international front..tho he'd b better than whats there now!

Jeb, Guiliani and Rice would beat her in a heartbeat. McCain would have alot of trouble getting some of the more moderate red states to vote for him, since the base there would be relitively apathetic to such an election

No way. To be President you have to have a certain element of chrisma. Hillary does, Condalezza doesn't. Hillary has really changed her ways. Most surprisingly she has assoiciated herself with prominent Republicans. I don't know if she could ever win the Presidency. A woman as the American President is a huge step. You can't really compare Tatcher to her. But to the best of my knowledge a women hasn't run for PM since.
First of all, I would hardly consider Hillary Clinton a charismatic person, in fact you are the first person I have ever heard call Hillary charismatic - so Hillary and Condi are on equal footing there. Second of all, she could definately win, as partisanship and the fact that she's Bill's wife would greatly outweigh the fact that she has a *****.
Any more memebers of the Bush family and it'll be time to throw ourselves off a very tall building. A lot of people like Mc Cain, Dean too. Guliani would make a terrible president. Yes he was great after 9/11,but theres noway he'd cut it on the international front..tho he'd b better than whats there now!
People like Dean? Could have fooled me. I also wouldn't equate having Jeb come in for George to throwing oneself off of a building - they're hardly the same person. For example, Jeb doesn't add nearly as many words to the English language as his brother. Giuliani would make a much better President than any we've had in the last fifteen years - do you have any idea what that man has done for New York? Besides, this thread wasn't created to argue about various candidates' policies, who they're related to, or make baseless claims that they'd suck nationally when they've been so successful locally... this thread was made simply to say which of those listed has the best shot at being Hillary, assuming she ran, and why.

Donkey bollocks. They've had more African-American Sec's State than the Democrats (2-0). They also don't have a problem with Hispanics, Asian-Americans, and an Arab-American (Spencer Abraham).
You want to know what black people think of Condi? Dave Chappell has a sketch on just that subject. Check out the racial draft. That said, she's just awful at her job, it's hard to imagine anyone being significantly worse. She's all rolodex and no talent. The only people who love her are new republicans dreaming of gaming the system. Besides there's way too much footage of her lying and contradicting herself on national TV.

McCain would never be nominated. Rudy, man the shitstorm that would burry him would be an awesome spectical. Jeb would probably have been a better choice than his brother, but I just can't see people going for the triple, and Florida has been far more of a public disaster than Texas was under his brother. Cheney is going to die, he'll be lucky to make it to 2008 at all. DeLay could certainly get nominated, but how threatening would he be to the apathetic liberals? Too threatening to win? Frist might as well be anonymous, his lone advantage is that the MD vote isn't an important block. Newt has a much better shot. He's got charisma, he's got a new book, people know who he is, he knows the right people, most of his dirty laundry is either really old or really boring, he might be able to Clinton his way out of trouble. He might not have much in the way of votes, but he's got a lot of the important advantages, and not a lot in the way of big weaknesses.

You want to know what black people think of Condi? Dave Chappell has a sketch on just that subject. Check out the racial draft. That said, she's just awful at her job, it's hard to imagine anyone being significantly worse. She's all rolodex and no talent. The only people who love her are new republicans dreaming of gaming the system. Besides there's way too much footage of her lying and contradicting herself on national TV.
Pretty much the worst thing you can do to prove a point about someone politically is mention a comedy sketch - however great a sketch it may have been. Also, I beg to differ on Condi's talent. She's had to beat back a lot of bloodthirsty people from all walks of politics, and she's done it without too many major fuck-ups. Also, I would like to know what you are referring to when you call her a liar, because you're probably wrong, by definition.

McCain would never be nominated.
We hope.
Rudy, man the shitstorm that would burry him would be an awesome spectical.
Pfft, bullshit, the innumerable ways in which he has helped NY bury his dirty laundry.
Jeb would probably have been a better choice than his brother, but I just can't see people going for the triple, and Florida has been far more of a public disaster than Texas was under his brother.
I wouldn't say Florida has been a public disaster - at least as a result of anything Jeb has done. He handles things there very well. But, no, I think he already said he wasn't running, I was just asking if you thought he could beat Hillary.
Cheney is going to die, he'll be lucky to make it to 2008 at all.
Fair enough.
DeLay could certainly get nominated...
God, I hope not.
Newt has a much better shot. He's got charisma, he's got a new book, people know who he is, he knows the right people, most of his dirty laundry is either really old or really boring, he might be able to Clinton his way out of trouble. He might not have much in the way of votes, but he's got a lot of the important advantages, and not a lot in the way of big weaknesses.
I like Newt a lot, too, more than Condi and as much as Giuliani. However, I doubt he's going to run, I just put him there for comparison's sake, like Jeb.

Sorry guys; not to go against the point first made, but Dr. Rice said that she wouldn't consider running for President. Typically, controversial candidates don't win elections unless there's a war or emergency, and Rice isn't exactly one not to be second guessed. For starters she's a young female African American. Thats about as far offbeat as you can get from our ever persistent line of old white men. She's also very intelligent and understanding of issues. So understanding, that her opinions always get questioned and warped by wize guys playing political games. Just look at how she was grilled before confirmed for Secretary of State.

I think McCain would do the job very nicely. He put up a good fight for the Republican Primary in 2000 and is very centrist. He cares for everyone and is not one that is known for attacking others. It's not a weakness, just not his style. When you can get along with guys like John Kerry without stirring anything up because your war pals, that shows you how collected and poised a person is. Juliani's a great guy and would be a nice V-Pres running mate that could run as an incumbent once gaining some popularity, but although he has gone on tours and has made his name well known throughout the country, the US isn't aware ENOUGH of his accomplishments and personality. Some more time in the public eye would do him a whole lot of good.

Beyond that, all of your candidates are too divisive of the American people. That doesn't mean they're not centrists though. The RNC chairman was on Meet the Press this weekend and said that DeLay is very centrist and how people forget how he was a supporter of education, healthcare, and gay rights during the 80s. But still, to run for president, one can not have an edgy personality. You gotta be able to grab guys from the other wing cuz no matter what, you'll never get everyone from your own side.

Sorry guys; not to go against the point first made, but Dr. Rice said that she wouldn't consider running for President. Typically, controversial candidates don't win elections unless there's a war or emergency, and Rice isn't exactly one not to be second guessed. For starters she's a young female African American. Thats about as far offbeat as you can get from our ever persistent line of old white men. She's also very intelligent and understanding of issues. So understanding, that her opinions always get questioned and warped by wize guys playing political games. Just look at how she was grilled before confirmed for Secretary of State.
Well, I wouldn't exactly say controversial candidates never win without a war, but I know Condoleezza said she won't run. So did Hillary... we're just assuming they both do and comparing their odds.

I think McCain would do the job very nicely. He put up a good fight for the Republican Primary in 2000 and is very centrist. He cares for everyone and is not one that is known for attacking others. It's not a weakness, just not his style. When you can get along with guys like John Kerry without stirring anything up because your war pals, that shows you how collected and poised a person is. Juliani's a great guy and would be a nice V-Pres running mate that could run as an incumbent once gaining some popularity, but although he has gone on tours and has made his name well known throughout the country, the US isn't aware ENOUGH of his accomplishments and personality. Some more time in the public eye would do him a whole lot of good.
That is a good point, running Giuliani as VP first would be wise. However, I think you'd be surprised how widely known he is. McCain, gag.

Beyond that, all of your candidates are too divisive of the American people. That doesn't mean they're not centrists though. The RNC chairman was on Meet the Press this weekend and said that DeLay is very centrist and how people forget how he was a supporter of education, healthcare, and gay rights during the 80s. But still, to run for president, one can not have an edgy personality. You gotta be able to grab guys from the other wing cuz no matter what, you'll never get everyone from your own side.
I don't know about all that - the name of your party, for the most part, is more important than anything else. Most people don't think a whole lot about each candidate. The true number of independants (in action and name) is a much smaller one than results from polls. Ask ten people on the street who the Secretary of State is. I'll bet you nine of them either say Colin Powell, or don't know at all.

Pretty much the worst thing you can do to prove a point about someone politically is mention a comedy sketch - however great a sketch it may have been. Also, I beg to differ on Condi's talent. She's had to beat back a lot of bloodthirsty people from all walks of politics, and she's done it without too many major fuck-ups. Also, I would like to know what you are referring to when you call her a liar, because you're probably wrong, by definition.
There's a lot of truth in comedy, it's not funny if there isn't. As to her talent. 1/6th of the people on earth are Chinese, she has a PhD in political science, and entered the Whitehouse with literally no understanding of China. Right there, and question about her talent is answered. No doubt she's better in her specific area of expertise, which might yet be useful as Putin consolidates power. But being so ignorant about the worlds most populous and fastest growing region, that's pretty unacceptable given her credentials. Her inability or unwillingness to find and listen to the people with the proper expertise is inexplicable for anyone in her position. Then there's her disinterest in Osama, thanks national security advisor! Job well done, how about a Presidential medal of freedom, no, promotion then? As for lying, need we refer back to talk of Iraq and mushroom clouds over American cities? And her denial of having had such a conversation. It's clear, she's no idea what she's doing. She might have a talent for political in fighting, but so does John Bolton, and he's not a potential candidate either.

Pfft, bullshit, the innumerable ways in which he has helped NY bury his dirty laundry.
Not against Hillary. Rudy is the cad of a husband, Hillary is the woman wronged. Without the Family Values card, or a born again redemption with which to deal it from the bottom of the deck, he's done. If he were a republican from Bush's mold, he might make a close contest of it. As it is he might take New York, but even that's not a given.

I wouldn't say Florida has been a public disaster - at least as a result of anything Jeb has done. He handles things there very well. But, no, I think he already said he wasn't running, I was just asking if you thought he could beat Hillary.
Florida and Claifornia are continuous disasters. They can't help themselves. Between the 2000 election, tourists getting shot, children's services losing children, sex offenders secretly living one trailer down, the spectacular political corruption endemic to the state (not in any way his fault, but who's watch was it?), a policeman in every Ob/Gyn's office and hospice, special treatment for relatives caught with drugs, he's done. Stick a fork in him. I think his brother threw him under the bus on the offshore drilling too. But Jeb's record is such, that he's only electable in Florida, or as mayor of Washington DC (because what do you have to do to be unelectable there?). Neil Bush has a better chance of beating Hillary. And I think the name is more an obstical than anything else at this point.

I like Newt a lot, too, more than Condi and as much as Giuliani. However, I doubt he's going to run, I just put him there for comparison's sake, like Jeb.
I don't even like Newt. I did get suckered into that Contract with America bullshit though. Instead of blaming my own naivete, I'm going to make myself feel better by chalking it up to an overreaction to the enviroment of the crazy liberal college I was attending at the time. But he's a very compelling presence. He's a southern republican who doesn't scare the hell out of people. People love a good comeback story too. Between his new legislation with Hillary, and other activities, maybe he's trying to put himself back in the public arena for 2008. If he could, and I would bet he could, pull the party solidly behind him, he would be the worst political foe the Democrats have faced since Regean. Personally, I'm hopping DeLay's ego gets the better of him and he and McCain fight it out destroying the Republican party, while the Democrats pull their head out of their ass an put up someone with a worthwhile, practical vision. Of course, I might just start crapping gold bullion too.

Also, I would like to know what you are referring to when you call her a liar, because you're probably wrong, by definition.

Didn't watch the 9/11 Commission, did you.

Arnold would cane Hilary, but the xenophobic bastards in charge won't let him run.
Probably Colin Powell actually has the best chance.

OOh... didn't see McCain or I'd have voted for him. I just skimmed.

Do you know Hillary's security people call her private plane "Broomstick One"! :D (My hubby has worked with them.) :p

I'd love to see McCain and Giuliani together... I can dream...

Just curious, is everyone that voted for McCain as the GOP's best bet against Hillary a Democrat, or at least fairly liberal? I don't know them all, but they're Geecka, Niccolo Medici, The Nazz, Ubiqtorate, Uginin, and Willamena. Not asking this in a mocking way, I just want to know if he is actually getting some support from the Republicans as our best bet.

Guilty as charged. I'm a pretty leftist liberal. :cool:

Arnold would cane Hilary, but the xenophobic bastards in charge won't let him run.
Probably Colin Powell actually has the best chance.

It's not xenophobia. It's just that America was founded on the principle of soverign rule by Americans. That's why Alexander Hamilton was never president, BTW... he was born in Bermuda.

Just curious, is everyone that voted for McCain as the GOP's best bet against Hillary a Democrat, or at least fairly liberal?

Guilty as charged. I'm a leftist liberal. :p

EDIT : Rudy could take it if he ran. Everyone loves Rudy.

I don't think so.

He's pro-choice and cheated on his wife. Republican's can't go national with that kind of baggage.

You know, considering the current government, I'd have to say the people I would want to beat whoever ran would either be the Govenator and Jessie Ventura.

Either that or a re-re monkey, you know what, I think the re-re wiould do better than them too.

I don't think so.

He's pro-choice and cheated on his wife. Republican's can't go national with that kind of baggage.

True. It only works for Democrats from Arkansas. :D

I'd love to see McCain and Giuliani together... I can dream...

I agree. McCain, rightly or wrongly, has a reputation as a centerist. Giuliani is certainly centerist.

In a simple race between a McCain/Giuliani ticket and Clinton/?, the GOP would overwhelmingly back McCain/Giuliani.

The real danger would be the emergence of a Christian right candidate with a Nader effect.

And, for Rogue Newbie's benifit - I am an independant who votes mostly GOP or LP.

Markreich, you do realise that Hamilton would have fallen under the grandfather clause.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Hamilton had been a resident for more than 14 years when the constitutiuon was adopted.

Markreich, you do realise that Hamilton would have fallen under the grandfather clause:

Article. II, Section 1
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Hamilton had been a resident for more than 14 years when the constitutiuon was adopted.

He wasn't a natural born citizen. That's what it all comes down to... same way Arnie isn't.

George Bush won twice with the Evangelicals.
Thus, whoever Republican wants to win an election needs to be a born-again Christian or at least be able to talk to them.

And Arnold should run. The Idea that America should be run by Americans is either xenophobic or ridiculous, as all Americans are immigrants, and Washington wasn't an American either, as he was born in a British colony as a British citizen...

Jeb's a shoo-in.. I've been saying it since November 3. He's practically got his foot in the door.

McCain will NEVER get past the primaries due to his outspoken opposition to some of Bush's policies...and especially for being part of the "Subversive Seven" in the lastest spat over judicial nominees. In fact, I doubt any of those 7 will get re-elected in 2006 because of that. There are huge grassroots groundswells growing against them at this moment.

Giuliani would probably be a good bet due to his "star power". His pro-partial birth abortion stance will hurt him, though.

Condi would be a great bet. She would draw a large number of black votes away from Hillary (due to the Democrats taking the black vote for granted and also for them just treating blacks as second class citizens within the party and in Democrat administrations...blacks are quickly becoming disillusioned with the Democrat party), especially in the South. Also, a lot of Bush supporters would vote for her because of her trusted position within the administration.

I'd like to see Condi run just to watch all the racist Democrats come out of the woodwork. With all the "Aunt Jemima" and "house ******" comments from the Democrats just over her nomination to Secretary of State, can you imagine the outright racism rearing its head if she were to run for president? Hell, if she ran and the race was on pay per view, I'd PAY to see that.

Needless to say, I like Condi.

Jeb's a shoo-in.. I've been saying it since November 3. He's practically got his foot in the door.
I doubt it. The public would revolt...even Republicans. Nobody wants a "dynasty" of presidents from a single family.

I would have to say, and hope None of the Above

Rudy Giulliani - just isn't popular enough, nor could he raise the funds required

John McCain - is an SoB, who speaks different lies to different people without considering the implications, Mr Integrity he's not. I do not like McCain, full stop.

Condi Rice - Cond took big hits from senator Boxer (D) and lost a lot of credibility

Bill Frist - aka Fristy, Frist has a slight chance with ultra- fundamentalist christians thanks to his Justice Sunday B.S., he had a big name for a while, and presumably he has DeLay's support, which counts as a lot, but against Hillary's name recognition he's nothing

Tom DeLay - Not a chance, he's not out and about enough, he's a Kingmaker, not a king

Jeb Bush - Jeb would be an underdog, a member of the Bush clan, he would have the support of the clan, and be a figurehead leader, he could dfinitely carry the NRA (the "Kill Bill") but again, is he well known enough? he'd be relying on the machine to catapult him to power, I do not feel he has the ability to control something so large

George Bush won twice with the Evangelicals.
Thus, whoever Republican wants to win an election needs to be a born-again Christian or at least be able to talk to them.

And Arnold should run. The Idea that America should be run by Americans is either xenophobic or ridiculous, as all Americans are immigrants, and Washington wasn't an American either, as he was born in a British colony as a British citizen...

Everyone born in the 13 colonies automatically became Americans. In theory, had Bermuda become the 14th state, Hamilton could have been President. Washington was most certainly an American.

When Austria comes to it's senses, quits the EU and becomes an American state, Arnie can become President. ;)

Rudy Giulliani - just isn't popular enough, nor could he raise the funds required
Are you kidding? Seriously, that was just a joke, right? Either major party candidate can raise funds very easily. Besides, Giuliani is very well known.

Condi Rice - Cond took big hits from senator Boxer (D) and lost a lot of credibility
You're ignoring three factors: the vagina factor, the partisanship factor, and the black factor.

Jeb Bush - Jeb would be an underdog, a member of the Bush clan, he would have the support of the clan, and be a figurehead leader, he could dfinitely carry the NRA (the "Kill Bill") but again, is he well known enough? he'd be relying on the machine to catapult him to power, I do not feel he has the ability to control something so large
Again, renown really doesn't matter. Bush is his name, so they'd immediately guess in the primaries if they actually didn't know who he was. Besides, I would think most people that actually vote in the primaries could tell you Jeb was governor of Florida.

there's only one man the Republicans can oppose to Hillary and have a true chance to win:
Governor Schwarzenegger

God help America if Jeb Bush becomes president.
Due to the shady nature of George H Bush and George W Bush, he's not going to be any different.

God help America if Jeb Bush becomes president.
Due to the shady nature of George H Bush and George W Bush, he's not going to be any different.

Well, neither one of those were shady, so that's not a very convincing point. George H.W. Bush was a moron, and George W. Bush can't speak standard English, but Jeb doesn't seem to have either of those problems. Clinton, on the other hand, was shady and he was a lollygagging pussy, and he got elected fine.

there's only one man the Republicans can oppose to Hillary and have a true chance to win:
Governor Schwarzenegger

Gag, no. I like Arnold, but, even if it weren't illegal, which it is, I would never vote for a foreigner for President. Too risky. My paranoia outweighs everything else.

Well, neither one of those were shady, so that's not a very convincing point. George H.W. Bush was a moron, and George W. Bush can't speak standard English, but Jeb doesn't seem to have either of those problems. Clinton, on the other hand, was shady and he was a lollygagging pussy, and he got elected fine.

GH Bush did deals with Saddam and co, while GW Bush is associated with the Bin Laden family. Prescott Bush was doing business with the Nazis during WWII, and got caught afterwards. Don't tell me, this family isn't known for it's business deals.

GH Bush did deals with Saddam and co, while GW Bush is associated with the Bin Laden family. Prescott Bush was doing business with the Nazis during WWII, and got caught afterwards. Don't tell me, this family isn't known for it's business deals.

Wow, it's another conspiracy theorist. They are so prevalent here. While, for the sake of my thread, I'm not going to argue with you here, because that's not what this thread is about - I would ask you to look me up in a hundred other threads where I've argued this.

nobody here says that the Bush family have a conspiracy to rule the world, simply they tend to give more importance to the money they earn than to the people the deal with

God help America if Jeb Bush becomes president.
Due to the shady nature of George H Bush and George W Bush, he's not going to be any different.

You seem to think that's not a good thing? ;)

(Seriously: name me a single President that didn't have a shady side... especially a post-Civil War one.)

Whether there is a BUsh conspiracy or not...the fact of the matter is, this country will not elect THREE presidents from the same family. That might work in congressional districts, but not the presidency. Jeb is not THAT likable.

Whether there is a BUsh conspiracy or not...the fact of the matter is, this country will not elect THREE presidents from the same family. That might work in congressional districts, but not the presidency. Jeb is not THAT likable.

I sure hope you're right! :)

Whether there is a BUsh conspiracy or not...the fact of the matter is, this country will not elect THREE presidents from the same family. That might work in congressional districts, but not the presidency. Jeb is not THAT likable.

I don't know... they did elect the Roosevelts enough to have three presidents serve two terms each. :D

I would have voted John McCain but he is getting kind of old in age, so i voted Rice.

Giuliani is vulnerable because he lacks Federal experience. He might get the White House sometime, but he'd need to go through either a Governorship, or a prominent Cabinet post (maybe Attorney-General, considering how he cleaned up New York). He also might be too liberal to get past the primaries.

John McCain has two problems, first, he's a Senator, and they rarely get elected, and secondly, he's a RINO (Republican In Name Only)

Jeb Bush, possibly, he's shown good leadership in a crisis (hurricanes), and has executive experience.

Cheney, too old, and in relatively poor health. There'd be serious concerns about his medical fitness to serve a full term.

I went for Rice.

1) I used to think the same thing but then I realized...New York has 8 million people in population....which is more than some states. He reduced crime there, using totally new methods, as well as reducing their defecit. He'd make a great president. He's hardly liberal....he's a moderate leaning conservative. He'd sure as hell get my vote.

2) Check his voting record. He's conservative all the way.

3) America won't elect another Bush to office. I'd vote for him, especially if running against Hilary.

4) He's already said he won't run.

[QUOTE=Haloman]2) Check his voting record. He's conservative all the way.
Actually he's in the top ten liberal conservatives by voting record.
4) He's already said he won't run.
He? Rice is a guy?

[QUOTE=Haloman]
Actually he's in the top ten liberal conservatives by voting record.

He? Rice is a guy?

I meant Cheney, not Rice.

But Rice said she won't run as well.

[QUOTE=Rogue Newbie]

I meant Cheney, not Rice.

But Rice said she won't run as well.

Ahhh... yeah, I know they both said they won't run. So did Hillary, I believe. We're pretending they do run, for the purposes of this thread.

Whether there is a BUsh conspiracy or not...the fact of the matter is, this country will not elect THREE presidents from the same family. That might work in congressional districts, but not the presidency. Jeb is not THAT likable.

I wouldn't be surprised if it *doesn't* happen. The DEMs have *got* to move away from the "East Coast Elite" stereotype that has plagued them since Kennedy. Note that Johnson, Carter & Clinton all came from Southern states.

Basically, they need to realize that we have enough gun control laws and need better law enforcement, and stop trying to court voters via entitlement programs (Clinton made some progress here). Those two things alone would have handed them the last two elections for sure.

[QUOTE=Haloman]

Ahhh... yeah, I know they both said they won't run. So did Hillary, I believe. We're pretending they do run, for the purposes of this thread.

Hillary, IIRC, said she'd like to run.

Besides, anyone would beat Hillary. America would never elect a woman with a penis.

[QUOTE=Haloman]
Actually he's in the top ten liberal conservatives by voting record.

No he's not.
According to the American Conservative Union McCain has a lifetime voting score of 83 - he choses the Conservative side 83% of the time. That would put Lincoln Chafee (RI), Arlen Specter (PA), Susan Collins (ME), Olympia Snowe (ME), Gordon Smith (OR), Pete Domenici (NM), Ben Campell (CO)*, Christopher Bond (MI)*, Richard Lugar (IN), Mike DeWine (OH), George Voinovich (OH), John Warner (VA), Richard Shelby (AL), Thad Cochran (MS), Ted Stevens (AK), Lisa Murkowski (AK), and Judd Gregg (NH) as more liberal in their careers. (Asterix means that that, after 2004, they're not longer serving.)

No he's not.
According to the American Conservative Union McCain has a lifetime voting score of 83 - he choses the Conservative side 83% of the time. That would put Lincoln Chafee (RI), Arlen Specter (PA), Susan Collins (ME), Olympia Snowe (ME), Gordon Smith (OR), Pete Domenici (NM), Ben Campell (CO)*, Christopher Bond (MI)*, Richard Lugar (IN), Mike DeWine (OH), George Voinovich (OH), John Warner (VA), Richard Shelby (AL), Thad Cochran (MS), Ted Stevens (AK), Lisa Murkowski (AK), and Judd Gregg (NH) as more liberal in their careers. (Asterix means that that, after 2004, they're not longer serving.)

Well, National Journal disagrees with the American Conservative Union, apparently. According to them, McCain is sixth or seventh most liberal conservative, economically, twelfth or thirteenth most liberal conservative socially, and second most liberal conservative on foreign policy. I'm not saying he's a commie, he's just pretty liberal as far as conservatives go. Besides, he's still well into the top half of most liberal conservatives by your stats.

[QUOTE=Rogue Newbie]

Hillary, IIRC, said she'd like to run.

Besides, anyone would beat Hillary. America would never elect a woman with a penis.

You, too, are ignoring "The Bill Factor." And, I have actually heard her say on interviews that she won't, but she could have changed her mind.