NationStates Jolt Archive

This thread is intended to cut the China vs USA argument out of the previous thread over what makes the US military so awesome.

LOL funny :D

I think however that you're forgetting the nuclear and economic sides. Were China to obtain complete military supremacy over their neighbors, there wouldn't be much we could do to contain them. They could simply threaten to dump US currency into the open market, as we did with the UK and France 50 years ago, and effectively extort anything from us. They could also threaten to land two dozen nukes on South Korea, Japan, or any of our other allies to obtain the same results.

The only reason China hasn't turned their backs on us yet is because they don't want to lose economic access to the richest nation in the world. Were they to find some other market for their goods, or were ours to become less attractive, there'd be no incentive for them to listen to us.

Of course I doubt China would go to war with Russia or India since they are also armed with nukes and have both said they'd use them in a defensive military conflict. Other nations would be fair game though.

Mind you; do you know anything on logistics? Please do some research on how to supply an army and the importance of morale, transportation, and communication management before you further embarrass yourself.

If China expands, that would result in its neighbors responding out of a defensive humanitarian need. One such example would be Russia and India fighting China back to its borders and making sure its military remains inept like that of Japan's today (DON'T ARGUE OVER JAPAN! We all know its military can't fight a major conflict because of its size restrictions. Just zip it.).

In case you want to read something, here is a British report on recent actions in Iraq:

http://www.dau.mil/pubs/dam/05_06_2005/dow_mj05.pdf#search='Defense%20AT%20%26%20L%3B%205%2F1%2F2005%3B%20Raper%2C%20Tony'

Enjoy!

who cares about the military. China has no reason to go into an armed conflict with the US. they will simply dominate it economically. if we ever attempted to attack them, justified or not, they would impose sanctions (stopping massive amounts of imports) and stop buying bonds. in fact, they would flood the market with the bonds they already have. the US would enter into a second Great Depression.

Heh I have to agree with the second poster, one only needs to be un-attackable. Notice the USA invading North Korea because it's a communist dictatorship with WMDs? Me neither. China will not deliberately provoke US armed response, with the result being that unless US takes the offensive China will simply act in it's best interest, develop it's economy and gradually overtake the Americans while we sit around drinking beer and congratulating ourselves for having a top-notch military. Not that there's anything wrong with top-notch militaries, or beer for that matter, but neither means China will *never* overtake the US.

in fact, they would flood the market with the bonds they already have. the US would enter into a second Great Depression.

Let's consider what would happen if China just dumped the U.S. treasuries that the U.S. government happily sold to them.

FLUNKY: Mister Greenspan! The Chinese have dumped their U.S. treasuries on the open market! What should we do sir!

GREENSPAN: Our jobs. Maintain employment while our economy switches resources to substituting for reduced imports. (mutters to self) Damn Bush tax cuts! I wish I'd actually fought for tax cuts only if the hypothetical surplus materializes instead of only just mentioning it once or twice.

Great depression? No. Recession and great inconvenience? Yes.

China would lose most of its biggest overseas market and would probably be in a worse mess than the U.S.

If the U.S. wants to be more secure, I recommend geting rid of the budget deficit, then, running surpluses and reducing the federal debt.

Once again, do your research before thinking that China can out industrialize the US. Yes we outsource plentily, yes IBM is relocating in China, yes Walmart is expanding into China. Do your research, read a newspaper or two. If you want to make accusations, please give examples and do your homework. It's not hard.

If you read the forum on why the US military is so great, you'll see on pg2 and a liitle of the end of pg 1 and a little of the top of pg 3 the address of the "economic" scenario. You can also read the Wall Street Journal if you want to get more financial insight. It's a buck a day and its an easy read for anyone with an IQ of 100. Any ordinary and average person can pick it up and understand what they're saying so don't bother with any excuses.

i dont have time to go digging through a glitchy jolt server. if you have a response please post one. don't just say, I'm right, you're wrong, read the Wall Street Journal.

Never is a long time...

I wouldn't say that, but it is highly unlikely for that sort of thing to happen while I'm maintaining my metabolic processes, if you catch my drift.

Well all non racist and for the will of the people should hope and think that China somethere in the future will get more powerfull then the USA. By the simple facts that way have more people. Because it is a simple democratic facts that the country that represent the most people will have more power internationall that the country with a mutch smaller power also that they economy will outgrowe that of the country with a smaller population and also that they will gain the extra power.

But that can of course be a very long process both because it can be tricky to growth you economy fast ecpecially sense some naturalreasource is scarce. And also that both the USA and the EU will try to work against the chinese expansion economical. And also we can just really hope that chinese get democratic before they get more powerfull then the EU and USA. Because as it is no question of China increasing power and that it will become a democracy the only question is then and that will come first.

And to get some perspective this book can be very intresting:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0742517543/ref=dp_nav_0/104-5690780-4747145?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

China can have 50 billion people, but they can still only mobilize less then half the forces America can in a conventional war, unless they want to swim across the Pacific. Of course, we can always nuke each other, making it a draw... :)

Well all non racist and for the will of the people should hope and think that China somethere in the future will get more powerfull then the USA. By the simple facts that way have more people. Because it is a simple democratic facts that the country that represent the most people will have more power internationall that the country with a mutch smaller power also that they economy will outgrowe that of the country with a smaller population and also that they will gain the extra power.


Why? They deserve power because they have a large population? Why should they be rewarded for that? India will outgrow China soon.. should they control the Earth then, simply due to their numbers?

Why? They deserve power because they have a large population? Why should they be rewarded for that? India will outgrow China soon.. should they control the Earth then, simply due to their numbers?

More along the lines of the more people you have, the bigger your army can be. The bigger your economy can be. The bigger your resource capacity can be. The bigger your logistical capacity can be. The bigger your capital supply can be.

More along the lines of the more people you have, the bigger your army can be. The bigger your economy can be. The bigger your resource capacity can be. The bigger your logistical capacity can be. The bigger your capital supply can be.

No kidding. He wasn't saying larger countries "can" have larger militaries.. he was saying they "should."

I think we're likely to see increasing co-operation between China and Europe. Sure, they're arguing over cotton imports and human rights, but in other areas they're increasing co-operation. ESA and various national space agencies in Europe are planning joint missions with CNSA, which NASA is forbidden from doing by US law (they're not even allowed to talk directly). NASA will be left behind by this work. Remember that it's not all about exploration - there's a lot of money to be made, especially if you share technology. Europe also sees economic opportunities in China. Though there'll never be military co-operation between the two, Europe would probably turn a blind eye to any Chinese belligerence. American antipathy towards China risks marginalising the US in the long term. People mention using US sanctions to keep China in check, but as the economies of India and Europe expand, the US will no longer be the major market for Chinese goods.